(Gently) criticise my attempt at a website

[GorillaMan]

This is something borne out of necessity, at short notice. I don't really know what I'm doing, but know more than anybody else around me, so I ended up producing this in *cough splutter* Frontpage.

I know there's weaknesses - but I want to know which are the weakest! Especially as I will be adding more content, so I'd like to get things correct now.

In particualr, do the Frontpage-default navigation bars give anybody problems? These are something that are obviously useful, but I wouldn't be surprised if they foul up a bit too easily. However, I've not found any issues with various browsers that I've been able to try.

I'd also like to get things to work with anybody using anything 'non-standard', systems, such as braille etc., but I've no idea where to start. In general, any and all suggestions welcome, on all levels - just be gentle, please!

Here's the URL: http://www.cliffordroadshelter.org.uk

[Imasquare]

Its clean and simple, and it works. Quite good really.

I have seen far too many flashy graphics heavy web sites that look great but are difficult to use because they are not laid out intuitivley. Yours isn't flashy but it has the most important feature of any web site: it is easy to use. Well done.

By the way, you may well get some evangelical purists posting here simply to rubbish frontpage. Ignore them.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

GAH!! Eyes...goggles..etc. :D


Seriously. It's nice and clean. The buttons make the lower part of the site look off-centered, though.

[Burnt Sugar]

It's fine. I'd make the banner a bit bigger though, to fill all the way across the screen. Does that make sense? It makes sense in my head...

[Hanna]

I like it too, nice and simple. The only thing I might change is maybe put links at the bottoms of the pages too. For example, I read through the pages "Shelter", "Life At Home", and "Air Raids" and it would be handy to be able to click on the next link without having to go back to the top of the page to find it. I am super lazy, yes. :)

[Queen Bruin]

The California judge gives you a 9.5 for quick loading and ease of use!

[Caught@Work]

As others have mentioned nice and clean.

It's a little too grey for my personal liking although I can see where the color comes from.

Your banner will fit 800x600 and 1024x768 so I wouldn't make it any wider.

It's set up using % widths which means it should size to fit screen nicely.

I am not keen on the Trebuchet MS style font and would prefer the fonts to all be the same. You have a mixture of Arial and Trebuchet MS. Just looks a little funny when it changes.

I'd dump the page last updated bit, move it somewhere more appropriate or have it consistent across pages. It looks a little lost all the way down the bottom there. Almost as if it shouldn't be there.

Some of the text sizes across pages could be a little more consistent too. Moving from the home page to the location page, the change in font size is a little annoying.

Ignore people who tell you not to use Frontpage. If that's what you use, that's what you use.

Well done.

[hawkeyejo]

It looks great. It's neat and simple and most importantly, easy to navigate. An enhancement would be to add a little contrast between the colour of the buttons and the background - the page is a bit too gray. The format is great, but maybe some colour change would help it make more appealing aesthetically.

Also, kudos on getting Frontpage to do this. I'm miserable at Frontpage (and hence have no personal web page). Oh, another thing, though this may be my computer and not anything to do with the web-page - the text could be a little larger in some places (like the photograph descriptions).






Hope I wasn't too critical :confused:

[Kamino Neko]

I think the buttons would look better flat, personally. And possibly the banner could be adjusted so it's not as sharp between the banner and page background - blend to the background colour at the bottom of the banner.

Those are very minor pickiness. Aside from that, it's quite good.

Don't make the banner wider. It's perfect as it is. I hate banners that extend all the way across the screen.

[roger thornhill]

Some of the text sizes across pages could be a little more consistent too. Moving from the home page to the location page, the change in font size is a little annoying.My only adverse comment regards font size - keep it consistent at the larger size (even in the timetable for opening hours).

Nice job. Interesting subject.

[Hunter Hawk]

A little bit of additional nitpicking:

When the user navigates away from the home page, you put an additional "Home" button in the bar on the left, which shifts the other buttons down. Then, when the user returns to the home page, you remove the "Home" button. The button appearance/disappearance is weird, and having buttons change position is a Bad Thing (you want to have the buttons stay in one place to support muscle memory).

You highlight the button for the page that the user is on, but there's not enough visual contrast.

Consider merging the "Visiting" and "Location" sections. Remember, the user is trying to figure out how he can get to the museum, but you're forcing him to go to two different pages to complete the task.

The application title bar shows the name of the page that the user is on (e.g., "Location"). This is a small enough web site that you don't really need to do that--just use the "Clifford Road..." text.

Do you want to provide separate contact info for the webmaster?

Provide better alt text for the banner--use the "Clifford Road..." text, not just "Home".

You have a big chunk of blank space at the upper left; it's particularly noticeable if the user maximizes the window on a big monitor. Try moving the banner and navigation buttons up and to the left and see if that improves it.

