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pool
05-10-2005, 03:43 AM
Does Nihilism in the philosophical sense include refutations of scientific laws and such (ex. Law of Gravity) or does it only include philosophical beliefs (ex. Do I exist) type of beliefs.

pool
05-10-2005, 03:44 AM
Lol yeah I meant to end that with a ? and not a . :smack:

groman
05-10-2005, 04:19 AM
The way I see it is that nihilism is about relevance. A nihilist wouldn't claim that the law of gravity is wrong, doesn't exist or whathave you, but rather that it is irrelevant, doesn't hold any value, and doesn't really matter one way or another. In fact, it's so irrelevant that the entire question if it's true or not is meaningless.

SentientMeat
05-10-2005, 04:25 AM
Nihilism (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/) is a universal negation, ie. a simple rule: "always answer no". Philosophically, it is arguably even more empty of substance than solipsism.

Hoodoo Ulove
05-10-2005, 09:52 AM
Nihilism (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/) is a universal negation, ie. a simple rule: "always answer no". Philosophically, it is arguably even more empty of substance than solipsism.You refer to metaphysical nihilism. Ethical and existential nihilism raise serious philosphical questions not so easily dismissed. Here (http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm)'s a good discussion of same.

Lemur866
05-10-2005, 10:24 AM
Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though?

The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn't really a nihilist.

vetbridge
05-10-2005, 10:26 AM
I disagree.

Hoodoo Ulove
05-10-2005, 10:38 AM
Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though?

The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn't really a nihilist.Yeah. I think this stuff is best dealt with through literature. Meursault and Raskolnikov bring it to life. Big downer, though.

Phnord Prephect
05-11-2005, 03:57 AM
Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though?

The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn't really a nihilist.


The first rule of nihilism club is, you don't talk about nihilism club! :confused:

smiling bandit
05-11-2005, 07:36 AM
I can't agree with the idea that Nihilism brings up any questions. BY definition, it's a pointless argument which has no useful things to say about the world or man's place within it.

Hoodoo Ulove
05-11-2005, 08:15 AM
I can't agree with the idea that Nihilism brings up any questions. BY definition, it's a pointless argument which has no useful things to say about the world or man's place within it.Do You say then, that existence has a purpose and meaning? That there are objective values? Prove it!

Cliffy
05-11-2005, 08:25 AM
So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn't really a nihilist.

True. Doesn't mean it's not correct, though.

--Cliffy

CynicalGabe
05-11-2005, 08:51 AM
Just watch your step, or they cut off your johnson!

Pushkin
05-11-2005, 09:15 AM
Just watch your step, or they cut off your johnson!

Yeah, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least its an ethos :)

smiling bandit
05-11-2005, 03:14 PM
Do You say then, that existence has a purpose and meaning? That there are objective values? Prove it!

Ah, but I didn't say that. I simply said that Nihilism, by defition, can add nothing and raises no questions. All answers in Nihilism (if not specifically "No") boil to down stating that there is no meaning to anything, that there are no worthwhile questions to ask.

However, I can "disprove" it in five sentences:

Nihilism fails by assuming what it sets out to prove: that eistence is meaningless. This may or may not be true in an arbitrary sense, but since by definition, any individual may ascribe meaning to his or her own life or actions. The fact that the Nihilist may not agree is irrelevant, as the meaning, however fascile, brutish, or simplistic, is the individual's to determine. Obviously, this may not hold true for all definitions of Nihilism, but again, by definition these cannot be truly Nihilistic. The assumption of a standard, however arbitrary, by which one can measure ones values means that a particular value and meaning has appeared: at the least, truth exists as a value.

Hoodoo Ulove
05-11-2005, 05:35 PM
Ah, but I didn't say that. I simply said that Nihilism, by defition, can add nothing and raises no questions.
Nihilism seeks to add nothing. If it raises, no questions, what are you answering?Nihilism fails by assuming what it sets out to prove: that eistence is meaningless.Nihilism needs to prove nothing. This may or may not be true in an arbitrary sense, but since by definition, any individual may ascribe meaning to his or her own life or actions. The fact that the Nihilist may not agree is irrelevant, as the meaning, however fascile, brutish, or simplistic, is the individual's to determine.You may ascribe meaning to a turd. This does not give it meaning.The assumption of a standard, however arbitrary, by which one can measure ones values means that a particular value and meaning has appeared: at the least, truth exists as a value.If an arbitrary standard gives value and meaning, then a diametrically opposite standard does so equally. Are both valid? I spit on your truth.

