Death brings the assholes

[Edward The Head]

People fucking suck, especially when they talk bullshit about you. Anyway here's what's happened.

My mother died almost a month ago. It was very sudden, she was only 51. She had no husband as my father and her got divorced many years ago. There are three children, me (31), my brother the Big C (25), and my half-sister who's only 16. My brother and I are well out of the house and can deal with the death, or as well as we can. My sister lived with mom and my mother's sister who we'll call M. Then there are three other brothers and sisters of my mom's. The brother, B, and one sister, V, and my grandmother all came out when mom died. That's when all of this began.

My mother had a brain aneurism; she went to the hospital, then transported to a bigger, better hospital. To the best of my knowledge she was most likely dead when she got to the first hospital. We kept her on life support so that my brother, and the rest of the family, all of whom live far away, could come to see her.

That first night I had to do all of the paperwork for organ donations. That's what my mother wanted so it wasn't a problem. She saved a number of people so that's good.

Anyway, the next couple of days were pretty hard on me since I had to pick up family, make the funeral arrangements, all the fun stuff. My sister told me that she wanted some sort of funeral, my mother's family was really against it for some reason, but my sister wanted the friends to be able to come and see her so I had a viewing. I think this really pissed off the rest of the family, but I know that my sister is much better off for it so everyone else can piss off about that.

The same day my sister's father, who we'll just call Dickhead, wanted to take her out for lunch. Dickhead's father and mother, plus my mother's family all went as well. I didn't have a problem with it because Dickhead never sees her very often. I don't know Dick very well since my mother kicked him out after my sister was born because he drank and abused my mother. I hadn't seen the guy in 13+ years.

So half an hour after my sister goes to lunch I get a phone call from my sister's best friend, who had also gone, saying my sister was crying and wanted to leave. Since I'm trying to keep my sister from going totally crazy I went to see what was up. It seems that Dick was trying to tell her that she had to come home with him and it was really upsetting her. When I got there I talked to my sister, and tried to get her to go back to the table. When I went to talk to the rest of the people at the table, Dickhead got mad and left, Dickhead Sr. threatened to "Lay me out" more then once. Now this little pecker couldn't have been that strong, and I ignored him. Dickhead Bitch told me I was being rude and ruining lunch, for what I still don't know because I was trying to keep my sister at the table. After some real bitching and threats, we decided to leave the table, and let my sister eat lunch.

I, Iris, and my brother waited out in the lobby in case my sister got upset again. Lunch got over, and when everyone left not even my grandmother would talk to me. And to top it off Dickhead Bitch told my sister "Not only have you lost your mother, but your father as well." Now what kind of fucking cunt would say such a thing? I know for a fucking fact that I didn't say a word, I only wanted to try and help my sister. So you know what, my sister never had a father anyway, and there's no way in hell that Dickhead is going to be one anyway, especially with Dickhead Sr and Bitch as grandparents.

For the next few days no one would really speak to me until the day before my Grandmother and V left. During this time I had to go to the courthouse and begin preparing my mother's estate because there is no will. During this time I also have to help my sister figure out where she will be living.

Fast forward to last weekend. I went out to California where the rest of the family lives. I wanted to try and talk to B about my sister living there, and just take a bit of a vacation since I didn't get one because of the death. B told me that he wasn't taking my sister because she didn't want to leave the house. Even though we talked for a few hours, we only talked for about a minute about my sister as if he doesn't want to take her now. So I think, it will not be easy but she can live my M in the house until she graduates from high school. Until that is yesterday when I find out that M is leaving in August. So how about if someone fucking tells me? Or maybe tell my fucking sister. So basically my sister has no place to go. I cannot take her because I do not have the room. I refuse to let Dickhead even think about it.

To top it all off, because I now handle everything of my mother's, it seems that the family thinks that I am selling the house and keeping all of the money. Where the fuck did this idea ever come from? Oh wait I know, you know nothing about me, and because you've always seen my father as wanting nothing but money I have to be that way. Well guess what, you don't know either my father or me that well so stuff it.

So now I'm left with only two choices for my sister, one is for her to live with my Uncle B, which he has said she's not doing. The only other choice then is for my sister to live with my father, who has no relation to her at all!

So, motherfuckers, since no one seems to want to talk to me here's what I hope will happen. I hope that my sister does go to live with my father, he may not be her real father, or any blood at all, but he will be there for her unlike everyone else. And, I am taking the house, if M doesn't leave, and keeping the money. Guess why assholes, because I don't want my sister to have a ton of money at the age of 16, guess what she'll do with it, what any 16 year old would do, spend it. Then how the fuck is she supposed to go to college? So when she gets to the age to go to college, she can tell me and I'll fucking pay for it! Then, when she gets the fuck out of college she'll also have a nest egg because there will be money left over. Plus, if by some strange chance Dickhead does happen to take my sister, he's not getting a cent, I know how people are and then my sister will be out of fucking money.

So, to my sister's father, you're a fucking prick, I can't stand you one bit, you treated my mother like shit, took money from her and never gave a cent for the raising of my sister. Dickhead Sr, don't ever fucking threaten me again. I was trying to be civil but you were a cock at lunch so piss off.

To the rest of my family on my mother's side, I didn't say a fucking word about keeping any money. Try fucking talking to me before you try and guess what the hell I'm thinking, it usually works out. I have no intentions of keeping money that I know will help my sister. Yesterday you had my ex-uncle send me an e-mail about my behavior. I haven't seen this guy in 20 years except once a couple of months ago. He knows even less so write your own damn e-mails. Plus get him off the fucking drugs and teach him how to construct at least a somewhat normal sentence. It took me 15 minutes to understand what the hell you were trying to say, and even then I hope I got it right.

Why the fuck do people have to be so damn dumb?

[Liberal]

Wow. Actually, Edward, those people aren't dumb. They're just ordinary wealth fetishers. You, on the other hand, are wise beyond your thirty-one years. Your sister is lucky to have you. I'm sorry for your loss.

