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Paul in Qatar
08-15-2005, 08:23 AM
On another thread, a nasty right wing fellow has been called a repressed homosexual. That is to say he is attacking homosexuals and homosexuality in general because he is a 'repressed homosexual' himself.

So a question, not a debate. Is there such a thing? Are there historical examples with which I would be familiar? Are there any other repressed things? Repressed Jews? Norwegians?

What is the cause of such an odd condition?

CalMeacham
08-15-2005, 08:27 AM
I was a repressed Heterosexual for a long time, but it turned out that Pepper Mill had a cure for that.

Paul in Qatar
08-15-2005, 08:33 AM
Huh?

DocCathode
08-15-2005, 08:56 AM
On another thread, a nasty right wing fellow has been called a repressed homosexual. That is to say he is attacking homosexuals and homosexuality in general because he is a 'repressed homosexual' himself.

So a question, not a debate. Is there such a thing? Are there historical examples with which I would be familiar? Are there any other repressed things? Repressed Jews? Norwegians?

What is the cause of such an odd condition?

A man who is homophobic due to his own repressed homosexuality? I'll have to get back to you on that.

Repressed homosexuals? We have at least one Doper who married and had a child before realizing he was just doing what society had told him to do, and accepting that he was gay.

Repressed Jews? Thankfully, this not nearly as common as it used to be. Into at least the fifties, there were plenty of American Jews who changed their names, hid their culture, and gave up Judaism in order to be accepted.

Old joke-

"Look, Mister Stein, you cannot join our country club."

"My name is Stone now."

"Chaim Stone?"

"Herman. It's Herman now. And I've shaved my beard."

"Be that as it may, we do not let ... certain people join our club."

"But I've converted. I'm not a Jew anymore."

"Oh? What are you now?"

"I'm a goy!"

Which leads me to a question you didn't ask-

Are there repressed goys? Absolutely. In fact, most American goys are repressed. "So, Christopher, your father died yesterday?" "Why, yes he did Peter. I feel pretty broken up about it, let me tell you." It's eerie is what it is.

Padeye
08-15-2005, 09:00 AM
Are there any other repressed things? Repressed Jews? Norwegians?Olaf Goldberg apparently could not deal with his heritage.

Being Norwegian or Jewish isn't quite the same as the trait of being homosexual. I don't thin think either of those thing coud "repressed" in the same way one's sexuality could be. The Simpsons Mr. Smithers took a drug to make him like boobies (a naturally occuring chemical in my brain) but AFAIK there is no such medication or therapy to make one less of a Norskie.

I'm not sure if the infamous Roy Cohn would be an example of repressed homosexuality as from all accounts it was more or less an open secret. If he had been completely open about his sexuality it would have been at the cost of his career but I doubt if he ever fooled himself into thinking he was heterosexual.

I have seen examples of self repressing gay people in my encounter with Exodous. People who admitted they were gay in the past but now claimed they had been "cured." Based on my brother's experience I have no doubt many homosexuals have repressed their own homosexuality to the point of even convincing themselves they are straight.

Paul in Qatar
08-15-2005, 09:01 AM
I fear in my innocence I am being whosshed.

Duck Duck Goose
08-15-2005, 09:02 AM
Huh?

It's a joke.

Kinda.



Paul, to answer your question [stares pointedly at Cal :D ] it is still evidently only a psychiatric "theory", not a psychiatric "fact".

http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html
Repressed Homosexuality Could Be Root of Homophobia

New research lends considerable credence to the psychoanalytic theory that repressed homosexual urges may be at the root of homophobic behavior by heterosexual men.

Using a scale that measures traits of homophobia--fear, anger, anxiety, or aversion in response to interactions with gay men or lesbians--University of Georgia researchers compared 35 men who exhibited homophobic traits with 29 men who do not. Both groups identified themselves as exclusively heterosexual... [more]
Does that help? As for where the cause of such an odd condition could come from, well, just simple "denial" works for me.

Padeye
08-15-2005, 09:11 AM
I have to admit I didn't get quite get the pepper mill joke. I saw some fabulous Peugeot pepper mills when I was in Europe last summer but I don't think they had any effect on my sexuality.

Paul in Qatar
08-15-2005, 09:16 AM
I see there is another thread on this. Please feel free to close this one. Sorry.

CalMeacham
08-15-2005, 09:20 AM
Such confusion.

Pepper Mill is the nom de computer my wife went by when she posted, and that I still use in referring to her (It's her Drag Queen/Hooker name, using the joke formula). I thought I'd used her name often enough for it to be familiar to longtime Dopers. As for the rest, if you can't figure it out, there's no hope for any of us.

