PDA

View Full Version : Did construction workers ever sit on metal beams to eat lunch? If so, why?


Speaker for the Dead
05-09-2005, 10:36 AM
I'm scared of heights, so this idea (http://www.veronicadesign.com/images/nyc/101-0163_IMG_sm.jpg) has always terrified me. Beyond that, though, it seems really silly and dangerous. A worker my might be safe while he's sitting, but what if there's a gust of wind or a slippery spot when he's moving to the end of the beam?

Why would construction workers sit on a metal beam when they could sit on the ground, or on another, more stable (i.e. not hanging from a crane) part of the project?

Duke of Rat
05-09-2005, 11:08 AM
It would take too long to get to the ground. Those guys walk on those beams all day, I'm sure eating lunch while perched on one would be second nature.

vetbridge
05-09-2005, 11:18 AM
A friend of mine was an iron worker before he injured his knee. Not only do they walk/etc in a very dangerous situation, but many of them drink their lunch (if ya know what I mean).

Eve
05-09-2005, 11:49 AM
Now I've got "It's Raining Men" stuck in my head . . .

Sauron
05-09-2005, 11:55 AM
Why would construction workers sit on a metal beam when they could sit on the ground, or on another, more stable (i.e. not hanging from a crane) part of the project?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ironworkers usually sit on beams suspended from cranes to eat their lunch. They sit on the beams that are already a part of the building framework. As to why they do that, Duke of Rat has answered -- it would take too long for them to get to the ground.

CBCD
05-09-2005, 12:00 PM
That statue is based on a famous photograph (http://www.buffalogames.com/Media/Product%20Images/BGI-COLLECT/330-Hist/hires/333-Lunc_hires.jpg) taken in 1932 by Charles Ebbett of a lunchbreak during construction of Rockefeller Center.

aruvqan
05-09-2005, 12:02 PM
LOL, can't say as to iron wrkers but I do know the high scalers on the Boulder Dam/Hoover Dam project used to eat perched on the cliff face. mrAru's' grandfather was a high scaler on the project. Fascinating man, just wish he had lived long enough for me to meet him=(

Uncommon Sense
05-09-2005, 12:03 PM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ironworkers usually sit on beams suspended from cranes to eat their lunch. They sit on the beams that are already a part of the building framework. As to why they do that, Duke of Rat has answered -- it would take too long for them to get to the ground.
Where to they keep their lunches? They don't drag their lunches all over the building with them. Where ever they store their lunch boxes in the morning would be the ideal place to eat lunch, you would think. After all, they have to GO GET the lunch boxes at lunch anyway.

Celyn
05-09-2005, 01:17 PM
But if they have to carry various hammers and similar implements of construction with them, then surely a couple of sandwiches wouldn't add much to the trouble (tho' they might be a bit squashed by lunchtime).

Gary T
05-09-2005, 01:29 PM
Leaving your lunch on the ground or carrying it on your person aren't the only options. I would think if you're working on the umpteenth story today, you'd take it up with you in the morning and find a place to set it near where you're working.

Dewey Finn
05-09-2005, 01:37 PM
I think workers literally used lunch buckets to carry their food, as shown here (http://americanhistory.si.edu/lunchboxes/section1.htm). But the workers in the photo appear to be eating from identical boxes. Were their meals catered?

Tabby_Cat
05-09-2005, 01:49 PM
I've always wondered about this - today construction techniques don't require people to build a "framework" dozens of storeys above the last completed level, do they?

Uncommon Sense
05-09-2005, 02:07 PM
Leaving your lunch on the ground or carrying it on your person aren't the only options. I would think if you're working on the umpteenth story today, you'd take it up with you in the morning and find a place to set it near where you're working.
Right, but it wouldn't be on the friggin beam their working on. They also wouldn't all be working on the same beam. I would think they have agreed to eat on the beam for the value of the photo being taken, I'd be suprised to learn that this was SOP. The other option is to have some grunt bring your lunch up from the umptee-seventh floor to the umptee-eleventh floor.

TabbyCat, todays sonstruction standards are so finely tuned by OSHA that you can barely spend a day as an Iron Worker and not be constantly tied off via safety harnesses and fall protection ropes. I think you have to be tied off if you're 8 feet or more above the next safe platform, unless your making a connection, then you have to tie off as soon as the connection is secure. The days of beam walking without fall protection are over.
As far as your other question, every project (building) is tackled differently. Most buildings today can be built from the inside out a couple of levels at a time.

msmith537
05-09-2005, 02:58 PM
I've always wondered about this - today construction techniques don't require people to build a "framework" dozens of storeys above the last completed level, do they?

