Dry Counties? Wait, what century is this?

[capybara]

[mild and mostly confused-- educate the west coast kid]

So I've been looking into a temporary (1 year) relocation to a certain county in a certain state in that area that's not quite midwest and not quite deep south. One known for its chicken, horseracing, and bourbon. Bourbon! And yet confusingly, I've just learned that most counties in this state are 'dry' (including my would-be county, which is apparently considered 'moist' since liquor is legal in one town). This whole thing is a concept I just had to do a little research on, being so far out of my experience.

Now, being used to living places like Portland and Seattle, where beer is simply a neutral part of life and has no taint of sin (and spending much of my time abroad in places like Amsterdam, where prohibition of anything is not something that crosses one's mind), I find this flabbergasting. I mean, how absolutely insane. I am to go to a nice Italian restaurant and drink 'pop' or 'cocola' or whatever nutty term is used locally? What am I? Nine? Did I accidentally miss my Louisville connection and now I'm in Riyadh? I mean, wow.

Now, am I to understand that not only can I not *buy* alcohol, but I'm not even supposed to *possess* it in these counties? Like, I'm not to buy a half-rack in big city X and stick it in my car trunk for consumption in small town Y? Are these laws enforced, or does local law enforcement see it as like one of those 18th-century holdover laws like "No one may walk a duck on a leash on Broadway" or "Women are not permitted to wear trousers"? Should I brew my own, or set up a hooch still just for kicks?

Perhaps it will just take me a couple of days to wrap my head around this one. I mean. . . [head asplodes]

[Reeder]

The county I live in is dry. But you can buy beer and liquor inside the city limits of the two largest towns in the county.


Liquor laws can be bizarre.

[Reeder]

As far as I know you can possess in dry counties..you just can't buy.

[DoctorJ]

I grew up in a dry county in Eastern Kentucky. I'm moving back to the state this summer, but to a wet county.

Most of the counties that are dry are very rural, and just don't have the sort of restaurants where you might order a glass of wine. Where they do exist, they just don't have it. That's why a "night out" almost always involves a trip to another town. I don't know what the story is in Berea; I know there are some decent restaurants there, but I've never eaten at any of them.

My understanding is that possession of alcohol for personal consumption is explicitly legal, but it is technically illegal to transport the booze through a dry county. That said, I am absolutely confident that if I filled my trunk up at Liquor Barn in Lexington and drove it to my parents' house in Beattyville, and I got pulled over for something and told the cop that my trunk was chock full of liquor, he wouldn't bat an eyelash. It just isn't an issue.

It's just a part of life out in the country.

[capybara]

Dr J-- thanks for that information. It is comforting.

[tdn]

While I realize that rural Tennessee is about as culturally far away from Martha's Vineyard as you're likely to get, I'm betting the laws are pretty much the same. In the dry counties, if you dare to bring liquor into a restaurant, they will have the audacity to charge you a small uncorking fee as they bring you your wine glasses.

What this means in practical terms is that if you want to drink, you gotta go on a packy run. PITA, but not a show-stopper.

[jayjay]

Of course, when you bring up the fact that because most folks living in dry counties have to drive at least 1/2 hour to get to a wet county to "go out", that means they're probably going to drive back while at least slightly intoxicated, making it a very dangerous policy. Of course, as most of the people who support this for non-commercial reasons are the same type of people who are fighting to keep HPV vaccines off the market so people won't be more likely to have sex (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312424&highlight=cervical), that's not really a concern.

[Reeder]

Of course, when you bring up the fact that because most folks living in dry counties have to drive at least 1/2 hour to get to a wet county to "go out", that means they're probably going to drive back while at least slightly intoxicated, making it a very dangerous policy. Of course, as most of the people who support this for non-commercial reasons are the same type of people who are fighting to keep HPV vaccines off the market so people won't be more likely to have sex (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=312424&highlight=cervical), that's not really a concern.


I hate to point this out...but if you "go out" and drink in a wet county..you still have to drive home under the influence.

[jayjay]

I hate to point this out...but if you "go out" and drink in a wet county..you still have to drive home under the influence.

True. But the thing is that if you LIVE in a wet county, you probably don't have as far to drive. Not that that would excuse deciding to drive drunk, but it's definitely a safety concern.

[danceswithcats]

As opposed to drinking in one's own wet county and driving home? :confused:

[danceswithcats]

jayjay said it first. Damned hampsters.

[brianjedi]

capybara, Kentucky's really weird about stuff like that. Hell, my (sort-of) hometown almost tore itself to pieces fighting over going "moist" a couple of years ago.

Which end of the state are you moving to?

[DoctorJ]

Of course, when you bring up the fact that because most folks living in dry counties have to drive at least 1/2 hour to get to a wet county to "go out", that means they're probably going to drive back while at least slightly intoxicated, making it a very dangerous policy.
This very argument comes up every time a county or town comes up for a "wet/dry" vote.