Copy-edit the text (e.g., "use" on the Contact page; some punctuation issues)

On the Visiting page, see if you can get tighter leading between the lines for each month, but keep the larger space between the months. As it is, the lines just kinda visually run into each other.

On the Visiting page, under "Admission prices", what are "Concessions"? If the usage here is the same as the American usage (i.e., food & drink), there's no need to have that info on the web page. If you really want to have it there, at least move it out of the "Admission" section, since it's not actually an admission price. (If the term means something else, of course, please disregard the previous comment.)

On the Contact page, see if you can clear the fields when the user first places focus in the field. Currently, the user has to place focus in the field, then click a few times to clear your sample text.

On the Contact page, you have the Telephone field highlighted in yellow. This typically indicates a required field, but I see no real reason why that info should be required.

On the Contact page, provide labels for the fields ("Name", etc.) outside the fields themselves.

On the Contact page, if I type in a field, then navigate to a different page and return to the Contact page, the info is cleared. This is very low-pri, but it might be nice if you could persist the information.

[mza662]

As a code geek I expected the code of this to be nasty, but it's actually not so bad coming from Frontpage.

And a few comments on the website design:
The lack of contrast and the grey make it a bit dull.
It looks good in 800x600 but the bigger it goes the more the layout seems a bit weird, i know thats not very constructive but it's hard to put my finger on.
There could be more distinction between the navigation, header and content.

These are only small thing though, the site itself is easy to use and it's a helluva lot better to be minimal than over the top, and you've done that well.

[Hunter Hawk]

On the Contact page, see if you can clear the fields when the user first places focus in the field. Currently, the user has to place focus in the field, then click a few times to clear your sample text.

On the Contact page, provide labels for the fields ("Name", etc.) outside the fields themselves.
BTW, if you implement the second suggestion in the quote above, you can just delete the default text and the first suggestion will then be a nonissue.

[GorillaMan]

Many many thanks for everybody's comments so far - some suggestions are already being implemented :) ....

The comments about colours & graphics are very useful. I'd being fiddling about with these indecisively, because it's a tricky balance between finding a utilitarian appearance suitable to the subject, without being just plain boring! I'll lighten things up a bit when I get a chance.

When the user navigates away from the home page, you put an additional "Home" button in the bar on the left, which shifts the other buttons down.
I've put the 'home' button on the home page, as a stop-gap measure until I can sort something better out - but it comes up as a valid link rather than as the current page. Anybody know how to change this?

Consider merging the "Visiting" and "Location" sections. Remember, the user is trying to figure out how he can get to the museum, but you're forcing him to go to two different pages to complete the task.
Good point....I was in two minds about this, because I was worried about having too much information on one page. I've tried merging them, and would appreciate any comments about how that page now looks.


You have a big chunk of blank space at the upper left; it's particularly noticeable if the user maximizes the window on a big monitor. Try moving the banner and navigation buttons up and to the left and see if that improves it.
I've moved the body up, which has improved this a bit - how does it look to you now? (Bigger changes to this will mean rethinking how I've set up the tables, so I'm going to leave it for the moment)

Copy-edit the text (e.g., "use" on the Contact page; some punctuation issues)
:smack: Please anybody who notices other things I've missed, please say so!

On the Visiting page, under "Admission prices", what are "Concessions"?
It's a British PC-ism for 'senior citizens & anybody else who we're not going to charge full-price for'

On the Contact page, you have the Telephone field highlighted in yellow. This typically indicates a required field, but I see no real reason why that info should be required.
What browser/system is this on? I haven't noticed this so far (and don't see it now in IE or Firefox)

On the Contact page, if I type in a field, then navigate to a different page and return to the Contact page, the info is cleared. This is very low-pri, but it might be nice if you could persist the information.
Good point - anybody know how to do this?!

[Imasquare]

Good point - anybody know how to do this?!Persisting info between page calls can be done with ASP (Active Server Pages) or with PHP. There are probably others as well. I know nothing about PHP programming but a lot about ASP programming.

First, you would need to have your site hosted on a server that supports Active Server Pages, then you would need to change the extension of your page from .htm/.html to .asp. After that you can embed VB Script code into your HTML code to retrieve the page values.

I can show you how to do the coding but you would need to sort out a web host who supports ASP.

[6 6 6]

I like the greyness of it --- reminiscent of the times.

Can you define who is entitled to a "Concession" and what constitutes a "Family" ?

Did you consider getting a .museum domain name rather than the .org.uk ?

You may have persuaded me to visit next time I'm in the area!