Basically, a concrete slab is poured on each floor as the collumns are completed.


http://eies.njit.edu/~taher/Skyscrapers.pdf#search='modern%20skyscraper%20construction%20techniques'

CaveMike
05-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Right, but it wouldn't be on the friggin beam their working on. They also wouldn't all be working on the same beam. I would think they have agreed to eat on the beam for the value of the photo being taken, I'd be suprised to learn that this was SOP. The other option is to have some grunt bring your lunch up from the umptee-seventh floor to the umptee-eleventh floor.What do you think is not SOP? That eleven guys meet at a common beam and eat lunch every day? On a project with hundreds of workers, that doesn't seem too unlikely. It seems likely that at lunchtime, the workers would tend to congregate in a common place - probably the same place they left their lunch box in the morning. Granted, the guys in that photo may have been posed for the shot, but I expect that to be a common seen at noon.

Cervaise
05-09-2005, 03:18 PM
That statue is based on a famous photograph (http://www.buffalogames.com/Media/Product%20Images/BGI-COLLECT/330-Hist/hires/333-Lunc_hires.jpg) taken in 1932 by Charles Ebbett of a lunchbreak during construction of Rockefeller Center.Looking at that image makes my calves vibrate.

—clicks "close"—

Duke of Rat
05-09-2005, 03:41 PM
A few more pics Here (http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/empire.html)

Interestingly enough, Mohawk Indians (http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/exhibits/boomingout/highlights.html) are still well represented among ironworkers.

Celyn
05-09-2005, 03:49 PM
Looking at the photo, I now wonder how the guys could stand up after lunch, or, indeed, sit down in the first place - simply because the sit-down/stand-up process normally requires, for clumsy people like me, anyway, a bit more in the way of space to pub my feet and so on.

Yet of course the pic precedes phototshop, and I've seen photos of the building of some high blocks near where I live too.

Hellm, that is a job I would not have had for more than two minutes, then splat! :(

scr4
05-09-2005, 03:54 PM
Maybe they preferred it up there? If I had no fear of heights (i.e. not even the "standard" amount of fear), I might do it for the view and fresh air.

By the way, if going down to the ground was too much trouble for lunch, what did they do for a bathroom? The obvious answer is rather disgusting - though I suppose it would disperse into an invisible mist before it hits the ground.

CBCD
05-09-2005, 04:39 PM
A few more pics Here (http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/empire.html)

Interestingly enough, Mohawk Indians (http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/exhibits/boomingout/highlights.html) are still well represented among ironworkers.
My step-father worked at a large constuction and contracting company headquartered in New York. His company, for example, had the maintenance contract on the antennas and lights on top of the World Trade Center (RIP) and Empire State Building. It was some steeplejack's job, for example, to climp to the top of the antenna on the top of the WTC and change the lightbulb. He told me that a large percentage of steeplejacks were Native Americans. He said for some reason, Native Americans were not as afraid of heights as Europeans. I don't know if this was or is true, but I do know it was a commonly held belief in 'the business.'

tremorviolet
05-09-2005, 04:49 PM
Time for a Straight Dope classic: Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)...

tremorviolet
05-09-2005, 04:50 PM
Time for a Straight Dope classic: Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)...

Bleh.

Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)

tremorviolet
05-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Time for a Straight Dope classic: Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)...

Lord, what happened to that other post?

Fixed link: Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)

Ummmm, I think I broke the boards...

bizzwire
05-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ironworkers usually sit on beams suspended from cranes to eat their lunch. They sit on the beams that are already a part of the building framework. As to why they do that, Duke of Rat has answered -- it would take too long for them to get to the ground.

Waitaminute!!!! They've got a freakin' crane!!! Capable of lifting heavy I-beams to, well, wherever they are. Why no use the crane to take you down for a nice safe lunch?
Alternatively, they could leave their lunch on the ground, and use the crane to bring it up at lunchtime.

tremorviolet
05-09-2005, 04:59 PM
Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing? All the posts after my second post are nested inside my post (including the forum selection thing and the quick reply box). The reply page does the same thing in reverse. I've logged out and back in again. Is it just me or a board thing?

I can't believe that's butter!
05-09-2005, 05:05 PM
Uh, what the hell? :D What'd you do!? It's like ball lightning! One o' them there nesters, ay-yup....

Weren't fallen tools a hazrd? Certainly there must have been a provision to catch wayward tools, apparatus, lunchpails, gimcracks, etc.?

Derleth
05-09-2005, 05:07 PM
Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing? All the posts after my second post are nested inside my post (including the forum selection thing and the quick reply box). The reply page does the same thing in reverse. I've logged out and back in again. Is it just me or a board thing?I'm seeing it. Firefox 1.0.2 on Linux.

I didn't think it was possible to fuck up this badly. You should be proud of yourself.

Dog80
05-09-2005, 05:08 PM
Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing? All the posts after my second post are nested inside my post (including the forum selection thing and the quick reply box). The reply page does the same thing in reverse. I've logged out and back in again. Is it just me or a board thing?

I can see it too. Spooky! :eek:

tremorviolet
05-09-2005, 05:09 PM
I didn't think it was possible to fuck up this badly. You should be proud of yourself.