[lieu]

Edward, do you have a trusted attorney, CPA or some kind of investment advisor that can help you set up what needs to be done financially? They'll help you avoid potentially enormous tax implications, plus give you the peace of mind that you're doing things right.

So far, you're golden. Hang in there.

[GaWd]

Ehh. Wise, maybe, but you need to consider the law when it comes to placing your sister somewhere. She's not emancipated, and technically, her father will have custody unless there's something preventing him from having it. Definitely DO consult a family law lawyer before they decide to and get the jump on things.

A Lawyer can tell you what the options for your sister are without just being confronted by drama and argument from her side of the family.

Sam

P.S.- good for you for sticking up to the rest of your family in crisis.

[MaxTheVool]

First of all, condolences on your mother's death.

Secondly, I'm a bit confused by this. Your mother had three children: you and your brother (both adults), and your sister (16).

Your current plan is to take all her money, keep it, and then use it to help your sister through college?

Shouldn't the money be split 3 ways? Perhaps with your sister's share being put into a trust of some sort that she can only use for education or when she turns 25, or something? Then if your brother and you want to help her out more out of your shares, you can?


In any case, as others have pointed out, you'd best be talking to a lawyer/accountant ASAP.

[Liberal]

The ages aren't surprising to me. My sister is 11 years older than I am, and I have one aunt who is younger than I am.

[eleanorigby]

Kudos to you for caring for your sister.

Could someone love this 16 year old? What about the grandparents? Jeebus.

You need a family attorney like yesterday. It will be worth the expense, and most probably, if you set up some kind of trust for sis, the lawyer gets paid out of that.

IMO, you need to talk to brother and sister--hopefully together. Anyone else's opinion and feelings don't matter here.

I am sorry for your loss.

[Kimstu]

MtV: In any case, as others have pointed out, you'd best be talking to a lawyer/accountant ASAP.

Absolutely. ETH, I'm very sorry about your loss. But you absolutely do need to get your mother's estate formally divided among her children (whether in three equal parts or any other arrangement that's okay with all of you), with your sister's part placed in trust for her future. Your taking it all and hanging onto it, even if it's only to keep it to pay for your sister's education, will just cause more resentment and misunderstanding.

Talk to your brother and sister to find out a mutually satisfactory arrangement, and then carve it in stone, legally speaking.

[Edward The Head]

Sorry, I didn't go into everything here and did leave some of it out. The estate must be split three ways. I have talked to both my brother and my sister about how we wish it to work. No one else in the family has even bothered to ask me what we wanted to do. Though after the e-mail I got yesterday they seem to think that I plan on keeping all of the money and not giving any to her.

I have talked a bit to a lawyer, though not fully. I will look into a trust for my sister.

As for my sister, being 16 she has a say in where she will live. My mother long ago asked my fater to take care of my sister if anything were to happen. As of yet though no one will tell me what's supposed to be going on. I personally have no say in where she ends up going, though with her father not being in the same state, and a violent bastard he's not getting her. I will have to ask my father if he has talked to a lawyer, I'm sure he has.

[Cat Whisperer]

First off, my sympathies. My dad died unexpectedly this April. He and my mom were divorced (for four days) before he died. That leaves my three sisters and me as inheritors of his "estate" (one crapped up house and lots of debt). My sisters and I have always gotten along fairly well - now all of a sudden, there is friction and stress and people getting mad and leaving rooms and general ugliness.

I don't know how things work where you live, but you might not have complete control over what happens to your mother's estate. If you become administrator (and you have to apply for that here), you do make decisions and have responsibility for what happens, but you are also still responsible for the other inheritors (that is, your brother and sister) for what decisions you make. Since there is property involved, there will need to be probate (I believe) to sell it or whatever.

In other words, it's really complicated, it will take a really long time, laywers will need to be involved, and people will get upset and ugly before it's all done, if it's anything like my situation. The only people who have a say or a stake here are you and your siblings, though. Your mother's family can say anything they want, but they probably have no legal rights here. I agree with others - one of your first steps is talking to an estate lawyer.

[danceswithcats]

Mucho sucko. My condolences, ETH. The good advice has already been given. Hugs to you and Iris, miss you both.

[Green Cymbeline]

I feel so bad for your sister. Why can't you take her? You have an extra bedroom, don't you? It's only for 2 years. Isn't that better than sending her to live with someone who is not related to her? Or, take some of the money and get a bigger place. Or sell or rent your house and move in to your mom's house with your sister. Your sister probably feels like no one wants her, which on top of being motherless at 16 must be really painful.

Best of luck.

[GaWd]

Sorry, I didn't go into everything here and did leave some of it out. The estate must be split three ways. I have talked to both my brother and my sister about how we wish it to work. No one else in the family has even bothered to ask me what we wanted to do. Though after the e-mail I got yesterday they seem to think that I plan on keeping all of the money and not giving any to her.

I have talked a bit to a lawyer, though not fully. I will look into a trust for my sister.

As for my sister, being 16 she has a say in where she will live. My mother long ago asked my fater to take care of my sister if anything were to happen. As of yet though no one will tell me what's supposed to be going on. I personally have no say in where she ends up going, though with her father not being in the same state, and a violent bastard he's not getting her. I will have to ask my father if he has talked to a lawyer, I'm sure he has.
She really doesn't have that much of a say in where she lives. You mom's wishes to have her live with your dad instead of her dad really have little bearing on the situation-especially since she left no will. Her father has legal rights to his daughter unless there is some legal reason why he should have limited contact with her. Notice I said "legal". If he used to beat your mom, but she never got a restraining order or filed a police report, it's hard to substantiate and Family Services may feel she is better off with her dad.

You need to contact a FAMILY LAW attorney for your sister's interests. Trust me, people can be sneaky and nasty and play scorched earth games when they want their offspring back and you need to be prepared-more prepared than they are-if there is even a remote possibility that they might make a play for custody.

Sam

[GaWd]

She really doesn't have that much of a say in where she lives.

I should clarify this a bit-

Laws vary from count and state to county and state, but generally, a 16 year old will have more of a say than a 9 year old. If the courts/CPS/Family Services see a reason that she would be "better off" with her bio-dad instead of your dad, and don't feel your sister's best interests are being fulfilled, then they may decide to place her, instead, with her blood relatives.