The most effective counter-argument is that when a county does go wet, the liquor stores that open up are generally squalidly glorified trailers with about 100 plastic beer signs and one of those big flashing yellow arrow things out front. The nearest package store to my hometown, in the neighboring and fairly recently wet Wolfe County, is just such a trailer, right across the street from a fairly evangelical church. If more places would put some conditions on their liquor stores to keep them from becoming such eyesores, they'd probably get the votes they need more often.

All this aside, the area where I grew up still has a very Puritanical attitude about alcohol, to the point of considering any and all drinking to be immoral. That doesn't mean that most of them don't booze it up regularly, though. It's just like the old joke about the best thing about Baptist heaven--you can talk to each other in the liquor store.

[BoBettie]

This very argument comes up every time a county or town comes up for a "wet/dry" vote.

The most effective counter-argument is that when a county does go wet, the liquor stores that open up are generally squalidly glorified trailers with about 100 plastic beer signs and one of those big flashing yellow arrow things out front. The nearest package store to my hometown, in the neighboring and fairly recently wet Wolfe County, is just such a trailer, right across the street from a fairly evangelical church. If more places would put some conditions on their liquor stores to keep them from becoming such eyesores, they'd probably get the votes they need more often.


We must have good zoning laws here- my county (Lincoln county, NC) just stopped being dry maybe 3 years ago or so, and I've never seen that at all. All of our liquor stores are ABC stores run by the state, and most wine and beer is just sold in the grocery or convenience stores.

[Kimchan]

Since you started the thread about Berea, I'm guessing that's the location you're referring to? Because while that town is dry, there's a city very close to it that's absolutely full of alcohol. Locally, that's pretty much what it's known for (party college town). :p I don't really understand why anyplace bothers to stay dry when it's so incredibly easy to get alcohol anyway.

[capybara]

MMmmmmmaybe.
The thing is, we're accustomed to "going out" to a pub, as in walking two blocks to it on a nice day, not driving 30 miles to a strip club or something and careening home. Or, you know, buying a damn six-pack and watching a DVD, so the driving drunk in a wet county doesn't really apply. I'm just lamenting the lack of ability to walk downtown to the pleasant nice brewpub with the Clash on the jukebox and the dartboards and chess set and Gardenburger. A life with no local pub is no life at all!

Doctor J-- I like that joke. Yeah, I get the idea that there's a moral valence connected to drinking in the southeast, and I'm just used to it being neutral, where the big concern at dinner is, "Is it warm enough for white? Wait, this is beef! Oh, who cares. Open the Riesling, anyway."

[Kimchan]

Ah, well, that could be a problem. I got curious and looked, the closest liquor store I know of is about 9 miles away.

[user_hostile]

Okay, I’ll take the other side on this. Some of us (who drink on regular basis) think that living in a dry county has advantages. For one thing, it slows development way down. Resorts don’t stand a chance of prospering without booze. Having lived in Johnson County, TN for about three years and meeting others “replants” (my own term; highly educated, well off people who like rural, remote areas), there was a common agreement that if the county went “wet”, it would be a negative impact for us. The concern was a loss of community, increased cost of living, crime, and congestion. We only had to look south at Boone, NC to see the results of going wet. Sure, it met we had to drive long distances for booze, but the trade-off was worth it. See if you can leave your door unlocked year round. You can’t do it in Boone.

[DoctorJ]

The thing is, we're accustomed to "going out" to a pub, as in walking two blocks to it on a nice day, not driving 30 miles to a strip club or something and careening home. Or, you know, buying a damn six-pack and watching a DVD, so the driving drunk in a wet county doesn't really apply. I'm just lamenting the lack of ability to walk downtown to the pleasant nice brewpub with the Clash on the jukebox and the dartboards and chess set and Gardenburger. A life with no local pub is no life at all!
If that's the case, it's pretty safe to say that maybe Berea isn't for you. In fact, I'd venture to say that 90% of the country isn't for you. Believe me, I'd kill to live within a couple of blocks of a place like that, but in Berea you're probably not within a two-hour drive of such a place. The "local pub" is just not a concept that one frequently finds in the South, unfortunately.

[DoctorJ]

We must have good zoning laws here- my county (Lincoln county, NC) just stopped being dry maybe 3 years ago or so, and I've never seen that at all. All of our liquor stores are ABC stores run by the state, and most wine and beer is just sold in the grocery or convenience stores.
That's the key. Kentucky's laws are different; the state does not run the liquor stores like they do the ABC stores here in NC. Some places allow beer to be sold in grocery/convenience stores; others don't. Wine and liquor have to be sold at a liquor store, which are privately owned and have to make most of their money selling booze.

So in KY, in a wet county, any Joe Bob who gets a license can set up a Beer Trailer. I don't know why they don't put some conditions on the liquor license; I'm sure they do in some places, but in most they clearly don't.

[NicePete]

What county are we talking about? You could be surrounded by wet counties so it won't matter. And if the county is moist, that means that (usually) the largest town in the county is wet and the outlying areas are dry. I spent about 18 months in a county that was dry (then) and it wasn't much of an inconvenience. Although I'm more of a home drinker.

