The mysterious popularity of baseball.

[mangeorge]

Finally.
I was listening to some fans talk about baseball the other day, and BOOM!, an epiphany smacked me in my consciousness.
I've always liked the game a little. Watching kids play. Playing an informal game myself with some friends. But the great popularity of professional baseball has always escaped me. I now know the reason for it.
Fans are not goal oriented. Not primarily. Sure, they want their team to win, but that's not really what it's all about. They want something to talk about with their buddies. There's a sense of comradarie in fandom that's hard for men to get any other way, and there are so many games that they have a lot to talk about.
Here's a sample discussion between me and a fan.
Me: Mornin', Bob. How's it goin'?
Fan (Bob): Hey, George. How 'bout them A's?
Me: Huh?
Fan: UM, er, well, See ya later, dude. Have a good one.
Me: See ya Bob. Take it easy.
Fan: I'll take it any way I can get it. (Wink wink. Grin.)
Me: All right, Bob. (Grinning back.)
:D
Peace,
mangeorge (Kinda slow on the uptake.)

[Frannie]

Hmmmmmmm

I think it has something to do with its "slow" pace (as compared to, let's say, football. Before I understood it, I found it "boring." OK, so I don't understand it all just yet, but I do love to say, "Hey, how 'bout those Indians?"

Oh, and it's fun to do one's nails while watching a game.

[Doug Bowe]

In Baseball the ball is in possession of the defense!

I never thought about it until the documentary on it...
If someone bats .300 they are supposed to be GREAT!
At the same time, it means they strike out 7 out of 10 times.
Baseball isn't about winning. It's about losing graciously.

[Frannie]

Oops, I forgot! Cool sig, btw.

[Bluepony]

Originally posted by Doug Bowe
In Baseball the ball is in possession of the defense!

I never thought about it until the documentary on it...
If someone bats .300 they are supposed to be GREAT!
At the same time, it means they strike out 7 out of 10 times.
Baseball isn't about winning. It's about losing graciously.


You don't have to strike out all those seven times.

-You might get thrown out at first, allowing the runner to score from third.

-A deep fly to the outfield allows runners to score or advance to scoring position.

Your individual statistical failure still contributes to the team's effort and victory. That is one of the coolest things about baseball.

[SPOOFE]

They want something to talk about with their buddies. There's a sense of comradarie in fandom that's hard for men to get any other way, and there are so many games that they have a lot to talk about.

So Baseball's popular because it's popular? That's one helluva paradox you got their, Mangeorge.

Stop it, you're making my head hurt :D

[capacitor]

In baseball the object is to go home. We all want to go home, especially after watching a baseball game starting at 11 pm.

[mangeorge]

SPOOFE Bo Diddly offered;
So Baseball's popular because it's popular?
-----------------------------
No, SPOOFE, that's not what I said.
Well, maybe that is what I said. But it's not what I meant. :)
The object of baseball is simplicity itself.
You hit a ball with a stick, then run as far toward home as you can before somebody either touches you with it or grabs it outta the air. That's about it.
The essence of baseball is much more. It's the endless discussion of all the foofera involved in attaining that goal.
BTW; EVERYTHING belongs to the defense. Except maybe the batters helmet.
Peace,
mangeorge ('smatter with the bolding feature?)

[GuanoLad]

Sport has never interested me. Team sports especially, in any capacity.

It appears to me to be a bunch of people running after a ball. I think every single team sport involves ball-chasing in some way. This, in itself, is to me uninteresting.

Then there's the local team support. We all like to hear of 'our team' defeating 'those other guys'. But what makes that absurd is what was originally 'pitching the best of our local boys against the best of their local boys to see who are the better team' has turned into 'who can offer the most money to entice the best players in the world to be on our team'. So it misses the whole point of 'local' teams.

And then there's all the stuff that fans love to talk about. Stats, scores, players, plays, games, controversies, etc... and though the subject matter doesn't interest me, I can at least see what the attraction is of that. Because though I'd be referring to a totally different subject (Star Wars, Disney animation, 3D Graphics) I love to talk shop as much as the next guy.

So I reckon mangeorge is exactly right.

[needspeed]

Baseball was tailored for the Yogi Berras of the world. That is, would-be philosophers who spend way too much time in the hot summer sun. That, to me, is its quintessence. No other sport could have/ever will produce a Yogi Berra:

"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there."

