What can and can't I build up a tolerance to?

[alterego]

I can build up a tolerance to Jalapeño peppers such that they no longer seem very hot at all after eating quite a lot of them over a period of time. But not with Listerine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listerine). I use Listerine every night for 30 seconds but some nights I just don't have the energy to stand up to the pain. It feels like the first time every single time.

Of course there are different chemicals involved. With Listerine, Ethanol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol) (mostly) and with Jalapeños, Capsaicin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin). My biological psychology professor tells a tale of drinking 198 proof (minus 2 because of air) and experiencing an extremely painful burning sensation, which I expect is Listerine amplified. Can you never tolerate this?

When you experience the spicy hot of Capsaicin, are you experiencing pain? Because if you are, and you can build up a tolerance to it, you are somehow inhibiting the neurotransmitter Substance P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance P). But if it's not "pain" per se, what is it? And if it is pain, why do I not build up a tolerance to each of them?

In the Princess Bride, a tolerance is built up to the fictional Iocane Powder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iocane). Is it true that you can slowly build up a tolerance to poisons?

What other things "physical" can you build up a tolerance to? What sorts of things cant you build up a tolerance to? What are the overall mechanisms that determine these cases?

[FilmGeek]

I don't have an answer, but these are really good questions, so I'll give a bump and a subscribe.

[marshmallow]

I think this could be an interesting topic if anyone knowledgeble chimes in.

Is it true that you can slowly build up a tolerance to poisons?
I know from watching too many "white man chases dangerous reptile"-type shows that one can build up a strong tolerance to snake venom.

[WonJohnSoup]

Can't really give an answear beyond the fact that yes, chili burn is pain. That's why it's not a flavor like sweet, sour, salty, bitter and that MSG one.

I've heard of some chili peppers so hot it actually burns the skin to handle them.

[lhovis73]

Along the same lines, I want to know if I can build up a tolerance to whatever causes the tears to fall when I'm cooking with onions. Hard to imagine this happening regularly to professional chefs...

[FilmGeek]

Along the same lines, I want to know if I can build up a tolerance to whatever causes the tears to fall when I'm cooking with onions. Hard to imagine this happening regularly to professional chefs...
I have a friend who is a professional chef, and the tears pour down his face when he cuts up onions.

[butler1850]

The best bet for the onion question is sharp knives, and cut them quickly, to get it over with.

For hot peppers, capsaicin is an irritant, you feel pain due to cells being damaged. CAUTION, USE GLOVES WHEN CUTTING, AND NEVER EVER EVER EVER TOUCH YOUR WIFE'S "bits" (or your own) AFTER HANDLING HOT PEPPERS.

As for building tolerance to other things, I'd imagine that anything that doesn't cause "real" harm in smaller doses, and is counteracted by a substance produced by the body (enzyme, antibody, etc), or causes a substance to be released (e.g. dopamine) would allow you to build a tolerance. Tolerance in this case being different from addiction. IANAD, and this is a complete WAG.

-Butler

[vetbridge]

I have a friend who is a professional chef, and the tears pour down his face when he cuts up onions.

I also have a friend who is a professional chef, but he has a prep person do things like chop/dice/mince onions. :)

[Bippy the Beardless]

There seems to me to be an ability to gain tolerance of pain itself. Not just the fact that a pain receptor neuron will react weaker after time if constantly fireing, but also an ability to ignore pain more easily can be learnt. Through both martial arts training where I learn't to deal with the pain of joint locks and nerve strikes, and through suffering many Gall Stone attacks, I learnt how to ignore pain more efficiently, but I think I also learnt an ammount of tollerance for pain as well.

[threemae]

You most definitely don't build up a resistance to poison ivy. I do some volunteer work in a field (no pun intended) that occasionally puts us into risk of PI exposure. People that formerly got a little itch now run around like headless chickens, "the ivy, the ivy."

Avoid it.