That's not to say that your sister has anything close to full control over where she ends up residing, but as long as she is making decisions that appear to the courts to be in her best interest, they might not interfere.

Sam

PS- IANAL, and the foregoing should not be considered legal advice. My only advice is to get a family law lawyer and to be prepared.

[zagloba]

ETH, My sympathies on your loss.

Your legal situation reminds me of what my friend the attorney says:
In criminal law, you see bad people behaving their best.
In family law, you see good people behaving their worst.

I think you can arrange for all these legal expenses to be paid out of the estate if you get things all tied up good and proper.

[belladonna]

She really doesn't have that much of a say in where she lives. You mom's wishes to have her live with your dad instead of her dad really have little bearing on the situation-especially since she left no will. Her father has legal rights to his daughter ...

I think this is horrible. There should be some kind of a clause in the law that says parents who financially and physically abandon their children have forfeited any right to them, regardless of circumstances. I've two sons whose father has been absent pretty much since day one, and it's my worst fucking nightmare that something will happen to me and he'll come out of the woodwork to take them away from everything and everyone they know and love. It would literally ruin their lives.

ETH--I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope everything with your sister works out for the best.

[eleanorigby]

Then TAKE STEPS to ensure that that does not happen. Talk to any attorney-set up at trust or similiar, appoint a guardian in case of your death.

Please just don't talk about it as a nightmare--do something.



All of this does take a great deal more time than one would think. We just set up trusts for the kids (d/t them being named as beneficiaries of a life policy from my sister who died last August)--it is finally done--after months of pestering, meetings, signings etc.

It's a slog, but it's worth it.

[Cat Whisperer]

It IS a slog - that's what we're discovering. Two months later, and we are still wrangling with the lawyer to get an administrator appointed for my father's "estate", and nothing else can get done until the admin is appointed. I don't want to discourage you, Ed, but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

I agree with eleanor, belladonna. Discuss it with the people who would be affected, make sure they are okay with becoming guardians, and have a lawyer put it on paper in excrutiating detail, and make sure the people involved *know* where your wills are, too. My dad might have had a will, but nobody knows where it is, so we have to act as if there isn't one.

[GaWd]

Well, Belladonna, that's what family court is for. When faced with one parent who abandons their child, they are much less likely to switch custody or grant increased, court-mandated facetime with the child. However, in my limited experience with California's family court system, the courts always try to get some amount of time with the abandoning parent, because it is for the good of the child-whether or not you agree with it, most child psychologists do. Also, financial support has little impact on visitation rights unless a judge specifically orders that support be paid to visit with the child.

Besides, most parents who run off on their kids and reappear are just going to do it again.


Sam

[Mr. Goob]

At 27 I went through something similar. Get a lawyer, talk talk and talk to your siblings and realize it's going to take a while to get done. Good luck.

---evil grin remembering the conversation with my Aunts talking matter of factly about taking my Grandmothers plates and tablecloth that were handed down to my Mom. I was a little liquored up after the viewing and don't remember if I said trespassers would be shot or arrested for breaking and entering and theft. I just remember wide eyes and them avoiding me after that.

(damn vultures, sorry for the mini hijack.)

[Edward The Head]

So I've contacted a lawyer and have a meeting for Monday. I've no idea how a trust works, but I'm sure that I will soon be finding out. I have been appointed admin for the estate as only two people could do it, myself or my brother. Since my brother lives out of state I was the only one left that could do it unless we hired someone and that costs 9% of the estate.

As for my sister, while I do have the room, soon it will be time to start my own family and we can't aford to move right now. I can't live in my mother's house because it would take me two hours to get to and from work. As of now only my father is the only one who wishes to take care of my sister, and he's not related. Dickhead has already said that he does not want my sister at all.

Really I just needed to vent as all these people keep saying things to other people and not me, or lying directly to me.

[aruvqan]

As for my sister, while I do have the room, soon it will be time to start my own family and we can't aford to move right now. I can't live in my mother's house because it would take me two hours to get to and from work. As of now only my father is the only one who wishes to take care of my sister, and he's not related. Dickhead has already said that he does not want my sister at all.

Really I just needed to vent as all these people keep saying things to other people and not me, or lying directly to me.

Vent on, that is what the internet is for!

But to ask a really rude and blunt question...do you *absolutely* have to start your family now? Would waiting 2 years, and giving a home to your sister really destroy your world? Is there that much difference in starting a family at 31 and at 33? I would think that the absolute best way to keep her out of Dickheads hands would be as the direct sibling.

[GaWd]

Hang in there, Ed. Sooner or later, when the vultures realize there's no carrion, they'll move along and wait for the next relative to pass on and hope for a more vulnerable family member to give them whatever the hell it is that they want.

Sam

[Edward The Head]

But to ask a really rude and blunt question...do you *absolutely* have to start your family now? Would waiting 2 years, and giving a home to your sister really destroy your world?

Well lets just say that some things just can't be avoided. If all goes well there will be even less room in the Eddie household early next year.

I would like to be able to buy a bigger house, but the housing market around here is just crazy. We can't afford anything right now.

[lorinada]

You don't have room?

YOU DON'T HAVE ROOM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

And you're calling someone else a dickhead?

She's your fucking SISTER.

And you're calling someone else a dickhead?

You think putting a little furniture in storage and buying a futon is preferable to sending her off to someone she's not even related to? By blood or marriage anymore?

And you're calling someone else a dickhead?

Oh, oh, here it is - you have to have a baby. NOW. That's why your SISTER is being told she's going to have to be shipped off to someone she's not related to. By blood or marriage anymore.

And you're calling someone else a dickhead?

Jesus freakin' God, I'm sure glad my parents, whom I was estranged from at the time, didn't feel that way when I was laid up in the hospital in a coma, and my son, on the verge of being orphaned (or so the prognosis went, thank God it was wrong) had no place to live.

