My very first lay-off!

[Phantom Dennis]

My position, along with a dozen or so other jobs at my company, has been eliminated. I wasn't supposed to find out until Monday, but a friend in upper management was kind enough to give me a heads-up (on the condition that I keep it secret until Monday). I'm glad he trusts me with such important information.

We've all known that business has been very bad in the last couple of months, but I'm sill a little shocked at the suddenness of the whole thing. As the title says, this is my first lay-off.

Tomorrow I will have a cushy, white-collar computer job with my own laptop and super-sized cubicle on the top floor, and Monday I'll probably be escorted (along with a handful of other unlucky souls) out of the building by security guards while the electronic locks are changed behind us.

I'm glad I found out today, because now I have plenty of time to work through the emotions. The shock will be over by Monday, and I'll be able to act in a calm and respectful manner as my livelihood, medical plan, and 401K is yanked from under my feet. Hopefully I'll even be able to offer solace to my fellow corporate refugees.

I'm almost more worried about them than myself. My "source" refused to tell me who they were, fearing I'd be tempted to warn them. I think I can guess who most of them are though. My company's not very big, and a dozen people amounts to about 10% of the workforce. Some of them are friendly, intelligent, hard-working people. Some of them have been with the company for decades. And some need their jobs far more than I do. They don't deserve this kind of treatment.

I'm afraid some of them might lose control when they get the news. It's going to be difficult to see that. I don't know the standard protocol for these kind of lay-offs, but I'm guessing we'll be kept separate, in case emotions run high and we end up fueling each other's fires.

I don't find this very comforting. Yes, I might be spared the pain of watching the emotional breakdown of a coworker, but I think I'd feel better if we could stick together and offer each other moral support. So at least we can feel like we're in it together.

I'm not very upset about losing my job. It wasn't the best work in the world. I'd been playing with the idea of finding new employment for a few months now, so this might be a blessing in disguise. I'll no longer be tempted to remain in a comfortable-yet-dead-end situation. Now that the inertia's been taken away, I *have* to go out and find a better job. Job hunting is going to be a big pain in the ass, but I've been through it before, and I've always managed to climb out of the hole one way or the other.

Things could be worse. I could have kids to support. Or mortgage payments. My health is good, I've got a few grand in the bank, and I've got loving, supportive parents who'd give me the clothes off their back if I needed it.

I guess I'll let you folks know how Monday goes, if you're interested in hearing about it.

[Pixisis]

i was laid off for the first time this year. fortunately, like you, i don't have kids to support, or a mortgage. ( i do have a cat to feed though) we found out last November that we were being outsourced and i found out in March that July 1st was my last day. since i had been with the company for more than 15 years i got severance pay through the end of the year. so ... i came to Germany for an extended visit with my brother. i was extremely lucky in that i was offered a job before my last one ended (but after i had decided to come to Germany, otherwise i wouldn't be here). unfortunately, it's contract work, so no benefits and i have to do my own withholding. but at least it's income while i look for something more permanent. (my new boss knows that i want a more regular job)

please do keep us updated ... and best of luck with everything !

[Madd Maxx]

Don't forget to resupply your home office before you go! Paper, pens and pencils et al. are expensive when you have to pay for them. Make sure you stock up before Monday though. It seems that after you get laid off they frown upon that sort of thing. Good luck finding a new job, you will be fine; you sound like you are stable enough to handle the lay off.

[China Guy]

NEVER EVER sign the termination papers right away. Standard operating procedure is to shock terminees, and get them to sign. You can almost always get a better deal by stalling for a day or week. "I need to talk to my manager first" or "I need to talk to my lawyer about my contract"

Once you sign that "voluntary" resignation form then you are without recourse

[Dangerosa]

No one ever "deserves" to get laid off. Even the incompetant - who save face in a layoff, would be better served had someone put them on a reasonable performance plan, explained what they were doing wrong, helped them correct and if that wasn't happening, sent them to the school of hard knocks by firing them for cause.

However, lay offs are often necessary. As hard as it is on the people getting laid off, trust me when I tell you that often (there are heartless exceptions) it is hard on management. Its hard to make the decision - and often the decision is delayed hoping things will get better which can make it worse in the end. Its hard to decide which people go and which stay - and often you let someone who is a hard worker with potential go for someone who is lazy but has the business knowledge you need to keep going. Its hard to spend the day telling people they don't have jobs. There is a reason I turned down my last offer to rejoin management - I don't have the heart for layoffs.

