naughty words

This was inspired by the "Taking to Task" thread.

I've always disliked the use of sexual words to express hate, disgust, anger, etc. I've never understood the popularity of saying that something bad "sucks." In my personal experience, giving or receiving suction has been an overwhelmingly pleasurable event. I never liked "fuck you" or "get fucked" either. Even when it is not strictly lovemaking, "fucking" should, at the very least, be fun or profitable for all parties concerned(who of course are consenting adults). If you mean rape, say "rape." And that should be reserved for very extreme cases, as in "Rape you, Hitler." As far as "jerking off" in reference to goofing off or engaging in pointless activities, OK, I can see that. But the hateful stuff I don't get. If you are really mad at me, tell me to consume excrement or take residence in Hades. That I get. But don't start your insult with "kiss..,suck..,or fuck..." We both might end up liking it.

Man, it feels good to rant. It doesn't suck, but it feels pretty good.

Carl Sagan had an interesting theory on the origon of "fuck you."

Primates use sexual submissive/dominate posturing in displays of rank. Lower-status monkeys may kiss the inside of the alpha's thigh. The alpha may "hump" a lower-stautus group member, regardless of sex.

When we say "fuck you" we're possibly trying to dominate the other party in the same way.

Good theory. Now, let's evolve.

Cecil's story on the origin of "fuck" as a word of violence and displeasure is quite enlightening. I'm too lazy to look it up now, but "fuck" probably comes from "ficken" meaning "to hit" Just as, in modern parlance, some men (certainly not I) may say "I'd like to hit THAT" meaning "I'd like to have sex with her."

In response to TennHippie, I also think that sexual violence should rightfully be met with abhorrance and displeasure. I appreciate your response to my inappropriate post. I probably would have felt the same way had someone written it, and may have even said something. But that IS the point in using shocking and offensive language; it is to shock and offend. I will not defend what I said, it was inappropriate and deserved exactly the kind of response that you gave it. I said it with the purpose of getting the kind of response you gave.

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Jason R Remy

"Open mindedness is not the same thing as empty mindedness."
-- John Dewey Democracy and Education (1916)

Yes, by all means, let's find ways to make our profanity and insults less profane and insulting!

The reason things "suck," TH, is because, more specifically, they "suck cocks," or "suck dicks," and do so involuntarily. It's usually an implied action, as in, "That sucks (my dick)." The focus isn't on the suckee, it's on the sucker.

I never thought about those insults in a sexual way. When you say something like "that sucks" the last thing on my mind is a blowjob. Parasites suck, and they have never aroused me sexually in any way, shape, or form. I kind of thought thats what that meant... an ugly little bloodsucking pest that is annoying beyond belief. In other words, thats not good.

First let me say, Tenn, that the following cracked me up:

But don't start your insult with "kiss..,suck..,or fuck..." We both might end up liking it.

Thanks for the early-morning gigglefest! :)

I've also never thought that sucking had a sexual connotation. I thought it originated with the phrase: "Go suck an egg."

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Most common question I ask: "What?"
Most common question I get: "Are you really hearing impaired?"

pldennison: "The focus...is on the sucker." My point exactly. When my penis is being sucked on, I feel some combination of love, lust, gratitude, or delight towards the sucker. Never hate, anger, or disgust. I do not intend to make profanity less profane. I simply mean what I say and say what I mean. If you suck, you're OK by me!

Being gay and knowing how delightful people who suck truly are, I have started to refer to unpleasant things by saying "That bites," "That bites hard," or at least "That sucks and not in a good way, either".

A "gigglefest" here in the pit?

Over a "rant" designed as a thinly-veiled excuse to say "fuck you" all the while proclaiming a "dislike" for sexual words used as insults. Some rant.

This forum has become the Bizzaro world of the SDMB.

Okay, fine. Why don't you just go outside and play hide-and-go-fuck-yourself?


I gotta admit that one has a nice ring to it.

Actually, that one implies a compliment, if you think about it.

I never thought about those insults in a sexual way. When you say something like "that sucks" the last thing on my mind is a blowjob. Parasites suck, and they have never aroused me sexually in any way, shape, or form. I kind of thought thats what that meant... an ugly little bloodsucking pest that is annoying beyond belief. In other words, thats not good.

