US banknotes

[TomH]

There have been several threads about currency recently (British currency, photocopying US banknotes), which reminded me of something I have often wondered about:

Why are US banknotes all the same size and colour?

Whenever I visit the USA, I find myself having to get all the notes out of my wallet and examine them carefully before handing them over. A $20 bill looks pretty much like a $1 bill at first glance and I have to "read" the note each time.

In England and Wales,* we have four denominations of banknote (£5, £10, £20 & £50). The higher the denomination, the bigger the note (£5 = 13cm x 7cm). Each note is a different colour (£5 = blue/green, £10 = orange/brown, £20 = blue/purple & £50 = red/orange). We also change the designs from time-to-time, for example, we have just introduced a new £20 note featuring Edward Elgar (apparently they like facial hair: it's difficult to forge).

Even without my glasses on (I'm very short-sighted), I can tell at a glance (and at a distance) the denomination of a British banknote.

It strikes me that our system is superior, but then again it's what I'm used to and I'm sure that there is some good reason why the US does things the way it does. Can anybody tell me what it is, though?


[*Scotland and Northern Ireland issue their own banknotes, but notes from any part of the UK are legal tender in any other part (just don't try explaining that to the cabbie at Euston at 6.00 a.m. when you've just got off the Caledonian Sleeper with a pocket full of Bank of Scotland notes).]

[HeyHomie]

1) The Mint is too cheap to invest in different kinds of ink, and to start making the bills in different sizes would require the investment of millions of dollars in new cutting equipment,

2) Americans are squeamish about radical changes to their currency (I, for one, love the new Sackies, but the new 5's & 10's freak me out a little),

3) It just might be that the introduction of new bills (that's what we call "notes" here) is the first step toward bringing on bills of new sizes and colors, but that reeks of conspiracy theorism and I CERTAINLY don't want to go down THAT road.

My $.02 (£ .0165)

[Annie-Xmas]

I agree with that--it's just cheaper to make all
bills one color and size.

Also, once you figure out the bills, they are
the same in the whole country. It's not like
everytime you travel 100 miles, you have to
change money. It's a system being used
on a very large scale.

[TomH]

I can see that it might be cheaper to print the notes all the same size and colour, but surely the cost of printing is de minimis in terms of the total Federal Government budget? After all, the UK, which has a much smaller population and a smaller GDP per capita can afford to do it.

[RealityChuck]

They're all the same color because they've always been the same color.

Well, pretty much. There used to be gold and silver certificates, which had a different second color of ink on the face (for the serial number and treasury seal). They haven't made those in a long time. All bills are now "Federal Reserve Notes."

Every once in awhile, a suggestion is made to color code the bills. No one is interested. Americans tend to think of money of colors other than the U.S. dollar as being "Monopoly money" (i.e., a toy and not to be trusted). Also the color green is associated with money in most Americans' minds; other colors seem wrong. The Bureau of Printing of Engraving has been unable to get anyone interested in a different color scheme; they got enough flak for the simple redesign.

Same thing for size. American currancy has been the same size for decades, and there's no groundswell of opinion to change it.

Americans are very conservative when it comes to their money. And since the Bureau of Printing of Engraving seems unable to dictate what to use (e.g., dollar coin, $2 bill), they have to stick with what people are comfortable with.

[Motorgirl]

Originally posted by TomH

Even without my glasses on (I'm very short-sighted), I can tell at a glance (and at a distance) the denomination of a British banknote.

We can do that, too. It's a matter of familiarity.
Even without my glasses, from a long way away I can
tell, at a glance, the difference between a 1, 5, 10, 20,
50 and 100.

When you've been handling the currency for 30 years,
it is second nature.

[stuyguy]

Tom asked:

"Why are US banknotes all the same size and colour?"

They're not, Tom. They're the same color. Got that: COLOR.

C-O-L-O-R. No "U."

Geez, these foreigners.



(Smiley face would go here but I don't use 'em.)

[Max Torque]

So, you want someone glancing at you from a block away to be able to tell, by a visible flash of color, that you just pocketed a roll of twenties rather than a roll of ones? Heck, why not just paint a target on the back of your jacket....