For that matter, he and I lived together in a very small one-bedroom, one-bath house, yet we still cheerfully offered our home to a woman and her three kids for the winter because she needed extensive and expensive repairs to her gas plumbing and she had no place else to go (because, of course, all her friends with the 3- and 4-bedroom homes "didn't have the room"). Fun? No! A real adjustment? Yes! But how could I say no when they were in dire straits? Sleeping on a warm floor was still better than sleeping in a cold bed. Eating a hot meal with your plate perched in your lap is better than eating cold cereal at your own table every night. Having to schedule your bathroom time to take a hot shower was better than taking a cold shower whenever you wanted in the winter.

Sleeping on the couch at your brother's house is better than being shipped off to someone you have no ties to.

We in the western part of the world have it so cushy we've forgotten how the rest of the world cheerfully lives. Unless you are already six people in an efficiency apartment, I have a really, really tough time believing you "don't have the room". Even then, since there is apparently an estate big enough to fight over, that would be an excuse because presumably you could use the funds for a bigger place. "Nest egg" is all fine and good, but you aren't doing any favors for her if she's treated like a ward of the state becuase there aren't enough funds to accommodate her now.

I think you need to get your own priorities in order before you start calling anyone else dickhead.

Oh, and, that "family" you HAVE to start RIGHT NOW? I hope to God, if something happens to you, whoever you choose to raise them in your place "has the room".

[Green Cymbeline]

As for my sister, while I do have the room, soon it will be time to start my own family and we can't aford to move right now. I can't live in my mother's house because it would take me two hours to get to and from work.

I have to agree with what lorinada said... It's kind of hypocritical that you're criticizing others, yet you won't take her in yourself, even though you're a fully grown adult with gainful employment.

You have an extra bedroom, yes? Why can't she sleep there? Even if you did have a baby, you're not getting married until October, then a baby takes 9 months to cook, so that is like a year... by then your sister will be 17. Many parents have their infants sleep in the same room with them... or your sister can share the room with her niece/nephew. Heck, you'll have a live-in babysitter/helper. Then before you know it, she'll be 18 and off to college.

Or you could move. You are a two-income professional household, yes? And you're getting some cash from the sale of your mother's house, right? If you sold your townhouse, you'd definitely make a profit in the current market. Why can't you get a bigger place?

Or, why can't she live with your brother?

I feel so sad for that poor girl. Don't you think she knows you have an extra room, don't you think that hurts knowing you won't take her in? :(

[Tenar]

Putting aside Edward the Head's priorities, which I don't necessarily agree with, I think you need to read a bit more carefully. There is already a baby due at the beginning of next year. In short, the significant other is already preggers.

[Queen Tonya]

Gosh, let's hope she's not carrying twins, what with the one-child limit and all.

[Uvula Donor]

I have a brother and three sisters. Our parents raised us with an "all for one and one for all" attitude, and to this day any one of us would drop everything to come to another's aid - and we've done so in the past.

There's no question what I would do in your situation, Edward. I'd make room for my sister.

Before this turns into a pile-on, just let me say that the rest of your family aren't the only assholes in your OP. You fucking make me sick.

[Jonathan Chance]

Fuck you all. The guy just lost his mother and he's having to pick up the fucking pieces while being sniped at. He's clearly in 'overwhelmed' mode. Give him a break.

I had to pick up the pieces from my father-in-law when he died because Lady Chance, her brother, and her mom were in no shape to do it and even with no sniping it took me fucking months. Settling an estate from someone who died intestate and with a million loose ends ain't a walk in the park.

Hell, it'll be worse when my grandparents go. Three of us have an agreement to close on their house upon any word that they've passed on to prevent one of my uncles from ransacking the place. Damn relatives are more trouble than they're worth.

Eddie. Just relax. Take a deep breath and get some perspective. I agree that you should try to make some room for your sister if you can but if you can't that's fine.

And you're clearly feeling overwhelmed. The very best thing you can do is get a lawyer to run interference for you. Make sure the estate is valued properly and divided up among the three sibling (you, your brother and your sister) and tell everyone else to fuck off. That's the only way to deal with people like that.

[GaWd]

What a bunch of pricks. Judgemental pricks. Holier-than-thou pricks.

Fucking-A.

What you people would do and what Ed will do are totally different. To level charges that he makes you "sick" because he's decided to let his sister live where her mother wanted her is preposterous. To rip the girl away from all she knows-and all that's stable in her life-her friends, what little family is there and the surroundings of "home", and move her 2 hours away to a place she doesn't know at all or as much and expect someone who's never raised a teenager before and probably isn't too much older than her himself is also preposterous and insulting as all fuck.

Sometimes I am totally ashamed of my fellow dopers. Though considering all things, it doesn't shock me that much.

Sam

[voltaire]

^^^ No shit. These days it seems that people will pounce on anybody just for the sake of (lamely) trying to pull a reverse pitting. That's jerkish behavior, if you ask me.

[TVeblen]

No judgments from here either way, Edward. You're still reeling at the moment from your mother's death at the moment. Most people groupe around in a fog after the death of a parent, much less when it was completely unexpected.

FWIW (not much) something somewhat similar happened in my extended family. The mother, who held the whole family together, died; father was an irresponsible alchoholic. The father couldn't take care of himself, much less anyone else. Two much older sisters, both married and settled; one much younger sister in her early teens.

Both sisters refused to take the younger one in. She was left--at age 13--to act as caretaker for their drunk dad. I leave you to imagine what her growing up years were like. She lost her youth to being a caretaker instead of anyone--anyone--taking care of her. (I had just left for college so my mom tried to bring her live with her. She was blocked by a legal fuss.)

The drunk died fairly early, to the suprise of no one, but the damage--permanent damage--was already done. A rift was driven between those siblings that won't ever heal. The youngest one gets along fairly well with one sister, but there's enormous resentment and guilt under the surface. They never talk about it because no words can undo what was done. The stark fact: when she was grieving, bereft and vulnerable, her sisters rejected her. Full stop. Nobody wanted her. She knows it; they know it. And that decision will color all their lives for the rest of their lives.

