Where I pit myself for Parking Lot Rage

[MannyL]

On Saturday I was in Fairfax VA to see Rick Springfield at the Fairfax County Fair. I had gone with my best friend. We arrived about an hour and a hald before Rick was supposed to start.

We drove around the parking area for 25 minutes and could not find a space. Suddenly I see a family of 5 walking towards our car. I ask them if we can have their space. They agree and I get out of the car and walk with them while my friend circles back around.

When I am at their space talking to them as they load up their car this other driver stops to wait for them to pull out of the space. This driver does not know that my friend wanted the space. The person who was in the space waits until my friend is 5 cars back in like before pulling out.

Now that the space is empty other than me standing in it the car that wanted to space tries to pull in. It can not pull in because I am standing there. The passenger in the car shouts at me to move and I explain that the person who was parked her said we could have the space and I need him to move his car so my friend can pull in.

The passenger does not like that and instructs his wife who was driving to pull into the space. She starts to and ligtly touches my leg with the car and stops. At this point her husband tells me to move. Again I (foolishly) stand my ground.

This is when he exits the car and starts yelling at me. He startes calling me language I am not going to repeat and because I believe I am in the right I tell him calmly and in a normal speaking voice to call the cops if he believes he should have the space because I am not moving.

He continues to get louder and threatens to attack me. I still stand where I was with his wife's bumper touching my leg. I'm calmly instructing him to call the cops who are there so they can decide if I am in the wrong.

A few minutes later the police come and ask both of us for our ID's. I explaing that mine is in my wallet which is in my pocket and I have to take it out. The officersays to do it slowly and I do. A second officer comes over and moves the man to another area of the garage. The office talking to me asks me to move to the raling and I do. It is at this time that the driver of the car takes the space.

I've realized at this point that I've lost the space unless they make her pull out and I doubt that will happen.

While I explain to the officer talking to me what happened I hear the other officer talking to the man telling him her was being disordaly and asking him if he was drinking because he smelled alcohol on his breath. The man admitted to drinking and the officer told him that I could cite you for being drunk and disordly and if they saw him with any beer at the fair he would be arrested for public intoxication.

The officer talking to me agreed that if the person who was in the space was still there we should have had it but as soon as they leave it is open for everyone and I did a foolish thing because I could have been assulted or shot if he had a weapon. I agreed that I did not make the best choices but I was frustrated by the parking situation. He did ask me if I had walked into the bumper or if the car was driven into me because he saw the car touching me when he came over.

I told him she drive the car slowly into me and stopped when the bumper tapped my leg. He asked me if I wanted to file an assult charge for that against both of them because the driver's husband told her to do it and I declined because I didn't want to miss the concert and going down to Fairfax for a court case would be a waste of my time.

So I am pitting myself for being an asshold and doing a foolish dangerous thing which nothing good could have come out of it. I could have been injured or worse

[DiosaBellissima]

Well, you were completely in the right here. Granted, standing in the spot wasnt the most intelligent move on your behalf ( :) ), but you were right.

I would have filed assault charges for their little stunt, though. That'll learn 'em.

[C3]

Well, you were completely in the right here. Granted, standing in the spot wasnt the most intelligent move on your behalf ( :) ), but you were right.

I would have filed assault charges for their little stunt, though. That'll learn 'em.
What?!?!?! No, he wasn't in the right. Parking spaces are first come, first served. You can't hold a space. It's rude. You circle around like everyone else does and wait for something to come up. So, not only was he not in the right, he was stupid for letting the situation escalate. Yeah, he could have pressed charges, but just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[KGS]

RICK SPRINGFIELD?!? wtf...

Agreed you should have filed charges. Otherwise that drunken asshole will think he can get away with it again. Lucky him it wasn't me standing in that parking space, I would've pissed on his radiator.

[GaWd]

You were in the right, and I would have filed charges on them as well. There is never an excuse for vehicular contact.

Next time, try telling the waiting cars that the people who are at their car are not leaving yet.

Sam

[Maxxxie]

Well, you were completely in the right here. Granted, standing in the spot wasnt the most intelligent move on your behalf ( :) ), but you were right.

I would have filed assault charges for their little stunt, though. That'll learn 'em.

The OP was not in the right. He chose to do the equivalent of queue-jumping and people (rightly) got angry at him. Now, the way the other guy chose to express his anger was wrong, but that doesn't make the OP right.

Parking spots are first-come, first-served. Sometimes you find a spot first go round, other times you go round and round and round for what seems like a lifetime. The OP tried to work around this unwritten rule and learnt that queue-jumping doesn't work.


Max.

[GuanoLad]

RICK SPRINGFIELD?!? wtf...
That's what I was thinking. All the way through I'm reading it, I think "Okay, sure, yes. Hmm, that was a bit risky. Hmm, okay, cool, the cops... wait a second, why isn't he defending his desire to see Rick freakin' Springfield, for pity's sake?"

[Troy McClure SF]

The OP was not in the right. Neither was the couple.

There isn't always a good guy.