[GorillaMan]

I can show you how to do the coding but you would need to sort out a web host who supports ASP.
Thanks - I may be in touch about this :) (I just checked, and ASP support won't cost much more than we're paying as it is)

Can you define who is entitled to a "Concession" and what constitutes a "Family"?
I suppose we should - but on the other hand, we're fairly flexible about it on the door (I don't think we actually have a fixed definition for the family price!)

Did you consider getting a .museum domain name rather than the .org.uk?
Apart from .org.uk being cheap, I have a personal dislike of 'new-style' suffixes. And .org.uk is pretty much standard for museums - if it's good enough for the Imperial War Museum, it's good enough for us ;)

You may have persuaded me to visit next time I'm in the area!
[Monty Burns]
Excellent
[/Monty Burns]

[Mangetout]

I like it; uncluttered, clean and sharp, as the others have said.

Just not sure about those buttons though - it's a personal choice, but I'd be looking for a more 'retro' or vintage feel to them myself, and perhaps a subtler mouseover effect.

Again, a personal choice, but another thing I'd do, on pages where you have a multiple images, one below the other, with accompanying text, is to use an alternating layout so that you have:
text<>image
image<>text
text<>image
image<>text

[Tabby_Cat]

There's a lot of... blank... on that page. Perhaps you could frame the newsposts, maybe by subtly changing the background colour, or maybe a bit of framing? (look at the quick reply box for an example of what I'm talking about)

[js_africanus]

This bit: "Hidden beneath a Suffolk school playground, among quiet residential streets, the shelter provides a vivid picture of life during World War Two," I don't like.

It's just not a good opening sentence. I'd go w/ something like:

The Clifford Road Air Raid Shelter Museum is built around a working WWII bomb shelter in Ipswitch, England. Sealed after the war, the shelter was largely forgotten until its rediscovery in 1989, and so it offers a genuine look into one important, and terrifying, aspect of British life during the war.

Yadda, yadda.

When I read that I know exactly what the page is all about and what I'm going to see if I explore the page instead of going off to look at porn. It's quick, direct, and to the point. It could probably be written much better than I managed to do; however, I hope you get the idea.

Otherwise, the site looked good to me. Simple—no useless graphics and junk slowing up the download; not everybody has high-speed modems, you know. Obviously, I would like to see more photos, more stories, more intersting stuff, along with links to related things. But for a quick job on short notice, I say Kudos to you!

[World Eater]

I was expecting something that would make me cringe, instead I think it's a great simple layout. I would have suggested stretching the top logo a little bit too.

[GorillaMan]

This bit: "Hidden beneath a Suffolk school playground, among quiet residential streets, the shelter provides a vivid picture of life during World War Two," I don't like.

It's just not a good opening sentence. I'd go w/ something like:

The Clifford Road Air Raid Shelter Museum is built around a working WWII bomb shelter in Ipswitch, England. Sealed after the war, the shelter was largely forgotten until its rediscovery in 1989, and so it offers a genuine look into one important, and terrifying, aspect of British life during the war.

Yadda, yadda.

Thanks - good suggestion. It's easy to get bogged down with stuff you're familiar with, and it's good to have someone else say 'hold on, tell us what you mean!' :) I'll have a think about the opening stuff.

Obviously, I would like to see more photos, more stories, more intersting stuff, along with links to related things.
Oh, don't worry, we can supply them ;) I wanted to be sure I'd got things right with the general setup, before getting carried away with content. And I'll have to decide how to set up galleries 'n' stuff....suggestions (and forewarnings) welcome...

[ouryL]

Congratulations

It is one of the better ones that I've seen.
It's probably because there were no popups or blinking banners. :p

[Mangetout]

More content = good, but make sure that you don't present so much information on the website that people feel they have learned everything they need to know without coming to visit.

[GorillaMan]

It is one of the better ones that I've seen.
It's probably because there were no popups or blinking banners. :p
Maybe I could add some sound effect..... :p

[Fromage A Trois]

A tiny thing I noticed was that when you go to a page with more content on it, for instance "Visiting", as you scroll down there's a big gap on the left. The margin on the left could maybe be a little smaller.

The only other thing was the navigation buttons - I like the grey colour scheme but the black text on the dark grey background (particularly when you mouse over) is quite hard to read. Perhaps white or light grey, rather than black, text would be more legible.

Would anyone be terribly offended if I asked you to criticise my website?

[Clothahump]

Looks good to me. Believe me, I've seen a helluva lot worse!!

