What's an kinder term to describe C.S. Lewis than 'Fundamentalist'?

[Lumpy]

"Fundamentalist" has a particular connotation, especially in the US of (1). The Bible is literally true, including a supernatural Creation and Flood. (2). Christianity is the only true religion, and all other religions and secular philosophies are misguided or evil. (3). The ultimate society would then be a Christian theocracy; at a minimum, any attempt by secular society to limit or interfere with Christian values should be defeated.

Now based on his writings, Lewis did not agree with most of the above. He did not think it necessary to postulate that the first humans with souls were created supernaturally. He regarded salvation as personal, individual, and uncoercible, and not as the result of any worldly institution. He spent his career addressing the fact that intelligent sincere people could doubt Christianity. I don't know if Lewis ever had knowledge of or wrote about American fundamentalism; his main concern was a British society already much more athiest than anything imaginable on this side of the Atlantic.

But Lewis believed that Christianity was literally true. That it was the final, indeed the ONLY answer to the human condition. He believed that only the determined actions of good people (ultimately, Christians) kept human society from collapsing into unchecked evil. He even went so far as to say that the problem with medieval society wasn't that it was too Christian, but that it was not (truly) Christian enough. Without insisting on forcing anything on anyone, Lewis was uncompromisingly Christian. So what can you call Lewis's stance without making it sound like he was a Bible-thumping backwoods preacher who denounces "Evilution" at revival meetings?

[Blalron]

Christian?

[FisherQueen]

I wouldn't call Lewis fundamentalist. Didn't he belong to the Church of England?

[Baker]

What's an kinder term to describe C.S. Lewis than 'Fundamentalist'?

Hmm, how about "noted author"?

[bmoak]

The term I usually see used to describe Lewis on book jackets and the like is "Christian apologist".

"Fundamentalist" is a very specific term that wouldn't apply to a C of E member like Lewis and doesn't describe Lewis' theology.

[tomndebb]

I'd simply call him Christian.

I would also note that not all the pejorative views of Fundamentalists in the OP are held by all Fundamentlists. A literalist approach to Scripture is clearly a tenet of that movement, but a Christian theocracy would only be supported by a minority of Fundamentalists (although some undefined number of their opponents might erroneously ascribe that belief to the entire movement).

[Theologue]

I'd simply call him Christian.

I would also note that not all the pejorative views of Fundamentalists in the OP are held by all Fundamentlists. A literalist approach to Scripture is clearly a tenet of that movement, but a Christian theocracy would only be supported by a minority of Fundamentalists (although some undefined number of their opponents might erroneously ascribe that belief to the entire movement).

I second that. Baptists are probably the most recognizable Fundamentalist group, yet they have a very strong tradition of separation of church and state.

We've got to get away from the flawed equation, Fundamentalist = "any Christian who takes Christianity seriously." I would guess that most Christians believe Christianity is "literally true."

Lewis believed in evolution. There is a whole lot more to Christianity than that issue.

He would have like the term "Christian."

[FriarTed]

evangelical, traditionalist, orthodox, even catholic

maybe "mere Christian" :D

[WotNot]

A frequent phrase I see used in the UK is “committed Christian,” which appears to mean someone who goes to church regularly and takes it seriously, making it a part of their life; as opposed to that majority who are baptised as a child, then avoid any dealing with the church except for the occasional wedding, but would usually put “Christian” in the appropriate box on a census form.

[Paul in Qatar]

Just a Christian.

[Evil Captor]

How about "asshole"? That, in my opinion, is a kinder term than fundamentalist.

[Wendell Wagner]

I would take some objection to almost every sentence you wrote there, Lumpy.

> "Fundamentalist" has a particular connotation, especially in the US of (1). The
> Bible is literally true, including a supernatural Creation and Flood.

I don't particularly want to defend fundamentalism, but I'm not sure the things you attribute to it are specifically characteristic of all or even most of the people who call themselves fundamentalists. I don't know what you mean by "supernatural Creation," but if it only means that the universe was created by God, then pretty much all Christians (and all theists) believe that. If it means "no evolution and a relatively young universe," then it's more or less true that most fundamentalists believe it. I'm not sure whether the majority of fundamentalists believe in Noah's Flood.

