Why salt, and no ketchup.

[stevefeinstein]

I've lived in NY, NC, So CA, No CA, MA, NH and have traveled through most of the states in between. In my travels I've been to a lot of fast food restaurants.

Often french fries are part of my order, a side dish traditionally served with ketchup. So why when going through the many hundreds of drive throughs I've been through do they almost invariably never put ketchup packets in the bag unless you ask (and you never remember to ask until you've driven away.)

What makes it worse, is they seem to always put salt packets in the bag, so it's obvious that some attention has gone towards my seasoning and condiment needs. It just doesn't make sense, most places will salt the fries when they come out of the oil, so there's no need to salt them with the packets in the bag. But fries don't come pre-ketchuped so the lack of that addition to my sack-o-goodness really seems rather spiteful.

It's as if they go out of their way to see that my enjoyment of those greasy crunchy sticks of gold are less than optimum.

To be fair, the primary offenders seem to be the largest of the fast food places. McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's. Smaller places seem to believe in proper condimentary White Castle never forgets.

So does anyone know why this is?

[Johnny L.A.]

In a drive-through, it's probably assumed that you will eat while driving. It seems to me that most drivers are not going to want to mess with catsup while driving because it's messy; so the take-out can save money by not giving out catsup that will not be used. As for salt, I can't remember the last time I received salt packets. The fries are invariably already salted. Note that salt isn't as messy as catsup.

[GorillaMan]

Salt & Vinegar, surely?



(Slight hijack....maybe it's the ultimate fate of Pulp Fiction's, but mayonaisse on chips/fries is increasing its popularity in Britain....Hellman's is using it in their advertising)

[Johnny L.A.]

(Slight hijack....maybe it's the ultimate fate of Pulp Fiction's, but mayonaisse on chips/fries is increasing its popularity in Britain....Hellman's is using it in their advertising)
Well, catsup is salt & vinegar... plus tomatoes. ;)

I've been in the Pacific Northwest for almost two years, and I've only recently learned something: Around here, it's normal to eat fries with tartar sauce as an alternative to catsup.

[Exapno Mapcase]

I have never once had salt put into a bag with french fries.

As for ketchup, believe it or not, there are even Americans who don't like ketchup on french fries. And ketchup packages do cost money, so management insists on not handing them out to anyone who doesn't ask.

[Mr2001]

I've been in the Pacific Northwest for almost two years, and I've only recently learned something: Around here, it's normal to eat fries with tartar sauce as an alternative to catsup.
There's also "fry sauce", which seems to be ketchup mixed with mayonnaise, and sometimes something else (maybe tartar). Zip's and A&W are the only places that have it consistently. (Do you have Zip's over by Bellingham?)

The only place I've seen that gives out salt with fries is Wendy's, where it's necessary because their fries aren't salty at all. I used to always get ketchup packets at BK, but they stopped doing it on their own a few years ago, and now I usually forget to ask. I assume they stopped because management figured out that many people just throw them away, so they can save a few pennies by only giving them out to those who ask.

[Johnny L.A.]

No Zips in B'ham, but pard Jerry lived in Spokane for a while and he said we should stop at Zips when we went out to do that FOX shoot. We were rushing to get there, so we didn't stop on the way. We forgot on the way out.

[Longgrain]

Salt & Vinegar, surely?



(Slight hijack....maybe it's the ultimate fate of Pulp Fiction's, but mayonaisse on chips/fries is increasing its popularity in Britain....Hellman's is using it in their advertising)

Mayonaisse on fries? MMMMMMmmmmmmmm

Not enough Americans know of this.

[NoClueBoy]

I don't like ketchup (catsup) on my fries. Hell, most of the time I would prefer a bigger drink instead of having fries at all.

Try Wendy's Frosty with fries. The fries have to be fresh, mind you. Use them as tho the Frosty were a dip and the fries chips. Pure savory delight!

[Mr. Blue Sky]

So does anyone know why this is?


It's an expense issue. The boxes of ketchup packets cost money and they don't charge for them. The fewer they give away, the lower their costs. I used to work for a company that sold that kind of stuff. A box of 200 ketchup packets cost about $9. The smallest amount of salt packets we sold contained 1000 packets and cost about $3.

I don't know what the profit margin is in a fast food place, but I would imagine it to be fairly low. You cut corners where you can.