[Zoe]

Jack Daniels whiskey is distilled in Lynchburg, Tennessee which is located in a dry county.

tdn: While I realize that rural Tennessee is about as culturally far away from Martha's Vineyard as you're likely to get...

I'm really sorry to hear that. I had no idea that the New England coastal area had fallen on hard times.

Did you by any chance see Charlie Rose last night? Looks like one of our rural West Tennesse girls may be up for her third Tony nomination. [/hijack]

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

For one thing, it slows development way down. Resorts don’t stand a chance of prospering without booze.Wouldn't that goal also be solved by laws that allowed liquor stores only? Then the residents wouldn't be put out.

[NicePete]

Also, assuming that your "Location" listing is accurate, counties are much smaller in Kentucky. Kentucky has 120 counties, second only to Texas. Based on quick and dirty look at the almanac they average around 200 square miles. They were set up so that nobody was more than 10 miles or so from the county seat. Idaho's counties seem to run around 1500 square miles. So, if you're in a moist county it's not like you're going to be more than 10 minutes or so from the wet town.

[Hunter Hawk]

In the dry counties, if you dare to bring liquor into a restaurant, they will have the audacity to charge you a small uncorking fee as they bring you your wine glasses.
It's not really an issue of dry counties per se; charging a corkage fee (http://foodandwine.netscape.com/articles/invoke.cfm?label=corkage%2Dfor%2Ddummies) is a pretty standard practice.

[jackelope]

Even large cities in the South often have at least some screwy vestige of the old laws. In Memphis, beer can be sold pretty much anywhere--convenience stores, etc.--but wine and liquor are sold only in specially designated "liquor stores," and those stores can sell ONLY wine and liquor. Nothing else; no beer, no mixers, no food, cups, ice, nothing. And they have to close on Sunday. When I moved here (ten years ago) from Athens, Georgia, I was glad to be in a place where you could at least get BEER on Sundays.

Also, Memphis apparently has a different and more expensive license required for bars to serve liquor, while a beer license is easier or cheaper or some such. I know of several bars offhand that sell only beer, though they'll let you bring your own harder stuff as long as you buy a "set-up" of a glass and some ice, which is usually a dollar or two.

I know of a couple other weird local exceptions as well, but this post has gone on long enough.

Curious folk, them Baptists.

[Kilvert's Pagan]

Hey - just dropping by from the Berea thread... To the south and east of Madison County is dry for the most part. To the west is, too - Garrard is completely dry, and the next one west of there, Boyle, just passed liquor by the drink (only in restaurants) about two years ago. North of Madison is Fayette (Lexington) which is large and wet.

Short answer - if a state which specializes in bourbon, gambling, and tobacco, yet has lots of dry counties and is overrun by fundamentalists , seems somewhat schizophrenic, you now understand Kentucky.

Me, I'm going to Keeneland (http://www.keeneland.com) tomorrow to gamble on horses and eat burgoo. I love heading to the track on a Sunday morning - it's my own special "Fuck You" to the fundamentalist churches I pass on the way.

[DoctorJ]

Here's a wet-dry map of Kentucky. (http://www.hultgren.org/library/misc/wet-dry.htm) (It's from '97--I don't know how much has changed. Probably not much.)
Berea is in Madison County. I grew up in Lee County, just a couple to the right.

Note that Christian County is wet. Note also that, contrary to the old joke, Bourbon County is also wet. (I think this happened in the last ten years, though.)

I never realized that there was such an impressive swatch of dry counties around Lake Cumberland (the southern central part of the state). Most of the southern border counties can probably go into Tennessee. Folks in Laurel and Pulaski counties (London and Somerset, respectively) are basically screwed; they can't be less than an hour from legal booze.

[todd33rpm]

MMmmmmmaybe.
The thing is, we're accustomed to "going out" to a pub, as in walking two blocks to it on a nice day, not driving 30 miles to a strip club or something and careening home. Or, you know, buying a damn six-pack and watching a DVD, so the driving drunk in a wet county doesn't really apply. I'm just lamenting the lack of ability to walk downtown to the pleasant nice brewpub with the Clash on the jukebox and the dartboards and chess set and Gardenburger. A life with no local pub is no life at all!

Oh, by the way, if you're moving to a dry county out thisaway anyway...I've got some bad news about the chances of finding a Gardenburger.

Or the Clash.

Oh, but a lot of people still have lawn darts, so it all evens out.

:)

[DoctorJ]

Me, I'm going to Keeneland tomorrow to gamble on horses and eat burgoo. I love heading to the track on a Sunday morning - it's my own special "Fuck You" to the fundamentalist churches I pass on the way.
Sigh...at least it's the last Spring Meet that I'll be out of the state for.