Keep your chin up and best wishes - you seem to have a pretty good attitude about it.

[LionelHutz405]

Don't forget to resupply your home office before you go! Paper, pens and pencils et al. are expensive when you have to pay for them. Make sure you stock up before Monday though. It seems that after you get laid off they frown upon that sort of thing.

That is terrible advice. For one thing it’s wrong – paper, pens and pencils are cheap. You can buy a year’s supply for a few bucks.

A reputation as a thief is not going to help you in a job search. Sheesh.

[Madd Maxx]

I guess I forgot the :tongue in cheek: smilie.

[mack]

However, lay offs are often necessary. As hard as it is on the people getting laid off, trust me when I tell you that often (there are heartless exceptions) it is hard on management.
I can see that, but for her coworkers' sake I hope June's company gave them a little warning about what's coming down the pike. If perfectly fine employees come in Monday, la-de-da, only to be sacked out of the blue, that's a downright shitty way to treat people.

we found out last November that we were being outsourced and i found out in March that July 1st was my last day.
That's the best way to do it.

[Driver8]

I can see that, but for her coworkers' sake I hope June's company gave them a little warning about what's coming down the pike. If perfectly fine employees come in Monday, la-de-da, only to be sacked out of the blue, that's a downright shitty way to treat people.


That's the best way to do it.

From an ethical point of view, I agree with you. I think both employer and employee should give reasonable notice of an intention to terminate the employment agreement. However, it seems many employers are nervous about allowing empoyees who know they have been terminated access to the facilities, and potentially sensitive information.

[Pixisis]

From an ethical point of view, I agree with you. I think both employer and employee should give reasonable notice of an intention to terminate the employment agreement. However, it seems many employers are nervous about allowing empoyees who know they have been terminated access to the facilities, and potentially sensitive information.


heh. i was a network administrator ... i had a lot of access ! fact is, they wouldn't have been able to run the office(s) effectively without me (us). by letting us know in advance and telling us what our stay bonuses would be, they kept things running relatively smoothly until the actual turnover.

the crappy thing they did was telling people if they were offered a job with the company to whom they were outsourcing their IT functions and they turned down that job they would get no severence -- even though at the same pay it was a 10% + hit for people (no raise, no profit sharing, no bonuses, decrease in contribution to 401K)

i'm still in touch will people at the company, and they've lost half of the staff they moved to the outsourcing company, a critical part of the plan for continued support of the proprietary apps. i hear things are going downhill fast. and the third party to whom the outsource provider has subcontracted onsite support has a very different philosophy than the internal onsite support people did.

but i think my favorite thing out of all this is:
i got an email from a former coworker* last week. she had had a problem and had called the help desk ... and they told her to call me ! :smack:
so, i relplyed with my brother's phone number in Germany and told her which phones could place international calls (i also used to administer the phone switch :D )


* in this case, truly not a cow-orker.

[msmith537]

NEVER EVER sign the termination papers right away. Standard operating procedure is to shock terminees, and get them to sign. You can almost always get a better deal by stalling for a day or week. "I need to talk to my manager first" or "I need to talk to my lawyer about my contract"

Once you sign that "voluntary" resignation form then you are without recourse


Deal for what? What are you going to do? Not accept the layoff? It's generally good advice to not sign anything right away. Especially any kind of non-compete agreement. But as for getting a better deal, I think any severance package is more a courtesy of the company.

[mack]

However, it seems many employers are nervous about allowing empoyees who know they have been terminated access to the facilities, and potentially sensitive information. I suppose, but I think this fear might be overblown. There's a greater chance that catastrophe will emanate from someone well-established than from someone who's just losing their job and will soon be looking for another, IMO.

My company, which has it's share of secrets, gives downsized people at least a month notice. There's also an "if you ever want to work in this industry again....." mentality that makes one not want to burn bridges. People don't get escorted off the premises by security unless they've been fired for some egregious offense.

While it's not much help to an employee personally, a company can let people know cuts are coming in a non-specific way. Nobody's going to sabotage anything, and a lot of ill will is avoided. Of course, June's company could have a higher authority that requires it to terminate employees the way it's going to. I don't know.

[Giles]

With my one lay-off, at the age 52 after working for the place about 20 years, i had 6 months notice, during which I could apply for other positions. (This was in a well-unionised place, and the union had negotiated a good redundancy deal.) I also got a significant amount in redunancy payment, on top of payment for my unused leave. I then spent about 6 months unemployed; but 2 years later I got a much better job, in as different country, paying about twice what I was getting before they let me go. And the person who had made the decision that my position was redundant had been moved sideways -- effectively demoted -- for his trouble.