You've been hit with a huge loss, too, EtHand it purely sucks, all of it. What sucks even more is that you're faced with a hard choice just when you're already buffeted eight ways for Sunday. But don't underestimate the lasting consequences, on you as well as your sister, of the choices you make now.

Dealing with a teenager can be difficult, much an already deeply traumatized one. It's not an easy decision, especially when you are starting your own family. The timing purely sucks, but so it goes. Choices resonate through families almost endlessly. Just be very sure you can eat what your choice now will put on your plate years on from now.

Good luck to you, no matter what you do, EtH. I'm not in your shoes right now, and neither is anyone else.

Veb

[GingerOfTheNorth]

I think perhaps what Edward The Head is saying, is that his intended is already pregnant. Calm the fuck down, people.

[Cat Whisperer]

Look at it this way - your sister living with you will be a built-in babysitter, and she'll be ready to move out when the kid is old enough to not need so much baby sitting. How perfect is that?

[alice_in_wonderland]

Wow - way to kick someone when he's down folks. I really don't get what the problem is - there is a potential guardian (the step dad), who both wants to take sister in, and is the chosen person by the now deceased mom.

Ya know, it's been a while since I was a 16 year old girl, but if I recall correctly, the idea of babysitting for a new infant in a crowded space with my brother and his wife really wouldn't have appealed all that much. Gee - do I want to talk on the phone with my friends and gosip about boys, or do I want to keep it down because the baby's sleeping - tough choice.

Obviously, if the girl was going to be on the steet, that would be a different matter, but there is a responsable adult with the inclination, recourses and OK from the parent wanting to take this girl in.

Frankly, I think many of you are acting like total cunts.

Ed - I'm sorry about your mom - I hope things get sorted for everyone.

[Rilchiam]

Do you hate her or something? Does she have issues that you don't think you can deal with? Does your intended dislike her? I just don't understand why you have all this handwringing concern that stops short of having her live with you.

In fact, what I'm really seeing here is, "I'm the oldest, so I should be in charge. How dare anyone else have an opinion. And fuck you, Dickhead; now I get to stick it to you." You don't seem concerned for your sister as a person. She's a pawn in all this, and I feel terrible for her.

[danceswithcats]

Well said Jonathan Chance. EtH you have friends in the MAD community. Don't be reluctant, bro.

[Cat Whisperer]

Wait a second - has anyone asked what your sister wants, Ed? At 16, she's pretty close to being self-sufficient; certainly old enough to be asked where she would *like* to live.

[Mama Tiger]

My question is, will the sister living with EtH's dad enable her to stay in the community she's currently in, instead of moving two hours away where she doesn't know anybody except her new-married brother? (And would feeling like a third wheel and forced babysitter really be all that good for her?) I can tell you that as a 16-year-old, being forced to move away from friends/school/etc. can be a truly miserable experience; I had to do it, and I hadn't even just lost my mother.

I'm sure there's more to it than whether EtH has a spare bedroom or not. If moving in with him would tear her away from her friends/school/etc. right now, whereas she could stay right there with his dad, I think that sounds like a really good solution. Especially since that's what her mom wanted. And she knows his dad wants her, and that her brother is trying to find the best solution for everybody.

He's just trying to do the best he can in a really difficult situation, folks. Give him a fucking break.

[Ayesha]

I am sorry for your loss Edward The Head . Death does seem to bring out the worst in peoplem been there experianced that.

All you can do is try to see that your Mom's wishes are carried out to the best of your ability.

[Green Cymbeline]

Our parents raised us with an "all for one and one for all" attitude, and to this day any one of us would drop everything to come to another's aid - and we've done so in the past.
There's no question what I would do in your situation, Edward. I'd make room for my sister.
Before this turns into a pile-on, just let me say that the rest of your family aren't the only assholes in your OP. You fucking make me sick.Both sisters refused to take the younger one in. She was left--at age 13--to act as caretaker for their drunk dad. I leave you to imagine what her growing up years were like. She lost her youth to being a caretaker instead of anyone--anyone--taking care of her.
Amen, Uvula. My mother had 5 siblings, and her mom died when she was 18. Her three younger siblings were left in a house with a drunken violent stepmother. Soon after, my newly married mother took in – at various times – her younger brother and 2 younger sisters. This is while my brother and I were babies. It was the best thing that could have ever happened for everyone – me, my aunts and uncle, and the whole family. My mother and father taking in my aunts and uncle SAVED them, and my subsequent cousins - and in the scheme of things, my family.

For an older brother to blatantly refuse his sister is a slap in the face while she is down, and I cannot imagine anything good coming from it.

He's clearly in 'overwhelmed' mode. Give him a break.
<BALK> Sorry dude, but in my family, nary a nanosecond would pass before I would take in my siblingr. To think that someone would do otherwise truly makes me sick <see above>. You think HE'S overwhelmed?? Imagine being a 16-year-old girl, whose mother just died unexpectedly, who NO ONE wants, whose older brother has a house and a bedroom, but won't take you... for no apparent reason. Now THAT is overwhelming...! :eek:

Do you hate her or something? Does she have issues that you don't think you can deal with? Does your intended dislike her? I just don't understand why you have all this handwringing concern that stops short of having her live with you.
Yeah for real. This is a teen-aged girl, who would live with you for 2 years, tops. You have a 2-bedroom townhouse… what's the friggin big deal? This is your flesh and blood we’re talking about. It might inconvenience you for a brief period of time - but this is her whole life we're talking about.

My question is, will the sister living with EtH's dad enable her to stay in the community she's currently in, instead of moving two hours away where she doesn't know anybody except her new-married brother? (And would feeling like a third wheel and forced babysitter really be all that good for her?)
Heh. Two hours? Yeah, that must be the “in really bad traffic” estimate. Where she lives and where Edward lives are pretty damn close. Like maybe two towns away... Isn't that better that living with her mother's ex-husband whom she has no relation to?

[Rilchiam]

Disclaimer: I apologize in advance if any of this is inaccurate. I just don't like what I've seen so far.