> (2). Christianity is the only true religion, and all other religions and secular
> philosophies are misguided or evil.

I don't think most fundamentalists believe that other religions are evil.

> (3). The ultimate society would then be a Christian theocracy; at a minimum,
> any attempt by secular society to limit or interfere with Christian values should
> be defeated.

I think it's rare for any Christian these days to believe that a theocracy is the best government, even fundamentalists

> Now based on his writings, Lewis did not agree with most of the above.

He specifically said that theocracy was a terrible idea. He specifically said that there were reflections of good in other religions. He didn't make a big deal about whether evolution was true.

> But Lewis believed that Christianity was literally true.

In some sense, anyone who calls themself a Christian believes that Christianity is true. The question is what they mean by saying that it is true.

> He believed that only the determined actions of good people (ultimately,
> Christians) kept human society from collapsing into unchecked evil.

Cite? I don't recall him ever saying this.

> He even went so far as to say that the problem with medieval society wasn't
> that it was too Christian, but that it was not (truly) Christian enough.

Cite? It's possible that I missed where he said this, but I don't recall it.

> So what can you call Lewis's stance without making it sound like he was a Bible-
> thumping backwoods preacher who denounces "Evilution" at revival meetings?

Fundamentalism is so unrelated to Lewis's beliefs that it's hard to even compare them. Fundamentalism is an American movement that started about the time that he became a teenager, so it really had no influence on Lewis. As other people in this thread have already said, "evangelical" or "orthodox" are closer to characterizing Lewis's beliefs.

[Shodan]

maybe "mere Christian" :D
I think this is Lewis' self-chosen term.

Regards,
Shodan

[Revtim]

I guess "flaming jeezer" probably isn't any better.

[Crotalus]

I've read many of his books and several biographies. I think that he thought of himself as a writer, story-teller and scholar of English literature. He was an Anglican Christian, which is a long way from a fundamentalist. He did not appear to have thought that all of the bible was the literal truth; in fact, he was persuaded to renew his faith by Tolkien's argument to him about the validity of myth as a conveyor of deep truths. His use of the word "mere" in the title of "Mere Christianity", was according to him, a signal that his explanation of Christianity would attempt to describe the essence of the faith without getting into the divisive particulars of dogma the separate various Christian denominations. I agree with others here that the best term for him in the area of his religion would be "Christian".

[Thudlow Boink]

I think it's safe to say that Lewis has been embraced by many different "kinds" of Christians (evangelicals, mainline Protestants, Catholics, etc.) as has no other author of the 20th century.

"Mere Christian" is my answer to the OP's question, too.

[Stephe96]

How 'bout devout Christian?

[StaberindeMk2]

The term I usually see used to describe Lewis on book jackets and the like is "Christian apologist".


Thats a very insulting term. I'm sure CS Lewis and the majority of other Christians would see Christianity as nothing to apologise for.

[furt]

Thats a very insulting term. I'm sure CS Lewis and the majority of other Christians would see Christianity as nothing to apologise for.That word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics) doesn't mean what you think it does.

[Thudlow Boink]

Thats a very insulting term. I'm sure CS Lewis and the majority of other Christians would see Christianity as nothing to apologise for.I hope I'm not being whooshed here...

An apologist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=apologist) is someone who defends or presents arguments for a position. There's nothing derogatory about the term at all.

[StaberindeMk2]

That word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetics) doesn't mean what you think it does.

Well there you go, you really do learn something new every day.

Ah twas a wonderful day when I stumbled on the bastion of knowledge that is the Straight Dope.

Seriously though, I have heard that term used in a definitely derogatory sense before.

Knee-jerk reaction, mea culpa.

[athelas]

Person? Writer? Famous author? Narnia creator? Christian? Religious? Carbon-based organism?