[samclem]

Can't say for sure that this is true...I just always heard it

The secret service was always against multi-color notes. They claimed it was easier to counterfeit than the basic note the US has used since 1928(noting the different color seals, red, blue, yellow, used prior to 1963)

I have no idea about the counterfeitability{sp} of multi-color notes.

The idea that it is cheaper to print US notes in one size and color is probably wrong-headed. At least, as far as a reason to do so.

[sailor]

Am *I* the only one who thinks it is much more convenient to handle bills if they are all the same size? I just take all the bills in one wad, fold them in half and into my pocket. Try doing that with bills of different sizes.

As for telling them apart, it's called literacy. I am near sighted which means I can see the money when it's near. If it's 20 feet away I really don't need to tell it apart.

[AWB]

I imagine they're the same size so that it's easier to handle a stack of bills. It'd freak me out if they were different sizes.

If we had different colors, what would that do to our slang? It's "greenbacks" and other "green" terms.

And to rastahomie: 3) It just might be that the introduction of new bills (that's what we call "notes" here)

But all our bills do say "Federal Reserve Note" on them. Try this out the next time you're about to make a major purchase: ask if they accept Federal Reserve Notes. If they say no, flash a wad of bills, shrug, and say as you leave, "I guess I'll go find someplace that does accept these then." :D:D

[Smeghead]

Originally posted by samclem
Can't say for sure that this is true...I just always heard it

The secret service was always against multi-color notes. They claimed it was easier to counterfeit than the basic note the US has used since 1928(noting the different color seals, red, blue, yellow, used prior to 1963)

I have no idea about the counterfeitability{sp} of multi-color notes.

The idea that it is cheaper to print US notes in one size and color is probably wrong-headed. At least, as far as a reason to do so.

Actually, according to a Discovery Channel documentary on counterfieting I once saw, plain old bills like the US's are far far easier to counterfiet than multi-colored ones. Which makes sense, really - you only need to match one or two colors instead of dozens. In fact, it was the ease with which US bills could be faked that prompted the redesign.

[Mr. Sheepshead]

Alright! Another money thread!


1) The Mint is too cheap to invest in different kinds of ink, and to start making the bills in different sizes would
require the investment of millions of dollars in new cutting equipment


C'mon, this is the government here! Whenever they start to lose money on a significant public scale, things change (see below).


2) Americans are squeamish about radical changes to their currency (I, for one, love the new Sackies, but the new
5's & 10's freak me out a little),

3) It just might be that the introduction of new bills (that's what we call "notes" here) is the first step toward bringing on bills of new sizes and colors, but that reeks of conspiracy theorism and I CERTAINLY don't want to go down
THAT road.


As stated by RealityChuck, Americans have traditionally been against any changes to their money. To use recent examples: Ike dollars, Susan B. Anthony dollars. Besides, Americans are already familiar with the money they have. This is the main reason it took so long for us to even change the designs on the bills. The amount we were losing to easily counterfeited bills surpassed the estimated cost to re-educate and sell the public on new bills.

Anybody interested in looking up some absolutely gorgeous currency of ours, type "educational series" and maybe "currency" in a search engine.


Also, the gov't theory is that people become so familiar with the money that counterfeits and the like are sifted out and will be turned in without ever being accepted. So then, I must ask: without looking in your wallet, who is on a $10 bill? What building is on the back of a $20? Of a $100? And they expect the public to find counterfeits?! I would say maybe five a week go thru a small franchise in a small town like mine. I suppose I should tell you that if you find a counterfeit bill you are to turn it in to the Secret Service or your local National Bank.


Note to AWB: I'll bet your Silver/Gold Certificates or National Currency bills don't have Federal Reserve Note on them ;)

[samclem]

Mr. Sheepshead said And they expect the public to find counterfeits?! I would say maybe five a week go thru a small franchise in a small town like mine.

Upon what do you base your presumption?

[friedo]

Well, I imagine the same-size bills are much easier for vending machines and changemakers to deal with.

Also, I have no problem telling them apart. When I need to pay for something, I just thumb through the stack I have until I find the right denomination; the number is right there in the corner for that very reason. (And I usually sort them out of habit, putting larger bills towards the back).

But I still don't understand why dimes are smaller than nickels...sigh.