[CrazyCatLady]

We must have good zoning laws here- my county (Lincoln county, NC) just stopped being dry maybe 3 years ago or so, and I've never seen that at all. All of our liquor stores are ABC stores run by the state, and most wine and beer is just sold in the grocery or convenience stores.

See, and that state-owned crap is why I can't go out and buy a bottle of tequila now, at 9pm on a Saturday. Friggin' ABC stores are closed. That was incredibly hard to get used to when we moved down here, because back in Kentucky when I got a booze craving at midnight, I could trot across the street and get whatever I wanted. (For some reason, I only ever get the urge to drink late in the evening, usually right after the stupid ABC stores close.) It still seems incredibly stupid to me, not being able to buy booze on a Saturday night, although people who grew up here don't seem to think twice about it. It's just what seems normal to them, because it's what they're used to.

[Kilvert's Pagan]

Sigh...at least it's the last Spring Meet that I'll be out of the state for.Come back soon - we need more Dopers here. If it makes you feel any better, it may snow tonight. But it's like the old fishing adage - a bad day at Keeneland is better than a good day at (fill in the blank here).

[DoctorJ]

Just looked up a new map; it seems that the city of Corbin (between Knox and Whitley Counties) has now gone wet, making it a bit easier on that area. Still hard to get a drink in Kentucky within an hour of Lake Cumberland, though.

Oh, by the way, if you're moving to a dry county out thisaway anyway...I've got some bad news about the chances of finding a Gardenburger.
I don't know; the Uber Wal-Mart has done a lot for bringing better groceries to the buttcrack of nowhere. (I'm willing to give credit where it's due.) Finding one on a menu, though? No. (Maybe in Berea--they do have hippies to feed up there.)

Come back soon - we need more Dopers here. If it makes you feel any better, it may snow tonight. But it's like the old fishing adage - a bad day at Keeneland is better than a good day at (fill in the blank here).
No kidding. Give me a state with fucked-up liquor laws and eight weeks a year of Keeneland anyday.

[Mr. Moto]

Hell, I had to move south to get away from the screwy liquor laws of Pennsylvania.

Anyone who's ever lived there knows what I'm talking about.

[racinchikki]

It's a twenty-minute drive to the liquor store from here. Because of this, when we run out of booze, we made a gigantic run and buy the gallons of liquor, so we don't have to go as often. We end up looking like gigantic alcoholics and the cashier assumes we're throwing a giant party. Incidentally by doing this we are technically breaking the law. " Possession of more than one quart of liquor or more than the equivalent of 24 12-oz containers of beer is prima facia evidence of possession with intent to sell in a dry area." cite (http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/faq/index.php)

To whoever said that living in a dry county keeps the cost of living down: not in Texas, where dry is apparently the rule rather than the exception. Around here, the only thing living in a dry county will guarantee you is an inability to go out and get a drink.

[Cherry2000]

I gotta say that I am still completely shocked whenever I run into a dry county when traveling...

I hit a suburb of Dallas at almost midnight one time, and let's just say I was in dire need of a beer or two. Went to buy a six, and was told they couldn't sell it where I was, but if I went up the street about two blocks I was A-Ok. Walked into a convenience store, plunked my six on the counter, and was told I was about 1 and a half minutes too late. :smack:

Enterprising young lass that I was, I went to a bowling alley across the street and ordered two beers. Took them to the ladies room, poured them into a water bottle I had with me, and smuggled them out in my purse. (yeah, yeah...I'm goin' to hell).

So now I live in CO where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a liquor store. :D

[mike1dog]

The county I live in is dry. You can buy all the alcohol you want in the largest town, but believe it or not, you can't buy your beer cold from a store. You can buy all the cold beer you want from a bar, but if you buy it in a convenience store it's hot. Also, at one time, sales of beer were forbidden entirely, but you could buy hard liquor or wine if you wanted. You can't buy any alcohol on Sunday. The only place you can buy liquor or wine is in a "package" store. In this state, the only place the liquor stores can buy liquor from is from the state. That's right, the state has a monopoly on liquor wholesaleing in this state.
In a related note, I remember reading that in the thirties, when the whole state was "dry" by state law, the highest paid public official in the nation was the Mississippi state tax commissioner. The reason for it was that the state collected taxes off of illegal booze, and the tax commissioner was paid a percentage of those collected taxes.
A friend of mine went through a sheriffs road block around here. He had a bucket in the back of his pickup with a couple of cans of beer in it. Instead of arresting him, the deputies made him pour the beer out on the side of the road.

[NicePete]

Here's a wet-dry map of Kentucky. (http://www.hultgren.org/library/misc/wet-dry.htm) (It's from '97--I don't know how much has changed. Probably not much.).

I'm pretty sure Oldham county is at least split now. There's been mucho growth that direction and I'm almost positive you can buy booze in LaGrange.

Hardin County is now wet (or at least moist -- E-Town and Radcliff are both wet).

Is the OP'er moving to Berea? Is this thread actually all about whether or not alcohol is available within 10 miles of Richmond????