Sadly, this is typical when there’s a large age gap between siblings, or in this case, half-siblings. Edward and sister probably only lived in the same house for a few years, from birth to age 3, 4, maybe 6, so he's probably never had to take her seriously. I noticed this attitude in his other thread about meeting the people who had received his mother’s organs. He didn’t think the poor helpless creature would ever be able to withstand the trauma of meeting someone whose life had been saved by her mother’s donation. It might give her bad dreams or something.

Edward, I don’t believe anyone is saying that you are obligated to let her live with you. And if you two are not close, then she probably shouldn’t. But I think it’s telling that you didn’t tell this story in MPSIMS, as in, “My mother died and I don’t know who my sister is going to live with”, or in IMHO as “How can I resolve this?” or GQ as “What can I do legally?” Your choice to Pit your family puts the focus on the grudge you have against your ex-stepdad, with your sister given all the dignity of a dining room set: you don’t know where to put her.

You haven’t told us anything about how your sister feels about this, except that her father made her cry---and that was presented as just one of the things YOU have to deal with. Why did you make her go back to the table, where the person who had made her so upset still was? Beyond that, has anyone asked her where she wants to live? Or is this her life: other people making her decisions for her?

[TVeblen]

I'm uncomfortable with whatnyctea scandiaca quoted from my post. Not that it wasn't a completely legit use, mind, but I emphatically do not share her binary view, with EtH of course being selfish and indifferent.

The problem with even relevant family anecdotes (including mine) is that they're never prescriptive. No two families are alike, and they're all complex as hell. What works in one family might be a total disaster for another.

EtH is besieged, disraught and needed to vent. We don't know all the details of his family's situation. My post was intended to serve as a reluctant suggestion to him to keep his eye on the long view, even amidst the chaos. Nothing more.

Life isn't a made-for-TV movie. Good eveing, loyal viewers. In this week's script, Edward's grieving younger sister comes to live with him and his pregnant lady. Everyone has a few adorable misunderstandings, then Edward becomes a paterfamilias, and his lady comes to love the little sis because she forgets her grief and loss in wonder and awe of the new baby. Everything settled! Cue the music...

All I meant to suggest to EtH is that it's important--right NOW--to reassure his little sis that she's loved, thoroughly and without reservation, and she isn't just excess baggage to eveyone else's grief. Her old way of life died with her mother, but she needs to flat-out know that she'll have a solid basis for a new life. She's old enough to have a voice and an opinion about where she'll feel most comfortable rebuilding her life.

EtH already stood up for her by protecting her interests. Figuring out how to replace the irreplaceable, i.e. not only a home, but a home sufficient to help her regroup and recover, will take longer. All I wanted to point out is that the sister is probably too numb and devastated to care a whoop about money issues right now. The ultimate prize to keep focused on? Reassuring the sister that she's not alone, and that she won't be alone while she grapples her way out of the unthinkable and unbearable.

Veb

[GaWd]

Edward, I don’t believe anyone is saying that you are obligated to let her live with you.

Actually, I think that's exactly what you and others have said. Please re-read the end of this thread if you need clarification.

Sam

[Cat Whisperer]

Please allow *me* to clarify, too - when I said built-in babysitter, that was mostly tongue-in-cheek; I was not advocating forcing your sister into a life of slavery looking after your kids. A 16 year old needs spending money and to feel useful and like she belongs, and you will need a trusted occasional babysitter. Nobody needs to take advantage of anybody else for there to be mutual benefit to a situation.

[Rilchiam]

Actually, I think that's exactly what you and others have said. Please re-read the end of this thread if you need clarification.

Sam

All right, I should have phrased that differently. In my second post, I had backed down from my initial reaction, and I am now more sensitive to the possibility that Edward and Sister have their own reasons why neither of them want her to live with him.

Though I hate to think of a scenario where she said, "Oh, can't I live with you?" and he said, "Nuh, sorry, you can't; we're having a baby. C'mon, go back to the table like a good girl."

I hope TVeblen won't be offended if I quote this from her second post:

All I meant to suggest to EtH is that it's important--right NOW--to reassure his little sis that she's loved, thoroughly and without reservation, and she isn't just excess baggage to eveyone else's grief. Her old way of life died with her mother, but she needs to flat-out know that she'll have a solid basis for a new life. She's old enough to have a voice and an opinion about where she'll feel most comfortable rebuilding her life.

Again, it just seems to me that Sister is being treated like furniture, and no one is asking her what she wants. Maybe that's not the case; I'd love to be wrong.

And I still want to know why he insisted she go back to the table, instead of taking her away from that very toxic situation.

[Rilchiam]

And I did say I apologized in advance if anything I said was inaccurate.

[GaWd]

This is the problem with people extrapolating on myriad possibilities of the situation...

Why don't we all just back down a bit and let Ed's rant stand as it is, let the advice given stand as it has, and leave the flaying alone for a while. THe dude's been through hell, and when people die unexpectedly, things are spinning. I have no doubt in my mind that there are numerous reasons for Ed wanting things this way, and it's none of our business to comment on it, or play armchair quarterback with his sister's life.

[danceswithcats]

That's the problem. Everyone can back down now, after the nasty shit has been said, after the allegations have been made. Yeah, sure, it's the Pit and all of that good crap, but piling on a person in his situation was uncalled for. Sometimes fighting ignorance has to be done before you hit the 'submit' button.

[Rilchiam]

Does there have to be a sticky saying, "Don't post about your personal business if you don't want negative feedback"? He started the thread.

[danceswithcats]

We've already got that issue covered. IIRC it says, "Don't be a jerk." Piling on someone in his present state of affairs is being a jerk, IMO.

[TVeblen]

We've already got that issue covered. IIRC it says, "Don't be a jerk." Piling on someone in his present state of affairs is being a jerk, IMO.

With all due respect, responding to someone, even in the Pit, doesn't translate into a requirement to flame. It's not an invitation for warm fuzzies and cuddles either, but it's not a requirement to reflexively flame either. ("It's in the Pit! Disengage the brain, loose the gonads and ATTACK!")

I volunteered to mod the Pit because I've seen a lot of threads evolve into thoughtful (though outspoken and decidedly non-PC) discussions that put GD to shame.

