Which do you think are the ten best colleges and universities in the world?

[GrahamWellington]

Kind of a fun question. I have no idea but would be curious to know what you people think.

[QuizCustodet]

Kind of a fun question. I have no idea but would be curious to know what you people think.

Your question is, with respect, ill-posed. Are you interested in teaching excellence, research excellence, or both? At graduate, or undergraduate level? For what subject, or subjects? As an example, in my own field of ultra-cold gases, the University of Colorado at Boulder (via its association with NIST, JILA) is probably the best place for graduate work. I don't think that Boulder would make it into the top five for general prestige.

Indeed, the most basic comparison would be on quality of undergraduate education, which would be so hard to quantify as to be impossible. It'll not only depend on subject, but also on individual students and how they learn.

With all that said, I think (though I might be wrong - please correct me if so!) that you're primarily interested in prestige. I'm not going to attempt a ranking, but I think the top ten would include:

Oxford, Cambridge, the Ecole Normale Superieure in Paris, Stanford, Harvard, Caltech, MIT.

If you're only considering sciences, Imperial College in London, Rensslaer Polytechnic Institute and Urbana-Champaign probably get on the list.

[FlyingRamenMonster]

None where I'm from, that's for sure.

[Sierra Indigo]

None where I'm from, that's for sure.

Do they have schools in Perth? I thought y'all were just raised with the dogs in the yard ;) :D :D

[Phlosphr]

Based on well rounded academia and research etc...etc... I'd say:

Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Bowdoin
MIT
CIT
Oxford

[Shagnasty]

I am trying not to be biased but I still think it would be mostly American universities in the Top 10. They have so much money and prestige that they can buy almost anyone or anything in the world. I am sure that Harvard has offered to charter a med-flight with hookers for Steven Hawking at some point. They didn't suceed with him but many of absolute top academics do move to the U.S. from their homeland.

When I was in France last year, I read a series of articles in an English speaking paper about how top British Universities were going down the tubes. It said that laws that required parity in funding for all British universities regardless of quality and prestige have had a really bad effect on the top ones like Oxford and Cambridge.

My Top 10 Would Be:
1) Harvard (tons of money and prestige)
2) Princeton
3) Yale
4) Oxford
5) MIT
6) CalTech
7) Cambridge
8) Stanford
9) Ecole Normale Superieure
10) Cornell

[gaucho]

How about Heidelberg? Leiden? Where do they fall in the grand scheme?

[Dewey Finn]

If you're only considering sciences, Imperial College in London, Rensslaer Polytechnic Institute and Urbana-Champaign probably get on the list.
I went to RPI, and I'm flattered that you included it, but I wouldn't consider it among the top ten in the world. Many of us went there because we didn't get into MIT. On the other hand, supposedly Indian students who can't get into one of the Indian Institute of Technology campuses are reduced to attending a lesser school, like MIT or Caltech.

[Shagnasty]

This is a question as much as a comment. I get the feeling that Europeans see universities as a normal extension of their whole school life. Their primary? schooling is fairly difficult and comprehensive and they can extend that same path into a university. There is nothing that special about going to university.

In the U.S., public schools tend to be pretty crappy all the way through high school. That are some great public and private high schools but they aren't the norm. Instead, students get a huge shock by the increase in difficulty between high school and college. It is like we let students sail along and then we take the ones that make it into a good college and put them through boot camp.

That is the way it was for me when I entered Tulane. However, I was already accustomed to the work load when I went to grad school at Dartmouth.

I think we view our top colleges like major league sports teams. The best fight to make it into them and they are expected to perform once they get there. Once the best get there, the resources and talent available are unbelievable. That model makes are universities the best in the world.

[drm]

According to this (http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm) list the top ten are...

1 Harvard
2 Cambridge
3 Stanford Univ
4 California - Berkeley
5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT)
6 California Inst Tech
7 Columbia
8 Princeton
9 University of Chicago
10 Oxford

[Martin Hyde]

To me it all depends on what you're looking for. I think it's hard to impossible to simply rank colleges like this.

[guizot]

To me it all depends on what you're looking for. I think it's hard to impossible to simply rank colleges like this.Yeah, usually the "official" rankings are looking for things that are different from what the students are looking for. It completely depends on whose perspective you take.

[fusoya]

I went to RPI, and I'm flattered that you included it, but I wouldn't consider it among the top ten in the world. Many of us went there because we didn't get into MIT. On the other hand, supposedly Indian students who can't get into one of the Indian Institute of Technology campuses are reduced to attending a lesser school, like MIT or Caltech.