[spinky]

If you think standing in a parking space means you're legitimately "saving" it for someone, you're very much in the wrong. I may not be able to make you move (and I'm not going to hit you with my car), but there's no way in hell I'm going to move out of the way and help you take a space you aren't entitled to. I'll happily wait you out, most likely laying on the horn while I do it.

[pulykamell]

If you think standing in a parking space means you're legitimately "saving" it for someone, you're very much in the wrong. I may not be able to make you move (and I'm not going to hit you with my car), but there's no way in hell I'm going to move out of the way and help you take a space you aren't entitled to. I'll happily wait you out, most likely laying on the horn while I do it.

Exactly. People who hold spaces like that piss me off. To echo what other posters have said: you cannot reserve parking spaces. First come, first served and all that. I don't know why idiots think standing in a space entitles them to it.

[Lockseer]

*Throws in dollar*

The original guy in the parking spot doesn't have any sort of entitlement or ownership rights to the spot, let alone the power to determine who is entitled to it. Sheesh. His job is to merely move his car...the etiquette of who gets it comes down to the people waiting in line.

Kudos to admitting the assholery. But it isn't for making a scene...it's for trying to reserve the spot by standing it.

As to the other driver, yes...major asshole by trying to nudge someone out of the way. Should have just waited patiently. If the cops came on the scene THEN with a line of five cars backed up because someone was standing in a parking spot, guessing the story would have been different.

Also, not that I'm defending the guy, having beer on one's breath doesn't make one a drunken asshole. If the cop charged him with drunk and disorderly, he could have demanded a breathalyzer. Of course...he COULD have been drunk. In which case he IS more of an asshole than originally.

Reminds me of the various "tailgating" threads that have popped up. Assholery all around.

[Lockseer]

*Throws in dollar*

The original guy in the parking spot doesn't have any sort of entitlement or ownership rights to the spot, let alone the power to determine who is entitled to it. Sheesh. His job is to merely move his car...the etiquette of who gets it comes down to the people waiting in line.

Kudos to admitting the assholery. But it isn't for making a scene...it's for trying to reserve the spot by standing it.

As to the other driver, yes...major asshole by trying to nudge someone out of the way. Should have just waited patiently. If the cops came on the scene THEN with a line of five cars backed up because someone was standing in a parking spot, guessing the story would have been different.

Also, not that I'm defending the guy, having beer on one's breath doesn't make one a drunken asshole. If the cop charged him with drunk and disorderly, he could have demanded a breathalyzer. Of course...he COULD have been drunk. In which case he IS more of an asshole than originally.

Reminds me of the various "tailgating" threads that have popped up. Assholery all around.

*Walks away with 98 cents in change*

[Lockseer]

Further assholery for double (now triple) posting. Apologies all around.

[NurseCarmen]

"Do you want to press charges?"

"I dunno, I'll consider it while she leaves the space"

Woulda seemed pretty simple to me.

[buttonjockey308]

I'm not sure where in the Gigantic Book of Unwritten Rules (tm) that is says you need to be in a car to hold a parking space. I've done it more times than I can count. You're a person, standing in a space that's open to anyone to be in, the drunken sot and his spineless wife HIT YOU WITH THEIR CAR! Not only would I have pressed charges, but I'd have fallen down on the ground writhing and cursing like an NBA forward staring at his final foul. Honestly, the only way to get anything in life is to take control of the situation, which it sounds very much like the OP did (in vain though it was). Too bad you didn't get the spot, but you stood your ground, good on you.

[the4thmooncat]

I'm not sure where in the Gigantic Book of Unwritten Rules (tm) that is says you need to be in a car to hold a parking space. I've done it more times than I can count. You're a person, standing in a space that's open to anyone to be in
Exactly what I was thinking. Can someone explain this?

[Lockseer]

After having read this thread before work, almost committed my own form of assholery on the morning drive.

We don't have a place outside our apartment where we can leave mail for pick-up, which is fine, as there's a blue postal drop box a few blocks away on the way to work. While I could take the time to parallel park on the street across from the box, I prefer to pull into the shared parking lot of a dry cleaners/deli/liquor store that is just as close...much easier to get in and out.

Thing is, there is, quite clearly displayed, a "For Customers Only" sign. And I'm clearly not a customer (unless you count me as a customer of the Postal Service, which is right next to the shared building of these businesses).

To be honest...I don't really care. I figure, I'm in and out of my car in literally less than a minute (if I cared to make it a slow jog, could easily do it in 20 seconds). There are about 12 parking spots there...and there has never been more than three or four occupied in the morning. I stop there about three times a week (I have a very active Netflix subscription), so can speak to this confidently. And there has never been the potenital for trouble...until today.

So, I get out of my car, and am about thirty feet away from it (and about forty feet from the mailbox) when I hear a voice yell at me from behind. I turn around, and a gentleman (who I believe was affiliated with the dry cleaners) was shouting "You can't park there!" All I ended up saying was "I'm just dropping off something in the mailbox," and finished my business.

But part of me was tempted...TEMPTED...especially after reading the above thread less than half an hour before...to say something along the lines of "Call the cops" or "So have me towed." I figure, I'd be out of there in about 40 seconds and there was no way a cop or truck would show up by then. But what if the guy had blocked me in by standing behind me when I returned to my car? And why ruin what, up to that point, had been an easy and natural process?