[racinchikki]

The county I live in is dry. You can buy all the alcohol you want in the largest town, but believe it or not, you can't buy your beer cold from a store. You can buy all the cold beer you want from a bar, but if you buy it in a convenience store it's hot.
Mississippi? Starkville? Every time my sister came to visit me while I was in MSU she'd complain and complain and complain about the warm gas station beer.

[mike1dog]

Mississippi? Starkville? Every time my sister came to visit me while I was in MSU she'd complain and complain and complain about the warm gas station beer.

Yes.

[capybara]

Ok, ok, so now I know that Richmond is the iniquity capital of central Kentucky. Hooray.
But still. Dry counties. The concept. This still stands. Really.

[brianjedi]

I'm pretty sure Oldham county is at least split now. There's been mucho growth that direction and I'm almost positive you can buy booze in LaGrange.

Hardin County is now wet (or at least moist -- E-Town and Radcliff are both wet).

Is the OP'er moving to Berea? Is this thread actually all about whether or not alcohol is available within 10 miles of Richmond????

Yeah, that map's out of date, since Graves and Calloway counties are split now (Murray and Mayfield both allow by-the-drink, but not package.)

And forget Richmond, it's not THAT far to Lexington. Ah, the wonder that is Liquor Barn. It's amazing, the variety of beer that can be purchased in Lexington.

[user_hostile]

Wouldn't that goal also be solved by laws that allowed liquor stores only? Then the residents wouldn't be put out.

There are three beer outlets in Johnson County. One store is just short of the Carter County line (Ever pay $8.00 for six pack of Coors?). Another one is located in or just outside Mountain City and apparently was grandfathered in when wet-era came in to being. The location of the other store escapes me. (I think Mountain City is actually a dry, whereas the county may wet. But as you will see, that doesn’t make a lot difference

As to liquor stores? They would be under the guise of state’s ABC anyway. But I can assure you greed is alive and thriving in Johnson County. If they could bring it in they would do so at a heart beat--one county family is so powerful it stopped the straightening and lane expansion of a federal route (421), which would cut the drive time to Bristol, TN/VA from an hour to 30 minutes. In the meanwhile, they’ve been trying to buy up as much property by the current highway as possible they inform the congressional representative that it's now okay to build.

What's stopping them and a few other Snidely Whiplashes? See the following statistics: Johnson County (last I remember) has something like 115 churches for 15, 000 people. Conservative, (mostly Baptist) churches with 115 different opinions when it comes to everything else except for the sale of alcohol. And the county board of commissioners has 16 people which makes it very difficult to get a majority vote on controversial items (down from 24 a few years back!-- even TN's less then gifted legislature realized that votes tended to be more along family lines then party lines). Overall people in J.C. are in favor of growth as long as it doesn't impact there lives all that much :rolleyes: (except for jobs--unemployment is pretty high in J.C.) They like the area because it's not Boone; it's still pretty and nice place to live in.

To show you how sensitive J.C. is to outsiders coming in and changing things. TVA once suggested installing some enviro-friendly windmills along with an electrical storage facility. Sounds great doesn’t it? The Snidely Whiplashes sang praises about why it was good for the county, but as was expected, they had rigged the deal to maximize their benefit for themselves with literally nothing leftover for the county (say property taxes). It wasn’t really welcomed at all by most residents, but the battle as I recall was 50-50 with respect to it going through. Fortunately, NC played its hand by claiming that the windmills (located on a mountain ridge) were a source of visual pollution. Now mind you, the wind mills stood only 50--100 yards from the NC state line, so they SOL in terms of jurisdiction. On the other hand, they a “ridge” law to limit visual pollution after some ugly condo went up near Grandfather Mountain, NC, and rumor had it that they would go to the Supreme Court to kill this deal. TVA saw that this was a dead end and chose the alternative site further west so as to avoid presenting those pesky oral arguments.

It hasn’t stopped--in the last few months another person who want’s to bring a business to J.C. want's to open a feed lot for cattle. Of course, he didn’t mention early on that, his previous feedlot had polluted aquifers in NC and decided to declare bankruptcy to avoid the cost of clean up. Because TN’s laws are more lax, he figured he could avoid "govment inteference." Fortunately, the Sierra Club is on him like a rabid dog and more than a few residents have made it known that there’s going to be hell to pay politically if this deal goes through.

So it’s not just a matter of booze iamthewalrus(:3=., they like things the way they are. When an outsider tells them that it’s wrong or they're behind the times, they, the original residents find it hypocritical. After all, they know well enough that shoving their opinion's down someone's throat would come across as being being closed minded (not to mentioned rude). So it's also a question of who's more open minded?

[mlerose]

So now I live in CO where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a liquor store. :D

Right, but you can only buy alcohol at liquor stores (except 3.2 beer&etc. at grocery stores), with the added issue of not being able to buy alcohol at all on Sundays. Moving here from California was a bit of a shock. Where I grew up, you could buy anything (beer/wine/liquor) at a grocery store, a 7-11 or other convenience store, and any day of the week/any time of the day.