:D

Rick
05-09-2005, 05:12 PM
Waitaminute!!!! They've got a freakin' crane!!! Capable of lifting heavy I-beams to, well, wherever they are. Why no use the crane to take you down for a nice safe lunch?
Alternatively, they could leave their lunch on the ground, and use the crane to bring it up at lunchtime.
Cranes are not made to transport people, just loads.

CBCD
05-09-2005, 05:36 PM
Is anyone seeing what I'm seeing? All the posts after my second post are nested inside my post (including the forum selection thing and the quick reply box). The reply page does the same thing in reverse. I've logged out and back in again. Is it just me or a board thing?

You must die!

Colibri
05-09-2005, 05:39 PM
Ummmm, I think I broke the boards...

My God, don't do it again or this thread will dwindle away to nothing . . .

C K Dexter Haven
05-09-2005, 05:39 PM
I think I've fixed the craziness, but I'm not sure what/why the heck it went like that. I'll push it over to the Powers and see what they say...

Derleth
05-09-2005, 05:42 PM
You must die!I alone am best!

Uh... sorry.

Anyway, kudos to C K Dexter Haven. I guess I won't be punching him after all. ;)

Queen Bruin
05-09-2005, 06:44 PM
Time for a Straight Dope classic: Why do so many Native Americans work on skyscrapers? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_060.html)...

Huh is that why I was never afraid of heights? I am a smidgen teeny bit Mohawk.

Valgard
05-09-2005, 06:56 PM
FWIW the Golden Gate Bridge was one of the first major construction projects to ban "stunting" and to enforce safety rules by firing workers who disobeyed. The book "Spanning The Gate" has some hair-raising stories from the ironworkers including some of the stuff that they used to do on previous jobs. A lot of it sounds like it was bravado, show the other guys that you had the Right Stuff.

Compared to some of those stories (walking out on a lone beam high above the street to retrieve a sheet of building material, in high winds, with no safety rope) eating lunch while sitting on a beam sounds like it would have been pretty simple.

Imasquare
05-09-2005, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat]A few more pics Here (http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/empire.html)
On the pictures in that link show some workers having lunch on a completed section of floor.

http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/interior.html

Duke of Rat
05-09-2005, 07:54 PM
I'm sure they didn't always eat on a solitary beam, but if that was the only place to eat it wouldn't phase them.

zagloba
05-09-2005, 07:55 PM
The Golden Gate bridge was also the first to use safety nets. Those whose lives were saved by the net formed a club.

BaldTaco
05-09-2005, 08:30 PM
I recently saw a documentary on the steelworkers from Kahnawake. One of the guys currently walking the girders in NY is a descendant of one of the guys in the photo, an indian who came from Montreal to build the Empire State Building. These guys are amazingly comfortable working many, many stories above the ground.

They all carry this spike that they use to join the beams while they're riveting. I don't remember seeing anyone riding on a beam while it was carried by a crane, but they would grab the beam and direct it into place, jab in the spike, and jump up on top of the new beam, pretty much all in one motion. After watching this guy hopping around, sitting down for lunch seems pretty tame.

cornflakes
05-09-2005, 09:56 PM
Waitaminute!!!! They've got a freakin' crane!!! Capable of lifting heavy I-beams to, well, wherever they are. Why no use the crane to take you down for a nice safe lunch?
Alternatively, they could leave their lunch on the ground, and use the crane to bring it up at lunchtime.Cranes are not made to transport people, just loads.They also cost money. The contractor probably expected the workers to get up to the top on their own time under their own labor.

Safety rules were sometimes ridiculously lax or nonexistent before OSHA. The risk of getting injured or dying on the was often accepted as part of the cost of making a living.

treis
05-09-2005, 10:07 PM
How many people as a percentage would typically fall to their deaths on a high rise like that? I get a little bit skeeved out looking at those pictures but I bet you get used to it.

Valgard
05-10-2005, 12:17 AM
The Golden Gate bridge was also the first to use safety nets. Those whose lives were saved by the net formed a club.

They called it the "Halfway to hell" club - typically one of the most dangerous phases of building a suspension bridge was putting together the deck. A lot of workers were lost into "the hole". By hanging a great big net underneath they increased productivity once the workers trusted it. Worked fine and cut casualties until one day a travelling platform (used to inspect the underside of the bridge deck) broke and fell into the net. The whole net unzipped and fell into the Bay, taking a lot of people with it. There are photos and you can see the little dots that are people, clinging to the net as it all falls down. Something like a dozen people died in that accident.

They all carry this spike that they use to join the beams while they're riveting.

Called a "spud wrench" IIRC. It looks like a big wrench with the handle end tapered to a point. You get two pieces of steel roughly lined up, jab the point in to bring them to precise alignment, then use the wrench end to tighten bolts to hold everything in place.

How many people as a percentage would typically fall to their deaths on a high rise like that?

Around the time of the GG Bridge (1930s) the general estimate was one death per million dollars of construction cost. The Bay Bridge, which went up about the same time as the GG Bridge (a little bit earlier), had many more deaths than the GG Bridge, in part due to the stringent safety measures used on the latter (the aforementioned safety net, firing workers who were caught without hardhats, etc).