[Balthisar]

Back in the early 90's, the price of a single catsup packet a McD's in West Germany was 15 pfennigs, the same as for packets of mayonaise. I'd paid for both, as mayo on fries (even pre-Pulp Fiction) is simply delicious.

Typically, I'm sick and tired of American fries anywhere in general. But man, those independant places in Germany that deep fried their fries in tallow -- I could go for some of those right now! And instead of mayo or catsup, a little bit of the curry sauce that they used...

[bordelond]

It's an expense issue. The boxes of ketchup packets cost money and they don't charge for them. The fewer they give away, the lower their costs. I used to work for a company that sold that kind of stuff. A box of 200 ketchup packets cost about $9. The smallest amount of salt packets we sold contained 1000 packets and cost about $3.

I don't know what the profit margin is in a fast food place, but I would imagine it to be fairly low. You cut corners where you can.
Yup. I have a mundane anecdote to share in line with this -- not with the fast food industry, but with the mid-scale restaurant industry.

I was a waiter back in the day. One day, before the dinner shift, the manager did a little demonstration of just how much money was wasted by unused condiments and sweeteners. He was fishing unopened packets of artificial sweeteners, sugar, salad dressing, salt and pepper, etc. out of the side station garbage can. The manager went into a whole spiel into how much each item cost individually, and of how much "wasted money" he was able to fish out of the garbage just from that one smallish can.

Around this same time, many local fast food places quit giving away unrequested condiments -- though they were still available on request. So the whole "save on condiments" thing just kind of struck me as something the food service industry woke up to 10-15 years ago. What were once throw-ins became areas in which losses could me minimized -- in turn, padding the bottom line.

[Bookkeeper]

Mayonaisse on fries? MMMMMMmmmmmmmm

Not enough Americans know of this.
ABout thirty years ago, I was waiting for a train in Brussels and went to the French fry stand in the square outside for a quick lunch. They had over two dozen different flavours of mayonaisse (plus ketchup) to put on them.

[Bomzaway]

I've only occassionally received salt with my order unless I go to In and Out Burger, which I think is a California only restaurant. (If you ever get one of their bumper stickers, cut off the B and the R in "burger" and... oh never mind)

I guess we should be grateful, as Balthisar mentioned, they charge for Ketchup in some countries.

[dropzone]

As for ketchup, believe it or not, there are even Americans who don't like ketchup on french fries.But French fries exist solely as a vehicle for ketchup or other sauce! Your date will probably accept you eating ketchup with your fries but would walk out if you started sucking ketchup directly from the packet.

[Johnny L.A.]

But French fries exist solely as a vehicle for ketchup or other sauce!
I thought French fries were nothing more than matrices for holding grease. :p

[Balthisar]

I've only occassionally received salt with my order unless I go to In and Out Burger, which I think is a California only restaurant.

And Nevada and Arizona.

[awldune]

Another wasted catsup scenario is where you take the food home and use catsup from a bottle.

When I was a kid, we would be throwing away at least half a dozen packets anytime we got fast food.

It really annoys me when I wanted catsup and forget to ask for it. They need to be better about asking whether you want it.

[Dr_Paprika]

I hate it when they put salt packets in with the drive through fries. Reaching blindly in the bag, the salt packet always seem to land in the fry box. I seem to end up eating the packet much of the time.

I do not eat fried potatoes often. But true fry connossieurs know:

1. Ketchup is an abomination.
2. Vinegar is a good fry topping.
3. Tartar sauce and light italian salad dressing are really good.
4. Mayonnaise is okay, but better if flavoured with other things.
5. The best fries ever (double fried in peanut oil, lots of tasty sauces) are sold in Montreal at Tintin-tableclothed "Frites Alors!".
6. The British also eat fries with curry sauce. This can be purchased as a just-add-water powder in England, but can be found in Canada if you look hard enough. This is probably the same sauce used in Germany. I find it okay -- my Dad loves this stuff. He also mixes all the food on the plate together and adds HP sauce. True fry connossieurs understand this about my Dad.

[Balthisar]

Another wasted catsup scenario is where you take the food home and use catsup from a bottle.

But these catsups and salsas and so on then become great for brown-bagging your lunch!

[Bomzaway]

1. Ketchup is an abomination.


This from a Canadian, where the ungodly French fry based meal Poutin was born.