[Kalhoun]

[mild and mostly confused-- educate the west coast kid]

So I've been looking into a temporary (1 year) relocation to a certain county in a certain state in that area that's not quite midwest and not quite deep south. One known for its chicken, horseracing, and bourbon. Bourbon! And yet confusingly, I've just learned that most counties in this state are 'dry' (including my would-be county, which is apparently considered 'moist' since liquor is legal in one town). This whole thing is a concept I just had to do a little research on, being so far out of my experience.

Now, being used to living places like Portland and Seattle, where beer is simply a neutral part of life and has no taint of sin (and spending much of my time abroad in places like Amsterdam, where prohibition of anything is not something that crosses one's mind), I find this flabbergasting. I mean, how absolutely insane. I am to go to a nice Italian restaurant and drink 'pop' or 'cocola' or whatever nutty term is used locally? What am I? Nine? Did I accidentally miss my Louisville connection and now I'm in Riyadh? I mean, wow.

Now, am I to understand that not only can I not *buy* alcohol, but I'm not even supposed to *possess* it in these counties? Like, I'm not to buy a half-rack in big city X and stick it in my car trunk for consumption in small town Y? Are these laws enforced, or does local law enforcement see it as like one of those 18th-century holdover laws like "No one may walk a duck on a leash on Broadway" or "Women are not permitted to wear trousers"? Should I brew my own, or set up a hooch still just for kicks?

Perhaps it will just take me a couple of days to wrap my head around this one. I mean. . . [head asplodes]
Every dry town or county I've ever been in says you can possess it but not purchase it in those areas. It's freeking ridiculous. There's always the bootlegger. They do a booming business in these areas.

[Duke of Rat]

MMmmmmmaybe.
The thing is, we're accustomed to "going out" to a pub, as in walking two blocks to it on a nice day, not driving 30 miles to a strip club or something and careening home. Or, you know, buying a damn six-pack and watching a DVD, so the driving drunk in a wet county doesn't really apply. I'm just lamenting the lack of ability to walk downtown to the pleasant nice brewpub with the Clash on the jukebox and the dartboards and chess set and Gardenburger. A life with no local pub is no life at all!



I have a buddy in Louisville and from what he's told me, he does have a friendly neighborhood pub, drinking is a big part of his social life. He grabbed a half gallon of Jim Beam and a case of beer to take on the river this weekend for some big pre-Derby bash (but the weather was crappy) and ended up going to a bar instead to watch the festivities on a big screen.

[Mtgman]

It's a twenty-minute drive to the liquor store from here. Because of this, when we run out of booze, we made a gigantic run and buy the gallons of liquor, so we don't have to go as often. We end up looking like gigantic alcoholics and the cashier assumes we're throwing a giant party. Incidentally by doing this we are technically breaking the law. " Possession of more than one quart of liquor or more than the equivalent of 24 12-oz containers of beer is prima facia evidence of possession with intent to sell in a dry area." cite (http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/faq/index.php)

To whoever said that living in a dry county keeps the cost of living down: not in Texas, where dry is apparently the rule rather than the exception. Around here, the only thing living in a dry county will guarantee you is an inability to go out and get a drink.
Ah Greenville. Moxmaiden and I lived in Commerce when we were going to school and I remember those liquor stores well. They set a bunch up along the highway in the middle of nowhere, just outside the Greenville limits. Going into Greenville you would find long lines of cars looking to turn off the highway into the liquor stores, especially on payday.

Commerce, being a town with a permanent population of about 9K and a student population of about 9K always managed enough votes to stay "wet". I wonder how...

Enjoy,
Steven

[tdn]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I had no idea that the New England coastal area had fallen on hard times.

Did you by any chance see Charlie Rose last night? Looks like one of our rural West Tennesse girls may be up for her third Tony nomination. [/hijack]

When I said this I was of course refering to the part of Tennessee where people marry their sisters, the KKK is the government, a "mansion" is a double-wide trailor, and all morality is borne of fundie self-righteousness. In other words, I was speaking out of my own bigotry and ignorance. So spank me.

I'm sure that parts of Tennessee are are cosmopolitan and sophisticated as anywhere else in the country, and said parts may be dry.

My gut reaction when hearing about a dry county (or town) is that religious morality has put a stranglehold on secular and commercial life. And this may not be the case at all.

While Massachusetts is one of the more liberal and secular states in the union (past Puritanism aside), the Vineyard is, while still very liberal, also very religious. It was founded on religious seperatist ideas, in fact. But it's funny that the most religious town is also one of the only wet ones. As a result, it is also the most ticky-tack, touristy, loud town there. Maybe other towns are dry because they don't want to go down that road.

[CrazyCatLady]

I have a buddy in Louisville and from what he's told me, he does have a friendly neighborhood pub, drinking is a big part of his social life. He grabbed a half gallon of Jim Beam and a case of beer to take on the river this weekend for some big pre-Derby bash (but the weather was crappy) and ended up going to a bar instead to watch the festivities on a big screen.

