Star Wars nitpick: How could Darth Vader know . . .

[BrainGlutton]

This is so much part of the collective unconscious now that I see no need for a spoiler box: In The Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader reveals to Luke Skywalker, "I am your father!" But how could Vader know that, and not know that Princess Leia -- a much more prominent figure who came to his attention much sooner -- was his daughter?

Or perhaps he did know, as early as A New Hope, but was so deeply corrupted by the Dark Side that he was still willing to arrest her, torture her, and raise no objection when Grand Moff Tarkin ordered her execution?

[Morbo]

Midichlorians.

Seriously, I had a lively conversation with my friend about that after we saw ROTS. His reasoning was that since Leah herself didn't know, she didn't have the force in her. IOW, only when you are aware of the Force yourself do you project it outwardly. My argument was that if that were the case, how did Qui Gon recognize the Force in Anakin, since Anakin didn't know?

[chrisk]

On a far more pragmatic note... Luke was still using the 'skywalker' name. Doesn't exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. :)

[BrainGlutton]

On a far more pragmatic note... Luke was still using the 'skywalker' name. Doesn't exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. :)

For all we know, in the SW universe "Skywalker" is as common a name as "Smith."

[MovieMogul]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why Obi-Wan doesn't change his name. After all, Luke may have been relatively "safe" because Vader didn't know he existed, but surely there would've been an intergalactic APB for one of the last surviving Jedi (especially the one who deformed Vader so badly). How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis--especially one that suspiciously turned up on Anakin's home planet?

[Lute Skywatcher]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why Obi-Wan doesn't change his name.Perhaps he did. Seems only Leia and the Skywalkers referred to him as "Kenobi".

[Lute Skywatcher]

Until he met up with Vader, that is.

[Robot Arm]

How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis...Kenobi = Jones

[Tamex]

No, no--the Star Wars phone book lists people by their first name instead of their last. Hence, Obi Wan hides by changing his name to Ben. And Darth doesn't even know Luke's first name, so, no luck there. Therefore, it was safe to give Luke the last name of Skywalker.

As for Leia...c'mon! Anyone expect a mere female to have Jedi powers? Female Jedi seem to be seriously missing, especially among major characters. No wonder Darth never suspected a thing.

[Soapbox Monkey]

Vader doesn't sense Leia for the same reason Luke doesn't have any Force memories of Padme. Parallels are drawn between father and son, mother and daughter.

Luke has a desire for adventure, is arrogant, and is always spending his time looking towards the future rather than keeping his mind in the present, where it should be focused. In this respect he is like his father. His journey becomes a quest to redeem Anakin.

Leia grows up to be a strong woman with a passion for politics, much like her mother. She had a Force connection with Padme and was able to retain "Just images really. Feelings." about her mother.

At least that's what I took from it.

[ExTank]

This is so much part of the collective unconscious now that I see no need for a spoiler box: In The Empire Strikes Back, Darth Vader reveals to Luke Skywalker, "I am your father!" But how could Vader know that, and not know that Princess Leia -- a much more prominent figure who came to his attention much sooner -- was his daughter?

Or perhaps he did know, as early as A New Hope, but was so deeply corrupted by the Dark Side that he was still willing to arrest her, torture her, and raise no objection when Grand Moff Tarkin ordered her execution?

I think that, Force Powers aside, Leia went by the name Organa. I'm gonna spoiler box this as it contains Ep. III material:

Vader was told by Palpatine that Padme died by Vader's own hand at the end of RotS, so Vader never knew that he had children, assuming they died with Padme.

Accordingly, after the Battle of Yavin, I'm assuming Imperial agents winkeled out of the Rebellion Luke's name (Skywalker), reported to Palpatine, who put 2 + 2 together.

In TESB, when Vader and the Emperor converse, and Paplatine brings up the "son of Skywalker" bit, Vader likewise puts 2 + 2 together.

Why he then didn't realize that Palpatine lied to him at the end of RotS is beyond me; another one of Lucas' glaring continuity errors.

Or maybe Vader put it down to Obi-Wan's craftiness. I dunno. In any case, since Vader didn't know until TESB that he had issue who survived, let alone fraternal twins, there was no reason for him to be probing and feeling via The Force for familial connections when he confronted Leia on her ship at the beginning of Ep. IV.

Just my best guess at Lucas' mess.

[Marley23]

Why he then didn't realize that Palpatine lied to him at the end of RotS is beyond me; another one of Lucas' glaring continuity errors.
You could argue it doesn't matter because he knows he belongs to the Emperor, and has for 20 years at that point. But you're still correct.

[MEBuckner]

On a far more pragmatic note... Luke was still using the 'skywalker' name. Doesn't exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. :)
For all we know, in the SW universe "Skywalker" is as common a name as "Smith."
"Luke! I am your...uh, lessee...first cousin...uh...twice removed. No. Wait...Second cousin, once removed!

Join me! Together we will rule the galaxy! As, uh, you know, blood relatives."

[sewalk]

"Luke! I am your...uh, lessee...first cousin...uh...twice removed. No. Wait...Second cousin, once removed!Don't.

That joke was done much better in Spaceballs:
Dark Helmet: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
Lone Starr: What's that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing!

[middleman]

Maybe Vader sensed Luke's presence when Luke used the force.

He did blow up the Death Star RIGHT IN VADER's face!