Damn you, Assholery...you are a cunning temptress...

[Neurotik]

Exactly what I was thinking. Can someone explain this?
You're an asshole if you sit in a space to save it and then don't move when someone wants to park there. Just as much as if you're an asshole if you stand in line and let a whole bunch of your friends cut in.

The driver shouldn't have hit him with the car, legally speaking, but morally speaking, I wouldn't have any pity for the OP if the driver had broken his legs.

He's a dick and deserved more than he got.

[pulykamell]

Exactly what I was thinking. Can someone explain this?

Well, here's one bloggers stories on assholes who hold parking spaces by standing in them (http://quietflower.org/archives/000013.html)


Yesterday morning Kevin told me a story that happened to his friend about a brief confrontation he had with a woman "holding" a parking space for a friend. Now how this woman thought her body could deter a vehicle from parking in a spot is beyond me. Once the cops showed up she got obstinate and the officer handed her a ticket. The friend? He finished parking his car.

...

For those of you who don't live in the city, believe me when I say you cannot hold a parking spot. Not only do you risk getting hit by a car, you could also get ticketed for being pertinacious.

*The woman was ticketed for not cooperating with the police. I don't know if there are any legal ramifications for standing in a parking spot, but I'd advise against it if you are in DC.


I mean, take this scenario, which I've seen at the mall several times: Car A is in one parking aisle, Car B in another. A parking space opens up ahead, in the aisle that Car A is in. A passenger from Car B jump out of the car and reserves the spot for his friend, who is not even in the same aisle as the parking space. To me, clearly Car A deserves the spot. He's in the aisle and the space ahead is his to park in. Yet assholes try pulling this stunt all the time.

It just seems common sense to me. Now if they could get rid of that stupid Chicago (and other cities) tradition where they reserve parking spaces with chairs during the winter.

[Lockseer]

Now if they could get rid of that stupid Chicago (and other cities) tradition where they reserve parking spaces with chairs during the winter.

Having lived several winters in Chicago, I can understand this under certain circumstances. Reserving a spot you've spent the better part of an hour shoveling out, because you know someone is on their way over...you clear it, you claim it. But that should only be good for one usage of said spot...once you clean a spot, and move your car in and then out...it's up for grabs. I've heard tales of people who try to lay permanent claim to a spot for several months because of 30 minutes spent cleaning it. Have heard anecdotal tales of folks retailiating on vehciles who usurp said spot

[Trunk]

Wow. I've never heard of a person holding a spot with their body. It's a petty and childish thing to do and really outside the unwritten rules.

Here's how the different stages of this should have played out.

Manny approaches family and asks, "can we have your space?"

1) Family man says, "sure".

Manny, who discovers he has to walk to the spot says, "oh, I guess it's not right in front of my car, so whoever is next in line when you pull out gets it."

OR

2) Family man says, "I don't own the parking spot. Whoever is in line when I pull out gets it, and I'm sad that a grown man just behaved so childishly in front of my family."

-------

Let's say we do make it to the space with Manny walking with the family.

1) Manny stands in the space like a spolied brat child. Cars pass by "cursing" the man-child for staking it out like a kindergartener. Manny's driver eventually make it around and the people who were following societal norms continue to drive around and look for spots. Manny wins. Score one for the petty.

2) A car says, "i'm pulling in there, and I request that you move." Manny moves and says, "well, I guess I'll have to try it the way everyone who graduated first grade does it."

--------

What Manny should be pitting himself for is not getting into a confrontation (which was inevitable), but being a fucking bitch in the first place. Because sometimes when a person behaves like Manny was behaving, I don't know what you could do except resort to a threat, or bump into him with your car.

If a person has just set out to upset the norm, there's really nothing you can do.

He probably ruined his night, his driver's night, made a pain in the ass for a cop, and ruined the concert for two people who were just trying to take a spot they were entitled to.

Un-fucking-believable what a petulant ass Manny must be.

[Trunk]

The OP was not in the right. Neither was the couple.

There isn't always a good guy.
What was the couple to do then?

Let's say I'm standing in an aisle in the grocery store and you come walking up the aisle. I move in front of you. You move to the side, and I move to the side blocking you again.

I'm FORCING you to walk to another aisle, or physically touch me when I'm just being "passive". There HAS to be laws against that.

If not, there's an unwritten rule that says you just don't do that.

Since we're "in" the grocery store, let's say I did this. . .someone is getting checked out. My wife is still in the vegetable section with the grocery cart, but she's just going to be a minute so I get in line.

1) No one shows up behind me. Wife approaches. We get in line. No problems.

2) Someone shows up behind me with a grocery cart. While the person in front of me is still checking out, my wife comes up and cuts in front of the person behind me. Pretty assholey.

3) Someone shows up behind me with a grocery cart. The person in front of me finishes checking out and I stand there waiting for my wife while the cashier does nothing.

Scenario 3 is what Manny did. It's CLEAR assholery. And you can can't criticize the "drinking guy" for being an asshole when Manny forced his hand. If he had actually PUNCHED Manny, that would have been borderline assholery. The fact that he didn't shows a lot of restraint on his part. If he stabbed Manny, that would have been full blown assholery.

