I wish you could see you the way I see you.

[Campion]

My friend is beautiful, objectively speaking. She's also smart, funny, respectful, educated, adventurous, and only occasionally petty. When I say she's beautiful, I mean her interior as well as her exterior. But her mother has instilled in her an image of herself that bears no relationship to who she is.

Once, when she sprained her ankle, her mother told her it was because she was fat. She's five feet, five inches and her weight is in the "normal" range, according to the CDC. She looks lovely, but she doesn't see that.

At dinners, her mother will tell her, "don't eat that; you should be on a diet." Her mother told her sister, "I am ashamed to be seen with your sister because she's so fat."

In front of me once, her mother said, "I don't know if we can trust her to take care of things. She's not that smart." Actually, she is. Quite smart.

It hurts me every time I hear things like that. I try to help my friend see herself as I see her, but her mother's voice is so much louder than mine. All I can do, really, is go home and hug my mother, who loves me even when she thinks I'm wrong.

[Keapon Laffin]

What does your friend think of herself?

Yeah, I had a friend whose mom repeatedly said stuff like "We won't waste money sending him to university, he just isn't as smart as his sisters."
And she said these things right in front of him.
Ouch.
:mad:

[raz]

That's horrible. What does she say when her mother says things like that? Does she try to defend herself or does she even care? Hopefully she doesn't think her mother is speaking the truth.

[Campion]

What does your friend think of herself?On an intellectual level, she knows she's great, and she knows her mother is crazy. But I think that, even with the most secure person, there's always a private place where we are our own worst enemy, where we listen to the voices from our childhood and think that maybe they're right.

We were going out to dinner, driving through a pretty pedestrian-congested area to get to a parking garage. We passed a woman who appeared to me to be about 250-300 pounds. (I noticed her because she was with her friends, and someone must have said something funny, because she threw her head back to laugh. She had beautiful long hair, and the sun was just going down, so the colors -- the sky, the light, her hair -- were amazing, and I remember thinking, "if I had hair like hers . . . ")

My friend said, "I hope I'm not that fat." :eek:

I said, "I hope you know you're not." :(

She said, "Yeah . . . I guess so."

What does she say when her mother says things like that?She doesn't defend herself; that apparently just makes it worse. I haven't been friends with her very long; I'm only now being let into the family dynamic.

It breaks my heart because she is such a great person, and there's nothing I can do.

[Imbrium]

One of my friends is like that. Her mom is always telling her how fat she is. This girl is a foot taller than I am, and she weighs less than would be considered normal for me. She knows she's not fat, but she still worries about it a lot.

[Kitchen Wench]

At dinners, her mother will tell her, "don't eat that; you should be on a diet." Her mother told her sister, "I am ashamed to be seen with your sister because she's so fat."



Yeah, my mom said that to me once when I was about 11 or 12. And some other things. We had a pretty rotten relationship when I was a teenager because I started being nasty right back to her. I can't remember how many times I told her to go fuck herself. (which I'm ashamed of now)

Then I moved out. Things got better. She would occasionally overstep her bounds until I told her I'd have no contact with her unless she stopped being hateful. Now we have a pretty good relationship.

And by the way, I've always had a big weight problem. When I was a child, she was one of the many reasons why. Now I can't blame it on her. But I still find comfort in my loyal friend, food.

Dammit.

[Mangetout]

Obviously it's tricky and could easily backfire, but is there a possibility of reacting to the mother's comments with the most shocked and stunned of expressions and a comment such as "What a terrible thing to say about your own daughter!"?

[Excalibre]

Obviously it's tricky and could easily backfire, but is there a possibility of reacting to the mother's comments with the most shocked and stunned of expressions and a comment such as "What a terrible thing to say about your own daughter!"?
I just can't imagine what could possibly motivate a parent to say something like that. Why would they want to? This would very possibly be my instinctual response to the situation.

[Dunderman]

Yeah, that sucks. Some parents are just... unbelievable.

Tell your friend to pop over here and I'll make sure she feels attractive and appreciated. Mark my words.

[Anaamika]

Keep telling her what you think of her! From personal experience, this can leave trauma for years.

I once asked my mother, at 13, if I was pretty, while looking in the mirror. She came back with, "No, your nose is too big. You'll never be pretty."

At 17, 117 pounds, and slim as a whistle, she told me I was fat.

She constantly told me I didn't know how to make myself look pretty, take care of personal hygiene, that I had no common sense, and wasn't very bright anyway.

The sting of those words took a long time to leave. And I didn't have any friends like you. Keep it up, please!

[Campion]

Tell your friend to pop over here and I'll make sure she feels attractive and appreciated. Mark my words.
Well, aren't you just the giver? ;)

In reality, though, this is whole other can o' worms. She wants to be with someone, wants to be married and have children. And she's at an age where that's appropriate, where she ought to be focusing some effort on that. But, oh, the family.