[Ethilrist]

Just saw episode III last night...
Anakin's journey to the dark side is orchestrated every single step of the way by one thing: Lies (and half-truths) Palpatine told him. Anakin fell for every single word that came out of Palpatine's mouth hook, line and sinker, including the one about Amidala dying. So, how did Palpatine know she was dead? He had a spy in Organa's organization. How did Vader not know Leia existed? Palpatine didn't tell him about her.

[spectrum]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why Obi-Wan doesn't change his name. After all, Luke may have been relatively "safe" because Vader didn't know he existed, but surely there would've been an intergalactic APB for one of the last surviving Jedi (especially the one who deformed Vader so badly). How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis--especially one that suspiciously turned up on Anakin's home planet?

While it was clearly conquered by the Empire at some point, at the time that Kenobi takes refuge as a hermit on Tatooine, that system is not part of the Republic. Vader would have no registry of the population from which to search.

Ben could have easily used his Jedi powers to exist mostly unnoticed except as that "crazy old man out in the desert" during the Dark Times.

[Orual]

For all we know, in the SW universe "Skywalker" is as common a name as "Smith."

Nope, the "Smith" of the Star Wars universe is "Antilles".

[Apos]

I would guess that realizing that Palpatine had lied to him was EXACTLY one of the things that started Vader's journey from cold servant to conflicted father. Even in ESB, Vader seems more rebelious, seeking to ally with his son rather than serve his master. He never mentions the lie, but that may be on his mind.

[rocking chair]

as far as the emp. knew, padme had died while still pregnant. he did not know the children were born. only yoda, bail, obi-wan, owen and beru knew. i would bet bail never told his wife were leia came from. prob. just that her parents were dead.

vader knew the emp. had lied to him after he became vader. by then it was too late for him to turn against the emp. the emp. was all he had left.

once he finds out that he has a son..... then he has a reason to go against the emp.

vader senses the force in luke when he is in the trench against the death star. luke is connected into the force when he has his first instruction from kenobi.

jinn senses the force in anakin because he is using the force as well. anakin has been connected for a while, having visions, fixing things, piloting.

leia hasn't tapped into the force.

[Marley23]

once he finds out that he has a son..... then he has a reason to go against the emp.
Although until the very end of Jedi, he doesn't.

[Lissa]

I saw RoTS the other day, and because parents apparenly believed that their toddlers would appreciate the movie as much as they would and that the other members of the audience really didn't mind their crying, squealing and incredibly loud chatter, I missed something which may have been important.

What were Padme's dying words? Was it instructions on what to do with the twins?

[Martin Hyde]

@Lissa Padme names the children

I think some of us may be giving Vader a bit too much credit. There are probably things he realizes the Emperor lied about pretty soon after he donned the Vader mask. And he definitely knew the Emperor had deliberately deceived him in TESB. By that time though (hell, by the end of Ep. III really) Vader had come to the point where he was lustful of power over almost everything else. I'd say once Padme died there was nothing left in his mind but desire for power. Eventually he planned to overthrow the Emperor, the Emperoro probably knew this as well. That *is* the way of the Sith and I'd say within a few years Vader was so far gone to the dark side the only thing that could ever bring him back was love for his son Luke, but that couldn't even become an issue for roughly 20 years.

[Marley23]

What were Padme's dying words?
"There is still good in him. I know it." I think that was exact.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

Thanks. It sounded like mursh mursh murble moo to me.

[Cartooniverse]

For all we know, in the SW universe "Skywalker" is as common a name as "Smith."

I think you meant ..... " Skywalker is as common a name as Sith ", didn't you?

;)

[smiling bandit]

You didn't actually miss much.

Padme was half-dead by then and it was hard for everyone to make it out. Which was deliberate

[dangermom]

Oh, thanks, I saw it last night and didn't catch it either, despite the lack of toddlers around us. I have a complaint though:
I'm kind of annoyed that she just lost the will to live and died, despite the babies. It's romantic and all, but as a formerly pregnant person, all my instincts were yelling "you can't die for no reason, you've got babies to take care of!" I always thought that she would go into hiding on Alderaan with Leia (thus producing fuzzy memories) and die after a year or two.

The Force mother/daughter father/son connection makes about as much sense as anything else Lucas invented halfway through, though. I'll accept it. Anyhow, as for who knew what when,
I figured the Emperor couldn't fail to know about Padme's death, what with the big funeral on his home planet and all, but that the births had been kept secret, to be figured out later.

[Ethilrist]

You didn't actually miss much.

Padme was half-dead by then and it was hard for everyone to make it out. Which was deliberate
Oh. I guess they'll clear that up in the next movie.

Wait a minute...

[rocking chair]

he was trying to get to luke in esb. luke got away from him.

[RickJay]

Vader doesn't sense Leia for the same reason Luke doesn't have any Force memories of Padme.
I guess "Force memories" is the new term for "continuity errors." :)

Hey, I've got one.

How did Darth Vader know that it was Luke Skywalker who'd blown up the Death Star?

At the beginning of "The Empire Strikes Back" Vader is pursuing Skywalker. But how does he even know who Luke is? It's not like he had LUKE SKYWALKER'S X-WING printed on the side of his ship.

Of course, I am sure the Empire would have many spies and moles in the Alliance who could sniff that info out... but then how could they possibly not have known the Rebels were on Hoth? There's no way the Rebels could keep hidden as much as they do if the Empire had a decent spy network... but if they don't, where did Vader learn about Luke?

[Chairman Pow]

I guess "Force memories" is the new term for "continuity errors." :)

Hey, I've got one.

How did Darth Vader know that it was Luke Skywalker who'd blown up the Death Star?

There was the big ceremony where Luke & co. got the medals.