[Dog80]

2) Someone shows up behind me with a grocery cart. While the person in front of me is still checking out, my wife comes up and cuts in front of the person behind me. Pretty assholey.

3) Someone shows up behind me with a grocery cart. The person in front of me finishes checking out and I stand there waiting for my wife while the cashier does nothing.

While I agree with you on number 3, I can't see the assholery in number 2. Is it another of those unwritten rules?

[Neurotik]

While I agree with you on number 3, I can't see the assholery in number 2. Is it another of those unwritten rules?
You shouldn't be waiting in line if you're not ready to check out. It would be a different matter if, while the two of you were waiting in line your wife suddenly remembers that she forgot to pick up some eggs. So she runs off to get the eggs while you wait with the cart in line.

The scenario of just getting in line before you think you are ready is being an asshole.

[Electrical Storm]

Years ago, when I was doing my undergraduate studies, parking was at a premium at the university I attended (and is even more so today).

I worked full-time and carried a 3/4 time load at the university, and had a nail-biting schedule that pretty much didn't leave any room for unexpected delays. :rolleyes:

During finals in my senior year, I left work early to make it to the university early so I'd have time to park and make it to my final exam on time.

Heavy traffic downtown, blah blah blah, and I'm down to the wire now. I pull in to one of the available lots and see an empty space. I'm the only one in the row, so it's free and clear.

I'm in a hurry so the asshat sitting down in the empty space almost bought it right there. I screeched to a stop, my heart pounding like crazy. I stepped out of the car and asked him with scarcely controlled anger what he was doing sitting in a parking space.

Well, a friend is having car trouble and she might have to leave the car overnight, so he's saving the space.

If she's having car trouble, where is she? There's no car there.

She's driving it around the block to see if it's going to make it home. If not she has to leave it here and he's saving her space.

I told him there was no "saving spaces" and that he needed to move. He flatly refused and said he'd "promised" to save the space. He was reading a book, so he looked down and continued to read, ignoring me and my fingers tapping on the hood of my car.

I'm really getting down to the last minute so I just got back in my car and started inching forward. I literally got so close that I couldn't see him anymore, so I stopped. I got out of the car, walked to the back bumper, and noted that I was far enough into the space to where other cars could easily pass behind me and not hit my car.

So, I grabbed my knapsack, locked up my car and briskly strode off in the direction of my class.

Hey! Hey! Hey, move your car out of the spaaaaace!! It's RESERVED! He's calling after me almost in a panic.

I ignored him. :D

[MelCthefirst]

I witnessed this happen when I lived in Sydney. A Chinese woman was reserving the space for her husband by standing in it and the white Australian man who got to the park with the car first was inching towards her yelling "we don't do this in Australia, MOVE". I must admit that I've never seen it before or since in Australia or NZ and although there have been times when I've thought it a good idea, it's something that I would never do either - that's not to say that it doesn't go on. At the time, I thought it was an interesting commentary on racial integration. Now I see that Merkins do it too!

[CanvasShoes]

You're an asshole if you sit in a space to save it and then don't move when someone wants to park there. Just as much as if you're an asshole if you stand in line and let a whole bunch of your friends cut in.

The driver shouldn't have hit him with the car, legally speaking, but morally speaking, I wouldn't have any pity for the OP if the driver had broken his legs.

He's a dick and deserved more than he got.
I'm sorry, but even after your explanation, I still don't understand why person pulling into a spot from a vehicle slightly before the vehicle pulls in, is any less valid than the vehicle pulling in itself.

Maybe it depends upon the part of the country you're from. Chefguy can correct me, or back me up, whichever fits, on this one, but I've seen this happen up here many times, and no one I've come across bats an eye.

I've never done it myself, since I tend to park in faraway, or unpopular parts of the parking lot, but I would simply automatically drive right by a person in a spot doing this.

Although, my one thought about the OP is that why, knowing how bonkers so many Americans are, didn't you simply ask the original family to wait a moment until your friend's car was even with the parking space, telling others that you were not leaving, but merely getting something and would be going back in (or something like that)?

[Nametag]

I'm sorry, but even after your explanation, I still don't understand why person pulling into a spot from a vehicle slightly before the vehicle pulls in, is any less valid than the vehicle pulling in itself.

Maybe it depends upon the part of the country you're from. Chefguy can correct me, or back me up, whichever fits, on this one, but I've seen this happen up here many times, and no one I've come across bats an eye.

I've never done it myself, since I tend to park in faraway, or unpopular parts of the parking lot, but I would simply automatically drive right by a person in a spot doing this.

Although, my one thought about the OP is that why, knowing how bonkers so many Americans are, didn't you simply ask the original family to wait a moment until your friend's car was even with the parking space, telling others that you were not leaving, but merely getting something and would be going back in (or something like that)?
Because people can't be parked, dumbass, only cars can be parked. A car in a parking space isn't "holding" it, it's PARKED in it. By sheer semantic necessity, a car parked in a parking space rightfully occupies it. A person standing in a parking space is not parked -- he is not a car -- he can't rightfully occupy a parking space.