My parents have pretty much been happy with anyone their children have brought home (exceptions for (a) the man who supervised my mother cooking T-giving dinner and told her what she was doing wrong, and (b) the off-handed racist, who refused to retract his racist comment when called on it). But my friend's parents are so negative that the list of qualities an acceptable man must have is as long as my arm. Or, to put it another way, there are maybe three men in the world who would be acceptable to the parentals.

Mangetout, unfortunately, for a host of reasons, I can't call the mother out. To do so is disrespectful and rude, and I don't want to create a burden on our friendship by having her mother hate me. What I'm supposed to do is agree with the mother, but do so in such a way that I'm actually disagreeing with her. It's all very subtle, and I'm no good at it (yet), but I'm willing to make the effort.

Anaamika, you're smart enough to know that your mother is full of it. :)

[Mangetout]

Mangetout, unfortunately, for a host of reasons, I can't call the mother out. To do so is disrespectful and rude, and I don't want to create a burden on our friendship by having her mother hate me. What I'm supposed to do is agree with the mother, but do so in such a way that I'm actually disagreeing with her. It's all very subtle, and I'm no good at it (yet), but I'm willing to make the effort.I understand; I've been in similar tricky situations myself; I find that 'Hmmmm....' can sometime work.

[Lord Ashtar]

I don't suppose you could respond with something like, "Yeah, must be lousy genetics."?

[Anaamika]

My parents have pretty much been happy with anyone their children have brought home (exceptions for (a) the man who supervised my mother cooking T-giving dinner and told her what she was doing wrong, and (b) the off-handed racist, who refused to retract his racist comment when called on it). But my friend's parents are so negative that the list of qualities an acceptable man must have is as long as my arm. Or, to put it another way, there are maybe three men in the world who would be acceptable to the parentals.

Anaamika, you're smart enough to know that your mother is full of it. :)

Oooo, I know where that is, too. The acceptable man is 2-5 years older than me, Punjabi, (born in Punjab), Hindu, can treat them with respect, has not lost his culture, makes a lot of money, and is ready to have lots of kids. :pukey smiley. Bleh! Except for the kids & the money bit, they want someone just like me! And I want to tell them: variety is the spice of life.

As for your second comment, thank you, but I wasn't always smart enough.

[Martha Medea]

My mother has said most of those things about me more times than I can remember.

I have challenged her about it and she insists it's for my own good. "I'm only trying to help!"

It's made me want to eat more, never use any make-up or wear the sort of clothes or hairstyles she thinks would look good on me. My Mum has said and done things to me that would send many people straight to a therapist.

You'd think she's stop now that I'm in my forties, and it's obvious I will never dress like a sloane ranger (preppie?) or be stick thin. When I point out that I think her approach has had the opposite effect she dismisses it completely, saying "it always has to be my fault, hasn't it".

The funny thing is that when I stayed at my mother-in-law's, who tries to make you eat second and third helpings and no matter how much you've eaten she still says "but you've hardly eaten a thing!" it made me lose my appetite, and I lost quite a lot of weight. When it comes to her own daughters, though, she is not blameless.

[ArrMatey!]

You might want to show this person this thread. Take it from someone who had this put upon them enough as a young child that it has held on the rest of their life; knowing that others see you differently can make a big difference.

[Kythereia]

Give her the biggest of big hugs for me. And stick out your tongue at the mother... or something... you know. :)

[Campion]

Oooo, I know where that is, too. The acceptable man is 2-5 years older than me, Punjabi, (born in Punjab), Hindu, can treat them with respect, has not lost his culture, makes a lot of money, and is ready to have lots of kids. :pukey smiley. Bleh! Except for the kids & the money bit, they want someone just like me! And I want to tell them: variety is the spice of life.
Your parents are down-right permissive compared to hers. Do they require that your prospective spouse's parents still be married to each other? (NB: death is no excuse.)

My friend is fortunate; her sister understands, too, and they are good support for each other in dealing with the parentals. The only problem is that there's two of them, so it's very easy to fall into the "good sister, bad sister" thing: "thin sister, fat sister; smart sister, dumb sister," etc. The sister married veerrrrry inappropriately (to a man who makes her laugh), which puts more pressure on my friend to marry the "right" man -- only, she doesn't want to marry the "right" man because she loves her sister and BIL and doesn't want to make them "the bad children."

This is all so complicated. I can be supportive, but ultimately, it's up to her to reject the lies and see herself as she is.

[Martha Medea]

The sad thing is that there is nothing one can say that would make mothers like these change their tune, or at least shut up.

Or is there? :D

[Clothahump]

Damn.

I would get in Mom's face and let her know just exactly how the cow ate the cabbage. Saying stuff like that about your kid is just sick and wrong, on so many different levels.

[Anaamika]

Your parents are down-right permissive compared to hers. Do they require that your prospective spouse's parents still be married to each other? (NB: death is no excuse.)



Divorce is heavily frowned-upon in India. The reason my parents have never mentioned this is it never occured to them that any good Indians would divorce.

Sorry, I can't see my parents in anyway as being permissive. In the end, everyone's gotta stand on their own feet, mentally as well as economically. If that means moving away, far away, and cutting off contact for a number of years (which is what I did), then so be it.