[samclem]

friedo

But I still don't understand why dimes are smaller than nickels...sigh.


Because nickels were invented 69 years after dimes. Originally we had a halfdime, made out of silver, which made sense(as opposed to cents).

Halfdimes were so small they weren't practical, so we came up with a nickel(in 1866). We needed a five cent coin, but bigger than the miserable little halfdime which we had.

But you had to make it out of some metal which wasn't silver. Thus the nickel.

[The Ryan]

Why do you guys call them "bank notes"? I recall hearing that once upon a time banks issued their own bank notes. Am I remembering incorrectly? Do banks still do this?

[samclem]

"Banks" in the US were free to issue their own notes prior to the institution of a National Currency in 1862.

Some of them could still have their names imprinted on "National Notes" by the Government until 1929. But these were not notes issued by, nor backed by the individual banks. Just a throw-back to times gone by.

[friedo]

Originally posted by The Ryan
Why do you guys call them "bank notes"? I recall hearing that once upon a time banks issued their own bank notes. Am I remembering incorrectly? Do banks still do this?

Well US currency is technically called "Federal Reserve Notes" because they're made by the Federal Reserve, which is a bank, owned by private investors.

There's a lot of hoopla over whether or not it's Constitutional. (Don't have the article off-hand, but Congress is the only body supposedly allowed to coin money.)

[JoeyHemlock]

1. Different size notes for sure.
2. Different color(s) for every note,
3. Rotating people/events on bills. We only have six commly circulating notes, but lots of people we should be honoring. Since all the fives will be the same color, why not allow ten different designs (at least).
4. No more singles or fives. They should be coin.
5. No more pennies. Zinc industry be damned.

There is a great site dedicated to increasing coin money. It's www.coincoalition.org and is a good reference. Did you know that only one other developed country (Italy) doesn't have a coin worth US$1? And they *do* have one worth over $0.50...

[JoeyHemlock]

Originally posted by Mr. Sheepshead

So then, I must ask: without looking in your wallet, who is on a $10 bill? What building is on the back of a $20? Of a $100? And they expect the public to find counterfeits?!

Alexander Hamilton (1st Treasury Secretary), The White House, I don't know (I don't see a lot of $100's. I looked it up, though. Independance Hall.).

But did you know that most of the counterfeits are uncovered because of the feel of the paper? It's expensive to make paper that feels exactly like a dollar, especially when worn.

Regarding the American reluctance to change: SCREW THEM (well, technically, I should say "screw us")!! There will be bitching and moaning, but if you only give them one option, then what choice do they have?

Our money can be seen at www.usmint.gov for coinage and www.moneyfactory.com for printed money (and find out who was on the $10,000 note!)

[BobT]

Originally posted by friedo


Well US currency is technically called "Federal Reserve Notes" because they're made by the Federal Reserve, which is a bank, owned by private investors.

There's a lot of hoopla over whether or not it's Constitutional. (Don't have the article off-hand, but Congress is the only body supposedly allowed to coin money.) [/B]

There's not a lot of hoopla over this in the rational world. The Constitution says that the Congress shall have the power to "coin money and regulate the value thereof". Congress has declared that Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender and has regulated their value (by asking the Federal Reserve to do this for them.)

If you tell any court in the US, that Federal Reserve Notes aren't legal tender, your argument will automatically be dismissed.

For more info on this topic and the case law about it, go to http://www.militia-watchdog.org/suss7.htm#money

[TomH]

Thanks for the responses. On a related point, how common is it for somebody to hand over the wrong denomination of note (i.e. give you a 10 in change for a five thinking it's a one). Some people have suggested that if you've lived with American currency all your life you can spot the subtle differences easily.

There is a great site dedicated to increasing coin money. It's coincoalition.org and is a good reference.

Our largest denomination coin is the recently-introduced £2 (~$3). There was a terrible fuss when they introducd the £1 coin and abolished the £1 note back in the late-1980s, though. I think there's something psychological about it, which is presumably why you keep the 1 cent and we keep the one penny coin despite the fact that they're not worth anything.