Keep in mind this was during the Depression, people really needed work and if one man fell to his death there were plenty more waiting to fill the job.

Bambi Hassenpfeffer
05-10-2005, 01:48 AM
I'd like to point out that in this picture (http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/securing.jpeg) (in the collection linked by Duke of Rat), the guy on the right is God knows how high in the air, standing only on two 2x4s that are supported only by the weight of the guy on the left. :eek:

Any of this business would leave me paralyzed in terror and laying down, bearhugging whatever beam was closest.

matt
05-10-2005, 02:54 AM
the guy on the right is God knows how high in the air, standing only on two 2x4s that are supported only by the weight of the guy on the left. :eek:


I'm thinking that the left ends of the 2x4s may be tied down with something, but then again...

Broomstick
05-10-2005, 05:13 AM
I'd like to point out that even with today's much more stringent safety rules and equipment people still die building tall buildings - just not as often as they used to.

You probably wouldn't want someone who was truly fearless about heights. This is a case where fear (or, if that's too potent a word, "caution" or "respect" or whatever euphensim you choose) will help keep you safe by limiting your grandstanding and stunts. Sure, the guys did crazy macho stuff to impress each other. But the Darwinian aspects of high iron construction imposed limits on these activities.

In Chicago barriers are mandated between constructions sites and pedestrians, safety harness and hard hats required, and so forth. And accidents still happen. Window washers, who operate on riduculously skimpy seats (I think they call 'em "bo'sun's chairs") and rappel from the top of those skyscrapers that you see in picture postcards, are at similar risk of falling. Periodically you see these guys dangling off a collapsed scaffold or otherwise in need of rescue. In the old days, with less safety rules, these guys would have been killed. Deaths seldom happen these days because Mr-Happy-I'm-Dangling-Over-the-Abyss mugging for the female office workers wears safety equipment. Their tools are also harnessed, so while you may get some sudsy water dropping down to sidewalk and street you don't have a dropped squeegee taking out the tourists.

Actually, widow-washing a skycraper looks kinda fun - on a nice day.

Celyn
05-10-2005, 05:21 AM
:eek: It looks like a game of seesaw for the suicidal.

I'm now massively ashamed of having panic attacks for no reason at all. What a horribly scary job, and, yes, even for those Mohawk guys, if, as was suggested, they were shit-scared all along but it wouldn't be macho to let it show.

:(

Uncommon Sense
05-10-2005, 07:07 AM
What do you think is not SOP? That eleven guys meet at a common beam and eat lunch every day? On a project with hundreds of workers, that doesn't seem too unlikely. It seems likely that at lunchtime, the workers would tend to congregate in a common place - probably the same place they left their lunch box in the morning. Granted, the guys in that photo may have been posed for the shot, but I expect that to be a common seen at noon.

No, I understand completely how lunchtime works on a construction site, I'm a construction electrician myself (currently doing fulltime maintenance work). I'm just saying that in most of those pictures where the guys are sitting on a beam......their lunches had to be retrieved first and then the guys went out on the beam(s) to eat and pose for the shot. IOW, the men walked over to where ever their lunches were sitting, grabbed them, then walked back out onto the beam to show-off. They could have easily eaten where the lunches were stored during the morning.

bienville
05-10-2005, 07:41 AM
I'd like to point out that in this picture (http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/art/photo/hinex/empire/securing.jpeg) (in the collection linked by Duke of Rat), the guy on the right is God knows how high in the air, standing only on two 2x4s that are supported only by the weight of the guy on the left.

The guy on the right is certainly in a precarious situation, but I don't think it's quite as you describe.

There are two 2x4s extending from the building structure but it looks as though only his left foot in planted on a 2x4. His right foot seems like it is planted upon a corner of the iron framework that extends slightly beyond the vertical beam that they are working on. His right foot and my conjectured "corner" are obscured by the foreground 2x4, but looking below the 2x4 it is clear that the structure does indeed extend by about 12 inches. In addition, his right foot doesn't come close to the background 2x4, he's clearly got it planted somewhere else.

And, although the 2x4 beneath his left foot is weighted down only by the guy on the left, you can see that he is putting most of his own weight on his right foot (the foot planted upon the corner of iron framework).

Not that this makes it safe! But it's not quite as scary as Bambi Hassenpfeffer's description.








About the statue pictured in the OP, can anyone tell me where that statue is displayed? (specifics please- don't just say "New York".)


Be the first one to tell me where the statue is and you win a donkey!

bienville
05-10-2005, 07:47 AM
IOW, the men walked over to where ever their lunches were sitting, grabbed them, then walked back out onto the beam to show-off. They could have easily eaten where the lunches were stored during the morning.

I'm not claiming to know how the set-up was, but just to suggest another possibility:

Space enough to accomodate 11 lunch boxes does not neccessarily mean space enough to accomodate 11 construction workers assembled socially and seated.

