WOMEN: Are these "signals" that I'm missing?

[DirkGntly]

Ok, there is a woman at work (yeah, I know, at-work relationships and all that...blah, blah), whom I have been aware of for about 4 years (and she, me), but with whom I haven't had much contact. In fact, I worked remotely for the company for the last 5 years, and was only recently (in January) moved to the company HQ. In the last 4 years, I've bumped into her at headquarters maybe a half-dozen times, but there was always a polite nod or a, "how are you," that sort of thing. Now I have more interraction with her, to the tune of about 5 minutes, twice a week, and our cubes are in relatively close proximity, but not in any way to allow any sort of direct eye contact. We're situated in a way where we can sort of hear and be aware of each other's movements, and some conversations, but that's about all. Now, I should make it clear that she has been the one making the point of initiating these conversations each week, with few exceptions, but the conversations generally revolve around mundane stuff, like work. But here's what I'm seeing, and ladies, you tell me if these are "signals" or not:

1) In our conversations, since I'm usually sitting and she's usually standing (she's about 5'9" or 5'10"), I've caught myself looking at her chest. I immediately STOP, because I know it's rude, but I also KNOW she's caught me, more than once, and she has continued the conversation in the most pleasant of tones, never changing stride, and then comes back a few days later and strikes up another conversation. Wouldn't she avoid conversation if my furtive glances were offending her? (For the curious: yes, it's a VERY nice chest - rather large-ish, and attached to a very nice frame, with an attractive face and blonde hair...)

2) In 4 years, I have *never* received a "happy birthday" e-mail from her, even though our company posts birthdays on the corporate website, but this year, I did (my birthday is tomorrow, April 19th). Is this perhaps because she was actually paying attention this year for some reason?

3) If I get up to go to the kitchen to purchase a soda, or to just take a break, generally within a minute or two, she's there, too. This happens on 80% or better of my trips to the kitchen. Is she possibly making an effort to increase our level of contact?

So, ladies...any input? Any questions about her actions that I may not have indicated here? Please help!

[cher3]

The first two are iffy. Unless you were being really rude, I think a lot of women understand that accidental glances happen. And yes, the birthday thing could just be a coincidence.

The third, though, seems pretty clear.

[Cliffy]

I think cher right -- 1 & 2 don't tell me much but #3 seems like it's likely enough that you should go on and ask her out for drinks sometimes.

--Cliffy

[Stainz]

Another vote for #2 and #3 being significant, esp #3. She obviously has some interest in you and I would say she's waiting for you to make a move.

(As for work relationships, I had one that was a disaster, but my current one is an absolute dream. Proceed with caution and discretion is all I can say ...)

[ultrafilter]

Yeah, #3 is pretty clear. Even in the absence of that, what would be the harm in asking her to dinner after work sometime?

[Creaky]

Another vote for yes because of # 3.

If I liked a guy, I'd probably do the same thing. And sure, no big deal on the chest thing; I know that guys do that sometimes and it doesn't make them pervs, at least in my book. (This honestly never happens to me, though, as I've no chest to speak of; but my friends mention it!)

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

1) In our conversations, since I'm usually sitting and she's usually standing (she's about 5'9" or 5'10"), How does it happen that you're sitting and she's standing? Does she come to your cube and chitchat? Are you in the kitchen eating lunch at a table and then she walks in and starts talking to you?

If it's something similar to the above I'd say it's a very strong signal.

[DirkGntly]

How does it happen that you're sitting and she's standing? Does she come to your cube and chitchat? Are you in the kitchen eating lunch at a table and then she walks in and starts talking to you?

If it's something similar to the above I'd say it's a very strong signal.
Yes, she comes to my cubie to initiate the conversations.

[neuroman]

Batter up, Dirk!

[Audrey Levins]

#3, if consistent, is definitely a sign. As is the fact that she frequently comes to your cubicle to initiate conversation.