Sidenote: What's a better term to describe Ralph Ellison than "black"? Or a kinder term for Ted Kennedy than "radical leftist"?

[FriarTed]

How about "asshole"? That, in my opinion, is a kinder term than fundamentalist.

Hmmm- is this an inappropriate attack on CSL or an inappropriate attack on a religious group?

Where's the 'report post to a mod' button when you need it?

[FriarTed]

Hmmm- is this an inappropriate attack on CSL or an inappropriate attack on a religious group?

Where's the 'report post to a mod' button when you need it?


OK- I found the triangle! :smack:

[athelas]

I think that it was meant as an indication of the degree to which the supposedly objective term "fundamentalist" has been turned into an insult, at least on the SDMB.

[Renob]

To clarify, I don't think fundamentalists believe the Bible is "literally" true. I went to college with a number of fundies (as we liked to label them) and their preferred term is that the Bible is inerrant. That is, not everything in it is taken literally, but everything in it is true. The Bible doesn't make a mistake. Also, I don't think you'll find very many fundies who want to establish a theocracy. Sure, there are some wackos out there, but most do not want to see a government that forces everyone to obey the dictates of the Bible. They want a government that is more in tune with their beliefs, but not a theocracy.

While I may disagree with a lot of fundamentalism, I think we do it a disservice by the stereotypes that are thrown around. Many fundamentalists are very smart people who have thought long and hard about their beliefs. Don't trivialize them.

[Nature's Call]

I would take some objection to almost every sentence you wrote there, Lumpy.

I am a former member of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, sister church to the Assemblies of God in the States. Lumpy's description of fundamentalism very accurately describes my former beliefs and those of my fellow church-goers.

I hesitate to speak for anyone beyond my immediate experience. Perhaps, just perhaps, PAOC/AoG/Baptists/Fundamentalists have become more moderate in the many years since I've left. Certainly there can be shades of fundamentalism. But Lumpy's description rang true to my ears, as a chorus of bells.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor
How about "asshole"? That, in my opinion, is a kinder term than fundamentalist.
Hmmm- is this an inappropriate attack on CSL or an inappropriate attack on a religious group?

Where's the 'report post to a mod' button when you need it?
Oh, he just pulled that post out of his fundamentalist.

:)

Regards,
Shodan

[Nature's Call]

Oh, he just pulled that post out of his fundamentalist.

I don't know if the pun on fundament (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fundament) was intentional - but you made me laugh in any event!

[BMalion]

Many fundamentalists are very smart people who have thought long and hard about their beliefs. Don't trivialize them.

And try not to call them "fundies".

[FriarTed]

BTW, re C.S. Lewis & Fundamentalism, Bob Jones Sr. supposedly growsed about him "The man smokes a pipe and drinks alcohol, but I do believe he is a Christian."

CS, upon getting a letter from a fundist lady who questioned smoking & drinking, replied "Why is it I only get asked about that from Americans?"

[Evil Captor]

I think that it was meant as an indication of the degree to which the supposedly objective term "fundamentalist" has been turned into an insult, at least on the SDMB.

Why just the SDMB. Whether they're Moslem fundamentalists or Christian fundamentalists, people around the world have learned that fundamentalists are the stock from which people who go around shooting other people and blowing other people up are grown. I do not think my assertion is that far off the mark.

[tomndebb]

I have left this in GD because I could not figure the appropriate Forum to which to send it: IMHO since it seeks opinions? GQ since there might have been an objective answer (although the responses seem to indicate not)? Cafe Society since Lewis is a noted author?

SOME, not all Fundamentalists would completely reject any association with Mr. Lewis:
BEWARE OF C.S. LEWIS (http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/bewareof-cslewis.html)
C.S. Lewis, the devil's wisest fool (http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/cslewis.htm)


At any rate, to the extent that the question can be answered, I believe it has been, so I'm going to close it.

[ /Moderator Mode ]

Evil Captor, I am a bit disappointed. Regardless your views of various religious groups, the topic was C.S. Lewis and your replies were simply a hijack to express your dislike of a group with which he is not even associated.