How many names *does* God have?

[Kythereia]

Inspired by today's Weird Earl website, earmarked, "One of the six million names of God: Roshambo. (http://www.emf.net/~estephen/roshambo/")"

I get that the Deity on high doesn't have exactly six million names, but how many names does the Big Cheese have? Any way of finding out?

[silenus]

You don't want to know. According to Arthur C. Clarke, when we do (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=104020).....


"Look," whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to
heaven. (There is always a last time for everything.)
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.

[DocCathode]

I get that the Deity on high doesn't have exactly six million names, but how many names does the Big Cheese have? Any way of finding out?

First you have to define G-d strictly. Then, you have to define what does and does not qualify as a name.

Are you going with G-d according to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or something else?

Do things like the Lord Of Hosts count as names or are they just titles?

You also have to research any supposed names. Ripley's Believe It Or Not once published a list giving Odin as a name of G-d. I've heard a theory that Odin's title of Allfather was originally associated with an otherwise nameless deity who created the universe. Going by that theory, Allfather was in many ways analogous to the G-d of Judaism/Christianty/Islam and it isn't too much of a stretch to call Allfather one of the names of G-d. But Odin? No, I don't think so.

[Polycarp]

You don't want to know. According to Arthur C. Clarke, when we do (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=104020).....


"Look," whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to
heaven. (There is always a last time for everything.)
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.

My congratulations and extreme jealousness on having gotten this post in ahead of me! :)

[coop]

Seeing as how no one has done it... here you go... (http://lucis.net/stuff/clarke/9billion_clarke.html) :cool:

[Anaamika]

My congratulations and extreme jealousness on having gotten this post in ahead of me! :)
And my jealousness on you beating me on being jealous!

[Q.E.D.]

Seeing as how no one has done it... here you go... (http://lucis.net/stuff/clarke/9billion_clarke.html) :cool:
Click the link in the first reply.

[coop]

Click the link in the first reply.
I did and couldn't find the story in there. Found many links to other things, but not the story. Can you tell me which one is the link you are talking about on that site???

[dtilque]

I do wonder about a couple things:

1. 9e9 or 9e12? Clarke is British, but he puts the words in an American's mouth. So who's billion is he using?

2. Could a (50s era) printer actually print that many (whatever the answer to question 1 is) 9 letter words in only 3 months? Doesn't seem like a long enough time. Especially when you consider down time to replace worn out parts.

[Clothahump]

Since there is no proof of the existance of a god of any kind, it's kind of a meaningless question.

However, if we assume that a deity of some kind exists and follows the blueprint of superpowers, superknowledge, etc., then I would assume that the answer would be that he/she/it would have as many names as he/she/it wanted. Who's gonna tell him/her/it differently?

[Anaamika]

Clothahump, the story referenced is pretty good, even if you are an atheist (as I am).

[Paul in Qatar]

By Islamic tradition, ninety-nine. My favorite is "The Subtle One." That makes me chuckle.

[DocCathode]

Since there is no proof of the existance of a god of any kind, it's kind of a meaningless question.

Meaningless, perhaps, but not unanswerable. How many kinds of Kryptonite are there? We've had several threads which definitively answered that question. If Kytheria defines the term more clearly, we can begin to find an answer.

[cabdude]

But how many names does Og have?

[Diceman]

But how many names does Og have?
So far as I know, just one :D

To attempt an actual answer to the OP's question, these are the traditional Christian names used for God that I can think of offhand:

God
The Lord
The Father
The Almighty
The Creator
Yaweh
Jehova

Are we to assume that equivalent names in other languages don't count? That's probably the only way you could get six million names, but I say that's cheating. I'll let Dopers of other faiths deal with Judaism, Islam, and other religions.

[Monty]

I do wonder about a couple things:

1. 9e9 or 9e12? Clarke is British, but he puts the words in an American's mouth. So who's [sic] billion is he using?

Interestig question. I recall the story but don't recall where the project was set.

2. Could a (50s era) printer actually print that many (whatever the answer to question 1 is) 9 letter words in only 3 months? Doesn't seem like a long enough time. Especially when you consider down time to replace worn out parts.
Wasn't the story set in the future?

