The Premiership

[irish_bill]

It's time to vote on who will win the Premiership this season.

I'll open the debate with Leeds United.

New players bought, current players reaching maturity, steady improvement over the past two years.
Oh Yes, this year belongs to Leeds.


Brickbats, bottles, to this thread please.

[casdave]

I'm from Leeds and suppport them but they will not finish top.

Huge injury list before the first kick-off means the the younger players will be used up by the seasons end, remember that they will probably have a lot of cup games and Europe games.

Look no further than Man U(scum) but the competition from a resurgant Liverpool will cost them a few points giving Arsenal more chance.
Yes I know the Arsenal have sold crucial players but they will be there at the end.

I for one will be very interested in Man City and Bradford as both have made their intentions clear.
Don't forget that Bradford took points off Chelsea, Liverpool twice, and gave Man U a hard time.

I do hope Leeds do it but I am realistic.

[irish_bill]

Originally posted by casdave

I do hope Leeds do it but I am realistic.

Dont get me wrong, casdave. I was only trying to provoke a response from people.

My own (real) take on the situation is as follows:

The manager doesn't make enough use of the squad he has at his disposal. We saw this last season when Leeds hit their annual 'Slump'.

I dont honestly think O'Leary (my namesake) has the tactical 'nous' to compete with the very best. Witness when 1860 were reduced to 10 men. I dont think the gaffer knows what to do in those situations.

Wednesday was fairly poor, missing players notwithstanding.
Poor use of the ball.

I predict fifth, this season.

[blokeychap]

The mighty Arsenal will triumph over all as they did in the glorious Double winning season a few years back, but the is an Arsenal supporter speaking. If not Arsenal then I would unfortunatly have to say that Manu may do it again or even a resurgent Liverpool. Leeds are good but not good enough right now. Chelsea are arse.

[irish_bill]

Originally posted by blokeychap
Chelsea are arse.

I always thought arse meant Arsenal.

The only thing stopping Arsenal (apart from Manu)is
who will fill the void left by Petit and Overmars?

[blokeychap]

Arsenal had already bought before they sold Manu and Overmars. Robert Pires and Lauren are decent replacements and we still have over 30 million to spend on new players if we want to - and less of the Arsenal-arse jokes

[irish_bill]

Most foreign players need a period to adjust to the frenetic pace, and typically, the baiting by english players. Some never settle properly (LeBeef, for example)

There were plenty of fireworks at Highbury when Manu and Viera first started playing with them.

The more French the better I think, Leeds signed Dacourt and he seems to have become a fine player over the last few years.

sorry about the 'arse'. No offence.

[Crusoe]

Arsenal -- I thought they had a good chance before Petit and Overmars left. It was a good bit of business, but I think that having Pires and Lauren settle in will disrupt the team. The team also needs two decent central defenders (Adams and Keown are hardly improving with age now). Plus, international commitments could be a nightmare for Wenger: France want to play one friendly a month for the whole year (which will rule out Vieira, Pires and Henry, no doubt), plus Lauren and Kanu are wanted for the Olympics. I don't think Arsenal will do well until the team settles, which ain't going to happen. Prediction? Third.

Leeds -- I'd love to see Leeds do well, but I don't think there's enough of a squad. With Batty out for the season, O'Leary only has a handful of top-class midfielders, and I reckon you need much more strength in depth over the season. I think they may start well but tail off when injuries and suspensions take their toll. Prediction? Fourth.

Chelsea -- Plenty of talent, but too many new faces -- I think they'll struggle to settle in (especially if Vialli carries on with the extreme squad rotation), and will lose a few of the less-glamourous "easy" matches. Prediction: Fifth.

Liverpool -- Similar problem to Chelsea, but even though I think Houllier's bought wisely for some reason the whole never seems to equal the sum of the parts. Prediction: Second.

Manchester United -- Oh well. Much as I dislike this lot (and boy do I dislike them) I think their experience of winning and defending titles, plus having a settled team, will make it a no-contest situation. Of course, if Keane was injured...well, I can hope.

[blokeychap]

As much as i don't want united to win the Premiership this season I really do not want to see Keane injured. The Man is Irish and we need him to do well in the World Cup qualifiers which start in September.
I agree with mattk, we do need new defenders but I'd say we have one more great year left in Adams and Keown and we also have a lot of youth players on the fringes who could do very well if given a chance much as the united youngsters did a few years ago .

