I won't smoke a ham, but I'll smoke that Salem! Re Vegans who smoke cigarettes

[astro]

Lately my daughter is hanging out with some DDR fanatics who share their house with two Vegan girls who smoke like chimneys. Granted it's not ingesting meat, but (IMO) if you're going to go to the trouble of eschewing meat for health and (assumedly) philosophical reasons, it seems kind of pointless and vaguely hypocritical health-wise to then hammer your body by smoking.

Are smoking Vegans a rarity?

[Seven]

Almost all the vegans I know don't eat meat because of the whole killing animals thing - not because the body is a temple.

[roger thornhill]

Don't they ever stop to think of all the animals that are killed in order to bring their old Virginian to them in tip-top condition?

Typical! Absolutely bloody typical!

[Otto]

The smoking vegans I know all smoke those American Spirit cancer sticks. I guess they're organic or some shit. Yeah, because you wouldn't want any harmful chemicals getting on your tobacco, now would you?

[Scissorjack]

Cigarettes are a vegetable.

[neutron star]

The smoking vegans I know all smoke those American Spirit cancer sticks. I guess they're organic or some shit. Yeah, because you wouldn't want any harmful chemicals getting on your tobacco, now would you?

I'm smoking an American Spirit right now, though I'm far, far, far from being a vegan; God, I love steak and bacon. Only a couple of their more expensive tobacco products are organically grown. The others are simply free of the common chemical additives (e.g. burning agents) that other companies use. Clearly noted on every pack (and can and pouch, for RYOers like me) of American Spirit is the sentence, "No additives in our tobacco does NOT mean safer."

I smoke them not because I think that they are somehow than other brands, but because those additives constitute about 10% of each cigarette. Fuck that. If I'm paying through the nose for my carcinogen of choice, I want 100% tobacco. American Spirit offers that, and tastes better than any other cigarette I've ever smoked.

[WhyNot]

I don't understand the question, I guess. Why shouldn't vegans smoke? I mean, other than the reasons we all shouldn't smoke. What makes vegans any different? Are they putting sheep's blood in cigarettes now? They are, aren't they?! Bastards.

Yeah, most of the vegans I know smoke. Up until six months ago, most of the alternative, neo-hippie folks (not the same group, but there is a large overlap) I know smoked. Then we all started turning 30, and most of us are quitting or have quit recently.

[even sven]

Being vegan or vegetarian or whatever doesn't mean your ethics suddenly become perfectly consistant and up for public discussion. Unless they are annoyingly evangelical in their vegan-dom, it's not particularly clever to nitpick their personal decisions and perhaps their personal failings.

[Cliffy]

doesn't mean your ethics suddenly become ... up for public discussion.

Sure it does -- everybody's ethics are always up for discussion.

--Cliffy

[Speaker for the Dead]

Sure it does -- everybody's ethics are always up for discussion.

--Cliffy
I don't know, Cliffy. Your motives seem suspect. :dubious:

[Miller]

Every vegan I've ever met smoked.

Okay, so I've only ever met one vegan. So what? My data is still valid!

{Howyadoin, lezlers?}

[Jennyrosity]

I remember finding it ironic that a militant anti-capitalist should be photographed for a newspaper article smoking a cigarette. Um, you do realise you're supporting one of the biggest and baddest capitalist industries, right?

Yes, I know the person in question wasn't necessarily a vegan, and that no matter how anti-capitalist you are it's impossible to live in this world and not support capitalist businesses occasionally, even if only indirectly, but that seemed a particularly noticable oversight. Had she left the interview and gone straight to McDonald's I wouldn't have been too surprised.

[Kyla]

Being vegan or vegetarian or whatever doesn't mean your ethics suddenly become perfectly consistant and up for public discussion. Unless they are annoyingly evangelical in their vegan-dom, it's not particularly clever to nitpick their personal decisions and perhaps their personal failings.

Agreed. I'm the world's least militant vegetarian. I don't give a fuck what anyone else eats. And yet people quite often feel the need to bug me about whatever failings they think I may have because I don't eat meat. Very annoying.

Also kind of annoying when people find out I'm a vegetarian and go crazy the other way. I had a coworker who was concerned about my eating pretty much anything. Like, he'd fret when he saw me drinking a soda or eating a cookie. (This guy was weird in many ways, though, I guess I'm about the same age as his daughters and he seemed to think I was one of them. Creepy.)

OTOH, I once had dinner with a vegan and had a burger (this was years ago, before I was a vegetarian) and he made faces and snide remarks about my dinner. Recalling a conversation on veganism on the SDMB, I asked him if he ate honey. He said yes, and when I pointed out it was an animal product, he insisted that bees weren't animals, they're insects.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

The smoking vegans


Band name!

[vetbridge]

I remember finding it ironic that a militant anti-capitalist should be photographed for a newspaper article smoking a cigarette. Um, you do realise you're supporting one of the biggest and baddest capitalist industries, right?

You are assuming that they did not grow their own tobacco in the garden, dry it in the shed, cure it and then roll their own.

[Jennyrosity]

You are assuming that they did not grow their own tobacco in the garden, dry it in the shed, cure it and then roll their own.

No, I'm not. This was a regular, industrial made cigarette, that much was clear from the picture - you could almost, but not quite, make out the brand name near the filter.