Edward the Head vented steam--rightfully--in the Pit. It was a tricky, though correct, placement. The associated perils go with it.

[clairobscur]

Yeah, sure, it's the Pit and all of that good crap, but piling on a person in his situation was uncalled for.

The OP might be down, but like apparently many other posters, I've several big issues with his statements. Namely :

-He seems to want to decide all by himself : where his sister should live, how the estate should be handled. And I can't see how he could have any more right than his siblings to decide so. Why in particular should he keep all the money and decide who's going to get it, when and for what purpose? What about his other adult sibling? What about his young sister? Why should she wait until 25 and would need the agreement of her older brother to use her money (asuming that's legally possible). The OP really doesn't appear to be overtly concerned with other involved people's opinions, nor apparently with what the law could have to say.


-I couldn't help but notice that nowhere in the OP the young sister's wishes were mentionned. In particular about whom she would want to live with. Only the Op's opinion is, and how things should be handled according to him. What does *she* think about living with her father, more specifically?


-Like many other posters, I'm shocked that the OP isn't willing to take in his little sister on IMO poor pretenses (but nevertheless rant about other people doing the same). That said, if he's unwilling to, she'd probably be better off living with someone else who's willing. But then, maybe the OP should also let this other person try to figure out what the best for the little sister too. Or the sister herself, as far as it is legally possible. I'm not sure someone who isn't willing to accept the inconveniences is the best person to make the calls.



Losing one's parent is of course difficult, but reading the OP, I'm nevertheless strongly disturbed by his stance. Maybe there's more to the story, but I can't help feeling much more concerned about the young sister than about the poster. Worst, his words make him appear so controling to me that I've few confidence in the thruthness of the negative comments he's making about other members of the family.


So, yes, ussually expression of sympathy should be expected, but in this case, from what I can gather, the OP is heading to what appears to me a really wrong direction, and other people besides him are involved and could pay the price of his attitude, so I don't think criticicism is out of place.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>I volunteered to mod the Pit because I've seen a lot of threads evolve into thoughtful (though outspoken and decidedly non-PC) discussions that put GD to shame.
<snip>
This is what keeps me coming back here.

Those of you flaming Ed, maybe the best thing to ask yourself is what is your motivation for doing so? What outcome do you want here? Do you just want Ed to feel badly, or do you want to help Ed find a direction that works for everyone? Is attacking him going to get you want you want?

[OpalCat]

Damn. This thread is bringing out protective Mama Bear instincts in me. Edward, you're one of my best friends and it is painful to me to see people treating you like this when you're going through such a terrible time. I wish I could come over and give you a hug, but dangit, I moved to Atlanta.

Your mom made the decision during her life that your father would be your sister's guardian if she should die. Your father agreed to this. I assume that your sister and your father know each other and aren't total strangers, right? Anyway, you are following your mother's wishes about what is best for your sister, and I hope that a bunch of quick-to-judge strangers on an internet message board won't make you lose sight of that.

I'm sure that if there were no other options, if the plans your mother had already made weren't in place and workable, that you would open your home to your sister. I know you care about her. I don't know all the details of your family situation right now, but most of these people know even less. Don't let them get you down, they're just used to making up their minds and mouthing off without thinking.

There are a lot of us MADs and Ex-MADs who care a lot about you. Hang in there. Email me if you need to.

[Green Cymbeline]

Those of you flaming Ed, maybe the best thing to ask yourself is what is your motivation for doing so? What outcome do you want here?
A lot of people (myself included) are really astounded/shocked/disturbed/offended that he won't take his sister in. It makes an already sad situation many times worse. From my point of view, it's the height of selfishness… but then again, I come from a very close, large, loving family; I guess he doesn't. If this happened to any of my younger siblings (if I had any) or any of my younger cousins, I would be the first to step up and open my home to them. The outcome I would like to see if for Edward to reevaluate the situation and his attitude and offer to take his sister in, and ask her if she would prefer that to any other options.

What makes the situation even more disturbing and worthy of criticism is the hypocrisy and backpedaling, seen for example in the following statements:

So basically my sister has no place to go. I cannot take her because I do not have the room.
Two posts later he says:
As for my sister, while I do have the room, soon it will be time to start my own family and we can't aford to move right now.
1) Falsehood one: The guy lives in a two-bedroom home. He has the room. He changes his stance and admits it in statement #2.
2) Falsehood two: If he's getting a third of the profits from the sale of his mother's house, plus the fact that he now has a two-income household, plus the fact he would surely make a hefty profit from the sale of his own house, surely he could afford a bigger place, if he wanted to. But clearly he just doesn't want to. And IMHO, that makes me feel really bad for that poor 16-year-old motherless - and now familyless - girl.

[alice_in_wonderland]

A whole boat load of bullshit...

Wow - do you feel better now that you've judged and condemned this man that you've never met, who's in a shitty situation, and is trying to find the best solution for his little sister and getting nothing but a shit-storm from her family, his family and a bunch of bone heads on a message board?

Good, I’m so glad.

My God your a sanctimonious bitch.

[OpalCat]

I don't see it as he *won't* take his sister in, I see it as he *isn't* taking his sister in. I feel confident that if there were no other options, that he would take her in. However, his mother already made provisions for her care, and he is following through on those. He also added that it would be inconvenient for him because of the lack of room given his impending family addition, but I think te more important issue here is that he doesn't NEED to take her in because his father has already agreed to do so, at the request of his mother.

EtH, correct me if I'm wrong, but if it were the choice of your sister on the streets or your sister in your home, you'd take her in, right? But those aren't the current options.

[OpalCat]

Wow - do you feel better now that you've judged and condemned this man that you've never met,


Err, she's met him, to say the least.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Err, she's met him, to say the least.

She's not his pregnant wife, I hope, 'cus that would make her posts, and mine, totally bizzare...

[OpalCat]

Ha... no that would be too bizarre. It isn't my business to explain the nature of their relationship, but I will say they know each other quite well.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I will say they know each other quite well.