[Scupper]

Disclaimers: IANAD, IANADD*

You can build up a resistance to cocaine and other drugs, variants of which are used as pain killers. One of the chief issues with cocaine addiction is that it takes progressively more cocaine to produce the same level of effect, which leads users to either consume more cocaine or to consume it via methods that are more efficient in delivering the drug into their system (i.e. freebasing). The more cocaine you're introducing into your system, the more troublesome the side-effects.

I have heard an anecdotal account from a friend who used more than his fair share of cocaine that his dentist was disturbed by the fact that it took a lot more novacaine to properly anesthetize him. The dentist knew exactly why he was so novacaine-resistant and told him to lay off the blow.

Other drugs, such as LSD, don't have a similar mechanic, and are not "addictive" drugs - at least not in the same sense. You can become accustomed to the effects, but you cannot build up a tolerance in any real sense.

I am told that MDMA (Ecstacy) has a "tolerance" built into its mode of operation. Since it stimulates the production of certain neurotransmitters and your body can only make a finite supply of them at one time, you can exhaust that supply temporarily if you take a lot of Ex and more Ex won't make any difference. Again, though, that's not really building up a tolerance to the drug. It's more like a side effect of abusing it.

* I am not a Doctor or a Drug Dealer

[big_dogs]

Former chef here -

run onions under cold water.

OR if you have to do a LOT of onions, the only real solution:
I also have a friend who is a professional chef, but he has a prep person do things like chop/dice/mince onions. :)


:D

[Finagle]

Alcoholics can build up a tolerance to levels of ethanol that would kill most of us. Not sure what the adaptation is.

It's possible to build up tolerances to cold, heat, and altitude. The journals from Shackleton's expedition to the Antarctic note that one day when the temperature almost exceeded freezing, the expedition members felt uncomfortably warm.

[CalMeacham]

I know from watching too many "white man chases dangerous reptile"-type shows that one can build up a strong tolerance to snake venom.


When I was a kid, we visited the Miami Serpentarium, and we watched Dr. William Haas "charm" a King Cobra (right on the lawn in front of us, with no protective wall in between. Try doing that in today's litigious atmosphere) and "milk" the venom into a flask. Haas used to inject himself with cobra venom, and apparently built up an immunity to it (and other venoms he injected). his blood was in demand for treatment of severe snakebite (presumably by people with compatible blood types).


Here's an entry with a bit on him:

http://archive.salon.com/people/lunch/1999/11/12/tosches/index1.html

[vetbridge]

Alcoholics can build up a tolerance to levels of ethanol that would kill most of us. Not sure what the adaptation is.

One part of the tolerance to alcohol is the production of alcohol dehydrogenase, an enzyme produced and used by the liver. It is present in small background amounts, but it is an induced enzyme. The more you expose your liver to alcohol, the more (and the quicker) your liver produces it.

[threemae]

Yeah, but it's more than that too. Their CNS has to somehow adapt as well. Although the ADH helps to consume the ETOH, not only can they consume a lot more booze in a week, they are more stable and less intoxicated at a certain BAC. Here in Boulder and surrounding areas, around a .38 has led to several deaths. At the ER, I've seen people with BAC's of around .32 that weren't even obviously intoxicated and .38 that were still talking and capable of standing.

[vetbridge]

It is a shame they cannot put that ability to good use.

[bouv]

Alcoholics can build up a tolerance to levels of ethanol that would kill most of us. Not sure what the adaptation is.

It's possible to build up tolerances to cold, heat, and altitude. The journals from Shackleton's expedition to the Antarctic note that one day when the temperature almost exceeded freezing, the expedition members felt uncomfortably warm.

Are you saying you've never experienced this yourself? Your location says around Boston, so you have dealt with cold New England winters I assume. Haven't yuou ever gone outside on a random January or February day and have it be almsot 50? It feels like summer! I want to go around in shorts! I don'twear a jacket on those days, and I will wear a t-shirt and I never feel cold, because I was conditioned by the winter to think that -10 is cold.

In that same vein, a brisk summer day (below 65) after weeks of over 80 feels damn near freezing!