So while it can be painful, in the long run it can be better for you. (If not laid off, I might not have taken my present job, because I would have had too good a superannuation scheme to leave. But that decision had already been made for me.)

[Quartz]

Just a thought, but I've seen it suggested here that you ask them to keep you on their books for some time - not paid, of course - so you can legitimately say when jobhunting that you are currently employed.

[China Guy]

Deal for what? What are you going to do? Not accept the layoff? It's generally good advice to not sign anything right away. Especially any kind of non-compete agreement. But as for getting a better deal, I think any severance package is more a courtesy of the company.In my experience of getting laid off (3 times), I could always get HR or management to sweeten the deal. Everyone or most everyone had signed, and the company wanted the layoffs to be done and move on with what they have to move on with.

You've got to be reasonable, professional and have a good idea of what to go for that is palatable to the company.

[Lamar Mundane]

I got laid off in late August, 2001. Two weeks before Sept. 11th. To be a jobseeker in the aftermath of 9/11 was a horror I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I was out of work for seven months, but got a good position in my field in March of '02, one week before my unemployment benefits expired. I have since taken a new job, and make 3.5 times the money I made at the job I was laid off from.

It sucks, but good can come from it. I am so happy I am not at the old job anymore.

[DaddyTimesTwo]

I am the thick of the job hunt, as I found out in June that my job, along with 115 odd others, will be eliminated at the end of October. I'll get a nice severance that will take me into next year if I stay until the end. I have a family to support, but my wife had been talking about going back to school and/or starting a career, which she put on hold when the kids were born. And the kids both started new school (kindergarten for the boy and preschool for the girl), with buses and car pools to coordinate. There's been no small amount of stress in the house these days. ;)

I'm also a computer guy, a programmer/analyst with dinosaur skills (VB6, no web, no .NET) and a fairly stereotypical nerdy aversion to playing the interview, job-hunting game. "Action verbs" and "hard numbers". Yech.

How about those who are job hunting follow up? Kind of like a support group? That might help me, might not. I'll try to as well. Good luck to those who need it.

[EarthStone777]

I was laid off twice.

The first time was a shock. I was an assistant manager in retail at a corporate store. The home office decided to turn all the corporate stores into franchises and as part of that they decided in their infinite wisdom to lay off all of the assistant managers.

They laid me off a week before all the rest on the sole reason that it was the day before my anniversary date. Vacation time was allocated on the anniversary of your hire date and if I worked one more day, they would owe me two weeks vacation time that they would have to pay for when they laid me off. This was also despite the fact that I had been next in line to become a store manager for nearly a year and one of the store managers was planning on moving out of state in the next month or two. (I had the most seniority and was the best trained and qualified of all the assistant managers and had been told repeatedly by the Regional Manager that I was next to be promoted when their was an opening.)

The next week they laid off all the other assistant managers in the 6 stores near mine.

The following week, they called me up to ask me to come back to work... because they were short staffed! Without the assistant managers they didn't have enough trained key holders to staff the stores when even a single one of the got sick.

I asked if I would get the two weeks vacation and keep my seniority. They had the balls to say no. They would take me back as a new hire. ... This isn't the Pitt, so I'll spare you the verbal blistering I gave then before I hung up.

The second time the chain of health food stores I worked for was bought out by a national chain* and after claiming for a year they were going to expand us (all the while making cut after cut), they started converting our stores into theirs (if they didn't have one of their own close by) or just closing them outright.

I stuck it out moving to three seperate stores as they closed out each one behind me. Finally I had nowhere left to transfer to except either take a lay off or move to one of their puny mall stores. As managers were paid based off the business their stores do, and my companies stores usually did twice the business that their stores did, I would have taken a hefty pay cut. So I took the layoff instead and within two months found another job paying almost 20% more than I was getting.

* We were the national chains biggest competition in our region. We had bigger stores, with better policies, and well trained staff. Whereever both our stores were located near each other, we prospered and their store was empty (except for a certain day of the month). But they went public and pulled in millions of dollars by selling stock and waved a hefty chunk of it in front of our owner, who sold out in a heartbeat. They are now the leading chain in the nation and they've done it by buying out and closing all their competition. Bitter, who me?