I wouldn't have even reacted if it'd been a soggy-ended roll-up!

[whole bean]

Every vegan I've ever met smoked.

Okay, so I've only ever met one vegan. So what? My data is still valid!

{Howyadoin, lezlers?}

nitpick: if it's only one, it's datum

[vetbridge]

No, I'm not. This was a regular, industrial made cigarette, that much was clear from the picture - you could almost, but not quite, make out the brand name near the filter.

With the ZigZag rolling tube system it is possible to roll your own cigs that pass for the real McKoy. Just saying, devil's advocate and all. ;)

[Jennyrosity]

With the ZigZag rolling tube system it is possible to roll your own cigs that pass for the real McKoy. Just saying, devil's advocate and all. ;)


Was that a plug? ;)

Alright, it may not have been a manufactured cigarette, but I'd be willing to bet heavily that it was. Apart from anything else, I don't think we have the right climate for growing baccy in Britain.

We now return you to your regular scheduled discussion of The Smoking Vegans.

[Otto]

Was that a plug?
Naw, plugs are chewing tobacco.

[AThingWithFeathers]

OTOH, I once had dinner with a vegan and had a burger (this was years ago, before I was a vegetarian) and he made faces and snide remarks about my dinner. Recalling a conversation on veganism on the SDMB, I asked him if he ate honey. He said yes, and when I pointed out it was an animal product, he insisted that bees weren't animals, they're insects.
I have a friend who's a vegan, and I asked her this very same question. Her reasoning is that the bees aren't being harmed in the beekeeping environment, unlike how the cows in the milk industry are "bred for milking and cramped into stalls."

She also tried to give up cigarrettes for awhile, but that lasted a week. OTOH, she's the only vegan/vegetarian I know who smokes on a regular basis. Also, apparently American Spirits don't use animal testing (http://www.smokinganimals.com/aspirit.html). (Not an unbiased site by any means, but it is clearly run by vegetarian/anti-animal testing people.)

[dangermom]

Hey, anybody want to be fascinated by bees and honey? Read Robbing the bees (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743250214/qid=1129681100/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-7531102-0708661?v=glance&s=books)! I really enjoyed it (finished it yesterday), and learned a ton about bees.

[Beware of Doug]

I went to the University of Michigan ("The Harvard of the West, the Berkeley of the East") in the late '80s. We had amazingly large numbers of vegetarians who smoked, and didn't believe in bathing all that often either. You could tell them by the slight brown pallor over their skin and clothing before you got close enough to smell them.

[WhyNot]

You are assuming that they did not grow their own tobacco in the garden, dry it in the shed, cure it and then roll their own.
Isn't it illegal to grow your own tobacco? Something about the commerce clause? Or maybe licensure...

[saoirse]

Isn't it illegal to grow your own tobacco? Something about the commerce clause? Or maybe licensure...

No, tobacco isn't controolled the way, say peanuts are. You may grow tobacco if you like and try to sell it at auction. It's simply that the people who do this really know what they're doing. What you're smoking in a cigarette is as far removed from anything found in nature as a dachshund.

[astro]

I have a friend who's a vegan, and I asked her this very same question. Her reasoning is that the bees aren't being harmed in the beekeeping environment, unlike how the cows in the milk industry are "bred for milking and cramped into stalls."

She also tried to give up cigarettes for awhile, but that lasted a week. OTOH, she's the only vegan/vegetarian I know who smokes on a regular basis. Also, apparently American Spirits don't use animal testing (http://www.smokinganimals.com/aspirit.html). (Not an unbiased site by any means, but it is clearly run by vegetarian/anti-animal testing people.)


First-Ever"Cruelty-Free" Smokes Hailed by PETA (http://www.smokinganimals.com/aspirit.html)

A cruelty free...cigarette!

Yes, we stand proudly on moral principle in refusing to inflict the deadly compounds and gases that result from burning tobacco on the lungs of poor, helpless animals, so smoke American Spirits and be confident you've chosen the ethical smoke!

[ShibbOleth]

In all fairness to vegans, it's pretty damned hard to keep a ham lit.

[Stonebow]

Aside from any sort of coolness/trend factor that might be associated with smoking/going veggie, could the appetite suppression induced by smoking play a part?

[scout1222]

Stonebow, why would that matter? Vegans aren't by their nature any hungrier than other people.

I guess the real issue is WHY someone doesn't eat meat. If it's for health reasons, yeah, it doesn't make sense that they use tobacco. But if it's animal cruelty, there really is no logical disconnect here.

People don't always give up meat for the same reasons. Please keep that in mind!

[Stonebow]

Stonebow, why would that matter? Vegans aren't by their nature any hungrier than other people.

It matters as a means to regulate food cravings. Meat is tasty, and usually smells really good when cooked. If a committed vegan had to associate with meat-eaters, why not employ something to diminish the natural reaction to otherwise tasty food?

Also, don't underestimate the social aspect of this. Food sharing is a vital human interaction, one that many vegans (and veggies of any stripe) get cut out of...and I've noticed that smoking is a very social activity as well.

[scout1222]

Ah, I see. I still think it depends on why they give up meat. Personally, I hate steak. So I don't have to worry about craving it.