[Heart On My Sleeve]

Ugh. It amazes me how cruel and idiotic some parents can be.

Campion, probably the best thing you can do, as others have said, is tell her how you feel about her often and emphatically. It may just be one voice above the noise, but it's bound to have some influence.

[Campion]

Divorce is heavily frowned-upon in India. The reason my parents have never mentioned this is it never occured to them that any good Indians would divorce.

Sorry, I can't see my parents in anyway as being permissive. In the end, everyone's gotta stand on their own feet, mentally as well as economically. If that means moving away, far away, and cutting off contact for a number of years (which is what I did), then so be it.
You're right; I think your parents belong to the same club my friend's parents do.

There's really no solution (moving away isn't an option for her because of how it will affect her other relatives), it just frustrates me that she's treated this way. The good news is that, over the last couple of months, I can see that she's at least thinking more objectively about the advice/criticism she gets from the parentals.

And I do tell her I thinks she's awesome. 'Cause she is. If nothing else, I tell her, at least she has good taste in friends. :D

[ladybug]

I get so mad at parents who belittle their children. My supervisor has an adorable, sweet, funny 9-year-old daughter who lights up the room everytime she walks in. One day my supervisor was looking at a picture she had recently taken of her little girl and the daughter of a coworker. I commented on the cute photo. Her response?

"It'd be cuter if my ugly kid wasn't in it." :eek:

Campion, I'm glad your friend has someone to support her. Like you said, it's ultimately up to her to see herself for who she is, but every kind word will help.

[LurkMeister]

My girlfriend went through this; not only did her parents constantly tell her she was worthless, but when she got married her husband took over the job. She finally had enough and divorced him. When we met after several months of online conversation (during which time she frequently made deprecating remarks about her appearance) I found her attractive, pleasant, and fun to be with. I make a point of telling her this as often as I can. She's feeling better about herself now, which makes her even more fun to be with. I just hope she never realizes that she's too good for someone like me. :)

[fessie]

Gaah, reading your description of those parents just makes me sick!

Has she met your mother, Campion? Maybe that's why you're in her life, so that she can see a family of acceptance and love, rather than cruelty and criticism. It might open her eyes.

I have a dear friend whose parents behaved similarly ("T. is so lazy and slow!") the one time I met them, many years ago, and it was shocking. And a complete mischaracterization. I've been telling her ever since that her parents don't deserve her, that they're crazy and rude and I think they're jerks. Sometimes it seems to help, but I don't know if she'll ever manage to drown out their message. Living hundreds of miles away from them and succeeding in her own way (she's a published author & fairly wealthy) has made the biggest difference.

[irishgirl]

I have a friend with a mother like that. She went through a period of self-harming and anorexia. Nobody could quite work out why such a nice, pretty, smart girl would do that, until they met her mother.

This is a woman who told her blue, shivering, skeletal, anorexic daughter (in my hearing) that she shouldn't eat pizza because she was fat enough already.

Other lovely sentiments expressed by this hateful woman:

That my friend was too fat to wear the outfit she had chosen. That would have been difficult, becaused she weighed about 90lbs.

That there was no point applying to her chosen university, because she wouldn't get in, and anyway, they weren't going to financially support her unless she did accountancy.

That they weren't going to pay for her ticket to our Formal (prom) unless she had a guy to go with.

But that no man would ever ask her, because she was fat and ugly and stupid.

When she did get a date, he wasn't rich enough, smart enough or pretty enough to make them happy.

Thank goodness my friend came out, got a girlfriend, put on weight and doesn't see either of her parents any more. She's surprisingly well-adjusted, all things considered.

If your friend can't physically cut her mother out of her life, she needs to get to a point where nothing that her mother says gets through. It'll take a lot of work.

[Campion]

Has she met your mother, Campion? Maybe that's why you're in her life, so that she can see a family of acceptance and love, rather than cruelty and criticism. It might open her eyes.Yes, but it's never that simple. On an intellectual level, she knows her mom is a nutter. But on an emotional or instinctual level, it still gets through. Seeing my family helps her know intellectually that there are good families out there, but it doesn't help her turn her ears off to her mom. When you're 30 years old, some habits are ingrained.

If it were that easy, all those people who've been hurt in love would see a happy couple and know it was for them; all those who grew up in cruddy families would see a happy family and know it was for them. It's never simple.

(Digression: it's not like my family's perfect, either; my dad is also a nutter, but it mostly manifests in benign ways, and when we point them out to him, he laughs. But continues his nutty ways. And, fortunately, my sibs are great.)

But I keep telling her that she's not what her mom says, and that you're not destined to be what your family says. After all, my dad came from nothing -- a horrifically abusive family, kicked out of the house as a teenager, no real connections to anyone -- to become a man with a wife of nearly 40 years, some great kids ( :D ) who tolerate his nuttiness, and a huge extended family (my mom's kin). I think I'm making headway with my friend, though. Last night, she told me that she's started tuning her mom out.