[TimeWinder]

...
I'm also a computer guy, a programmer/analyst with dinosaur skills (VB6, no web, no .NET) and a fairly stereotypical nerdy aversion to playing the interview, job-hunting game. "Action verbs" and "hard numbers". Yech.
....

You've got a month and a half, yet. Learn VB.NET. If you're any good at VB 6, it will take you a couple weeks, tops. Then learn Java, which isn't much of a stretch from VB.NET, and will greatly extend the range of jobs (you're not stuck with pure Windows shops). Any programmer who's been around long enough to have dinosaur skills should be able to learn those two languages in a month and a half, since you know a language that's far more similar than not.

When you get that next job and have more time, learn C++, too. Those three (VB.NET, Java, and C++) in combination will practically guarantee you a job in any significant non-silicon valley metro area in the country. And yes, I know it takes 2-3 years to get good at C++, so save it for last.

[Phantom Dennis]

Thanks for the replies.

Well tomorrow I step out onto the battlefield. That's the way I feel anyway. I'm nervous -- probably because I don't really know what to expect. Maybe it would've been best if I hadn't been warned 5 days ahead of time. Ignorance would've been bliss.

When exactly will I be told about my layoff? First thing in the morning? The afternoon right before the meeting? At the meeting itself (God forbid)? Who will break the bad news, my boss, or somebody higher on the corporate chain, like the President or VP? What kind of severance package will I receive (if any)?

Will I be allowed to stay for a few days/weeks, or will the termination be immediate? (I'm a database administrator with access to sensitive information, so they'd be a little daft to allow somebody with my power retain access to the system after Monday. On the other hand, some of the things I do are highly arcane by very necessary to the running of the division, so If I'm not allowed at least a few days to train somebody to take control of my more critical duties, the division may run some trouble...

In the case that I am allowed to stay, will I be allowed to take the rest of the day off to recover from the shock I'll supposed to be feeling? Will I be forced to attend the meeting where my layoff will be announced in front of the entire company, or will I be spared the humiliation?

Who else will be let go, and how will they react to it? How will the other coworkers react to the news?

Wish me luck. I'm not going to sleep well tonight.

[lno]

Best of luck and give us an update, June.

[Phantom Dennis]

Well, It's barely 9 AM and I'm already back home.

I arrived at work at 8 AM, chatted with a coworker about some movies he let me borrow over the weekend, and at 8:05, I got a call from my boss. She asked me if I wouldn't mind coming to her office for a moment. I was immensely relieved -- I knew that, whatever happened, it would all be over soon. No sitting at my desk all day watching the clock and waiting for the inevitable.

She was quick and to-the-point. "I've got some bad news. Some job's have been centralized by our corporate office, and yours is one of them. You can remain here until December 16th, and then you'll get four weeks severance pay."

Centralized. So that's what they're calling it these days. At least there were no armed escorts. No ultimatums to clean out my desk.

She offered me another position out in the warehouse. It would be a 50% pay cut, but it would be employment, and I told her I'd consider it. Maybe the bigwigs at my division would appreciate my loyalty for staying with the company even after a layoff (if they still understand concepts like 'loyalty' or 'appreciation' (the emotional kind) after so many years of corporate brainwashing).

All in all, it went well. She was obviously upset and, much to my astonishment, she almost cried after she told me. This made me start to choke up a little, although I kept my emotions in check and didn't humiliate myself.

I did not expect this reaction from my über-professional boss. She's young though, and this may well have been her first layoff too. To make it easier on her, I told her that I appreciated that she told me early. I also reminded her that I was young and resilient, and while being laid-off is an inconvenience, it certainly is not a life-shattering event for me.

She told me that the afternoon meeting was being held to notify the rest of the employees about the layoffs. I asked if it was necessary that I attend, and she told me I was under no obligation. Always on the lookout for a day off, I told her I was feeling a little shell-shocked and asked her if I could call in sick for the day. She was more than happy to accommodate.

So I'm home, and I'm going to try to have a little fun today.

I've been meaning to go to the zoo for awhile. It might be a good reminder of what my job was actually like, before I get too sentimental about losing it.

[mack]

Centralized. So that's what they're calling it these days.
Yeah.

Around here (pharmaceuticals) that meant the DBAs got let go, and everything now gets routed through a central tracking system. The requests then get triaged and farmed out to mostly the same DBAs that were layed off, but now they're working for the couple of preferred consulting firms we use. The system had serious growing pains at first but now it works pretty well. Maybe your company's doing something similar and there's a consulting firm you can work for?