Johanna
08-15-2005, 01:15 PM
Cal, I have to agree with Paul, you're way far over into the coy zone with your Doper in-jokes. Too much of that could make for a somewhat less than scintillating Dope experience. I've been a Doper for considerably longer than you, kiddo, and I wasn't aware of the reference. Although familiarity with particular forums can influence Doper in-joke awareness levels. If your in-joke was a native of MPSIMS, I might have missed it. I tend to spend most of my Dope time in "serious" forums like General Questions rather than "party" forums like MPSIMS. When I went into MPSIMS to celebrate either my 2000th or 3000th post, a few years ago, someone said they didn't recognize me from anywhere.

Colibri
08-15-2005, 01:38 PM
I had to figure out the "Pepper Mill" joke from context - I wasn't familiar with the name - but I could just have easily have assumed it referred to some chain restaurant like Cracker Barrel.

Bryan Ekers
08-15-2005, 01:56 PM
Accusing someone of being a "repressed" (or "latent") homosexual is an attempt to put that person on the defensive. It's easier but less honest that addressing his statements directly, but frankly by this point the person being accused is likely a demonstrable nut, anyway, and serious debate is a waste of time.

I'd like to see someone sufficiently skilled in hand-to-hand combat (and with adequate backup) try it on Fred Phelps one day.

CalMeacham
08-15-2005, 01:57 PM
I've been a Doper for considerably longer than you, kiddo,

Seven months out of five years is "considerably longer"?

pravnik
08-15-2005, 02:45 PM
The psychological theory usually bandied about to explain the "homophobe as repressed homosexual" is projection, a defense mechanism in which undesirable or unacceptable character traits one subconsciously see in oneself are instead projected on others. The unpleasant traits intrude on the person's consciousness and cause the person psychological pain, and projecting those thoughts as being attributable to others instead lessens that pain. Since those characteristics are distressing and unacceptable, heaping shame and derision on others that the person has projected those characteristics onto spares them from some of the internal shame and derision they feel by directing it outwardly instead of inwardly.

It makes some degree of sense and I wouldn't be surprised if at least some homophobia and gay-bashing occurs in response to painful and intrusive homsexual thoughts, but most likely some people denigrate homosexuality merely because they honestly believe their religion requires it, and other people just plain need someone to hate.

Huerta88
08-15-2005, 06:34 PM
The "projection" theory is consistent with how I've heard this meme used. I've always associated "projection" with Freudian theory (I'm not sure if it's formally part of it, but I've generally encountered it from the same people who have been fond of blurting out now-discredited theories of "oralism" and "Oedipal" crap, so I lump them in together, and assume that "projection" is on a plane with the bulk of Freudianism in terms of its scientific basis, namely, it has little).

I suspect there are a minority of cases in which persons struggling with or resisting homosexual impulses or preferences become obsessed with homosexuality as a theme and express such obsession in the socially-acceptable (to them) form of deploring homosexuality. Fr. Bruce Ritter, who ended up molesting or otherwise exploiting numerous of his young charges, was reportedly (before his unmasking) inordinately concerned with portraying and "deploring" the victimization of young, attractive blond boys in his fundraising pitches for Covenant House.

I suspect in the considerably larger number of cases, persons who say they dislike homosexuals or disapprove of homosexual lifestyles are saying so because (as Occam might predict) they actually do. We do not commonly posit that most Republicans are expressing Republican rhetoric because deep down they are secretly afraid they are McCarthy Democrats, or that most avowed New York Giants fans are actually hiding a deep and shameful passion for the Dallas Cowboys.

Homosexual activists and their supporters have, I think, seized on the "repressed homosexual" meme as a dishonest, in terrorem way of silencing (rather than arguing with) their opponents. Knowing that anti-homosexuals believe homosexuality to be wrong, pro-homosexuals (who don't believe this) nonetheless accuse the antis of being closeted homosexuals (which, if you think there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, should not be the subject of a legitimate "accusation"). The intent and effect is clearly to intimidate any who would voice doubts about positive views of homosexuality.

The only possible justification I could envision for this mudslinging is if the "pro" homo. crowd could credibly claim to be "exposing hypocrisy" by revealing rampant unacknowledged homo. behavior by the avowed antis. However, until someone demonstrates that as a factual proposition, most or even many avowed antis are in fact closet cases (something more than the anecdotage that I concede could be adduced as to certain right wing politicians over the years, etc.), I submit that it is question begging to rely on the "hypocrisy" safe harbor to justify a broad-brush characterization of homosexual-critical persons or organizations as being motivated by inner torment over their own homosexual impulses, rather than by genuine (if disagreeable, to some) conviction.

elfkin477
08-15-2005, 06:59 PM
I've been a Doper for considerably longer than you, kiddo, and I wasn't aware of the reference

I haven't been here as long as you, but I knew who he meant. I totally misinterpreted the comment on first read (thinking his wife somehow turned him off women) but at least I knew who he meant :p Maybe the name should have been in bold, though.