"If the people don't want to come out to the ballpark, nobody's going to stop 'em."

zippy
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/brainingdamage

[iampunha]

I think part of the reason I like baseball is that it's something I can share with a lot of people. In that same sense, I enjoy trivia and the SDMB and other sports . . . I would not enjoy any of these nearly as much if I were doing them alone . . . it's like you're there to watch something that will never happen again. Whether that event is mundane or not is the opinion of its spectators. I, personally, have never been bored from watching baseball.
As for this business of hitting .300 and striking out 7 times out of ten . . . such a person would be in the minor leagues at best. Out of those 7 outs, maybe one is a grounder to third that gets a runner over. Maybe one is a flyball that gets a runner to third or home.

[JosephFinn]

Let's clear up the 7 out of 10 quote right now. From the introduction to "Baseball," the companion to the Ken Burns documentary:

"And yet the men who fail seven times out fo ten are considered the game's greatest heroes."

-"Baseball," Knopf, 1994

[Frannie]

"In our sun-down perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing "base", a certain game of "ball"....Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms....the game of ball is glorious".
(Walt Whitman 1846)

:)

[Baglady]

Doug Bowe explained, "I never thought about it until the documentary on it... If someone bats .300 they are supposed to be GREAT! At the same time, it means they strike out 7 out of 10 times. Baseball isn't about winning. It's about losing graciously."

To which Bluepony noted: "You don't have to strike out all those seven times. [....]
-A deep fly to the outfield allows runners to score or advance to scoring position."

Bluepony, I know what you mean, but technically a sac fly is not counted against your batting average.

So... how about them A's? [don't ask; they lost to the White Sox 13 to 0 today.]

[lovingthepain]

I'm replying in regards of Bluepony's post. If you're thrown out at first and the runner scores (by bunt or just a soft hit), or you hit a deep fly to the outfield and the runner on third scores-it's a sacrifice, and it doesn't count against your average. So your statistics don't go down, it was like the at bat didn't even count (the at bat also doesn't count if you get a base on balls or a HBP). That's the beauty of baseball, it's fair as well as fun to play. You can aid the runner in scoring, get on base yourself and your average is kicked up a few points (maybe, but it depends on how any at bats you've already had), or you may not get on base, all the same your average isn't lowered. Now isn't that wonderful?

[Geek Mecha]

::ahem::


It is no mystery to me.


:D


Okay, just wanted to say that. Carry on!

[DRY]

Originally posted by lovingthepain
I'm replying in regards of Bluepony's post. If you're thrown out at first and the runner scores (by bunt or just a soft hit), or you hit a deep fly to the outfield and the runner on third scores-it's a sacrifice, and it doesn't count against your average.

Not quite correct.

If you hit a deep fly to the infield, that's a sacrifice fly. If you bunt to try to "squeeze" the runner home, and you do so successfully, you'll get credited with a sacrifice.

HOWEVER, merely hitting a ground ball to an infielder which scores a runner from third is NOT a sacrifice (though it is an RBI) and it does count as a time at bat (against your average).

[mangeorge]

but I do love to hear fans talk about it. ;)
Peace,
mangeorge

[lovingthepain]

Well, DRY, I don't know about that. I'll have to check with a few friends tomorrow. Because I do believe, either with a bunt or just a hit, it is still a sacrfice, and it doesn't affect your average.

[Troy McClure SF]

Well, the baseball field, along with its centerpiece, the diamond is a whole lot more beautiful than a lawn with a bunch of white lines on it.

The players must be well-rounded athletes. If you play defense, you play offense too. None of this in-for-one-play crap.

Anyway, it's too late for my brain to work... but, I must say enthusiastically...

How bout them Giants?!

[Bluepony]

:::blushing:::

he he he...forgot that sac fly is not counted towards AB! Thanks Baglady for the assist. Chicks that know baseball, these are God's special creatures. :D

Go Braves!!

Oh yeah, anyone, what's up with the Canseco trade to the Yanks? How many DHs and outfielders do they really need?

[lovingthepain]

I think Canseco is a little bit over the hill. But look at those pythons, he can still crush that ball. Personally though, I don't think the Yankees need Jose Canseco.