:p

[gigi]

Typically, I'm sick and tired of American fries anywhere in general. But man, those independant places in Germany that deep fried their fries in tallow --
:eek: Isn't that what candles are made from ?? I know there's paraffin in soft ice cream, but still...

I choose mayo but am also intrigued by the whole fries and gravy idea. Related to the OP, BK always asks if I want onion rings sauce ("zesty sauce"which may be something like tartar sauce??) with my o-rings; again, I am interested but always say no because of the coordination issues invoved in dipping on the highway.

[MC$E]

Many places are not salting the fries, or using less than they used too. I think it's all part of the healthier image they are trying to create for fast food. Plus, if they lower the standard amount of salt, the mandatory nutrition information for that product looks better.

I have gotten fries that were almost inedible, because they did not salt them, and they forgot to add salt packs to the bag. Wendy's is the worst for that, but the other places do it too.

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

My mom used to save up all our fast food ketchup packets, then snip open the corners and use them to refill our bottle at home. In college, most bachelors never buy their own condiments, relying instead on a steady supply of fast food condiment packets in a drawer or forgotten corner of the fridge.

[hazel-rah]

The best fries ever (double fried in peanut oil, lots of tasty sauces) are sold in Montreal at Tintin-tableclothed "Frites Alors!".

Frite Alors serves Belgian-style frites... they're fried in horse fat, not peanut oil.

[Gangster Octopus]

Ketchup is horrible, there is not a single item that is improved with ketchup and when I am lording over you all, ketchup will be outlawed and only outlaws will have ketchup.

[Exapno Mapcase]

And I'll be an outlaw.

[easy e]

Try Wendy's Frosty with fries. The fries have to be fresh, mind you. Use them as tho the Frosty were a dip and the fries chips. Pure savory delight!

I'll second this. The combo is surprisingly good. In high school, our swim team would stop at Wendy's after our meets and that's what I'd always get.

[BoringDad]

Try Wendy's Frosty with fries. The fries have to be fresh, mind you. Use them as tho the Frosty were a dip and the fries chips. Pure savory delight!
I'll third this. My wife rolls her eyes every time I do it though.

Tallow is rendered beef fat. Yes, people used to make candles out of it, but it is the best tasting and least healthy way to make fries. McDonalds used to use it for their fries up until something like 10 years ago. Then health conscious people said "HOW much saturated fat is in these things? Holy cow!" and vegetarians said "My fries are covered in WHAT?"

Americans eat enough really bad food, no need change our relatively benign ketchup for fat soaked mayo. Especially since mayo on fries is an abomination. Ketchup is needed on cold fries, but hot crisp fries only need salt. Enough salt so that you can see the individual crystals. Mmmm salt. I seem to have wandered away from factual answers, so I will stop now.

[capybara]

The best fries (this is so headed for cafe society):
The place on the plaza by the Kapellekerk in Brussels.
A place called Frituur Papegaai in Ghent. The dodgy place on the Vrijdagmarkt comes in third, but get extra points for the brilliant horse-garlic sausage.
Best sauces: Samourai (kind of mayo with cayenne etc); Oorlog (mix of, like thai chili, peanut sauce, ketchup, onion?, curry and mayo and a couple of other things? I see it more in NL than BE). Tomato ketchup, IMO, is for children and other lovers of infantile sweets.
I am a fry snob.

[MissGypsy]

In college, most bachelors never buy their own condiments, relying instead on a steady supply of fast food condiment packets in a drawer or forgotten corner of the fridge.

If you change the words "in college" to "in my home" and "bachelors" to "people in my family", you're correct. We have a couple of large bags of condiments stashed away, so we don't have to buy them as often. Taco sauce, tarter sauce, salt, ketchup, mustard, mayo, malt vinegar, etc. They always give us far more than we could use at one meal, so I just stash the extra.

[dnooman]

Many places are not salting the fries, or using less than they used too. I think it's all part of the healthier image they are trying to create for fast food.

This is basically what I thought. Salt is usually expected to already be on the fries, not so with ketchup. One who forgets to ask for ketchup, has only themselves to blame, since it would be wastefull to include ketchup when it might not be used. A person that asks for fries and recieves them sans salt, might be more justifiably upset. Also, salt is cheap.