It's good you got some breathing room anyway.

[Phantom Dennis]

I was thinking: if I take the warehouse position, I'd be giving up the severance pay, which amounts to about 3 month's salary (in warehouse dollars). But if I get a job elsewhere, I'll still get the severance pay, along with my new paycheck. So I have a bit of a disincentive to stay at the company.

Besides, the company has taken on a distinctive "sinking ship" feel in the last six months. It's probably going to sink in a year or so, so why exactly should I stay unless I have no other choice?

This is the first real company I've worked for (at least in a white-collar, office environment), and I have a feeling that better companies exist -- with better policies and more friendly work environments (and hopefully, a lower manager-to-employee ratio. Did I mention that none of the layoffs were in management?)

I did end up going to the zoo with my mom today. It was an enjoyable diversion.

One of the polar bears made me a little sad -- I think he was stir-crazy. He would swim on his back toward the wall of his tank, turn around, kick off, swim on his belly toward the shore, climb part of the way out of the water, bob his head exactly three times, slide back into the water, and swim back toward the wall again. He repeated this exact ritual about 30 times while I watched, and something about the repetition and the ritualistic head-bobs reminded me of an obsessive-compulsive.

So I tried to think of how lousy my job was, and how this poor insane bear was unintentionally reenacting my workday -- repeating the same boring motions over and over again, five days a week, with very little variation, and very little enthusiasm. The metaphor didn't really strike a chord though. My job wasn't that terrible. And I'll soon escape my cage, whereas the polar bear will remain trapped the rest of his natural life, slowly going more and more insane. So the bear gets my sympathy vote.

I guess all jobs are repetitive to some extent, but I'm hopeful that my next gig will be little more interesting and emotionally fulfilling.

To my old company: good riddance. You had over two years to see what a smart and talented guy I was, but you used me like a cheap whore and tossed me out with the garbage. It's your loss, not mine. Not even close. I'll be successful someday, and I'll make a genuine contribution to my employer. You'll be bankrupt and forgotten, and people will wipe their asses with your stock certificates. I only feel bad about all the good people you'll drag down with you.

[gardentraveler]

The job with the 50% pay cut works only to the company's advantage; you need to worry about what's to your advantage. (Sounds like you've figured that out, but just in case....) The severance gives you a bit of a cushion while you're finding something you like. If you're working in the warehouse, you don't have the time to be looking for something better.... While many jobs are repetitive, many aren't - this is your chance to find one of those....! Sounds like the whole thing went much better than you feared. Good luck!

GT

[Nava]

NEVER EVER sign the termination papers right away. Standard operating procedure is to shock terminees, and get them to sign. You can almost always get a better deal by stalling for a day or week. "I need to talk to my manager first" or "I need to talk to my lawyer about my contract"


Agreed, make sure you understand all the terms, speak with Personnel about any paperwork you can/must do regarding unemployment benefits, etc. In my last US job, people who had been fired or left "without malice" still had medical benefits for a while. You can probably roll your 401K over into a different plan or leave it frozen until you get your next job, too.



My bro got fired by the first time this year, he was the treasurer for a largish company here in Spain; the partner who used to be his manager was on extended medical leave and the one who took over from her didn't like my brother's attitude (too plain-spoken). Reactions bro got:
* You lousy fuck! How did you manage? I've been threatened three times a month for five years and they never fire me! (from coworkers)
* Do they know what they're doing? (from coworkers, customers and bank people; answer is "no")
* Been in business with that louse for twenty years and the only reason I still work with him is that I only speak to his assface once a year. You've got my number if you need references (another one of the partners)

Bro's been unemployed a total of 40 days; his new job is better (administrative manager), the salary is better (starting salary matches his old salary and his contract includes the specific rises he'll get if he's in the job come January and come next September), the company is much more serious and management is professional. I hope you will soon be able to say something like that.

(I was unemployed longer but I'm a lot less employable than bro, and the job I finally got is pretty much what I would have asked Santa for)

[DaddyTimesTwo]

Well, it turns out I get almost 4 weeks of extra time off. Just before lunch on Tuesday I get offered the choice to go home, well, for good. So I did. Same severance package as before, just with almost 4 extra weeks tacked on, as long as I am "on call". So, right now, along with being a little tipsy, I am unemployed, but I am looking.

I have enought severance to take me into next year, my wife is also in the job market, so I think we will come out of this debt free, with money in the bank. At least, I freakin' hope so.