[lovingthepain]

This is sort of an extension to my reply about a being thrown out at first when the run scores. I gave it a tad more consideration and I still stand with my decision. Has anyone ever heard of a swinging bunt? Well, that's when the batter hits a little dribbler to 2nd or short (but I guess it really doesn't matter what fielder). As long as the run scores it is still a sacrifice. Just like if there's a runner on 2nd and the ball is hit to, say, the 2nd baseman and he can't make the play at 3rd to get the runner going there and just makes a simple throw to first, it's a sacrifice and doesn't count against the batter's average. However, I think, if the runner is on 1st and the ball is hit to the 2nd baseman (again) and he can't make a throw to 2nd and goes to 1st, thus the batter being thrown out at 1st and the runner advances to 2nd. But this isn't a sacrifice because he's out on a fielder's choice. This isn't a sacrifice because the runner had no choice, he had to go to 2nd. But this differs if the ball is bunted with a man on 1st. Say the batter bunts and the man on 1st successfully makes it to 2nd and the batter gets thrown out, it's a sacrifice and a fielder's choice I think, nevertheless it doesn't count against his average. Gosh baseball's confusing, I love it.

[Montfort]

Canseco wasn't "traded" to the Yankees, they claimed him off waivers.

Why? To prevent other teams (Toronto, Boston, Chicago W.S., etc.) from claiming him later in the season.* Yankees GM Brian Cashman's said that he had no idea that Tampa let him go, and that no one else wanted him.

In other words, he bluffed, and was called on it. And now the Yankees are stuck with him and his salary.

* don't ask me to explain this. I know a lot about baseball, but waiver claims like this just don't make sense. Poke around espn.com/baseball to get a better explanation.

Oh, and the OP: Baseball's popular because of its mathematical precision. Nomar Garciappara might be batting .385 now, but no baseball fan's going to round that to .390, or even, .400. We, as fans, revel in statistics, and the fact that the field is very mathemtical (90 feet, 60 ft. 6 inches, etc.) and full of straight lines adds to the beauty.

And, a baseball field, with grass, is a beautiful thing to look at.

[ChiefScott]

...the only game in which you can be perfect.

...one against nine.

...the only (major) sport not played against the clock.

...a hot dog and Coke in the summer sun sitting with Dad in the left field bleachers.

...the only game with an infinite playing field (alright, one quarter of the globe until the foul lines merge again, or half the globe if you continue them to their beginning points).

...ground rule doubles and double plays.

...listening to Harry Kalas and Ritchie Ashburn on a transistor radio beneath your covers during a West Coast swing.

...chewing gum and cards.

...spitting.

...spikes.

...home stands.

...crowdin' the plate, huggin' the bag and toein' the rubber.

...a lucky fan catching a foul ball.

...the smell of cut grass and leather.

...quirky ball parks.

...records.

...horsehide and lathed ash.

...my childhood.

[Ruffian]

The other week, I went to a minor league game with some friends. It was great! We ate fresh popcorn and juicy hotdogs, won prizes with raffle tickets, watched some girls do a few dances, laughed at the antics of the mascots, watched as fans were pulled out onto the field a few times to try to win $1000 in various silly--but entertaining--games...and in the midst of all this, a baseball game broke out!

I think we won, too.

[Crunchy Frog]

I think ChiefSCott has said it best so far. You aren't going to find one thing that makes baseball popular, it means something different to every fan. Asking a person why they like baseball is the same as asking why a person likes Chinese food better than Italian food - they just do and trying to analyze it is futile, you'll never come up with an answer.

You can simplify the sport and say it's a guy hitting a ball with a stick and then people chase it, but you can simplify any sport like that. Football is a bunch of guys beating each other up for a ball that's not even round. soccer is a bunch of guys just kicking a ball around. You can simplfy anything to make it sound stupid and pointless, but a real fan can tell you it's really much more complex than that. If you don't see the attraction, then you don't see it. People who do see the attraction have difficulty explaining it because it just is. Imagine you see a beautiful woman and you point her out to your buddy. You think she's gorgeous, he doesn't see it. How do you explain it to him?

As someone who used to play the game I can tell you it's much more complex than hitting a ball with a stick. There's strategy involved: do you bunt, hit and run, try to steal, pinch hit, walk the batter, etc? There's the feel of the bat in your hands when you connect solidly with a fstball and feel the impact through your body and you watch the ball fly. There's the adrenaline rush of trying to steal a base, knowing you only have a couple seconds to get there before the catcher tries to throw you out. There's the feel of the dirt in your face after making a great diving catch.

If you haven't experienced it, it is difficult to explain the attraction, and even more difficult to explain why you like it.