[Crusoe]

My problem with Arsenal is that I just don't think the defence cut it any more. Adams is pure class, but injuries are obviously taking their toll. Keown is average Premiership quality, Dixon and Winterburn are past their sell-by dates. Seaman is looking shaky too -- I think Manninger should get the number one shirt this season, else he'll bugger off somewhere else in frustration.

The midfield isn't settled either -- Pires and Lauren might well be top-notch players, but they will need time to fit in. Overmars possibly won't be missed too much (especially as his kind of free-roaming creative role doesn't won't be a problem for Pires) but Petit will (I think it takes much longer for a defensive / working-closely-with-the-defenders player to fit in).

PS Now that Bothroyd's gone to Coventry and that other pair went to Palace, who's likely to come through this season from the youth/reserves?

[ricepad]

I think Arsenal are in a transition year. Not only have they lost Petit and Overdrive, but the back 4 (5, if you include Seamo) are getting old and won't stand the pace of a full season plus FA Cup plus Europe. We'll find out whether Lauren and Pires are a good fit - we've heard that their individual skills are top drawer, but there's more to having a good team than just skilled players. Plus, with Kanu's playing time possibly limited by international duty, and Suker's departure, the Gunners are awfully thin in front.

It is now up to Wenger to bring the youngsters up and test them under fire. Weston, Pennant, Upson, Cole....these could be the names of the future. Let's just hope they're not names like Gus Caesar...

[ricepad]

As for some of the other teams, I don't think Chelsea will finish any higher than 7th, Spurs will be mid-table as well, but look for Leeds to threaten to the end.

One other thing...fuck ManU.

[casdave]

This post got lost inthe admin maintenance aaarrggghh!


Here we go again.

One thing that disturbs me about the Premiership is that it seems that there are only four or five teams in it and then there's everybody else.
At least ten maybe twelve clubs will be involved in the relegation fight at some point in the season and the rest will be stuck in mid-table nothingness.
There does not appear to be any way this is going to change either since it all hinges on cash and marketability, it is fair to say that those clubs at the top learned how to market themselves earlier and better than everyone else and they have more or less cornered the sponsers into their boardrooms.

The only effect that most clubs will have on the final state of the table is by taking the odd point off the real protagonists.

It is all down to money, it will not be long before English clubs are shelling out £25mill or more for a player.
Newcaslte tried to match the spending of the big boys but made a pigs ear of things, it will be some time before they recover and when Shearer finishes his career which surely cannot be far away then they will be stuck.

Much of the romanc e has gone from top flight soccer, maybe it went a long time ago.

Personally I find the division one is more interesting, a good run can see a club rise from relegation worries to promotion contenders in the space of ten games or so and the reverse can happen too.
Hope that Barnsley can start this season as well as they finished the last.

[irish_bill]

Casdave has a point.

My heart leapt when I heard about Kidderminster Harriers and their 2-0 win, their first game in League football. Can u imagine how their fan(s) (sorry) feel?

The premiership resembles F1, the same faces, the all too rare upset.

The season hasn't started yet, I know, but I'm bored already, and hey, I started this thread.

Do Kidderminster need another fan?

[ruadh]

I'll put my vote in for Man U, but I'm not ready to write off Arsenal. They may well get off to a slow start but I can't see Lauren and especially Pires not doing the job once they get settled in.

Liverpool will finish in the top three, provided their chronic injury problems don't trouble them too much.

I don't see Leeds doing it either unless they get their midfield sorted. Particularly since their new striker is a big lazy bastard who will only touch the ball if someone lays it at his feet.

Oh, and Chelsea to finish below Tottenham ;)

[London_Calling]

Arsenal - I suspect Pires is going to be more than adequate compensation for Overmars, think he might be quite special. Not sure about the Gooners defence, I tend to think a back four like the old guard come along once in a blue moon so not having them as effective, or not at all, just seems to make Arsenal mere defensive mortals. Petit is a huge loss, irreplacable. mattk, can France have them if it’s only friendlies ? – I (hope so)

Meanwhile, on the sunny upland slopes side of the High Road, N17 we have Rebrov
Tottenham - Now, I’m always optimistic at this time of the year – for about 3 weeks – but it seems to me that Premiership clubs take a season or so to get to grip with a new quality forward (be interesting to see how Phillips gets on at Sunderland this season). So, because of Rebrov (and other reasons as well), I see Spurs getting off to a great start but fading by January as the lack of squad depth begins to tell, probably ending up around 5th. Didn’t Rebrov look so sharp today against Arnham !! he he…

Chelsea - Not sure Vialli will have a job by Christmas so much may depend on who replaces him – if I’m right. Playing the squad game without dressing room dissent has not been Chelsea’s strong point so it will be interesting. Been perpetual Bridesmaids in recent years, don’t see that changing.