Honestly, I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

[Trunk]

I was wrong. I've come to think of Manny as really no different than this guy (http://www.asianamericans.com/TiananmenSquareJune51989.jpg).

Well, except instead of standing in front of a line of tanks, for the cause of democracy in an oppressed society, he was actually trying to cut in line at a Rick Springfield concert in Northern Virginia because he couldn't find a parking spot for 25 minutes. But why quibble?

Sally forth noble line jumpers. For one day ye shall be remembered as the true heroes of our cause.

[Dog80]

Trunk, Neurotic et. al. Do you feel the same way about reserving a table at a restraunt pre-booking tickets for a concert or pre-ordering a book? I don't see the difference between these situations and sitting in an empty parking space.

[Neurotik]

Trunk, Neurotic et. al. Do you feel the same way about reserving a table at a restraunt pre-booking tickets for a concert or pre-ordering a book? I don't see the difference between these situations and sitting in an empty parking space.
I have a hard time believing you're actually this stupid. The difference is that those situations are explicitly allowed policies, set up by the company. Had the OP reserved a parking spot through an official channel of the company running the parking area, then it would be one thing. Instead, he had a buddy go cut in line for a parking space.

[Cheesesteak]

What was the couple to do then? I think I can safely say that driving your car into the person, even if it's just a touch as this was, is in the "Don't Do" list. As is yelling at the person and threatening to assault the person. The only right thing they did was involve the police, which Manny suggested they do at the outset.

Note, if you will, that the police officer suggested at least two charges could be filed against the couple, assault and disorderly conduct. Manny was described by the officer as being foolish, not criminal.

This, I think, describes the situaton well. Manny was being foolish and the couple escalated it to a potentially violent and criminal situation.

[Trunk]

I think I can safely say that driving your car into the person, even if it's just a touch as this was, is in the "Don't Do" list. As is yelling at the person and threatening to assault the person. The only right thing they did was involve the police, which Manny suggested they do at the outset.

Note, if you will, that the police officer suggested at least two charges could be filed against the couple, assault and disorderly conduct. Manny was described by the officer as being foolish, not criminal.

This, I think, describes the situaton well. Manny was being foolish and the couple escalated it to a potentially violent and criminal situation.
Because Manny gave them no other options.

I don't care what the officer said they could have been charged with.

You can't just goad someone into being an asshole and then cry "innocent" when they actually do act like an asshole. The guy should have lifted Manny off the ground with a bear hug, moved him aside, and let his wife move into the spot. Or the driver should have continued to NUDGE Manny until she was in her spot.

I think both of those would have been reasonable actions. Yeah, yeah. . .that's technically ASSAULT, right? Big fuckin' whoop. Excuse me for not wanting to live in a world where a guy can be a total fucking asshole but if another guy yells at him for it or lays a pinkie finger on him, THAT guy gets charged with assault..

[Cheesesteak]

NO other options? They couldn't have just gotten a police officer without assaulting or threatening Manny? They couldn't have just driven on and gotten another spot? They couldn't have blocked the spot and waited Manny out? Those appear to be completely valid options to me. Odd that you don't see that these options exist.

[Mtgman]

Because Manny gave them no other options. How so? They always had the option of turning away and looking for another parking space. Or calling the police because there was a person standing where a car belongs. The officer, as related in the OP, would have made him move because "you can't reserve spaces, it's first come first served." They had no grounds on which it was justifiable to use their car as a weapon.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Neurotik]

They had no grounds on which it was justifiable to use their car as a weapon.
Legally, I agree. You can't do that sort of thing. Morally, though, some people just need to be assaulted. If the driver had just run over Manny[b], I'd say it was [b]Manny's own damn fault for being a complete asshole.

[Trunk]

All right, there were options.

It's just ridiculous that the car would have to call the cops and wait for them to arrive because someone is standing in their parking spot. Ridiculous.

I don't see this as "using your car as a weapon" either. Don't exaggerate for the sake of argument. You know that a person can lightly feather the brake and inch a car forward and that there is no risk of injury associated with it.

[Cheesesteak]

You're right that a person shouldn't have to call the cops and wait around for a spot, Manny admitted that he was in the wrong. Sometimes, to keep the peace, you have to deal with somebody being a jerk in an inconvenient way rather than the quick way.

[Lockseer]

I don't see this as "using your car as a weapon" either. Don't exaggerate for the sake of argument. You know that a person can lightly feather the brake and inch a car forward and that there is no risk of injury associated with it.

While I'm on board with the "Assholery is Afoot" faction, suggesting it's proper for someone to "nudge" someone out of their way with a CAR? Let's be reasonable here. Not only is a car NOT designed to gently tap things out of the way, you can't see your front bumper from sitting inside.

What are the guidelines for using your vehicle to gently move people like a flock of sheep? What visual signs do you look for on the face of the parking lot squatter to show when you've gone too far...or have another inch or two before contact? Should the husband been outside the car, giving advice and motioning with his hands, saying "Just a little more, honey...you've got plenty of room before you connect with his shin." Christ...it's a CAR.