It must have been a very pre-Derby bash, since Derby Day isn't for another week and a half. I don't think the city-wide festival leading up to the Derby starts till this weekend.

And you have to keep in mind that Louisville and Berea are very different towns. Berea's much smaller, for one thing. (And dry--let's not forget the whole reason this thread started.) Berea's also really worked at cultivating a folksy, artsy-craftsy sort of look and feel, at least to the downtown area. Even if it weren't dry, you'd likely be looking at "the bar in town" rather than "the neighborhood pub" and you'd still likely be looking at having to drive in, rather than walking.

Also, tdn, I'm glad you recognize that ignorance and bigotry does indeed deserve a spanking.

[tdn]

Also, tdn, I'm glad you recognize that ignorance and bigotry does indeed deserve a spanking.
And yet, no one is volunteering to spank me. :(

[DoctorJ]

It must have been a very pre-Derby bash, since Derby Day isn't for another week and a half. I don't think the city-wide festival leading up to the Derby starts till this weekend.
Probably Thunder Over Louisville.

[swampbear]

Also, assuming that your "Location" listing is accurate, counties are much smaller in Kentucky. Kentucky has 120 counties, second only to Texas. Based on quick and dirty look at the almanac they average around 200 square miles. They were set up so that nobody was more than 10 miles or so from the county seat. Idaho's counties seem to run around 1500 square miles. So, if you're in a moist county it's not like you're going to be more than 10 minutes or so from the wet town.
Georgia has 159 counties. Lots of wee small counties. I attempted to find a map that shows dry and wet counties in Georgia but haven't been able to. I'd be interested to see how many are still dry being as I remember as a lad of 15 and sixteen having to drive 45 miles to the nearest place to buy beer, even though I lived in a town where it was legal to sell beer in a beer joint (I still love me a good beer joint!) but not liquor at all.

[Duke of Rat]

Yeah, that was it, Thunder over Louisville. Evidently the thing is to anchor your boat in the river and watch fireworks and and airshow or something. I know they were pretty hacked that the weather turned sour, this was a pretty anticipated drinking event. Not that he needs much of an excuse to party, but he mentioned the Kentucky Derby. I think to them, Thunder Over Louisville is the start of the pre-Derby festivities

[NicePete]

It must have been a very pre-Derby bash, since Derby Day isn't for another week and a half. I don't think the city-wide festival leading up to the Derby starts till this weekend.


Thunder was on Saturday. It was about 40 degrees and rainy. First year in about 10 we haven't gone.

[CrazyCatLady]

And yet, no one is volunteering to spank me. :(

Probably has something to do with the way your eyes roll up in your head and those...noises...you make. It's no fun if you're enjoying it, you know.

[neuroman]

Texas' wet/dry (http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/map_list/index.php) system can be weird (http://www.wilco.org/Wet%20dry/wetdry.htm) and complicated (http://www.wilco.org/Wet%20dry/New%20Maps/Alcohol%20Elections%20and%20Rulings.htm).

I equate dry areas with barbarism myself, but I suppose there could be benefits. I wonder if anyone's done studies on the crime rates of wet counties vs dry counties.

[CrazyCatLady]

I don't know how conclusive that sort of study would be, really. Around home at least, the more densely populated an area is, the more likely it is that the county or at least the town is wet. Since increased population density tends to coincide with higher crime rates, I would think that would really confound your results.

And I always forget about Thunder. I don't know how, but I always do. For some reason I never think of it as a pre-Derby thing, either. I guess I'm just odd.

[dropzone]

Should I brew my own, or set up a hooch still just for kicks?Stock up before you arrive because it'll be a couple weeks between mixing your mash and the first drips out of your still. Maybe another week if you want to age it.

I'm sure you'll be able to find a local who can teach you the fine points after you've lived there long enough that they are sure you aren't a revenuer, say, maybe three generations. ;)

[Kilvert's Pagan]

It must have been a very pre-Derby bash, since Derby Day isn't for another week and a half. I don't think the city-wide festival leading up to the Derby starts till this weekend.I'm guessing that they were attending Thunder Over Louisville, which really is considered some sort of Derby kick-off in spite of being two weeks early.

You're right... Louisville and Berea are different worlds. I expect Louisville hasn't been dry since (national) Prohibition.

[Dr. Lao]

Note that Christian County is wet. Note also that, contrary to the old joke, Bourbon County is also wet. (I think this happened in the last ten years, though.)
According to the Bourbon County Tourism Commission (http://www.parisky.com/funfacts.html), Bourbon County has never been dry. At least not since prohibition as best as they can figure.

[F. U. Shakespeare]

A few years ago, a colleague and I traveled to Tifton, GA for work. The first evening that we were there, we asked the motel owner where we could get a drink.

He grinned and replied, "Didn't you know we're dry here?" We got talking with him about dry counties, and marveled that they were still around.