They may have had to go one by one to retreive their lunches, or perhaps single file with the guy at the front of the line passing the lunch boxes back down the line until every one got his own lunch. Then they could retire to a place where they could all sit and eat (out on the beam).

Meurglys
05-10-2005, 08:07 AM
I understood that they would stash their lunch-boxes near the temporary lift they came up on and that an apprentice would have been sent back to fetch all the boxes for the group of workers he was with when it was nearly lunchtime.

Celyn
05-10-2005, 08:24 AM
Is it likely, esp. re. the guy with a foot on the 2 by 4, that work would have been ONLY done on days with no wind? I can see that it may not be as precarious as I firist imagined, but all the same, that high upm, and a gust of wind..........................................:eek:

Shalmanese
05-10-2005, 09:32 AM
When I was on exchange in Hong Kong, the custom there is to use bamboo for scaffolding instead of steel beams. Construction workers would scramble all over those structures with no safety harness often leaning very far in or very far out to get to particularly hard to reach places.

It became even more disturbing to watch when there was moderate wind around and the entire structure would start bending and swaying. Luckily, none of the projects around our campus suffered from any fatalities but it seemed incredibly cavalier.

postcards
05-10-2005, 09:55 AM
About the statue pictured in the OP, can anyone tell me where that statue is displayed? (specifics please- don't just say "New York".)


Be the first one to tell me where the statue is and you win a donkey!

I think it's in lower Manhattan. Does that get me at least a mule?

bienville
05-11-2005, 01:48 AM
I think it's in lower Manhattan. Does that get me at least a mule?

Sorry. No half-prizes. And I need more than "lower Manhattan", but thanks for playing.
:D

CBCD
05-11-2005, 02:19 AM
Fulton Street, in New York City.

I don't think it's there - I KNOW it's there.

bienville
05-11-2005, 02:23 AM
Fulton Street, in New York City.

I don't think it's there - I KNOW it's there.

Congratulations, CBCD! Your donkey will be in the mail later this week.








Now to plan a trip to Fulton St., I dig that statue. :)

Antonius Block
05-11-2005, 02:24 AM
About the statue pictured in the OP, can anyone tell me where that statue is displayed? (specifics please- don't just say "New York".)

Be the first one to tell me where the statue is and you win a donkey!Sure, it's at the viewing platform for Ground Zero (http://www.veronicadesign.com/nyc.htm) (see photo at bottom right of page). It's by the exit ramp while you are leaving the memorial. More details are here (http://groups.msn.com/Emergency911/thenewyorkjournal.msnw):
near the end of the exit ramp are more tributes: a Guestbook, which I sign on behalf of Emergency911, four commemorative posters, and the sculpture "Lunch on a Skyscraper," all of which I capture on film.Photo here (http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VAD9AvkZrW4vB91AkmDaxtFRMoFNhBLxLBD5yIX88tLWUG3jqNFO*7zO80L3YrwQVz4A4IDz9wS5uwOJhAlaW7CSwJV!k9VH5ZO KyxHoLuWIfLUMbNgY3nc5BJjLiXzX/24LunchOnASkyscraper.jpg?dc=4675364856662226648).

A donkey! Man, my cat is going to be so thrilled to have a pet. Yeehaw!

Antonius Block
05-11-2005, 02:27 AM
Darn! Pipped at the post. Now I have to break the news to my cat.

Will there ever be a donkey?

bienville
05-11-2005, 02:42 AM
Darn! Pipped at the post. Now I have to break the news to my cat.

Will there ever be a donkey?

Sorry, you gave wonderful details but when the offer is "be the first, win the donkey" sometimes it serves you better to get a non-detailed answer in quick.

Although, since I don't know the area well enough, perhaps you could clarify this:

From the looks of the area on Mapquest it doesn't look like Fulton St. extends as far West as Ground Zero.

If you want to dispute CBCD's emphatic claim that the statue is on Fulton St. it is possible you could steal back the donkey (I haven't gotten to the Post Office yet).

So does Fulton St. get close enough to Ground Zero for the two claims to reconcile? Or is the Fulton St. claim in conflict with the Ground Zero claim?

If the answers do not conflict then we have to allow that CBCD is still the winner.

Antonius Block
05-11-2005, 02:52 AM
My cat wishes it to be known that the statue is not actually on Fulton St. If you look carefully at this (http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VAD9AvkZrW4vB91AkmDaxtFRMoFNhBLxLBD5yIX88tLWUG3jqNFO*7zO80L3YrwQVz4A4IDz9wS5uwOJhAlaW7CSwJV!k9VH5ZO KyxHoLuWIfLUMbNgY3nc5BJjLiXzX/24LunchOnASkyscraper.jpg?dc=4675364856662226648) picture, you'll see that the statue is stationed on a truck outside 193 Broadway. This is indeed at the intersection with Fulton Street, but the statue is on Broadway.

The intersection of Broadway and Fulton is at the eastern edge of the Ground Zero Memorial. But, is the statue to be found on Fulton St? No, sir, it is not! It is with such details that challenges are won, and cats receive pet donkeys.