As for #1...from experience, as long as a guy isn't blatant about it, most women don't get offended by a few glances at their chests. I only become irritated when you start talking to my chest. Other than that, if I catch you glancing at it, I'm really not going to think much of it.

Ask her out!

[Rashak Mani]

Well are there OTHER reasons she might be talking more with you ?

Like your the only 2 accountants, lawyers or whatever in that area ? Are you considered an expert in your area and she is trying to learn a bit more ? Are you her "boss" and she is brown nosing you ?

Unless there is a clear reason for non-romantic conversation I think she might be interested. Eye contact ?

Just remember that "interested" for women means she wants to know you better or some bla bla bla... so don't jump on her like she is asking for sex... :D
I suggest you make some "Nice skirt" comments and observe her reactions.

Good Luck... I hate this kind of flirting but not flirting...

[DirkGntly]

Hmm...interesting replies, especially from the women! Thank you!

Are there other things I should be looking for? She hasn't touched my hand or anything like that, not even a brief brush...

[Abbie Carmichael]

With #1, it could be that she's a bit flattered. Especially since you're repentant when you catch yourself doing it.

I think #2 is more significant than what everyone else in the thread thinks. Yes, it could just be a politeness thing, but if she really disliked you, she wouldn't be sending you an email on your birthday. Women dig it when people remember their birthdays. Women give men they like what they would want in the same situation.

So I think #1 and #2 prove that you're in her "not icky" category.

#3, however, IS pretty significant. Back in my single days when I was interested in a guy I'd make sure to just "happen" to be where he was as much as possible (not that it did any good).

Now if she's married (I'm assuming she's not but just in case), all bets are off and it could be that she just thinks you're a nifty guy that's fun to talk to. Cute single guys are "safe" to flirt with at work if you're married.

Signs to watch for:

Preening. Does she play with her hair when she's talking to you? Fiddle with her watch, rings, or necklace?

Does she stand oh-so-casually against something, maybe resting her arm on the file cabinet so that her boobs and hips stick out?

Does she stand there and play with one of her shoes with her toes while you're talking?

The more she touches herself -- any kind of touching, even if she's just brushing lint off of her shirt -- the greater the chances she likes you.

[ultrafilter]

Are there other things I should be looking for?

A nearby restaurant--something inexpensive and suited to your level of attire--for the aforementioned dinner after work. Or drinks, if that's your thing.

In other words, stop with the overanalyzing and just ask her out already!

[Zoe]

Your birthday would be the perfect "excuse" to ask her out for drinks or coffee or dinner. Oh, happy day!

Abbie: The more she touches herself -- any kind of touching, even if she's just brushing lint off of her shirt -- the greater the chances she likes you.

And if she picks lint of of your shirt, hubba, hubba!

[Shakes]

(For the curious: yes, it's a VERY nice chest - rather large-ish, and attached to a very nice frame, with an attractive face and blonde hair...)

Phsst!

This is the only qualifier I would need to ask her out....


Oh, yeah that and a good personality.. giggle..snort...

[delphica]

#1 I'm going to write that off as she's well-mannered and assumes you are as well, so any glances at her chest are accidental.

#2 and #3 sound promising.

Another sign I would look for is if she mentions things that she likes that could be possible invitations for you to follow up. For example "I've heard great things about new restaurant X, I've been meaning to try it." = "Hey, me too! Maybe we could check it out sometime." Or let's see, upcoming movies that she's looking forward to, or musuems or art shows or stuff like that.

[Stark Raven Mad]

Indicators of Interest:

Pupil dilation. This is something you have to learn to look for. Easier to see in light-colored eyes.
The self-touchy thing only applies to some people. In body language, a set of coherent gestures is much more revealing than one.
Excessive laughing. Women who have been interested in me always laugh excessively at anything vaguely humorous you have to say, even if it's a joke more beat than horse jerky. Several "Oh my god, you are SOOO funny!!"s is a sure indicator of interest.