He claimed that the ban would come up for repeal on the ballot regularly, but whenever it did, people who owned bars and liquor stores just outside the county would fund big ad campaigns, urging people to keep the booze out of the county. Otherwise, all the business from people driving just over the border would be lost.

Preachers were always hired, and paid well by the hooch merchants to thunder on TV about the demon rum.

[Agent Cooper]

Welcome to the Century of Religious Nutjobs Running the Show ... please shut up and allow them to get on with saving you.

People will not get over it. If you are looking for sanity, you have come to the wrong planet.

[capybara]

Ok, so here's a serious question-- does anyone here perhaps live in a dry county but homebrew beer (a hobby of ours. Yes, we are exceedingly northwest)? I see homebrewing clubs in Louisville and Lexington et al, but is it ok in the other counties (if not explicitly legal at least "shrug" and not prosecuted or anything)? Would I need shipments from Williams' Brewing to come in unmarked packages, and brewing supply catalogs to come mailed in brown paper, like porn? I mean, it looks like a state with a lot of mellow and enlightened people-- there must be homebrewing outside the cities?

[dwyr]

As far as I know, you can brew what you like, as long as it's under the federal limit whatever that is. 100 gallons? You just can't distill, no moonshine. I do dandelion wine from time to time, though I live in Fayette now I grew up in a dry county.

[DoctorJ]

Stock up before you arrive because it'll be a couple weeks between mixing your mash and the first drips out of your still. Maybe another week if you want to age it.

I'm sure you'll be able to find a local who can teach you the fine points after you've lived there long enough that they are sure you aren't a revenuer, say, maybe three generations.
We're moving up to the hills this summer, and this is absolutely something I intend to learn to do. Gotta preserve those dying arts, you know. (I'm willing to bet that my pedigree checks out.)

Ok, so here's a serious question-- does anyone here perhaps live in a dry county but homebrew beer (a hobby of ours. Yes, we are exceedingly northwest)? I see homebrewing clubs in Louisville and Lexington et al, but is it ok in the other counties (if not explicitly legal at least "shrug" and not prosecuted or anything)? Would I need shipments from Williams' Brewing to come in unmarked packages, and brewing supply catalogs to come mailed in brown paper, like porn? I mean, it looks like a state with a lot of mellow and enlightened people-- there must be homebrewing outside the cities?
I can't imagine that it would be an issue. If it is, it might be related to another unfortunate Kentucky booze law--at least as of a few years ago, it was illegal to receive alcohol in the mail in Kentucky. Of course, homebrew supplies don't contain any alcohol, but I don't know how broadly the law is written. (There was talk a few years back about changing this, but I doubt they've gotten around to it.)

If the big online homebrew stores are willing to ship to Kentucky, then you can rest assured. (You can also be comforted that they have a modest selection of homebrew supplies in Lexington at Liquor Barn.)

[NicePete]

If it is, it might be related to another unfortunate Kentucky booze law--at least as of a few years ago, it was illegal to receive alcohol in the mail in Kentucky.

This was a tax issue. Something about other states not collecting reciprocal sales tax or something. It wasn't a morality thing. As far as I know, homebrewing is OK in dry counties as long as you aren't brewing it to sell. You can possess alcohol in dry counties, you just can't sell it.

DoctorJ, where are y'all moving?

[Rilchiam]

See, and that state-owned crap is why I can't go out and buy a bottle of tequila now, at 9pm on a Saturday. Friggin' ABC stores are closed. That was incredibly hard to get used to when we moved down here, because back in Kentucky when I got a booze craving at midnight, I could trot across the street and get whatever I wanted. (For some reason, I only ever get the urge to drink late in the evening, usually right after the stupid ABC stores close.) It still seems incredibly stupid to me, not being able to buy booze on a Saturday night, although people who grew up here don't seem to think twice about it. It's just what seems normal to them, because it's what they're used to.

I thought the state stores in PA, or at least in Pittsburgh, were great. Because they only stock liquor, they have a wide selection, and the staff knew what they had and could answer any questions. Also because of this, they were clean and not heavily trafficked. And they had guards. As far as craving alcohol after hours, well, you just have to plan ahead.

Out here in LA, you can get liquor at a grocery or a bodega, and even the nominal liquor stores also sell snacks, mixers, lottery tickets and so forth. I don't like them much. I don't drink any more, but Mr. Rilch goes to a nearby liquor store to get cigars from their humidor. I'm sure the staff does their best*, but they just can't keep things orderly when people are always in and out buying non-liquor items. So I have no problem with state stores as opposed to stores that have liquor as an afterthought.

*and they are cool people. While Mr. Rilch was in the humidor, I was chit-chatting with the cashier about how badly we thought the Hitchhiker's movie might suck. But the carpet is dirty and torn, and I don't know about the age of the candy by the register.

[Weirddave]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I had no idea that the New England coastal area had fallen on hard times.
[/hijack]
Look at that. You install one indoor toilet, and the whole state starts getting uppity..... :p