PSA: When the traffic light is out, treat it like a stop sign.

[Podkayne]

Based on my experiences during a power outage yesterday, 99.99% of the population is ignorant of this traffic law, so I thought I'd remind all Dopers of what you shoulda learned in driver's ed.

If the light is not functioning, either because the power is out, or because it's broken:

Do not try to pretend that the light is still working, and showing a green light that only you can see.

Do not assume that Total Traffic Anarchy has been declared, and stop and go when you feel like it.

Do not sit there like a lump waiting for the light to come back on.

Treat it like a stop sign. Come to a complete stop, yield to vehicles on your right, yield to oncoming traffic if you're turning left, etc. And of course be extra alert for drivers who don't know what they're doing.

[Asimovian]

Shouldn't need to be said, and yet, I've had multiple people run through intersections in front of me when the signal's out. Sorry to hear you've had the same experience.

*sigh*

[Dazzling White Diamonds]

Yes! Thank you for this!!!

[UncleBeer]

Or more technically, a four-way stop sign.

[Troy McClure SF]

Or more technically, a four-way stop sign.

You assume people know what to do with four-way stop signs.

Man, we've had a few power outages in SF over the past few years, and in two of the biggest ones, I was driving either on Market or on Van Ness. Just crazy. Interesting if you like people-watching, but just crazy.

[Rufus Xavier]

This drives me nuts in Los Angeles.

What ends up happening is that instead of the proper clockwise rotation of cars, we get East- and Westbound cars going at once, then, in turn, North- and Southbound cars going at once, which makes it almost impossible to turn left in this situation.

Idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the '94 earthquake knocked out power to huge sections of the city, driving around town the next morning was just about the most stressful situation I've ever been in.

[UncleBeer]

You assume people know what to do with four-way stop signs.
Yeah, I guess you gotta do that. And sometimes it doesn't even seem safe they know what to do at a functioning stoplight.

[lieu]

Expecting your average driver to act appropriately sounds like a Vonage commercial just waiting to happen.

[ivylass]

We had a lot of this last summer after the hurricanes had blown through but before the crews got out to fix the lights. It seemed that when there was a cop car parked at the intersection, people got the idea, but woe to you if you were on a feeder road trying to get onto a main road with no light.

[Podkayne]

Or more technically, a four-way stop sign.Unless it's a three-way or five-way intersection. :dubious:

[Rodd Hill]

Oh, and at a four-way stop, when you have the right-of-way, don't blithely wave me through, just to be the nice guy--I ain't a-goin'. If there is an accident as a result, guess who'll take the blame. You have the right-of-way, just take it and damn well GO!

[BiblioCat]

...at a four-way stop, when you have the right-of-way, don't blithely wave me through...
Oh, this one makes me crazy. There's a four-way stop in my neighborhood that I almost always turn left at. Whenever there's someone else there when I get there, they nearly always try to give up their ROW and wave me through. I just sit there and shake my head at them and wave back at them. I don't understand why they want me to go first when they so clearly have the ROW.

I just know there's some other message board somewhere with people complaining that they try to be nice and let people go ahead, but they never do.
"I try to wave people on at four-way stops but they never go. What gives?"
:rolleyes:

[Cat Whisperer]

And while we're doing PSA's about four-way stops, the correct method is come to a COMPLETE STOP, look around, and anyone stopped before you goes before you. If you stop at the same time, the person on the right goes. A COMPLETE STOP means that your car is not rolling at all, and is REQUIRED at ALL stop signs and red lights. This is my latest driving peeve - people are barely even totally pausing now.

[jimpatro]

Seconded. People think that if the car in front stops, they get to follow them through. Hey, they just "stopped" didn't they? :rolleyes:

[Manduck]

Those rolling stops are especially bad at four-way stops, though, because it requires you to become a mind reader and try to figure out whether he thinks he stopped before or after you did :mad:

[Eureka]

The place where someone with the ROW tried to wave me through so I could make a left hand turn recently is a corner with a stoplight where my direction has a green arrow- which shows up after the through traffic green light goes away. I drive through the intersection regularly so I know this. I keep my eyes open for enough of a break in traffic to turn left during the green arrow, but some times I know I just need to be patient until the after the light turns and the green arrow shows up. Well, this person tried to wave me through. I opted not to confuse people by going through and eventually the other driver came through the intersection. Then I made my left hand turn. Altogether, it didn't take long- but I'd have gotten through sooner if the other driver had just gone straight ahead and not waited while trying to wave me through.