[alterego]

Thanks for the replies. The overall inconsistency still leaves me eluded: Why can I build up a tolerance to Jalepeno's in a short matter of time, yet after years of religiously using Listerine I have absolutely no increase in tolerance? From what I have read, I could use Listerine every single night for my entire life, building up no tolerance to that pain (which is in reality just Substance P), and after I am done swishing I could then swallow it. At first I would feel intoxicated; then I would build up a tolerance to the effects of the ethanol - but not the pain it induces. Even when it is clear that other types of pain can be tolerated.

[Finagle]

Are you saying you've never experienced this yourself? Your location says around Boston, so you have dealt with cold New England winters I assume. Haven't yuou ever gone outside on a random January or February day and have it be almsot 50?

Of course I have. But not to the degree that someone in an extreme climate has become acclimated.

[Bookkeeper]

Along the same lines, I want to know if I can build up a tolerance to whatever causes the tears to fall when I'm cooking with onions. Hard to imagine this happening regularly to professional chefs...
This is sulpher compounds released when you cut through the cell walls. The compoundsevaporate into the air and, when mixed with the water on the surface of your eyeballs, form sulfuric acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion).

[bordelond]

Are swimming goggles sufficient protection against airborne sulfur compounds from onions? Or are they not sufficiently airtight?

[Clothahump]

Along the same lines, I want to know if I can build up a tolerance to whatever causes the tears to fall when I'm cooking with onions. Hard to imagine this happening regularly to professional chefs...

No, but if you cut them while running cold water on them, it cuts down the tears immensely.

[Snickers]

I don't know about Listerine, but capsaicin can burn skin. My father, a doctor, remarked on seeing one of those Capzaisin commercials (or whatever the brand name is - apparently its marketed towards joint pain and arthritis) that he'd treated some people that had used that product for burns. The capsaicin that it contained had burned them.

[enigmatic]

You can build up a tolerance to a wide variety of different substances which are affecting your body as various metabolic pathways are shifted around and up/down regulated, your body tends to do this in response to chronic exposure to a substance and your response to those substances will start to return to normal after a period of time, this is what is responsible for for the Alcoholics resistance to alcohol (it is these metabolic changes that many of the withdrawal symptoms associated with drug use.

You can also develop an immune response to a lot of complicated toxins such as snake venoms and this gives some degree of protection, paradoxically these immune responses can cause problems in themselves. This is the reason poison ivy exposure get's worse over time, the rash occurs as a result of an innapropriate immune response to the plant proteins and therefore gets worse over time with each repesated exposure, some people will not develop the immune response and will remain unaffected.

[enigmatic]

Please excuse the terrible spelling and grammar in the previous post.

[Big_Norse]

Are swimming goggles sufficient protection against airborne sulfur compounds from onions? Or are they not sufficiently airtight?

Personally I have noticed that since I began wearing contact lenses I am much less affected by onions.

As a result of watching/reading too many true life mysteries, I thought I'd heard of cases of people building up an immunity to arsenic so they could poison someone with it. But after doing a little looking, I couldn't find an actual case where this happened (other than in fiction) but two sources I found say that people building tolerances to it have been documented.

From here (http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/TXSHas.shtml):
As documented in the mid-1800s, mountaineers of central Austria (Styria) made a habit of consuming arsenic preparations once or twice a week as a general stimulant and tonic. They became known as "arsenic eaters," and some were reputed to have adopted the practice as a means of building up a tolerance against poisoning by their enemies. The acquisition of a modest degree of tolerance has, in fact, been documented in laboratory animals, but its physiological basis is not clear.
From here (http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group12/arsenic.htm):
Extraordinary degrees of tolerance to ingestion of arsenic have been reported in the past. Many mechanisms for this clinical tolerance have been suggested. These include blockage of absorption, alteration in distribution, enhanced or accelerated transformation of arsenite to arsenate (less toxic), and decreased reduction of arsenate to arsenite by peripheral tissues.