So no other options? Whatever. Sit and wait for the guy to leave. His friend wouldn't have gotten the spot either. What it boils down to is a Mexican Standoff ultimately arbitrated by the degree to which one is a Rick Springfield fan.

[Mtgman]

Morally, though, some people just need to be assaulted.I think we have some pretty different ideas of what constitutes moral behavior.I don't see this as "using your car as a weapon" either. Don't exaggerate for the sake of argument. You know that a person can lightly feather the brake and inch a car forward and that there is no risk of injury associated with it.I'm not exaggerating. A car is not a device intended for subtle persuasion. Three inches further in and the OP could have suffered a hyperextended knee or broken leg. Three inches is not far, I don't care how good you are at feathering your brakes.

Society has rules about conflict resolution. Nowhere in those rules does it say it's ok to threaten(and make no mistake, this is exactly what was being done) someone with a multi-thousand, probably several hundred horsepower piece of equipment. Carrying through that threat to the point where it actually contacts the person being threatened and is mere inches from potentially causing serious bodily injury is way out of bounds.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Mtgman]

So I am pitting myself for being an asshold and doing a foolish dangerous thing which nothing good could have come out of it. I could have been injured or worseMannyL, I want to take a different tack than most have here. I'd like to congratulate you. You have shown personal growth and courage in recognizing and being remorseful over your contributions to the situation. You did the wrong thing in the beginning, but you kept your cool and worked through the right channels to sort out the conflict you had started. Once the police officer arrived you continued to do the right thing by leaving the spot you had no right to and accepting his authority over the situation. It appears you have learned your lesson and have shown that even irrational behavior on the part of multiple parties in a conflict need not lead to injury or criminal proceedings.

It is the rare individual who never acts like an asshole at some point or another. It is the act of a responsible adult to recognize when they have been an asshole and to own up to their share of blame for creating the situation. I trust the lesson has been learned.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Lockseer]

Perhaps why Parking Lot Squatters (PLS) are facing such opposition is that it seems like an inherently selfish act. Here you have a parking lot full of people driving around, looking for spots, and the PLS decides to take his or her own initiative and set off on foot to hunt down the elusive Parking Spot.

"Why is this so bad," I hear you cry. "Why should I be punished for my ingenuity? Other people have just as much right to do what I do, and I wouldn't mind."

Okay, but the thing is...you notice that you're the only one doing it? You don't have groups of PDS running around, trying to be the first to claim the spot. While you sit there, hearing the opening bars of whatever band opens for Rick Springfield, do you notice other PLS's dashing around, frantically looking for a spot to stand in? No. It works for you...but only as long as you are the only one doing it.

The parking lot is not designed for numbers of PLS's to be running around, cutting in and out of traffic, running to spots. Parking lots are designed for people to walk to and from their spot to the store in question. Plus, due to the inherent nature of parking spots, only one car can fit in at a time. Say you and another PLS dash into a spot. Do you get to arm wrestle to see who stays?

All I'm saying is that, in a world where dozens of cars circle around looking for spots, parking lots work. But if dozens of people are roaming around the lot, doing the same thing, the plan starts to fall apart. Dodging in front of cars to claim spots, drivers trying to beat people on foot (not everyone has a passenger who can claim a spot)...it's hardly a slippery slope or exaggeration.

Thoughts?

[descamisado]

WARNING: LONG RANT

The following incident happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

I live in New York City and although New Yorkers can be pretty uncivilized, abrasive, agressive, etc., there is one unwritten rule that everybody follows. Well, almost everybody.

You don't steal a (hard-to-find) parking space someone else clearly has claim to.

After driving a around for about 30 minutes one morning, I finally found a back-in parking space. It was on a street with room for two lanes of traffic. There was a vehicle double-parked opposite the spot (no one inside). As I stopped in front of the spot, I turned on my hazard lights (double blinkers) to signal I was stopping for the spot.

As soon as I stopped, the driver behind me pulled right up on my bumper and started honking. Since there were several cars behind him and I had clearly staked out the spot, I decided to pull up and let them pass.

Big mistake.

The Original King of Assholery™ pulled up and backed into the spot. I immediately pulled over and got out and confronted him. The very fact that he finished parking, got out and walked away without looking me in the face, tells me he knew he was wrong.

In addition to my peaceful imprecations asking him to move, I finally had to remind him that as a fellow African-American, he was a prime example of the disrespect, self-hatred and self-interest that prevent us from coming together as a peole. (Well, not that eruditely -- I also suggested he was prime example a certain six-letter word I know).

I do intend to do him evil. I just can't right now because something is coming up where I'm going to need good karma, but, oh boy, afterwards. (Does karma work that way?)

If anybody wants to know what it I'm going to do, let me know. It's a doozy. I'm actually going to patent it.

Although I was fuming, to my credit, when I found a parking space about five minutes later, a young lady asked me for a battery charge and I, retaining my usual good nature, obliged.

[Trunk]

Thoughts?
An excellent way of saying rationally what I was just spouting off on.

On top of what you said. . .

The PLS also has an unfair advantage over the person with kids in their car (who they can't send to squat themselves) or the person driving solo who could possibly be indefinitely shut out of spots were the PLSs allowed to operate on a large scale.