Damn, I wish I'd thought of saying this when I get sent to the office in 9th grade for saying the lesson "sucked". ;)

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i believe it was lenny bruce who commented that he was accused of toilet humour but a toilet is not dirty just what people put into it. in george carlin's 7 words you can't say on tv george says their just words and he drops the word kill for the word f-ck.

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garyh

Why didn't anyone come looking for me?

Hey Gary,

You're about 4 inches to the left of a lucent thought there buddy. Next time, organize your ideas into whole sentances. Remember, one idea to a sentance; group like ideas into paragraphs. It'll come a lot easier with practice. Once we overcome your fear of coherant conversation, we'll tackle you feelings towards capital letters. Punctuation may be a lost cause at this point.

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Jason R Remy

"Open mindedness is not the same thing as empty mindedness."
-- John Dewey Democracy and Education (1916)

James Joyce, John Lennon and Prince don't use capitols or punctuation. Dunt make fun of my english-Ricky Ricardo

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garyh

[jazzmine]

gary said:

James Joyce, John Lennon and Prince don't use capitols or punctuation.

well, I'm just guessing here, but I bet they used a dictionary.

Hey, Hippie, I suck... :)

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[matt_mcl]

"Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government." - Lenny Bruce

Hey trisha, I gleefully kiss your ass.

Fuck You Very Much,
jazzman

[jazzmine]

No, Jazzman, Fuck YOU very much ;).

Wondering which board a "fucking" debate should be taken to.

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

[B. G. Kimball]

My wife sucks, and I love her for it. How do you fuck off, though? This is probably the best fucking question ever asked in here.

The best way to insult someone is to refer to their sexuality. It just cuts deeper. One of my favorites is the Korean "Your mother has a bald vagina". Now how could anyone top that?

While vaginal baldness is not inherently insulting or even unfashionable, I would prefer not to "top that" in the case of my mother, fuck you very much.

In trisha's case, however....how about some Jazzman jism, Jazzmine?

P.S. To "fuck OFF" would seem to imply that one is missing something, out of bounds, off target, out in the cold, throwing an "air ball" perhaps?

[jazzmine]

God, I had to laugh. I can say "fuck" all you like, and in fact have what my mother would call a "potty mouth." But it still turns me into a giggling school girl to say "jism."

*still laughing*

and Jazzman?... ;)

trisha

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice - Albert Einstein

Glad to make you laugh, trisha. It is my second favorite natural reaction I like to cause women to have.

[B. G. Kimball]

Tenn, the jist is that your mother bore you at an early age, before she had much pubic hair.

[Satan]

Carlin, as usual, has the last word on this one:

"Why do we tell someone 'Fuck you?' We shold tell them, 'Un-fuck you.' shouldn't we?"

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html (http://rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html)

ICQ 35294890
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Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

[OpalCat]

I also thought that the "suck" thing came from the "go suck an egg" thing. Anyway, I don't think that any of them are really sexual in nature when used as insults. They have been around as insults long enough for them to have lost any other meaning they may once have had in that context.

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>^,,^<
"Cluemobile? You've got a pickup..."
OpalCat's site: http://fathom.org/opalcat
The Teeming Millions Homepage: fathom.org/teemingmillions (http://fathom.org/teemingmillions)

I agree with Carlin. OpalCat, I respectfully disagree with you regarding insults having lost any sexual connotation. I believe they originated in our shame-based ideas about sex. We keep that negativity alive, at least subconsciously, when we use those insults.

[matt_mcl]

It's not true that the best way to insult someone is to refer to their sexuality. It all depends on where you are. In some cultures, the best way is to make a religious or family reference.

Devour excrement and cease to exist, all you Oedipal heathens.

Speaking of Carlin, I gotta relate this true story. A guy I worked with in a restaurant was reciting a line from a Carlin bit. We were by the server window at the end of lunch hour...full restaurant. Dude had a pretty loud voice, but the music in the place was normally loud, too. Unfortunately, the hostess was changing tapes when my friend got to the punchline. Waitresses came running in to the kitchen, angry and/or embarrassed. Every customer in the place had clearly heard my buddy shout:

Rat shit, bat shit,
Dirty smelly twat!
97 assholes
Tied in a knot!