[Monty]

Quite funny. I put in the [sic] comment above and now see that I missed my own misspelling!

Interestig [sic] question.

[cosmosdan]

9 billion names you say?

NO WAY!!


Ya....weh! :D

[DocCathode]

Interestig question. I recall the story but don't recall where the project was set.


Wasn't the story set in the future?


IIRC The company was in New York. However, head lama is the one who says "nine billion". I don't remember if there's a mention of where he learned English.

One very minor problem I had with the story, assuming the computer can print up all the names of G-d that quickly (remember that the program was random combinations of characters in an unnamed alphabet. Some combinations, such as any one that used the same character three times in a row were ekiminated and not printed), the narrator says that the lamas take each page of printout and paste it into special books. Assuming a font big enough to be read by a human eye, and assuming pages three feet by four feet or smaller, that's one heck of a lot of pages.

[panamajack]

I think it's 9 x 109. The names are all 10 letters long, with the condition that no three letters are repeated. With a 10-letter alphabet, this comes to about 9 billion (American). I don't think the number of letters in their alphabet is identified. However, it is suggested that the computers would not have to be modified much, aside from the print-out. This seems to indicate that the conversion to (or calculation in) base-10 would not be changed.



Back to the OP, I'd assume different languages would have different names as well (though they might mean the same literal thing, e.g. 'Almighty'). And since we can always synthesize more languages, it does indeed seem limited in some way by the largest alphabet we care to imagine (and computing power, I suppose).

[Monty]

Ah, that's one other thing I remember from the story. The elimination was for four characters in a row, not three. One of the characters specifically asked another about that with "Surely you mean three?" or words to that effect. Or perhaps I'm misremembering.

[Captain Carrot]

As I recall, the lama (or whatever) was taking hem on a tour (or something to that approximate effect), and described what the machine wasn't supposed to print, which included strings with four or more successive identical characters. Then one of the protagonists interrupts and says, "Surely you mean three or more times?", and the lama says, basically, "No, I meant what I said, we're using a different alphabet.".

[DocCathode]

Y'know. Coop did link to the full story.

all such names can be written with not more than nine letters in an alphabet we have devised. . .

. . . Exactly -- though we use a special alphabet of our own. Modifying the electromatic typewriters to deal with this is, of course, trivial. A rather more interesting problem is that of devising suitable circuits to eliminate ridiculous combinations. For example, no letter must occur more than three times in succession."

"Three? Surely you mean two."

"Three is correct. I am afraid it would take too long to explain why, even if you understood our language." . . .


PanamaJack There is no information on how many characters are in the special alphabet. If no letter can appear more than three times in a row, the alphabet is at least two characters. I think it's safe to set the upper limit at five thousand characters. Can anybody else narrow it down a bit?

[Chronos]

One should note that, in the story, the computer was printing out a lot of things which were not Names of God, as well as genuine Names. The monks had worked out (by means unspecified) some necessary conditions on a Name of God, but not all of them, and so to be on the safe side, recorded every name which matched all of their criteria.

Also, "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" are not two different names, but two different renderings of the same name, which would more properly be rendered using the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (which I will not here record, both out of respect for the religious beliefs of others and out of a lack of familiarity with the Hebrew alphabet).

[DocCathode]

One should note that, in the story, the computer was printing out a lot of things which were not Names of God, as well as genuine Names. The monks had worked out (by means unspecified) some necessary conditions on a Name of God, but not all of them, and so to be on the safe side, recorded every name which matched all of their criteria.

I thought I mentioned that.

Also, "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" are not two different names, but two different renderings of the same name, which would more properly be rendered using the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (which I will not here record, both out of respect for the religious beliefs of others and out of a lack of familiarity with the Hebrew alphabet).