Liverpool – virtually a brand new defence last year and it worked out unbelievably well but this season teams will be know a lot more about them. Could be a lot harder for them - and the jury’s still out on Heskey. A season for consolidation, IMHO

If I look beyond Man U, I only see the usual suspects and I dislike all of them – ok, Arsenal more – so I actually don’t care who wins the bloody thing. The Cockrell is in the ascendant, another couple of seasons yet – sooner if we get rid of Sugar.

To win – Man U (bastards)
Runners Up – Leeds (wasn’t O’Leary the most boring TV pundit ever at Euro 2000, O’Bleary)
Third – the boring, boring side of North London


ruadh Do you have a cockrell emblazened on your heart, also ?

[ruadh]

Originally posted by London_Calling
ruadh Do you have a cockrell emblazened on your heart, also ?
[/B]

My heart belongs to Celtic. But I do have a soft spot for Spurs.

[London_Calling]

My heart belongs to Celtic. But I do have a soft spot for Spurs.

That'll please TheMadHun

[ruadh]

Who cares? ;)

[Crusoe]

London_Calling -- I think France can call up whoever they like and Arsenal have to lump it, even for friendlies.

Oh, and.....WOOHOO! TOP OF THE LEAGUE *ahem*after one game*ahem*!! ANDY RITCHIE'S BLUE ARMY! LATICS 4 PORT VALE 1!!

[London_Calling]

"And they'll be throwing their bicycle clips in the air tonight!"



- Hope you're right, matt. Think of all those extra fixtures, the travelling, the missed league games......I could almost cry.

"Glory, Glory Hallalulah......"

[London_Calling]

BTW, I agree with {B}Irish Bill[/b] and casdave. The First Div is always more fun to follow. Just seems a lot more unpredictable, always a great finale (remember Charlton at Wembley in the playoffs !) and somehow nearer the soul of the game.

Went to Port Vale once, mid week Leauge Cup game, rained all night, about a 36 hour epic in a mini bus (things became a little involved). Not going back in a hurry. Good chips, though.

[dpr]

Well I came here full of ideas and mattk has stolen my thoughts almost verbatim.

I think Arsenal will finish second though with Liverpool third (dammit). Leeds could finish anywhere from 4th to 8th by my reckoning. Their strikers being down here for the Olympics ("injury" notwithstanding) might be a hinderance but then again could be a positive with a fresh injection in October.

Liverpool seems to be lacking something and I suspect it's in the midfield and I don't think the answers were on the other side of the mersey. They just can't seem to pull it together and play as a whole team. Here's hoping they find some consistency this year.

Tottenham? 7th.

And I too love the first division. There is definitely more heart and passion and a better all-round comp. Not that I want my team relegated though... ;)

[casdave]

Not that I want my team relegated though

....and that would be....?

[irish_bill]

Casdave,

Any thoughts on the upcoming Leeds court case?

[dpr]

Well I don't think there's much chance of my team being relegated. I support the Reds (Liverpool).

I'm quite anti Man Utd. And I dsislike Wimbledon. I always enjoyed watching Norwich though. And in the 80s I flirted with Luton as a 2nd team.... *sigh*

[casdave]

Thoughts on the Leeds court case.

Give young lads lots of money and status, especially in a town like Leeds which is very working class (blue collar) and they start to believe their own hype.

To my mind a bunch of them went out posing, maybe got drunk some and for whatever reason got into a fight, being drilled into working as a team they set about some others and came out on top.
There was an attempt to dress it up as a racist incident but I think that is just mischief making.
They appear to have tried to cover it up which has made it even worse.

GBH is serious even as a first time offence and I would have thought custodials are well within the realms of likihood.There is certain to be a very large fine and a lot of community work at the least and then there will be compensation claims.

If they do come to jail they will almost certainly end up in mine which will be handy as Leeds Utd uses some of the land currently not required by the prison as a training ground.Its very green and peaceful round here,its a fair way out of Leeds and a few of the players live in the nearby village.

We have had one or two celebs before and its a nuisance as the bloody journalists take up all the car parking.

" Bowyer! Pick up that mop and follow me! "

[irish_bill]

Originally posted by casdave
Thoughts on the Leeds court case.

" Bowyer! Pick up that mop and follow me! "

I can just picture that, thanks Casdave.