CBCD
05-11-2005, 02:58 AM
Congratulations, CBCD! Your donkey will be in the mail later this week.
Gosh, there's something to be said for being awake in the middle of the night.

I am feeling generous. Please send the donkey to Antonius Block and his cat. I don't need it. Life is good. Why am I feeling so generous?

1. I recognized the original photograph (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6139639&postcount=6) that was the basis for this statue, and
2. I am the unofficial winner of the 'Where is this statue' contest.

CBCD
05-11-2005, 03:04 AM
My cat wishes it to be known that the statue is not actually on Fulton St. If you look carefully at this (http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VAD9AvkZrW4vB91AkmDaxtFRMoFNhBLxLBD5yIX88tLWUG3jqNFO*7zO80L3YrwQVz4A4IDz9wS5uwOJhAlaW7CSwJV!k9VH5ZO KyxHoLuWIfLUMbNgY3nc5BJjLiXzX/24LunchOnASkyscraper.jpg?dc=4675364856662226648) picture, you'll see that the statue is stationed on a truck outside 193 Broadway. This is indeed at the intersection with Fulton Street, but the statue is on Broadway.

The intersection of Broadway and Fulton is at the eastern edge of the Ground Zero Memorial. But, is the statue to be found on Fulton St? No, sir, it is not! It is with such details that challenges are won, and cats receive pet donkeys.
Antonious Block - Please note that I had already declined receipt of my prize and asked Bienville to send it to you and your cat before I saw your cranky post above. I still wish Bienville to send the donkey to go to your cat. But not to you. :D

bienville
05-11-2005, 03:06 AM
Goodness!

The "Win a Donkey" giveaway has never seen such an upset, nor has it ever been so hard fought!

Congratulations, Antonius Block! Your dedication and attention to detail have paid off. When I visit the statue I will think of you.

Your donkey will be in the mail later this week. Ready the kitty.




CBCD, thank you for being so gracious. You are an inspiration to us all.

Antonius Block
05-11-2005, 03:13 AM
CBCD, thank you for being so gracious. You are an inspiration to us all.Sure, it's easy to be gracious when you provide the wrong answer, and have it pointed out to you. :D

bienville, my cat is not quite so sure that she even wants your donkey at this point unless everybody (especially me) apologizes to her.

Such is the way of cats.

[Of course, she's not the one who has to pay for cat food].

CBCD
05-11-2005, 04:37 AM
Sure, it's easy to be gracious when you provide the wrong answer, and have it pointed out to you. :D


:D You out-of-towners can be so cute sometimes. :D

There is no 193 Broadway.

There is a 195 Broadway, a landmark building - the original ATT building. Here (http://www.evanzucker.com/broadway%20and%20fulton%20street%202.jpg) is a picture of the front of 195 Broadway. Note the color of the round thingy on the wall. Note the shape of the windows. Compare them to the construction worker picture. They are not the same. Close, but not the same. The pictures of the construction workers was not taken on from the front of this building, which is on Broadway.

Now rest your gaze here. (http://www.win.net/dorsea/nehager/september_11/images/ground_zero2_150.jpg) This is the north side of 195 Broadway. The round thingy is the same color as the one in the construction worker photograph, and the windows are the same shape. There are no traffic signs obscuring the round thingy on the wall. No one would ever be allowed to park a flatbed truck on Broadway.

So Antonius Block - I spent a long time finding just the right pictures. (Like, waaaay too long) I await your snappy comeback. You have a lot of explaining to do. Where that donkey goes, I don't care. Whatever happens, though, let's keep your cat out of it. ;)

CBCD
05-11-2005, 04:47 AM
Antonius Block, in my untoward competitive frenzied state while stomping on your victory dance, I forgot to mention the name of that street that runs along the north side of 195 Broadway. It's called Fulton Street (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=fulton+and+broadway+new+york+new+york&ll=40.711731,-74.009240&spn=0.004105,0.010145&hl=en) :p

All in fun, of course.

How's the cat?

CBCD
05-11-2005, 01:38 PM
:D Sure, it's easy to be gracious when you provide the wrong answer, and have it pointed out to you. :D

Antonius Block - I'm standing in the street outside your house. I'm waiting for you. Come outside so I can show you this special can of whup-ass with your name on it. Keep the cat out of it. Let's just get it over with. You've earned it.

Everyone is waiting for you to show up. Don't make me come in there to get you! :D

I just checked with someone who works in 195 Broadway, and the statue is no longer there. Not on Fulton, and certainly not on Broadway. :D

(All in fun. And what fun!)

carnivorousplant
05-11-2005, 08:50 PM
Boy, talk about sequential threads. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=315948&highlight=mule)

bienville
05-11-2005, 10:43 PM
I just checked with someone who works in 195 Broadway, and the statue is no longer there. Not on Fulton, and certainly not on Broadway. :D

Then no one has yet won the donkey, since the donkey prize question was
About the statue pictured in the OP, can anyone tell me where that statue is displayed?