Besides, WPI kicks RPI's ass.

[bouv]

Besides, WPI kicks RPI's ass.

Oh, it is ON now, sucka!

[Dewey Finn]

Besides, WPI kicks RPI's ass.
Hell, no. WPI is one step above a fog-the-mirror school.

[Shagnasty]

Besides, WPI kicks RPI's ass.

What, in RPG's?

[mhendo]

To me it all depends on what you're looking for. I think it's hard to impossible to simply rank colleges like this.Completely agree.

[Wolfian]

Besides, WPI kicks RPI's ass.
DORK FIGHT!!!

[GrahamWellington]

Sorry for not replying sooner...ah...I was just asking which are the best in a general all-around sort of way. I kinda doubt anyone can really put their finger on it unless they've gone to lots of great schools.

One poster mentioned IIT being way better than Cal Tech and MIT, saying the rejects go to those schools if they can't get in. No doubt IIT has some very, very bright students, but I'd have to bet that the school doesn't come close to material and financial resources. But then what the hay do I know about anything.:-)

[Shagnasty]

One poster mentioned IIT being way better than Cal Tech and MIT, saying the rejects go to those schools if they can't get in. No doubt IIT has some very, very bright students, but I'd have to bet that the school doesn't come close to material and financial resources. But then what the hay do I know about anything.:-)

I was wondering about that too. I don't know anything about Indian universities but I cannot see how they could exceed CalTech and MIT in their areas of specialty. CalTech and MIT accept students at the very far end of the bell curve. There simply isn't much more room for another school to exceed them in that way. They also have massive amounts of money that I seriously doubt an Indian school has. CalTech and MIT can generally have their pick of any outstanding researchers in the world including Indians. It generally doesn't work the other way around. Finally, I read about amazing discoveries made at CalTech, MIT, and other American schools and I hardly ever hear about it for Indian schools. Even if the media was biased on day-to-day news, the so-called great Indian schools should have a mention in all kinds of technology being developed and they usually don't.

[GrahamWellington]

They'll make a believer out of me if and when they come up with a space program that's better than ours. And that goes for all non-US universities.

[Dewey Finn]

One poster mentioned IIT being way better than Cal Tech and MIT, saying the rejects go to those schools if they can't get in. No doubt IIT has some very, very bright students, but I'd have to bet that the school doesn't come close to material and financial resources. But then what the hay do I know about anything.:-)

The point was the IIT may be more selective than US schools, in terms of percentage of applicants accepted. Again, it comes down to how you're defining the best school.

[don't ask]

Here (http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm) is an attempt at ranking the top 500 universities.

[gouda]

The point was the IIT may be more selective than US schools, in terms of percentage of applicants accepted. Bingo. I don't have a cite, but I remember reading a recent newspaper report stating that the acceptance rate into IITs is about 2%. And given the huge disparity between applicants and available seats, less than half of those accepted get into their first choice of department. BTW, the same article mentioned that the IITs don't have the lowest rate of acceptance in the world. Unfortunately, I don't remember which institute bears that particular honour.

In terms of resources, material and financial, none of the IITs come close to what the top 20 US engineering colleges have to offer. I really don't see too many students rejecting acceptance letters from an MIT or CalTech in favour of an IIT.

Financing of educational institutions is a pricky issue in India, espcially when it concerns the IITs and IIMs. A previous government enacted a law (without any opposition) stating that any financial endowments to Indian universities need to be routed through a special government agency set up for that purpose, and that the agency would get to decide on how that money got spent. Way to attract more money, fellas :rolleyes:

[interface2x]

According to this (http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005TOP500list.htm) list the top ten are...

1 Harvard


That's funny. They misspelled Northern Illinois University.


What?

[bouv]

DORK FIGHT!!!

Hey, we're not dorks! We're nerds and geeks.


OK, some of us are dorks, but mostly we're nerds and geeks.

[Madd Maxx]

#39 baby! Woohoo! Woot! Pwned!!!111!!!onehundredeleven!!!

[GrahamWellington]

The point was the IIT may be more selective than US schools, in terms of percentage of applicants accepted. Again, it comes down to how you're defining the best school.

Okay. I'll define the "best school" as one that has great resources, professors, and puts out a high number of grads (to impact the world); therefore, the University of Michigan takes the honor.

[Zoe]

don't ask: Here is an attempt at ranking the top 500 universities.

I'm really surprised to see how far Brown has fallen (ranked in the 80's). And Dartmouth was not in the top 100. What happened?