[DRY]

Originally posted by lovingthepain
This is sort of an extension to my reply about a being thrown out at first when the run scores. I gave it a tad more consideration and I still stand with my decision. Has anyone ever heard of a swinging bunt? Well, that's when the batter hits a little dribbler to 2nd or short (but I guess it really doesn't matter what fielder). As long as the run scores it is still a sacrifice. Just like if there's a runner on 2nd and the ball is hit to, say, the 2nd baseman and he can't make the play at 3rd to get the runner going there and just makes a simple throw to first, it's a sacrifice and doesn't count against the batter's average.


Sorry, but this isn't correct.

Actually, in the example you mention with respect to the swinging bunt, it might indeed be scored a sacrifice. But if the ball isn't bunted, it isn't counted as a sacrifice (with the exception of a sacrifice fly).

The following is from the official rules of major league baseball, found on this site:

http://www.majorleaguebaseball.com/u/baseball/mlbcom/headquarters


sacrifices

10.09 (a) Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, the batter advances one or more runners with a bunt and is put out at first base, or would have been put out except for a fielding error.
(b) Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, the fielders handle a bunted ball without error in an unsuccessful attempt to put out a preceding runner advancing one base. EXCEPTION: When an attempt to turn a bunt into a putout of a preceding runner fails, and in the scorer's judgment perfect play would not have put out the batter at first base, the batter shall be credited with a one base hit and not a sacrifice.
(c) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when any runner is put out attempting to advance one base on a bunt. Charge the batter with a time at bat.
(d) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when, in the judgment of the scorer, the batter is bunting primarily for a base hit and not for the purpose of advancing a runner or runners. Charge the batter with a time at bat.
NOTE: In applying the above rule, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.
(e) Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a fly ball or a line drive handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield which
(1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch, or
(2) is dropped, and a runner scores, if in the scorer's judgment the runner could have scored after the catch had the fly been caught.
NOTE: Score a sacrifice fly in accordance with 10.09 (e) (2) even though another runner is forced out by reason of the batter becoming a runner.


This is the entire section on a sacrifices. There is NO provision for being credited with a sacrifice when you move the runner up on a non bunted ground ball. Note that in the above section, a sacrifice is either a sacrifice fly or a bunted ball.

Also, if you hit into a double play which results in a runner scoring, you don't even get an RBI.

This is not to say that a batter who hits a groundout "moving runners over" or driving in a runner isn't accomplishing something positive. He just doesn't get credited with a sacrifice, and is charged with a time at bat, unless he bunted.


However, I think, if the runner is on 1st and the ball is hit to the 2nd baseman (again) and he can't make a throw to 2nd and goes to 1st, thus the batter being thrown out at 1st and the runner advances to 2nd. But this isn't a sacrifice because he's out on a fielder's choice. This isn't a sacrifice because the runner had no choice, he had to go to 2nd. But this differs if the ball is bunted with a man on 1st. Say the batter bunts and the man on 1st successfully makes it to 2nd and the batter gets thrown out, it's a sacrifice and a fielder's choice I think, nevertheless it doesn't count against his average. Gosh baseball's confusing, I love it.


Here, you're right. But the key is, the ball has to be BUNTED to get credit for the sacrifice.

[DRY]

Originally posted by Ruffian
The other week, I went to a minor league game with some friends. It was great! We ate fresh popcorn and juicy hotdogs, won prizes with raffle tickets, watched some girls do a few dances, laughed at the antics of the mascots, watched as fans were pulled out onto the field a few times to try to win $1000 in various silly--but entertaining--games...and in the midst of all this, a baseball game broke out!

I think we won, too.

Ruffian, where did you go? Just curious, and, for the record, I'm guessing Rancho Cucamonga or San Bernadino.

Minor league baseball is a whole lot of fun, especially if you don't mind the fact that all the players aren't "household names". The stadium and setting allows for greater intimacy, the regular fans are often at least as knowledgeable about the game and players (if not more so), you actually have a chance to win these raffles (since there are about 5,000 people instead of 30,000), if you're the type to heckle (I'm not), there's a far better chance that a player or coach will actually hear you. Finally, it's a hell of a lot cheaper.

Some people may be put off by the campy attitude, and a downside is that it must suck to have your good players called up to a higher classification. But I love minor league baseball: when I'm in Vegas, I make a point of seeing the Las Vegas Stars.

One final point: it's a hell of a kick to see a player make it big and be able to tell your friends that you first saw him in the minors.