I like ketchup with my fries, but often find it too inconvenient or time consuming to mess with it. Especially, if I'm in the car eating.

My sister went to Amsterdam a few years ago and came back raving about (I know I'll mispell this) frit saus. Fritte sauce? She said it's similar to mayo, but much better. I'm sure somebody like CKDexterhaven will have a recipe.

[Excalibre]

But French fries exist solely as a vehicle for ketchup or other sauce! Your date will probably accept you eating ketchup with your fries but would walk out if you started sucking ketchup directly from the packet.
I guess it depends on whether you date guys or girls. Because I, as a guy, would not walk out on a date who insisted on sucking viscous liquids out of things.

[Balthisar]

Something else bugs me on the opposite extreme. If I'm going to eat parked in my car because I have a few minutes to burn, then I'll ask for ketchup like so: "Could I get two or three ketchups, please?" I seem to almost always get an entire handful of ketchup. Wasteful as hell.

[jim_marren@yahoo.com]

In and Out burger are great fries - and the only thing better are "wet fries" the fries with gravy mentioned above.

Cuisine commentary from Canada...

"America Lite" seems to have the answer for everything, just not a good way of implementing it.

:wally

[Johnny L.A.]

In and Out burger are great fries
This is liable to send the thread straight tino IMHO, but I can't let this one slide.

In-N-Out fries are bad, m'kay? I can't abide soggy fries. You want good fries? Go to Fatburger (who have better burgers as well, incidentally).

[jim_marren@yahoo.com]

Where's Fatburger? I have never had the pleasure...

I agree that it is all opinion, but I think there is something to be said for fries that are made from potatoes, with remaining bits of skin on, but I don't know if they are pre-frozen or not...

[Gangster Octopus]

In-N-Out fries are bad, m'kay? I can't abide soggy fries. You want good fries? Go to Fatburger (who have better burgers as well, incidentally).

This is tantamount to heresy to many a SoCal, but I agree 100%.

[Johnny L.A.]

Where's Fatburger? I have never had the pleasure...

Fatburger is mostly a SoCal thing, though there are a few in other states. I think there is even one in Washington, but too far south to do me any good. :(
This is tantamount to heresy to many a SoCal, but I agree 100%.
The contrary is also heresy to many. The battle between Fatburger and In-N-Out is an old one.

[whiterabbit]

There's a Fatburger that just opened a little ways up the road from me, and I know they have one in New Orleans, so they seem to be expanding. I have to go there sometime, I have fond memories of them in LA.

I hate ketchup and mayo. Now, that curry sauce stuff sounds interesting. Yum!

[Charlie Tan]

Is Uncle Frank's still around in Chicago?

Anyway - Fries are best when served as part of the combo Moulles et frites... simply devine. Of course, catsup has no place within a mile of this ambrosia.

[DrDeth]

In-N-Out fries are bad, m'kay? I can't abide soggy fries.

Then- order the fries 'well done". No really- I&O has quite a few option that they don't put on the (very small) menu.

[Johnny L.A.]

Then- order the fries 'well done". No really- I&O has quite a few option that they don't put on the (very small) menu.
Tried that before. Still not as good as Fatburger.

[Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy]

Steak & Shake. Best. Fries. Ever.

Oh, and ketchup?

Just say no.

[Pullet]

Back in the early 90's, the price of a single catsup packet a McD's in West Germany was 15 pfennigs, the same as for packets of mayonaise. I'd paid for both, as mayo on fries (even pre-Pulp Fiction) is simply delicious.

Typically, I'm sick and tired of American fries anywhere in general. But man, those independant places in Germany that deep fried their fries in tallow -- I could go for some of those right now! And instead of mayo or catsup, a little bit of the curry sauce that they used...

If you're in California, In and Out Burger still fries thier fries in Tallow, or so I'm told.

Damn it, now I want fries!

[Cub Mistress]

Frite Alors serves Belgian-style frites... they're fried in horse fat, not peanut oil.


Really? I have never heard that before and it doesn't sound very tasty to me.

[Pullet]

Frite Alors serves Belgian-style frites... they're fried in horse fat, not peanut oil.

Yeah, this seems strange to me too. I know horse meat as human food is relatively common in certain parts of Europe. But getting horse products for human food seems difficult on this side of the pond. Maybe the Frite Alors in Belgium still use horse fat, but the one in Montreal has to use peanut? Anyone got a source?