More generally my peeve with 4-way stops is this: If car A goes through the intersection, the next car to go should not be car B- which was immediately behind car A. Figuring out who does get the right to go next can be tricky- but if there are cars lined up in multiple directions, the right of way should rotate around the intersection- even if most of the cars are coming from the same direction.

[KGS]

Unless it's a three-way or five-way intersection. :dubious:
How about a six-way intersection? (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=beverly+hills+ca&ll=34.080062,-118.411696&spn=0.005289,0.007564&t=k&hl=en) Yes, there's a stop sign there.

Also, when there's a police officer directing traffic at a broken stop light and he points at you to go...GO! Don't just sit there watching him make larger and stronger gestures until his arms are about to pop out of their sockets! (When I told this to my grandma, she said, "Well you know, it's the Valley, nobody here speaks English anymore." I said, "Yeah, I agree, it's...umm...WAIT A MINUTE!")

Also, a Yield sign means YIELD...more specifically, if nobody's coming, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO STOP! Especially when the exit ramp empties into its own dedicated lane and the "Yield" sign is merely a formality!

I could go on about the time my left blinker broke and I had to drastically change my commuter route to avoid certain left turns because NOBODY understood what the hell it meant when I stuck my arm out the window...but that's asking too much, I guess.

[Asimovian]

Those rolling stops are especially bad at four-way stops, though, because it requires you to become a mind reader and try to figure out whether he thinks he stopped before or after you did :mad:

Amen. Although I do get a sort of pathetic amusement out of people coming from a perpendicular direction who race to "stop" before me so they can blow through the four-way. I can only assume that these individuals are wired up to some kind of sensor that shocks them something awful should they ever actually come to a complete stop. :rolleyes:

[Cat Whisperer]

When I come to a four-way, I stop completely, then start looking around. If you're still rolling, you obviously don't have right-of-way over me, so I go. Once I get a newer car, though, I may have to adjust my methods. :D

[legalsnugs]

Here when the stoplights are out, you not only have to watch out for people who breeze through the intersection without stopping, you also have to watch out for the asshats who come zipping up behind you, comkpletely unaware that you are going to stop at the non-light!!

And then they berate you because you knew to stop! :eek:

[Kythereia]

Huh.

When we had the lights go out in Toronto, people off the street stepped in to guide traffic until the police officers came along and took over.


(This is clearly why you should all come up and cause a power outage in Toronto so we can all party. Right? Right. :D)

[mischievous]

Minor (but necessary) addendum:

If a set of trafiic lights is broken, such that they are frozen red in one direction and green in another, do not blow through against a red because you "know it's your turn"! Yes, the light should have turned green at that time. However, there is no way in hell that the crossing traffic will psychically intuit that the green they are seeing is from a frozen traffic light - they are simply going to go through. And they will not be looking out for your entitled ass.

mischievous

[TJdude825]

This drives me nuts in Los Angeles.

What ends up happening is that instead of the proper clockwise rotation of cars, we get East- and Westbound cars going at once, then, in turn, North- and Southbound cars going at once, which makes it almost impossible to turn left in this situation.

Idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the '94 earthquake knocked out power to huge sections of the city, driving around town the next morning was just about the most stressful situation I've ever been in.

I thought this is what you were supposed to do. I mean, if you're going straight south, and I'm going straight north, who am I hurting by going through with you? And if you're going straight south, and I'm facing north, wanting to turn left (west) I'll pull forward as you do, they way I do at a green light without an arrow, then I'll turn as soon as my path is clear.

Tell me why I'm wrong.

[Asimovian]

...if you're going straight south, and I'm going straight north, who am I hurting by going through with you? And if you're going straight south, and I'm facing north, wanting to turn left (west) I'll pull forward as you do, they way I do at a green light without an arrow, then I'll turn as soon as my path is clear.

Tell me why I'm wrong.
I think your logic is completely correct, and this is usually what I see happen when the lights are out at an intersection. However, as Rufus Xavier pointed out, that's not what the law (at least in California) says about how you treat a four-way stop.

[Odinoneeye]

Oh and when someone ahead of you and in a different lane has their signal on to come into your lane...

THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU NEED TO ACCELERATE!

Another PSA

[Cat Whisperer]

Yes, but if you let someone get in ahead of you, that means THEY WIN and YOU LOSE.




Do I really need the rolleyes smiley?