Ah. Well, there's a good chance that my post was entirely too snarky, given the circumstances, so I apologize to nyctea for being a bag.

However, I do think if you know each other that well, perhaps you should phone Ed and discuss your concerns with him IRL instead of ranting on a message board, assuming you two are friends and whatnot.

YMMV, void where prohibited, etc. I'll leave now.

[Anita Vacation]

Wow - do you feel better now that you've judged and condemned this man that you've never met, who's in a shitty situation, and is trying to find the best solution for his little sister and getting nothing but a shit-storm from her family, his family and a bunch of bone heads on a message board?

Good, I’m so glad.

My God your a sanctimonious bitch.

Please don't apologize to her. Take out "...that you've never met..." and you've said exactly what several people who do know her and have also met EtH would also say.

[Green Cymbeline]

Please don't apologize to her. Take out "...that you've never met..." and you've said exactly what several people who do know her and have also met EtH would also say.
Anita, you have a much younger sister. If your mom/dad had died when she was 16, and no other family would/could take her, and you had a good job and a house, I KNOW you would have taken your sister in. If you refused to, I would say the same thing about you too.

By the way, I wouldn't say you KNOW me, Anita, and I certainly wouldn't say that I know the OP well. That is not the case.

[Rilchiam]

Is he going to come back to the thread? I don't think he is.

Maybe he's busy, or out of town.

I hope that's it. I hope it's not a matter of, he'd rather avoid an unpleasant discussion. Because he didn't give his sister that choice.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I certainly wouldn't say that I know the OP well. [/SIZE]

Well, if you don't know him well, why do you keep posting about his circumstances as though you have some unique, valuable insight?

And why do you keep doing it here? It's really making you look like someone not to know in real life.

[Helen's Eidolon]

Although this saying usually doesn't apply in the Pit, I'd say it fits in just fine here. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Not to mention how much easier it is to TALK about completely rearranging your life to make room for someone than DOING it.

Best wishes that everything works out, Edward.

[OpalCat]

and no other family would/could take her

Here is the relevant bit that makes all the difference. Her mother arranged for EtH's father (not blood related but still family) to take her, and HE AGREED. This is NOT a situation where "no one would/could take her" and so you're comparing apples to oranges here.

[Anita Vacation]

By the way, I wouldn't say you KNOW me, Anita, and I certainly wouldn't say that I know the OP well. That is not the case.

I'm grateful that we mustn't bring beefs we have IRL to this board. I will limit my comments to say that I find your posts here and in countless other threads in the past to be appalling. Your lack of sensitivity seems bottomless.

I do know you well enough to know to steer very clear of you. Once again I'm reassured that my instincts are right.

[eleanorigby]

I can't say for sure what I would do, if ever faced with this type of thing. I give the OP credit for laying it out here for advice and support. He gets alot of not so nice advice and support, too, but such is the nature of the beast.

Like others, I just want that girl to know she is loved and that she MATTERS. So many teens feel like they don't matter to other people. She is ill-equipped to deal with all that is on her plate right now.

Just my maternal 2 cents, but I suggest counselling, a stable place to stay and if at all possible, for her to stay in her school and with her current friends.

[Edward The Head]

Geez you go out of town and talk to a lawyer for a couple of days and it turns in to a train wreck.

First off, I never said, or meant, that I wouldn't take my sister. If need be I would of course no matter how hard on me it would be. However, my father, who does not live in the exact same area, he only lives a few miles away. She will not be able to go to the same school, but she can at least keep the same friends. My father also knows my sister a lot better then I do. Even though he's not the real father, he helps out my sister by giving her money, talking to her about sex, and all sorts of things that no one else would. He's more of a father then anyone else ever could be.

Yes I have asked my sister where she wants to go, do you really think I'm that fucking stupid not to ask? She has gone back and forth about going to California or staying here in Maryland. She's being a typical 16yo and not giving a straight answer. I know she's got to have it hard and I've been supportive as I possibly can. But you know that's hard when you've got people threatening to beat you up because I dare show up at lunch to see why my sisters crying. Or when people are taking things of your mother's and you have to stop them so you can get a value and they cry saying you don't care about your dead mother.

For the record I do care about my sister, I have been trying to help as best as I know how. I call my sister a lot more now then I ever have. I go to see her. I've taken her out for movies, dinner, all sorts of things to let her know we care.

If anyone wants to take over be my guest. You can deal with the aunts and uncles telling you every time you see them that the house belongs to your sister and you can't have anything from it. Or deal with the other side of the family who keeps saying they want to help but don't. They say they will take my sister, but when I take three days off of work, after the two for my mother's death, only to be told they didn't think she'd be staying with them.

But since the fine people around here seem so smart lets take a pole and find out who my sister should stay with.

1.) Me, the oldest, who will soon be getting married, expecting early next year, small house, and can move her to a totally different area. And just for the record I would be willing to take her in if need be.

2.) Her abusive father, who also drinks, has told her he doesn't want her, doesn't come to see her, and I'm not even sure where the hell he lives.

3.) My brother, who lives 1000 miles away and is working on his masters degree.

4.) My aunt who lives in my mother's house though she doesn't come home until 7-8 at night every night.

5.) My uncle, who has wavered on if he wants to take her or not, though he would be a good choice since he has a stable family, home and job.

6.) My father, though not the bio dad, has helped out, has a good job, home and family, and has told me a number of times, including not five minutes ago that he wants to take my sister.

If you've answered anything but the last two then you're a moron. I know the ins and outs of the situation.

Hell I came to bitch about the people who are trying to manipulate me because they think they can. One day, when someone close to you dies, you'll probably see how bad people can get over crap. I've heard about it but I sure as hell didn't believe it.

[Anita Vacation]

My condolences. Please know that my thoughts are with you and your sister. I'm hopeful that she will end up in a loving home.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip> One day, when someone close to you dies, you'll probably see how bad people can get over crap. I've heard about it but I sure as hell didn't believe it.
I thought my family would be different, too. Then my sister started getting mad at me for trying to help with things before our dad was even buried. Death and grief stress people out, and unfortunately they tend to snap at those closest to them.