Incidentally, our coins in decsending order of diameter are: £2 (gold/silver), 50p (silver), 2p (bronze), 10p (silver), £1 (gold), 20p (silver), 1p (bronze), 5p (silver). Kind of puts the nickle / dime thing to shame.

[ticker]

Different sized banknotes are of benefit to the blind or partially sighted. Even better would be those like in the Netherlands (or was it Sweden - or both, I cannot remember) with raised marks making it much easier to distinguish by feel.

Incidentally, the Bank Of England (http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pressreleases/2000/044.htm) is soon to issue tenners with Charles Darwin on the back. Presumably such a move would not go down so well with certain sections of American society :D

[Annie-Xmas]

In a grocery, I once gave the clerk a $10,
she rang up $20 and gave me change based
on it. I didn't say anything cause it
wouldn't have happened if she'd been
watching what she was doing instead of
flirting with the bag boy.

[TomH]

Incidentally, the Bank Of England is soon to issue tenners with Charles Darwin on the back.

Like I said, it's the facial hair. No doubt there'll be a backlash when peopel cotton on to the fact that we can't have women (except the Queen) on our banknotes.

[Myron Van Horowitzski]

Slightly OT, what do y'all think of the facelift and hair transplants they gave to Abe and Alex for the new $5 and $10?

[Mr. Sheepshead]

samclem, I base my assumption on the fact that I used to work full time at such an establishment.

Also, I used to appraise coins / paper money for a living (my first job in high school - nerd, nerd, nerd!). Nothing worse than telling someone the gold coin that's been passed down thru generations is nothing more than a counterfeit.


But did you know that most of the counterfeits are uncovered because of the feel of the paper? It's expensive to make paper that feels exactly like a dollar, especially when worn.


Do you have any references for this? It's a small price for a counterfeiter to pay to get well made paper if he's going to print up $100 bills on it. I personally have found more notes to be counterfeit by the printing, and I can only think of a handful that I could detect (at first) by the paper.



Regarding the American reluctance to change: SCREW THEM (well, technically, I should say "screw us")!! There will be bitching and moaning, but if you only give them one option, then what choice do they have?


Exactly. That's why the UK removed the one pound note when they introduced the coin. It's also why the American dollar coins always fail.

[JoeyHemlock]

Originally posted by Mr. Sheepshead

But did you know that most of the counterfeits are uncovered because of the feel of the paper? It's expensive to make paper that feels exactly like a dollar, especially when worn.


Do you have any references for this?

I wish I did. I saw it twice on TV, once on a Nova special and once on the Discovery Channel. (Can anyone back me up?) I'll see if I can find anything. It's especially effective, they said, at stopping small-time color copier counterfeiters. Also, notice the small red/blue threads in the paper. If you're not certain, that's a good thing to look for.

Big-time counterfeiters have problems getting the feel of the ink exactly right, though that's difficult to spot. I think the printing process used is called intaglio, and only governments seem to be able to afford the machinery. It's said that Iran printed a lot of US money on their intaglio presses in the 70's and 80's.



Exactly. That's why the UK removed the one pound note when they introduced the coin. It's also why the American dollar coins always fail.
[/B]

The same thing happened in Canada. They hated the coin dollar (loon) until the paper was gone, then they started to like it. Liked it so much, in fact, that the citizens actually wanted the two dollar coin.

[JoeyHemlock]

Originally posted by Myron Van Horowitzski
Slightly OT, what do y'all think of the facelift and hair transplants they gave to Abe and Alex for the new $5 and $10?

I like it, but I still say we have the most boring money in the world. See my comments on how I'd change the system...

[KneadToKnow]

Originally posted by Myron Van Horowitzski
Slightly OT, what do y'all think of the facelift and hair transplants they gave to Abe and Alex for the new $5 and $10?
I liked them fine until the other night when I was getting a $5 bill out of my wallet and LINCOLN GAVE ME THE EVIL EYE!

I think we're going to see a lot of this as these bill start to wear some: Because the portrait is now off-center, the centerline of the bill now goes more or less straight through Abe's left eye. Repeated folding had caused the coloring on that part of the bill to fade, making the rest of the bill's coloring much more pronounced by contrast. Resulting optical illusion: Honest Abe giving me a death stare.

It creeped me out plenty.