[Dewey Finn]

I wouldn't take that list too seriously. Rutgers is ranked higher than Carnegie-Mellon, Purdue and Dartmouth. For most people I knew in college, Rutgers was a safety school.

[mhendo]

I wouldn't take that list too seriously. Rutgers is ranked higher than Carnegie-Mellon, Purdue and Dartmouth. For most people I knew in college, Rutgers was a safety school.Well, as i've already made clear, i don't take lists like that too seriously either.

But that fact that Rutgers was a "safety school" for some people that you knew is probably just as much a reflection of those people's attitudes as it is of the quality of education at Rutgers. It's certainly no more reliable a guide to Rutgers than those lists are.

[Obsidian]

Well, as i've already made clear, i don't take lists like that too seriously either.

But that fact that Rutgers was a "safety school" for some people that you knew is probably just as much a reflection of those people's attitudes as it is of the quality of education at Rutgers. It's certainly no more reliable a guide to Rutgers than those lists are.

Odd thing I learned about RU after I moved to California. It's a safety school if you're from Jersey. . . and you're willing to attend one of the lesser colleges within the university (Rutgers College is surprisingly picky). I keep meeting people out here that are like, "Hey, you went to Rutgers, that's a good school."

I realized it is if you make it. You can drink your way through rocks for jocks, or you can be taught by someone who knew Harry Truman and delve into one of the best libraries region.

[mhendo]

I realized it is if you make it. You can drink your way through rocks for jocks, or you can be taught by someone who knew Harry Truman and delve into one of the best libraries region.You could say the same thing about most of the universities and colleges on the list, including some in the top ten. University, as a general rule, is what you make it, in my opinion.

I'm a grad student at a school ranked in the top 20 on the worldwide list provided by don't ask in post 23. There are undergrads at this place who make full use of all the incredible intellectual and educational resources available to them, while there are others who coast through and, as far as their actual education goes, could have saved their parents over 100 grand by going to a much cheaper institution. And even places like Harvard suffer from the unfortunate tendency towards grade inflation, with the result that a relatively mediocre performance can still often receive a grade of "B."

Also, as others have pointed out, the overall ranking of a university often means almost nothing in terms of particular subject areas. A school can have a world-class reputation overall, but that's not much use to you if you want to study linguistics and the Linguistics Department of that particular university is not especially good. My grad school's worldwide reputation as a medical institution is not much use to me as a student of US history.

Hell, even within subjects it's necessary to find out where a particular institution's strengths and weaknesses are. A history department that does not make an appearance when the list of Top 20 history departments in the United States is compiled might still be the perfect place for a student looking to study a particular branch of history, or work with a particular faculty member. Specialization, both within institutions and within individual schools and departments, means that anyone seeking to attend one of these places should look further than the institution's overall ranking.

Also, some of the very things that earn certain universities high rankings on these lists can actually result in a reduction in the quality of education for a potential student. For example, i've known undergrads who have been students at very prestigious institutions, but who barely ever got to meet one-on-one with the brilliant faculty members, and spent most of their time interacting with inexperienced grad student TAs. I've known grad students who went to places like Columbia, but who barely got to speak with their advisers, who were always busy at conferences or doing research or whatever.

I'm not saying that the schools at the top of these lists are bad places. That would clearly be absurd. At a certain level, there's a reason that certain institutions are consistently ranked near the top. I guess, for me, the biggest issue is not whether the top schools are any good (clearly they are), but whether the lower-ranked schools are as far behind as these lists can make them appear. Another problem is the issue of the self-fulfilling prophecy, where an institution's reputation can be just as important a factor in its perceived quality as the actual level of academic excellence.

[mhendo]

It's a safety school if you're from Jersey. . . and you're willing to attend one of the lesser colleges within the university (Rutgers College is surprisingly picky). I keep meeting people out here that are like, "Hey, you went to Rutgers, that's a good school." Another point about Rutgers is that, as you say, it's pretty selective. For many New Jersey students, Rutgers is a fantastic option, and for many more, it's an unattainable fantasy.

I'm willing to bet that Rutgers is a "safety school" largely for folks who are incredibly smart and have their choice of institutions, and/or people whose parents can afford to fork out $30K+ a year for a prestigious private university.

Also, the last time i read an article on this particular issue (a few years back), New Jersey had fewer colleges and universities per head of population than any other state. It's a very populous state without a whole lot of large, four-year institutions. If i remember correctly, the piece that i read also said that Jersey sends more college students out of state than any other state. Not sure if this is still true.