The question was not "Where was it at the time the photograph was taken?"

CBCD, Antonius Block, Antonius Block's cat, No donkey for you!!!

Antonius Block
05-12-2005, 05:59 AM
Hi bienville, I've just got back in and read through the updates to this thread. I for one am very glad that you didn't get around to shipping out that donkey, given that the statue's current whereabouts is, unfortunately, still "unknown".

I'm sorry to the extent that I may have misled you; I hope it was clear that I was going from online photographic evidence (hence the links), rather than claiming any specific recent local knowledge (in which case you would have undoubtedly held my claims to a higher standard). I can only imagine the disappointment if you had made it to Broadway & Fulton and found the statue to be missing.

I think that CBCD's friend deserves some credit for providing us all with the information that the statue is no longer at that location. I wonder where it is now? As my location field shows, I'm about 3000 miles from Ground Zero, so I'm mainly dependent on online sources. [Upon further reflection, getting within a few feet of the absolute location from 3000 miles away would probably be considered a great success in such fields as, say, missile defense.]

One would imagine that the statue is still in Manhattan. I'm hoping that CBCD will be able to find the new location, given that he's not one of those "out-of-towners" that he justifiably denigrates.

Good chap, that CBCD, although perhaps a little excitable. I can understand his frustration, however; after all, we have clear evidence that the statue was moved sometime between 3:19am EDT on May 11, 2005:Fulton Street, in New York City. I don't think it's there - I KNOW it's there
and 2:38pm:
I just checked with someone who works in 195 Broadway, and the statue is no longer there.
That's a period of less than 12 hours -- having apparently been there since shortly after 9/11/2001. What are the chances? :p

Anyway, bienville, I'll pass the location request down to some NYC-based friends, and hopefully your statue will be located.

It's probably just as well that my cat won't be getting the donkey, since she'd probably play with it for a while, and then regret having taken it on as a pet. I think they call this brayer's remorse. Plus, there are currently quite enough asses in this household as it is. :D

[Sorry that I took so long replying. My neighbors tell me that there's been some guy hanging around outside the front of my house all day muttering, while brandishing a canister of some bioweapon or other. Fortunately, I enter and leave my house via the side entrance, on the sidestreet round the corner. :cool: ]

CBCD
05-12-2005, 10:08 PM
One would imagine that the statue is still in Manhattan. I'm hoping that CBCD will be able to find the new location, given that he's not one of those "out-of-towners" that he justifiably denigrates.
Good chap, that CBCD, although perhaps a little excitable....
[Sorry that I took so long replying. My neighbors tell me that there's been some guy hanging around outside the front of my house all day muttering, while brandishing a canister of some bioweapon or other. Fortunately, I enter and leave my house via the side entrance, on the sidestreet round the corner. :cool: ]
Dear Antonius Block. I don't know who that 'guy' was outside your house. I am that crackpot married mother of three who doing cartwheels in front of your house laughing over how much fun she was having tormenting you. Thanks for being a good sport.
That's me in this picture (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/christelb_devlin/detail?.dir=0e8a&.dnm=b969.jpg&.src=ph) between my husband, my daughter, and two of my dogs. I guess my post wasn't as funny as I thought it was if you didn't know that.

Yes, I was mistaken about where the statue is today. The statue used to be on Fulton Street, but it's not there now. I have no idea where it is and will leave that to someone else to discover. I'm far too emotionally involved.

I spent over an hour last night gathering my rebuttal evidence about 195 vs. 193 Broadway, looking at maps, calling friends, and analyzing the color of commemorative medallions on walls. Someone, please pity me!! :)

Antonius Block
05-13-2005, 05:30 AM
I don't know who that 'guy' was outside your house. I am that crackpot married mother of three who doing cartwheels in front of your house laughing over how much fun she was having tormenting you.Well, I never claimed that my neighbors were reliable witnesses. :) I erroneously jumped to the conclusion that you were male, given that in the past my female tormentors have pretty much been limited to (a)my sisters and (b)women with whom I was currently involved (for some reason, "exes" don't feel the need to torment me so much). An easy mistake on my part, perhaps, but I apologize for the gender confusion.

I do think that our little back-and-forth was helpful in Fighting Ignorance, since you (as I will now admit for the first time) clearly nailed the former location, but if I had not been so ornery and snarky, we wouldn't have found out that it's no longer there! Out of such (good-natured) conflict comes the truth -- or at least, the next level of questions. :)

Of course, none of this is much use to bienville, except perhaps for raising his level of skepticism concerning simple answers. I wonder where the statue is now? It's a fairly big and well-known piece. My impish side thinks that maybe it got stored in the same Government warehouse as the Ark of the Covenant (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/).

[Looking at your photos: you know you're a hottie, right? I'm glad that you didn't play that card in our sparring! Your family, pets, and yard look wonderful. Are you in Monmouth County, by any chance? You'll be glad -- given our recent rivalry -- to hear that one of my most embarassing days ever was when I gave an invited talk at a conference at Monmouth College (now Monmouth University (http://www.monmouth.edu/default.asp)), in the building that played Daddy Warbucks' mansion in Annie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083564/) (1982). I'd guess from your photos that you're on one of the inlets a couple of miles north of there.]