[lvick]

what an excellent fucking flame, juicy and high in protien. So much more nourishing than the usual BBQ fare, fuck you all, brightly, brightly and with beauty,
Larry

[lvick]

Oh yes, and isn't it 69 douchebags tied in a knot? Then again, I've always preferred 77, you get 8 more.

Jazzmine: Exactly which dictionary did James Joyce use to find the wordbababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnto
nnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohooho
ordenenthurnuk?

(line breaks inserted by moderator, to prevent sidescrolling.)
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garyh


[Note: This message has been edited by Lynn Bodoni]

[GOD]

You kids are going to brown for this. No, I do not "burn" potty-mouths. I just tan them a bit.

[zoony]

"The best way to insult someone is to refer to their sexuality."

I don't think that's necessarily so. Male athletes habitually refer to opponents and each other as 'fags' as a term of denigration. Not only does it lose any type of meaning after the gazillionth time you hear it, but I hardly think that castigation on the basis of sexual preference is a standard to which any of us need to aspire.

Similarly, the Korean insult referring to the status of pubic hair on one's mother has nothing to do with the sexuality of the person you care to insult, but that person's mother.

My brother still insults people with 'dummy' or in some cases 'fucking dummy' (sorry, TennHippie) and that still gets a laugh out of me.

Personally, I'm in favor of profanity: there's nothing I hate worse than watching an excellent movie on television and hearing a platoon of marines saying 'gosh-darn' and 'frigging heck' all over the place.

Profanity for profanity's sake is meaningless, but it's an art to be able to express your emotion with an added dose of ribald invective.

I never laughed harder than the day my four-year-old nephew told me, in all candor, that "Shit Happens."

Z

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abusus non tolit usus

Shit, I never meant to imply that I don't like profanity. I fuckin' love it. But choose your goddamned words wisely. Like I said before, it is the idea that sexuality is inherently insulting that I object to.

[Byzantine]

So, what you are looking for is insults/curses without dirty words? How about the classic:

May the fleas of thousand camels infest your armpits!

You walking talking sebaceous gland!

I wouldn't walk across the room to spit in your mouth if your teeth were on fire!

And if you don't like any of these all I can say is .....
On second thought, I'll keep it to myself!

Those are all good ones, but I think you still miss the point. I do not mind "naughty words." What I object to is equating the word "fuck" with the word "rape," and using sexual preference, or just sexuality in general, as an inherently "dirty" thing to insult people. If you say "eat shit, die slowly, rot in hell" I can be fairly certain that your feelings toward me are largely negative. If you say "fuck you" I am likely to say either:
1. when?
2. no, thank you
3. you'll never go back to him(or her) Likewise, the prevalence of "suck" as an unpleasant thing (egg and tick theories aside)confuses me. What is wrong with sucking? Most everybody I know (of any persuasion) like it in one form or another.
Curse me, but curse me correctly!

Sorry about the poor text structure of my posts. I suck at some things...and at others I am not so good.

[Byzantine]

I forgive you. I suck at some things too. Much to the delight of my male companions!

[AuraSeer]

I like the phrase "fuck you very much"; it shows far more gratitude than a simple "thanks". I think I'll use it the next time someone does me a favor. =B^)

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I'm not a warlock.
I'm a witch with a Y chromosome.

Yes, AuraSeer, I agree. Fuck you very much for mentioning that delightful phrase.


"The difference between the ALMOST right word and the RIGHT word is really a large matter--'tis the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain

[tracer]

Isn't "sucks" sometimes also found in the context of "sucks shit"?

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I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.

Now that IS sick! Who actually thinks like that?

"I do not agree with your use of the word 'suck,' but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."
--some anonymous hippie from Tennessee

[HubZilla]

I know the above postings have discussed the origins and meanings of "Fuck You", and I believe it showed up in one of Cecil's books.

My question concerns the etymology behind "fuck you". I'm reminded of a time when my Filipino wife was trying to teach me Tagalog and she couldn't translate a word into English. I insisted she try and she answered back, "What if someone asked you to directly translate 'fuck you'?" Sure, it might mean "go fuck yourself", but the verb-second person usage is so odd. Why is it that way?

For example, you wouldn't say "pinch you" instead of "go pinch yourself".