I can understand your choosing not to look into the abyss. Cowardice is easy and pleasant.

Antivenin
05-11-2005, 10:25 PM
The first rule of nihilism club is, you don't talk about nihilism club! :confused:
ROFLMAO!!

I needed that.

CynicalGabe
05-12-2005, 02:08 AM
ROFLMAO!!

I needed that.

Mine was funnier :(



:)

sewalk
05-12-2005, 04:07 AM
Mine was funnier

Yeah, but it would have been funnier if you worked in a marmot or something, dude. It really would have tied the whole joke together, ya know?

CynicalGabe
05-12-2005, 08:48 AM
Yeah, but it would have been funnier if you worked in a marmot know?

Shut the fuck up Donny. You're out of your element.

Antivenin
05-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Yeah, but it would have been funnier if you worked in a marmot or something, dude. It really would have tied the whole joke together, ya know?

You can call me Ray, and you can Jay, but you doesn't have to call me Johnson.

Antivenin
05-12-2005, 04:01 PM
You can call me Ray, and you can Jay, but you doesn't have to call me Johnson.

Shit fire.

You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, but you doesn't have to call me Johnson.

My mind moves faster than my fingers.

Well, actually, the jury is still out on that one.

smiling bandit
05-12-2005, 05:49 PM
Nihilism seeks to add nothing. If it raises, no questions, what are you answering?

Your assertion that I must prove objective value.


Nihilism needs to prove nothing.

Yes, it does. You claim to have an accurate depiction of the world. You claim this as an assertion. For your assertion to be valuable, meaningful ( ;) ), or accepted as correct in any sense other than your own opinion, you must logically demonstrate its correctness. If it exists in your opinion, then you are merely engaging in selfish, narcissistic viciousness.

More to the point, you are breaking the standard of behavior here by insisting I prove my argument while saying nothing about yours.



You may ascribe meaning to a turd. This does not give it meaning.

Why not? To a plant it could be life itself? To bacteria, it may be the whole world. That the world seems strange or even unpleasant to us does not mean it has no meaning.



If an arbitrary standard gives value and meaning, then a diametrically opposite standard does so equally. Are both valid? I spit on your truth.

*Yawn* :) Both do not have to be. You asserted, by way of Nihilism, that there is no meaning. I can prove that, whether you like it or not, there is meaning. Now, you might mean that there is no objective meaning or value. Here, you assume what you set out to prove: that there is no value. You cannot prove this, and as such it is nothing more than you opinion. If you don't believe in any form of value or truth, why would you waste your time on aboard devoted to debate? :D



I can understand your choosing not to look into the abyss. Cowardice is easy and pleasant.

I see. Disagreeing with Nihilism is cowardice? Interesting. You implicitly devalue coardice in that statement. If you devalue cowardice, then you simulateously implicitly value courage. If you value something, it must have some meaning to you. Which means your Nihilism is fundamentally an illusion you pretend to accept. There is no AByss; you merely choose not to see.

Don't get me wrong; I don't know you or whether or not you believe in Nihilism. I merely find the idea rather boring, contradictory, and pointless. When I say "You", I mnean it merely in the debating sense.

Hoodoo Ulove
05-13-2005, 09:00 AM
then you are merely engaging in selfish, narcissistic viciousness.Man, that's an essential part of nihilism, along with sitting in cafes drinking absinthe, being unkempt, shifting our bugged out eyes from side to side, etc.

"Nihilism" today exists primarily as a term of opprobrium, used by the right. The main tenets of nihilism, as I mentioned, the denial of intrinsic purpose and meaning of existence and objective values, are now so much a part of the modern worldview that they hardly bear mentioning, let alone call for proof.