[Hunter Hawk]

Good point....I was in two minds about this, because I was worried about having too much information on one page. I've tried merging them, and would appreciate any comments about how that page now looks.
Looks OK to me. Check the markup for the headings you use, though. (e.g., the "Maps" heading is left-aligned, and then the "Group visits" is centered)

I've moved the body up, which has improved this a bit - how does it look to you now? (Bigger changes to this will mean rethinking how I've set up the tables, so I'm going to leave it for the moment)
I don't really notice a change. Do you maybe want to try using stylesheets rather than tables for layout, though? (I have more experience in GML than HTML, so I firmly believe that Thou Shalt Not Use Tables For Layout.)

Another option (disclaimer: I am *not* a web designer)--For the banner, try making the graphics that you use on either side of the heading the same width as the navigation buttons plus some border space. Then have a fixed area on the left that fits the left-hand banner graphic and the navigation buttons; have a similar fixed area on the right that just has the right-hand banner graphic, and when the user resizes the window, the main area of the page (with the banner text and the text in the page) resizes.


What browser/system is this on? I haven't noticed this so far (and don't see it now in IE or Firefox)
WinXP Pro, IE 6.0.2900.2180.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519. That being said, I don't see any highlighting in any field in your revised page.

[Declan]

I'd also like to get things to work with anybody using anything 'non-standard', systems, such as braille etc., but I've no idea where to start. In general, any and all suggestions welcome, on all levels - just be gentle, please!

Those four buttons on the side ,would probably look better side by side on top , below the banner

[ Home ] [ The Shelter ] [Visitor ] [Contact ]

instead of

[ Home ]
[ The Shelter ]
[Visitor ]
[Contact ]

Sorry if it looks mangled but thats what I meant.

As someone already pointed out , the site looks stark and dreary , which is fine if thats the look you wanted , myself I would probably add WW2 propaganda wallpaper and adjust the colors of the buttons.

Sound would be nice , an air raid siren that has a button to turn it off , would be a good addition.

Other than that , the special open week thing , should be hyperlinked to another page, your need to know information should be front and center ,rather than having someone scroll down to find out about it.

I also would think a nice addition would be an RSS feed that sends current info and promotions out , with a hyperlink back , to the promotion in question.

Declan

[zweisamkeit]

Sound would be nice , an air raid siren that has a button to turn it off , would be a good addition.



Oh God, is that a whoosh? I hope so. That would be the single most annoying idea I've ever seen/heard for a website, and I've been online for a long time.

[Declan]

Oh God, is that a whoosh? I hope so. That would be the single most annoying idea I've ever seen/heard for a website, and I've been online for a long time.

Not really a whoosh , he did ask for suggestions , and it would have fit the motif of the site. You can add anything to you site that you want , its just only polite to add the off button for people who don't want to hear it.

Declan

[GorillaMan]

I've made a few simple changes from the suggestions here - reporting them in partially to not confuse any newcomers to the thread ;)

I've moved the navigation to a central position up top. Having several observations that things looked off-centre was useful - clearly I was expecting where to look next.

Regarding the yellow fields on the Contacts page - there's nothing in the basic setup that is indicating this. I'm suspecting a bug, and I'll make it a priority to replace this with a cgi setup or similar, where I know what's actually happening (any offers of help, or links to useful 'so you want to make a form' pages, welcomed :) )

Hunter Hawk - I can understand tables, while I've no idea how to use style sheets for layout. So I'll pretty much stick to what I've got, even if it's more work (or less versatile).

Declan (and others) - yes, I agree it's too dull at the moment. I'll certainly use colours in frames etc to outline blocks of content, etc. Ajd a little bit of propganda material is a good suggestion (although we obviously have to be careful about copyright). On the other hand, no, I'm not going to include a siren sound! The RSS feed is a nice idea - but probably would be more trouble than it's worth. We don't have many special events, so an opt-in email newsletter would probably be the better option.

For the banner, try making the graphics that you use on either side of the heading the same width as the navigation buttons plus some border space. Then have a fixed area on the left that fits the left-hand banner graphic and the navigation buttons; have a similar fixed area on the right that just has the right-hand banner graphic, and when the user resizes the window, the main area of the page (with the banner text and the text in the page) resizes..
I like the principle of this idea, but don't know how to do it - is their any way to 'cetrally crop' or stretch the centre section of the banner in use at the moment, to suit the section between the graphics on each side?

More content = good, but make sure that you don't present so much information on the website that people feel they have learned everything they need to know without coming to visit.
An excellent point. And, in a roundabout way, one I've been making to other people who have ideas about what should be on the website (without knowing how to use 'this internet' themselves).

[GorillaMan]

Aha - I've found out about the yellow fields. It's due to the Google toolbar, showing fields it will save information for, or something...

[matt]

I don't like it.

Not only is there no monkey to shoot, but I never win a prize!


Seriously, very nice job.

[ouryL]

Simple is best, as I said before, you probably don't have to change it.
But if you do decide to get fancier...ask us again! :p