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Oh, and ketchup?

Just say no.

Except for hot dogs.


What?

[Gangster Octopus]

Except for hot dogs.


What?

You are dead to me.

[Dr. Rieux]

Ketchup is the Devil's nosebleed.

[Hombre]

Salt, No Ketchup

I think so...

[Mr. Blue Sky]

You are dead to me.


[Darth Vader]Noooooooooooooooooooo......[/DV]

[BoringDad]

Ketchup is the Devil's nosebleed.
You say that as if it is a bad thing?
Fancy franks get brown mustard.
Ball park hot dogs get ketchup.

Yellow mustard is associated with the Devil's more unmentionable bodily functions.

And not mentioned so far this thread... Coated fries (as at Burger King) are an abomination.

[jsgoddess]

6. The British also eat fries with curry sauce. This can be purchased as a just-add-water powder in England, but can be found in Canada if you look hard enough.

Who do I have to bribe to get me some o' dat?

[rjk]

You say that as if it is a bad thing?
Fancy franks get brown mustard.
Ball park hot dogs get ketchup.

Yellow mustard is associated with the Devil's more unmentionable bodily functions.

And not mentioned so far this thread... Coated fries (as at Burger King) are an abomination.
I agree about the ketchup* and yellow mustard. But what are BK fries coated with?


*Except for the so-called "banana ketchup" you can get in some Asian markets, but that's only for dipping grilled cheese sandwiches. Get the hot variety. And ball-park dogs are demonic too.

[Philster]

A proper french fry doesn't need catsup. Your insulting the great fast food cooks everywhere.

Isn't the grease and sodium enough?

Mayo? Americans need mayo on their french fries like <insert appropriate funny analogy here>.

[Caractacus Pott]

JSGoddess-

No bribes needed. As you're in Ohio, just head to Jungle Jim's (http://www.junglejims.com/) in Cincinnati. They have all your international foods. If I remember correctly, the Heinz curry sauce is near the far back corner of the store under the large tree with Robin Hood in it (AKA in the British Foods section). If you need other curry products, the India Foods section is not far from there. I always like going there because it's like a trip overseas without the inconvenience of flying...

Who do I have to bribe to get me some o' dat?

[Ragiel]

You say that as if it is a bad thing?
Fancy franks get brown mustard.
Ball park hot dogs get ketchup.

Yellow mustard is associated with the Devil's more unmentionable bodily functions.

And not mentioned so far this thread... Coated fries (as at Burger King) are an abomination.

McDonald's in my neighborhood switched to coated fries sometime last year. :(
And Steak & Shake is too far away to run to on foot. :(
What's more, all the local Wendy's, in keeping with their "never precooked" practice, serve burgers that taste as if they had been sitting open in the refrigerator for days. Not quite rancid. :(

It's enough to drive one to healthier eating.

[Mr2001]

I agree about the ketchup* and yellow mustard. But what are BK fries coated with?
I vaguely recall, from the introduction of the new fries several years ago, that they have some kind of flavoring on the outside that's also supposed to hold the heat in.

I have nothing against "coated" fries. The ones at BK taste fine to me, and proper curly fries (as seen at Arby's or Jack in the Box) are always covered with something.

[Balthisar]

I vaguely recall, from the introduction of the new fries several years ago, that they have some kind of flavoring on the outside that's also supposed to hold the heat in.

The BK ones suck IMHO. The coating is some type of starch thing that's supposed to keep the fries from getting soggy too quick, so that they don't have to throw them away so fast (slow times). Luckily they wised up and let you substitute onion rings for the same price if you don't like their crappy fries.

[BoringDad]

I vaguely recall, from the introduction of the new fries several years ago, that they have some kind of flavoring on the outside that's also supposed to hold the heat in.

I have nothing against "coated" fries. The ones at BK taste fine to me, and proper curly fries (as seen at Arby's or Jack in the Box) are always covered with something.
The BK fries coating is not even a flavoring, just a non-soggifier. So if the fries are too old and get cold, insead of cold soggy fries that you throw away you get cold tasteless cardboard sticks. Even ketchup cannot save them. Perhaps coated fries are the reason people use mayo? To completely drown all cardboad immitation fry flavor?