Don't ask her out. Ask her if she knows it's your birthday. Or if she wishes you a happy birthday first, just skip to the next bit and tell her she's celebrating with you at X restaurant at 8pm tonight, though you might be a little late (because you're a busy man, see, and you're making time that she might have the privilege to be with you on such a special day).

I hope you have a very nice birthday, sir.

[Declan]

2) In 4 years, I have *never* received a "happy birthday" e-mail from her, even though our company posts birthdays on the corporate website, but this year, I did (my birthday is tomorrow, April 19th). Is this perhaps because she was actually paying attention this year for some reason?


Don't as much ask her out , as mention that you and whomever you can snag from your work place are going out to celebrate , would she like to tag along.

Declan

[Siege]

I'd say she's interested. When I realized there was more to a certain fellow in Mensa than met the eye, I deliberately started going to things I wouldn't normally have gone to and haven't gone to since in the hope of seeing him. I also let him know what I'd be doing and mentioned he might find it interesting. Arranging things so that you know you and he will be in the same place at the same time is definitely a way of giving a guy a go-ahead signal.

Don't worry about her not touching you -- there's no way I'd casually touch a man I didn't know well, even if I was interested in him. In some social contexts, I might hug him hello and good-bye, but there's no way I'd do that at work. When I went to a New Year's Eve party that Mensan I mentioned as at, he and I spent several hours talking to each other, at the end of which I knew I was interested in him and it was mutual, yet the only physical contact we had with each other was a hug at midnight and at the end of the evening. No, we didn't kiss. At least not then.

My advice is to mention something you'll be doing, preferably something she's expressed an interest in, and ask her if she'd be interested in joining you. There was a period of several months when I wasn't sure if I wanted to date the fellow I mentioned (I wasn't interested in dating or getting involved with anyone at the time), but I knew I was interested in getting to know him better. He didn't do that, but, if he had, I would have said "Yes." Today's a perfect excuse. Tell her you're doing something special for your birthday, today or at the weekend, and see if she wants to join you.

I'd say the signals are nice and clear. Go for it, have fun, and happy birthday! Oh, and that Mensan I mentioned? He and I've been dating for over a year now and we're crazy about each other.

CJ

[DirkGntly]

Now if she's married (I'm assuming she's not but just in case), all bets are off and it could be that she just thinks you're a nifty guy that's fun to talk to. Cute single guys are "safe" to flirt with at work if you're married.

Signs to watch for:

Preening. Does she play with her hair when she's talking to you? Fiddle with her watch, rings, or necklace?

Does she stand oh-so-casually against something, maybe resting her arm on the file cabinet so that her boobs and hips stick out?

Does she stand there and play with one of her shoes with her toes while you're talking?

The more she touches herself -- any kind of touching, even if she's just brushing lint off of her shirt -- the greater the chances she likes you.

I'll have to pay attention to those signs. I hadn't considered how her being married or not might change the equation. She is, indeed, married, so I may actually just be a nice distraction at work. Interesting. So, the question now is, would the physical signs that Abbie listed mean more, or less, with her being married?

[BadBadger]

By the way, happy birthday!

[DirkGntly]

By the way, happy birthday!
Oh, and by the way - thanks to everyone who has wished me a happy birthday in this thread!

[Abbie Carmichael]

I'll have to pay attention to those signs. I hadn't considered how her being married or not might change the equation. She is, indeed, married, so I may actually just be a nice distraction at work. Interesting. So, the question now is, would the physical signs that Abbie listed mean more, or less, with her being married?

Less, most likely.

Given she's married:

#1 - she's flattered

#2 - she's just being friendly, and the reason she didn't do the birthday thing the past 4 years is because you weren't working together as much as you are now

#3 - iffy. Could be she's just bored and you're fun to talk to, so she intentionally does come in when you're there because she wants a 5-minute mental vacation from work. Could be she wants to jump your bones.