If it catches on, ultimately you're going to have to make up regulations about it, and put up signs in the garage about it, the costs of which will ultimately be passed onto all of us.

There's a lot of things in daily life that operate sufficiently well without excessive rules and regulations. Without fail, someone comes along who sees the loophole and wants to "get one over on the system" and hides behind, "show me where it's written that you can't do that."

[MelCthefirst]

If anybody wants to know what it I'm going to do, let me know. It's a doozy. I'm actually going to patent it.


What are you going to do - I love hearing revenge stories.

[spinky]

What it boils down to is a Mexican Standoff ultimately arbitrated by the degree to which one is a Rick Springfield fan.And when you put it that way, there's a lot more than a parking space at stake. The loser has to admit to being the bigger Rick Springfield fan. Talk about a punishment.

Your insight about what would happen if two people tried to save the same spot is a good one, too. Another question is how late before you pull in the spot is it ok for a squatter to leap into it and yell "I called it! It's my spot because I called spotsies!" If you get halfway into the spot, but they're able to weasel in from the other side, are you prevented from continuing?


Here's my idea for dealing with them if I'm in a particularly belligerent mood. I'm driving my truck, and I've got a passenger. I attempt to pull in a spot, but Manny is standing there doing a superior dance. I say to my passenger, "take the wheel and pull into the spot slowly. You may have to bump into me." Then I get out, get between Manny and the front of the truck, and I start pushing him. Every inch I gain, the truck moves forward with me. The truck even helps me a little. Heck, maybe I could just sit on the hood and push, so long as it's me that touches him and not the truck.

He'd probably claim I assaulted him, and I'd gladly admit to the cops that I pushed him out of the way because he was standing in a parking spot. No jury would convict me.

[descamisado]

What are you going to do - I love hearing revenge stories.

I would like to smear dogshit underneath all of his door handles. I know I probably won't but it's nice to fantasize. (Or, maybe I will -- ja know how long it would take to get the smell of dogshit off our hands?)

[Mtgman]

He'd probably claim I assaulted him, and I'd gladly admit to the cops that I pushed him out of the way because he was standing in a parking spot. No jury would convict me.I'd reprase that last bit. I'd say that most juries would be sympathetic, but this situation would fit the crime of assault in most jurisdictions. The judge typically instructs the jury that they are bound to apply the law, not their own emotional reaction. After reading the legal definition of assault and the account of the situation(as you have written it) it would be a jurors civic duty to note that indeed the behavior was correctly categorized as assault. Therefore they have a duty to vote guilty. They may think the law is a bunch of crap and should have an exception for people who assault assholes trying to reserve parking spaces, but short of jury nullification I'd put at least even money on a conviction based on how the scenario was written.

Here's what I don't understand. For those who believe it would be an acceptable course of action to forcibly remove, with the aid of the vehicle or not, a "squatter" can I ask if you've thought about the cost/benefit? Obviously the benefit is you get the space and the free time that you would otherwise spend looking for another one(quite possibly further from the destination). The cost is possible criminal charges, being arrested and jailed for a day or so even if the charges don't come through, a significant risk of vandalism to the vehicle you've left behind, or escalation of the violence where they resist your attempts to move them and a real fight breaks out with all the risks, legal and physical, involved there. Is a parking space worth it? Is the greater cause of stamping out this behavior at every opportunity worth it? I just don't understand taking this aggressive stance when it seems you have much more to lose than to gain.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Walton Firm]

I just don't understand taking this aggressive stance when it seems you have much more to lose than to gain.And that's exactly what bullies, assholes and small-fry criminals count on: the fact that, for every individual victim, the cost of doing something about their assholish behaviour is not worth the gain, and it's easier to just shrug it off and let them win.

It's a kind of Prisoner's Dilemma. If everybody took a vow to never let assholes get away with their assholery, even at the cost of some personal inconvenience and even danger, there would be soon be very few assholes and therefore it would be very rare that you'd actually need to make good on your vow. On the other hand, if the assholes could be certain that nobody would ever stand up to them, assholery would be a risk-free business and becoming an asshole would be a rational choice.

By answering Manny's assholery with his own, Manny's antagonist basically made a personal sacrifice to the greater good of society. He incurred some inconvenience, risked getting into a violent situation, and risked legal trouble because formally he was in the wrong. But on the other hand, Manny has now learned a valuable lesson, and will hopefully be a better citizen from now on. Can we really say, then, that it wasn't worth the cost? Wouldn't society be a better place if we were all willing to "take one for the team" a little more often?

[Lockseer]

But on the other hand, Manny has now learned a valuable lesson, and will hopefully be a better citizen from now on. Can we really say, then, that it wasn't worth the cost? Wouldn't society be a better place if we were all willing to "take one for the team" a little more often?

Dear God in heaven...this is going the route of the Antagonizing Tailgaters (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317486) thread. If you combat assholish behavior with assholish behavior, then how exactly does the person feel taught a lesson? They just think you're an asshole, too, and are likely to retaliate further. It escalates things, doesn't solve them.