My own grad school, here in Baltimore, is filled with undergrads from New Jersey. Hell, i've even heard the place referred to as the University of New Jersey at Baltimore. :)

[JpnDude]

According to the list on dont ask's link, the University of California system seems to have a very good representation with 4 schools in the top 20. Cal-Berkeley (GO BEARS!) is listed at #4. Of the schools in the Top 10, is that the only public university?

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

To some extent, breadth works against schools like Brown and Dartmouth (or, that is, lack of breadth). Those schools have excellent programs, but unlike some of the large research universities on the list, they don't have programs in nearly every field. That doesn't compromise their excellence in any way, but if you're tallying "Top Ten" programs or surveying experts in a wide variety of fields to report on reputation, smaller schools will naturally be disadvantaged.

[liberty3701]

Based on well rounded academia and research etc...etc... I'd say:

Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Bowdoin
MIT
CIT
Oxford
Bowdoin but no Pomona, eh?

Interesting ...

[mhendo]

According to the list on dont ask's link, the University of California system seems to have a very good representation with 4 schools in the top 20. Cal-Berkeley (GO BEARS!) is listed at #4. Of the schools in the Top 10, is that the only public university?No.

Cambridge and Oxford in England are public universities, in pretty much the same way as the term "public university" is understood in the United States. That is, they are self-governing and independent institutions, but get their funding largely from government funding and student fees. In the period 2000-2003, 61% of funding to UK universities and colleges came from the four main higher education funding bodies, each of which is funded by and responsible to parliament. The rest cames from non-government sources such as students fees, charitable and philanthropic donations, industry, etc., etc.

There are private and independent ionstitutions of higher learning in the UK, but these are not generally proper universities or four-year academic colleges. They tend to be vocational or technical institutions, generally outside the ambit of the public higher education system that dominates UK post-secondary education. A key difference between public universities in the US and the UK is that the former are largely funded and overseen at the state level, whereas this is done on a national level in the UK.

[mhendo]

Sorry, forgot to cite the source of my figures:

Check out this pdf document (http://www.hefce.ac.uk/pubs/hefce/2005/05_10/05_10.pdf) for an overview of the UK higher education system.

[mhendo]

Bowdoin but no Pomona, eh?

Interesting ...I'm a big fan of small, liberal-arts colleges. i think that they provide a fantastic education, and the faculty members are often excellent teachers and mentors.

But to assert, as Phlosphr has, that a liberal arts college like Bowdoin, with an enrolment of less than 2000 students and essentially no graduate and post-doctoral research, belongs in the top 10 "Based on well rounded academia and research," is patently ridiculous.

Bowdoin might offer the best undergraduate education in the known world, but it's not a research university, and really can't be compared at all with institutions like Harvard, MIT, Oxford, Cal-Berkeley, etc.

[VarlosZ]

Probably not exactly what the OP had in mind, but Julliard (http://www.juilliard.edu/) is apparently the toughest American school to get into, accepting only 8% of applicants.

[GrahamWellington]

I should have thought to mention in my first post that one can go to collegereviews.com and check out what students have to say about the shools they're attending. But I would guess that some of the comments are probably written by people pretending they're going there just so they can trash them.

[liberty3701]

I'm a big fan of small, liberal-arts colleges. i think that they provide a fantastic education, and the faculty members are often excellent teachers and mentors.

But to assert, as Phlosphr has, that a liberal arts college like Bowdoin, with an enrolment of less than 2000 students and essentially no graduate and post-doctoral research, belongs in the top 10 "Based on well rounded academia and research," is patently ridiculous.

Bowdoin might offer the best undergraduate education in the known world, but it's not a research university, and really can't be compared at all with institutions like Harvard, MIT, Oxford, Cal-Berkeley, etc.
That's not what I was saying at all. Pomona College is a great liberal arts school, as good as Bowdoin. Just curious that he chose Bowdoin over Pomona. And I think small schools can give a lot that those larger institutions can't.

[uglybeech]

Based on well rounded academia and research etc...etc... I'd say:

Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Dartmouth
Stanford
Bowdoin
MIT
CIT
Oxford

Bowdoin, but no Williams or Amherst?

[mhendo]

That's not what I was saying at all. Pomona College is a great liberal arts school, as good as Bowdoin. Just curious that he chose Bowdoin over Pomona. And I think small schools can give a lot that those larger institutions can't.Which is exactly the point i made.

I was merely noting that if you are going to rank colleges on a national or global scale by teaching and research, there's really no way that small liberal arts colleges can compete in the latter category.

[aktep]

1. USC
2. Texas
3. Virginia Tech
4. Florida State
5. Georgia
6. Ohio State
7. Alabama
8. Tennessee
9. Miami
10. California