[lhovis73]

Speaking of building up tolerance to alcohol, I can report anecdotally that I seem to be (relatively) immune to the effects of certain drinks, but get drunk quickly when I have other drinks, even though this seems to be physically/chemically impossible (if the drinks contain the same amount of alcohol). For example, for the past few years, my usual order at a bar has been a gin and tonic, and it seems like I can now drink them like water without getting drunk, but if I threw another sort of drink into the mix (say, a couple of rum and cokes), I’ll unexpectedly get knocked on my ass. The alcohol content of a G&T vs. R&C is probably roughly the same, so...is this just my imagination?

[Hung Mung]

I know a guy who can drink most of a 750ml bottle of Jack over the course of a night and still stumble back to his apartment.

Give him about four beers and he gets reeeeal glazed over and falls asleep on the couch. How's that for a difference of tolerance?

[Tristan]

Please excuse the terrible spelling and grammar in the previous post.

Don't worry about it too much. The Internet has helped us build up a tolerance.

:D

[Ruckinge]

What about bullets?

[ZipperJJ]

Are swimming goggles sufficient protection against airborne sulfur compounds from onions? Or are they not sufficiently airtight?




Personally I have noticed that since I began wearing contact lenses I am much less affected by onions.


Wouldn't the molecules that are doing the irritating still get into the nose and irritate it? As we all know - nose irritants can cause your eyes to water (read: pulling out nosehairs)

I've heard that holding a piece of bread in your mouth helps. Keeps the irritants in the air from making it to your nose and eyes.

The cold water - and advice from a pro - seems to make sense. The water would keep the molecules from becomming airborne so quickly.

[Alan Smithee]

I know a guy who can drink most of a 750ml bottle of Jack over the course of a night and still stumble back to his apartment.

Give him about four beers and he gets reeeeal glazed over and falls asleep on the couch. How's that for a difference of tolerance?
It's possible he's reacting to the hops in the beer, rather than the alcohol. Hops make many people sleepy.

[cher3]

Regarding reactions to changing drinks, I recall reading somewhere that some accidental drug overdoses may occur when the user has built up a resistance to the drug, but then takes the same dose under significantly different circumstances (e.g., a different time of day.) Apparently, the body can get used to a certain routine regarding the drug use, and actually begins to physically respond to that routine even before the drug hits the system. Change the routine and the same amount hits an unprepared body. Maybe something like that is happening when you change drinks. I really wish I had a cite, because it's an interesting idea.

[BMax]

It's possible he's reacting to the hops in the beer, rather than the alcohol. Hops make many people sleepy.

That would explain why O'Doul's makes me feel bloated & sleepy but not drunk.

[Quercus]

I thought I'd heard of cases of people building up an immunity to arsenic so they could poison someone with it

I've heard of an least once similar incident with iocane powder. [/end pointless cultural reference]

[Quercus]

And I meant to add useful info:

Capsaicin does not in fact physically harm tissue, so there's no way to be burned or actually damaged by it. It stimulates nerve endings, which makes it feel like something is burning, but no real damage is done.

Evidently, repeated application can 'fatigue' nerve endings, so they don't transmit pain signals as well. Thus it seems eminently possible to build up a resistance, at least in the short term (days at a time).

I suspect for capsaicin, there's also some mental tolerance built up -- as you get used to the feeling, you get more comfortable with it, and can mentally tolerate it more -- particularly as there's no real damage done.

[samm]

you guys! you guys! this is SO important that i had to register to tell you all:

you know how water will stay in a straw if you hold your finger over one end of it? and it will run right out if release your finger?

the same principle applies to onions! do NOT cut one end off and none (fewer) of the juices/vapors will run out and make you cry!

try it! it's amazing! you can practically get your face inches from it and barely notice.

shame on all you chefs for not knowing this!

[dlack]

!!

[CanTak3]

I don't know how you would build a tolerance to Listerine. You don't ingest it! If it tastes bad, it always will. Tolerance is your body adapting to chemicals put into it and compensating for them better and better each time.