1) Squatting in a Parking Spot = Assholery

2) Assaulting Someone (Ever) = Assholery

Is physically moving someone from a parking spot assault? That's another issue...but using your CAR to do it? Crikey...think a little!

"Doing something" about the situation doesn't mean you need to physically confront the problem. Instead, I'd inch my car into the spot (so that the squatter's car could very obviously not make it in) and just wait it out. If assholery on the part of another lands me in trouble with the law...the asshole won.

Long story, short (too late): Assholery doesn't nullify assholery. It's a multiplicative (hell, exponential) factor.

[Mtgman]

I'm not saying people should roll over. If you want the parking space there is a perfectly legitimate means of getting it. Notify the authorities and let them remove the pedestrian in carland. This has all kinds of side benefits. Odds are the police will get ID from the person so if you come back later and your car is keyed they can track them down for questioning, or at least provide documentation for you to use to show the insurance company when you put in a claim for the damages. Also it avoids any legal implications for yourself. Heck, even the threat of calling the authorities is usually enough to get the bullies, assholes, and small-fry criminals to back off. So why resort to taking the matter into your own hands instead of just picking up a phone or saying "honey, put it in park here for a minute(halfway into the space, or at least blocking it) while I run get the attention of the carpark attendant or security officer."

Enjoy,
Steven

[MannyL]

I have read everyone's opinion on what I did. While I understand that what I did was wrong I don't consider it as being an asshole. I admit I put myself at risk of injury if the passenger did not show the restraint he did, but one piece of information I failed to include because I did not want to cloud anyone's decisions was the passenger who I am assuming was his wife, wanted to leave the sport and find another but he (the passenger) would not let her.

I'm not going to make a post supporting what I did as being right because it was not and I was a jerk.

[zweisamkeit]

I have read everyone's opinion on what I did. While I understand that what I did was wrong I don't consider it as being an asshole. I admit I put myself at risk of injury if the passenger did not show the restraint he did, but one piece of information I failed to include because I did not want to cloud anyone's decisions was the passenger who I am assuming was his wife, wanted to leave the sport and find another but he (the passenger) would not let her.

I'm not going to make a post supporting what I did as being right because it was not and I was a jerk.


If you really, really wanted that spot, why didn't you just follow them in the car? Then your car would be the first one to have dibs to the spot and none of this would've happened.

That's my problem. If you wanted the parking spot so bad, you should've just gone with the car, instead of you going with them and having your friend with the car go in search of another spot. That, to me, is trying to have your cake (a 'given' spot by following them) and eating it, too.

[MannyL]

If you really, really wanted that spot, why didn't you just follow them in the car? Then your car would be the first one to have dibs to the spot and none of this would've happened.

That's my problem. If you wanted the parking spot so bad, you should've just gone with the car, instead of you going with them and having your friend with the car go in search of another spot. That, to me, is trying to have your cake (a 'given' spot by following them) and eating it, too.


They had said their car was along the back wall so I was going ahead to point my friend to it.


Lot Entrance -> A |------------------------------------------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | | |Space kind person was in |D | | |
| | | |
| ----------------------------C--------------B---|
^
^ |
Where we were when I asked about space - | |

Where the people leaving came from -|

A=Lot In/Out
B=Where people walked into lot from pedestrian exit
C=Where we were when I asked if they were leaving and if we could have their space
D=Where their car was parked

Traffic flows in at A makes a right, makes a left then can either go up the middle lane to second level or turn left at end lane to circle back aroune to top of lot where you turn left to head back to exit/first lane.

[CanvasShoes]

Because people can't be parked, dumbass, ..........Honestly, I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.
It's really not necessary to be so nasty about it. Curiosity and a request for further clarification does not denote lack of intelligence.

As I clearly explained, I generally park in parking spaces on the outskirts of the parking lot, or in odd areas anyway, so I'm not asking for a blessing on the practice for MYSELF here.

And as I also clearly explained, where *I* live, I've not seen it looked on badly by other motorists and I've seen it happen a number of times. Mostly at the state fair, where the grass field parking lot is a huge pain in the butt, but in store parking lots from time to time as well.

[TheLoadedDog]

I would like to smear dogshit underneath all of his door handles. I know I probably won't but it's nice to fantasize. (Or, maybe I will -- ja know how long it would take to get the smell of dogshit off our hands?)
Mate, ya just go down to your local South-East Asian grocery and pick up some fish sauce - preferably Thai Squid Brand, but any will do. A quick squirt in the air intake vents around the windshield will do wonders. The inside of the car will be uninhabitable for weeks.

And you'll have a near-full bottle of fish sauce as a bonus. It's actually nice stuff.

[CanvasShoes]

Mate, ya just go down to your local South-East Asian grocery and pick up some fish sauce - preferably Thai Squid Brand, but any will do. A quick squirt in the air intake vents around the windshield will do wonders. The inside of the car will be uninhabitable for weeks.

And you'll have a near-full bottle of fish sauce as a bonus. It's actually nice stuff.
Nah nah nah....

You want to get some bear bait. Preferably stuff that's been out in the woods already for several months. This is the most putrid, heinous substance known to man.

:D