At any rate, the fact that she's married AND a coworker could only lead to trouble for you should anything happen. There's nothing wrong with a little harmless flirting, but it may be up to you to (nonverbally) set the tone that flirting is all it is.

[DirkGntly]

Less, most likely.

Given she's married:

#1 - she's flattered

#2 - she's just being friendly, and the reason she didn't do the birthday thing the past 4 years is because you weren't working together as much as you are now

#3 - iffy. Could be she's just bored and you're fun to talk to, so she intentionally does come in when you're there because she wants a 5-minute mental vacation from work. Could be she wants to jump your bones.

At any rate, the fact that she's married AND a coworker could only lead to trouble for you should anything happen. There's nothing wrong with a little harmless flirting, but it may be up to you to (nonverbally) set the tone that flirting is all it is.
Abbie, thanks, this is good info. I probably should've made it clear at the beginning of the thread that I'm not planning on starting a relationship with this woman; I merely wanted to find out if what I was seeing might actually mean anything or not. I guess I wanted to determine if I should be feeling flattered or just indifferent. (Besides, who couldn't use a little ego-boost, now and then, if the interest is genuine?)

Any other opinions out there?

[Jaade]

Don't ask her out. Ask her if she knows it's your birthday. Or if she wishes you a happy birthday first, just skip to the next bit and tell her she's celebrating with you at X restaurant at 8pm tonight, though you might be a little late (because you're a busy man, see, and you're making time that she might have the privilege to be with you on such a special day).



I guess this is all a moot point now as we've discovered the lady in question is married but I have to say that this would be the exact way *not* to approach the situation in my opinion.

Tell her she's going to dinner with you? :confused:

[butler1850]

Couple of warning flags went right up for me!

1) Married women should not be dated (except by the husband of said woman)
2) Work relationships can be dangerous, proceed with caution. (Use EXTRA caution since she's a married woman)

good luck either way though!

[DirkGntly]

Couple of warning flags went right up for me!

1) Married women should not be dated (except by the husband of said woman)
2) Work relationships can be dangerous, proceed with caution. (Use EXTRA caution since she's a married woman)

good luck either way though!
butler, you must've missed my last post where I said:I probably should've made it clear at the beginning of the thread that I'm not planning on starting a relationship with this woman; I merely wanted to find out if what I was seeing might actually mean anything or not. I guess I wanted to determine if I should be feeling flattered or just indifferent.

[FilmGeek]

[QUOTE=Stark Raven Mad]Don't ask her out. Ask her if she knows it's your birthday. Or if she wishes you a happy birthday first, just skip to the next bit and tell her she's celebrating with you at X restaurant at 8pm tonight, though you might be a little late (because you're a busy man, see, and you're making time that she might have the privilege to be with you on such a special day).[QUOTE]

Wow, that's just about the worst way I could think to be asked out. I would think "what a pig" and never flirt with you again. Please tell me you're kidding.

Declan, however, has my take on it perfectly.

However, since you're not asking her out, just take these ideas and apply them to the next non-married pretty girl to flirt with you.

[butler1850]

butler, you must've missed my last post where I said:


DOH! Sorry about that. Still good advice for anyone else though.

[elfkin477]

Preening. Does she play with her hair when she's talking to you? Fiddle with her watch, rings, or necklace?

I'm not sure this is much of a sign. Some people just fidget, constantly. I know I do, I play with my name-badge (which I wear on a cord at my waist), necklaces, pencils, paper clips etc all the time. If I had to sit still for eight hours without something to manipulate with my fingers to burn off a little excess energy, I'd probably lose my mind.

Of the things listed in the OP I think #2 is the most telling. #1 you expect that to happen now and then, and it's easier to pretend it doesn't than be confrontational over such a little thing. #3 depends on what you talk about. Do you gossip or gripe? If so, you might be someone interesting to talk to. Where I work the supervisors often visit each other to do both, and it has nothing to do with interest in anything but someone to share frustration or something amusing with. If you don't talk about things that fall into either catogory, then yeah, that could be a sign too.