The letters are Yod Hey Vav Hey. Keep in mind Hebrew is read from right to left so the written Name would be Hey Vav Hey Yod. With no dot, the Vav is a consonant and makes the same sound as V. With a dot over it, the Vav is a vowel making a long O sound. With a dot on the left side of it, The Vav is a vowel making an ew sound. The Vav in the Tetragrammaton has a dot over it, but also a vowel underneath it. This means that there is no proper way to pronounce it. Naturally, Jewish belief holds that speaking the name properly literally performs miracles. In Jewish thought, those four letters are the True And Ineffable Name Of G-d. All the others are just placeholders.

[CynicalGabe]

speaking the name properly literally performs miracles. In Jewish thought, those four letters are the True And Ineffable Name Of G-d. All the others are just placeholders.

Whoa. :eek:

[dtilque]

Wasn't the story set in the future?
It doesn't really say. But like virtually all SF writers of the time (up through the early 70s at least) Clarke isn't very precient about how computers will evolve. Most stories either ignore computers or if they have them, they are just like the ones at the time the story is written. Or sometimes just bigger and a bit faster than that. So I assume that Clarke had existing printers in mind when he wrote the story.

Certainly what little we get about the computer is no better than a 50's era calculator. For example, it's made only to handle numbers, so it doesn't even have a character set.

[Paul in Qatar]

God
The Lord
The Father
The Almighty
The Creator
Yaweh
Jehova


The Alpha, The Omega

[cabdude]

Surely this is more a philosophical question, with no strict answer, along the lines of "how many angels dance on the head of a pin?"

[N9IWP]

Surely this is more a philosophical question, with no strict answer, along the lines of "how many angels dance on the head of a pin?"

fourty-two?

Brian

[Scott Plaid]

<snip>
God
The Lord
The Father
The Almighty
The Creator
Yaweh
Jehova
<snip>What about “For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God”.

[mojave66]

(Waheguruji ka Khalsa, Waheguruji ke Fateh!)

In the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh holy book, it is written that there are infinite names for God, since all who worship one creator, either as a single entity or an entity with many facets or representations are worshiping the SAME God The SGGS can be interpreted such that beings on other planets are mentioned as worshipping God, too, interestingly enough). We Sikhs believe there is no one true path to God; all are valid.

Historically speaking, Sikhism was founded in 1499 by Guru Nanak who was born Hindu but also studied Islam and was deeply spiritual. He went for his usual morning swim and never returned, after an extensive search was presumed drowned. He returned some time later much to his family's shock but was silent for three days. His first words were "There is no Hindu nor Musalman [Muslim]." He then talked of meeting God during the time he was absent, and spent the next 20 years traveling through the Middle East and South Asia to teach about the experience.

[Malacandra]

By Islamic tradition, ninety-nine. My favorite is "The Subtle One." That makes me chuckle.

Plus a hundredth name known only to the camel, which is why the dumb beast looks so insufferably smug. :D

[ouryL]

Yes, but he only answers to ~!@#$%^&*()_+=-`{}|":[]\';<>?/.

[douglips]

Harold.

Our Father, who art in heaven - Harold be thy name...

[Enola Straight]

"Over the 50 year4s that I have subscribed to National Geographic, I have often chucked at scientists either expounding or scratching their heads over matters that have been settled for me long ago by my faith in God. Your article says, "Something out there holds swarms of galaxies together and keeps their stars from flying apart,but scientists still haven't learned what this invisible substance is." Although I am familiar with the many names of God, this is the first time I heard Him called Dark Matter."
-Clyde A. Bachelor, members forum

[Clothahump]

Clothahump, the story referenced is pretty good, even if you are an atheist (as I am).

Oh, I've read it. Many times. It's one of Clarke's better efforts, and that's saying something.

[Foaming Cleanser]

Originally Written By Arthur C. Clarke
"Thank you. It appears to be--ah--adequate. The second matter is so trivial that I hesitate to mention it -- but it’s surprising how often the obvious gets overlooked. What source of electrical energy have you?"
So, even in the '50s, the support guy's script included asking whether the thing is plugged in.

[Foaming Cleanser]

Originally Written By Arthur C. Clarke
"What source of electrical energy have you?"
Even in the '50s, support told users to check the plug.

[Foaming Cleanser]

Sorry. I had cancelled the first post, I thought.