I personally have a friend who drinks over a full liter of alcohol every single day. He can and does on occasion finish a full 1.75 of booze (though he'll fall asleep in odd places after that amount). Types don't matter for him. Whisky, brandy, vodka, rum, anything. You'd never know he was drunk until he had consumed more alcohol at one time that I could in a full weekend.

I'd imagine that you could build a tolerance to some level for anything, but you'd still have adverse effects on yourself. Needles hurt to me, but a diabetic will tell you they don't feel it at all. You can even build a tolerance to pain for some sorts.

[Johanna]

Some of the burn from Listerine comes from the thymol which is a strong germ killer. It's the same compound that gives thyme its flavor, used in seasoning food. When just the leaves of the plant are used, it imparts a savory aroma to cuisine. When the essential oil is concentrated, it can cause severe irritation, worse than capsaicin, on contact. That's what's in Listerine.

Ancient legends of the kingdom of Pontus tell of the king Mithridates who fought the Roman Empire. He was said to have taken minute quantities of poisons beginning when he was a boy, and was reputed to have built up enough of a tolerance to them to be able to survive poisoning attempts. He gave his name to the verb "mithridate" meaning to gradually build up such a tolerance. Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote a bizarre poem titled "Mithridates" in which he imagined the king of Pontus omnivorously devouring all kinds of non-food objects in a sort of indiscriminate appetite.

[Kolak of Twilo]

Is it true that you can slowly build up a tolerance to poisons?


According to this report (http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/TXQAas.htm) from Dartmouth University you apparently can, at least as far as arsenic is concerned.

From the article:
There is evidence that humans and other animals can build up tolerance to the toxic effects of arsenic. A society of "arsenic eaters" who deliberately consumed arsenic-laden soils in their religious practices developed a high tolerance for arsenic. Rasputin was reported to regularly ingest arsenic to build tolerance and to protect himself from poisoning.

[jsgoddess]

I can already eat Jalapeños and not (generally) find them very hot, but they do make me feel rotten (as do banana peppers, green chiles and raw onions). Can that sort of tolerance be increased?

[Ring]

you guys! you guys! this is SO important that i had to register to tell you all:

you know how water will stay in a straw if you hold your finger over one end of it? and it will run right out if release your finger?

the same principle applies to onions! do NOT cut one end off and none (fewer) of the juices/vapors will run out and make you cry!

try it! it's amazing! you can practically get your face inches from it and barely notice.

shame on all you chefs for not knowing this!

I find this hard to believe, but nonetheless I’m going to give it a try. If your expenditure saves my poor eyeballs I at least will consider it to be money well spent. And BTW welcome to the good ship SDMB.

Also anybody know how I should of punctuated “….eyeballs I at least will consider…”

[jawdirk]

If your expenditure saves my poor eyeballs I at least will consider it to be money well spent. And BTW welcome to the good ship SDMB.

If your expenditure saves my poor eyeballs, at least I will consider it money well spent.

[silenus]

I've had just the opposite reaction as the OP to Listerine. I've gotten so used to it that using Scope or something similar has no effect. It feels so weak. Same thing with alcohol. My favorite tipple these days is Old Weller Antique bourbon, at 107 proof. If I have some Jim Beam, it tastes like water. Same with chilis. I eat jalapenos like they were Tic-Tacs. :D

Guess I can get used to just about anything.

[RandomLetters]

Are swimming goggles sufficient protection against airborne sulfur compounds from onions? Or are they not sufficiently airtight?



The goggles, they do nothing!

[Kegg]

I've tried the "do not cut the root end" and it works sort of.
________________________________________________________
Spelling and grammer subject to change withour notice.

[FilmGeek]

Agreed with Kegg, except it doesn't work at all for me. However, I have a pretty severe reaction to onions (lasts an hour or two usually) with tearing so bad I can't see and a lot of pain.

I just don't cook with onions, it's easier.

[Shalmanese]

It doesn't work. The standard chef's way of dicing an onion involves not cutting off the root. You still cry like a motherfuck when you do it though.

[vetbridge]

Guess I can get used to just about anything.

Bet you wouldn't say that after meeting my ex. ;)