[greyseal]

originally posted by TomH:

Incidentally, our coins in decsending order of diameter are: £2 (gold/silver), 50p (silver), 2p (bronze), 10p (silver), £1 (gold),
20p (silver), 1p (bronze), 5p (silver). Kind of puts the nickle / dime thing to shame.


On a recent trip to London, I had an excellent opportunity to try out the different sized bills and coins.

Basically, I really like the £1 being a coin. And having bills of differing sizes was only slightly confusing at first.

The only problem I had with the system was the coin sizes. Plus, different denominations are not circular like American coins. I think the 10p was big and heptagonal. In a week, I never could tell the difference in coinage unless I looked at it (with the exception of the thick £1).

greyseal

[stuyguy]

My problem with the new designs is that Alex H. is facing the wrong way! Graphic designers and TV cameramen know to place profiles so they "look" to the center of a page/screen, giving them more "nose room" than "back-of-head room."

Alex is staring off the page, looking like he wants to leave.

[JoeyHemlock]

Do you have any references for this?

I wish I did. I saw it twice on TV, once on a Nova special and once on the Discovery Channel

Nova's website (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/moolah/anatomypaper.html) talks about the paper and says, "People who handle money on a regular basis, such as bank tellers, can easily determine if a bill is counterfeit by this distinctive feel." Not exactly what I said, but it isn't too far off.

It's got lots of good info, check it out.

Graphic designers and TV cameramen know to place profiles so they "look" to the center of a page/screen, giving them more "nose room" than "back-of-head room."


Learn something new everyday!

[TomH]

... I think the 10p was big and heptagonal ...

50p is big and pentagonal, 20p is small and heptagonal. The 50p, 10p and 5p used to be much bigger than they are now. All the silver coins (except for 20p, which is quite new anyway) have shrunk.

[Mr. Sheepshead]

Let me apologize first, JoeyHemlock, as I look back at my posts I made it seem like I was attempting to discredit what you were saying. Also, that is a good Nova article, I wish I had seen the actual show.

I guess I was looking at the paper problem from a different point of view. Whereas I have an active interest in collecting money and stuff, a bank teller may not. Therefore, their primary means of detection would be the paper. Whereas I will at least eyeball a whole bill - the paper ones are easy to catch, and therefore seem infrequent to me.

Does any of this sense? What was the original topic? ;)

[John Bredin]

"Regarding the American reluctance to change: SCREW THEM (well, technically, I should say 'screw us')!! There will be bitching and moaning, but if you only give them one option, then what choice do they have?"

"Exactly. That's why the UK removed the one pound note when they introduced the coin. It's also why the American dollar coins always fail."

Here in Chicago, when the Transit Authority introduced the Transit Card (plastic card that you could add value to on machines located in the L stations), the card was fairly popular with most riders but there was a significant "tokens forever" crowd that wouldn't touch Transit Cards with a 10 foot pole, mainly for reasons of fear of technology and "but we've ALWAYS had tokens!" "How do I know what value is on there when I can't see it in black and white?" (Stick it into a Transit Card machine.) "What if the turnstile eats the card but won't let me through?" (What if it does the same with a token or six quarters?) They just weren't going to trust a little bendy plastic card over solid metal, they didn't trust feeding their hard-earned money into a slot in a machine, and they didn't like not being able to see at an instant how much fare they had left as with the tokens.

So the CTA just said outright that after a particular date (back in April of '99 IIRC) tokens would no longer be valid fare for the CTA trains or buses. Period. After that date, either buy a Transit Card or carry a roll of quarters around with you. Needless to say, I don't see many people opting to pay their fare by pulling six quarters out of their coin-laden pockets and dropping it into the only coin-slot turnstile out of the four or five turnstiles in the station. :)

[zero]

Originally posted by Myron Van Horowitzski
Slightly OT, what do y'all think of the facelift and hair transplants they gave to Abe and Alex for the new $5 and $10?

IMO Hamilton looks great with his flattering tan, stylish hair, and silk tie.

[samclem]

Mr. Sheepshead Do I understand you correctly that, in a town of 25,000 people and in a typical small store, perhaps 5 counterfeit banknotes pass each day? I find this hard to believe. But maybe I missed something.