I spent over an hour last night gathering my rebuttal evidence about 195 vs. 193 Broadway, looking at maps, calling friends, and analyzing the color of commemorative medallions on walls. Someone, please pity me!!:)Sorry, there'll be no pity from this quarter. We're all suffering from the same disease. The usual protocol is to stand up and say "Hi, I'm <name>, and I'm a Doper". That pretty much covers the obsessiveness! :D

CBCD
05-13-2005, 08:32 AM
[Looking at your photos: you know you're a hottie, right? I'm glad that you didn't play that card in our sparring! Your family, pets, and yard look wonderful. Are you in Monmouth County, by any chance?...I'd guess from your photos that you're on one of the inlets a couple of miles north of there.]
:D

Of course I know I'm a hottie, especially for an old broad. I chose not to play that card with you. I did, however, refer to it here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6146321&postcount=12), and modestly declined to post a picture. I live in Fair Haven, NJ, a great small town of 5000 people in Monmouth County. Here (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/christelb_devlin/detail?.dir=0e8a&.dnm=ec89.jpg&.src=ph) is the view of the Navesink River from my backyard. Worth looking at if you'd like to see how beautiful New Jersey is.

Hey everyone! Announcement! Bienville, CBCD, and CBCD's new long distance imaginary Doper boyfriend Antonius Block have pooled their resources and will pay a handsome prize to the first Doper to identify where that statue is RIGHT NOW!

Is this thread in danger of getting moved to MPSIMS? If not, pray tell, why not?

bienville
05-14-2005, 03:20 AM
Hey everyone! Announcement! Bienville, CBCD, and CBCD's new long distance imaginary Doper boyfriend Antonius Block have pooled their resources and will pay a handsome prize to the first Doper to identify where that statue is RIGHT NOW!

Whoah there! I offer only a donkey (plus S&H).

Is this thread in danger of getting moved to MPSIMS? If not, pray tell, why not?

'Cause it has a factual answer, CBCD.
(Actually, I fear the more likely course of action would be a lockdown with instructions to open a new Thread. This may be the most god-awful hijack I've ever been part of- and I'm proud!)

Antonius Block
05-15-2005, 06:33 AM
Hey everyone! Announcement! Bienville, CBCD, and CBCD's new long distance imaginary Doper boyfriend Antonius Block have pooled their resources and will pay a handsome prize to the first Doper to identify where that statue is RIGHT NOW! CBCD, it's surely impressive that bienville is still offering the donkey after all the ups and downs, but I'm not sure that I'm prepared to go in on this. After all, I'm not the one who stayed up until the wee hours calling friends at 3am to try to locate a statue... Sorry, my cat has found something of earth-shattering importance behind a piece of fluff under a chair, and no longer cares for donkeys or NYC skyscraper workers.

And, CBCD? I'm certainly flattered to be your new Doper boyfriend, but (actors' names substituted for characters'):
[Fred Gwynne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/) in My Cousin Vinny (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/), when he finds out that Marisa Tomei (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000673/) is Joe Pesci (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/)'s fiancee]:
"Well, that would certainly explain the hostility."
[/FG]

Yes, it's still GQ. Where is the statue NOW?

TellMeI'mNotCrazy
05-15-2005, 07:31 AM
This is the funniest thread I've read all week.


Sorry, I don't actually have the answer, though.

Hey, no THROWING donkeys at me... geez, I'm goin', I'm goin'...

CBCD
05-15-2005, 07:47 AM
Antonius Block - Sorry to put you under such stress. It's probably better that I characterize you as one of my 'imaginary Doper friends'. Is that better?

I'd also like to clear up a minor misunderstanding. Indeed I called friends who work downtown about the statue, but their answers were pretty fuzzy. Then in a moment of inspiration I called the general number of this establishment (http://www.starbucks.com/retail/locator/MapResults.aspx?a=1&StoreKey=1557&IC_O=40.7104546232689%3a-74.0093207139952%3a32%3a195+Broadway&GAD1_O=&GAD2_O=195+Broadway&GAD3_O=New+York%2c+NY+10007&GAD4_O=United+States&radius=2&countryID=244&dataSource=MapPoint.NA) and several helpful baristas confirmed 'It ain't there no more.' That was the authoritative 'someone' of my post.

I offer, as my portion of the prize, one of the big wads of fluffy hair I brush off my Border Collie morning, noon and night.

andrewdt85
05-15-2005, 10:37 AM
The whole net unzipped and fell into the Bay, taking a lot of people with it. There are photos and you can see the little dots that are people, clinging to the net as it all falls down.

Where can I see these pics online? :D

andrewdt85
05-15-2005, 10:40 AM
Actually, cancel that- I won't do it. I don't go to ogrish (www.ogrish.com) anymore, I don't want to look at those, honestly.