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View Full Version : "Speak it into existence" -- what does that mean?


whole bean
11-18-2005, 02:44 PM
I was watching the glorious trainwreck that is Fox's Trading Spouses featuring Magaret Perrin (a.k.a. the "God Warrior"), wherein I heard her use the above referenced phrase, but much of the context was removed, so I don't know what she meant. My web search brought up some fluffy religious sites (something about an a experiment with two glasses of water, one was yelled, the other spoken to in soothing tones, then both were frozen -- the scolded water froze jagged, the pampered water smooth -- yeah, whatever.) So can anyone help me out. My secretary tells me this is pentacostal lingo, but she couldn't really elaborate.

whole bean
11-18-2005, 02:46 PM
:smack: Mods, I meant for this to go in GQ. Please move if you don't mind, and I appologize

ElvisL1ves
11-18-2005, 04:04 PM
I'm not a practitioner myself, but did she mean "speak faith into existence"?

Here (http://staciwilder.blogspot.com/2005/06/speaking-faith-into-existence.html) is the story about glasses of water. Looks to me like a fine job for Mythbusters.

Homebrew
11-18-2005, 04:20 PM
"And God said..."

Pentecostals, typically, are literalists and believe the Genesis account of creation is historically accurate. Therefore, God spoke the universe into existence.

whole bean
11-18-2005, 05:13 PM
I'm not a practitioner myself, but did she mean "speak faith into existence"?

Here (http://staciwilder.blogspot.com/2005/06/speaking-faith-into-existence.html) is the story about glasses of water. Looks to me like a fine job for Mythbusters.

Right that's the story I was talking about, but it doesn't really help. I guess Homebrew has circled in on the idea, I am just wondering if they carry this over to more mundane things -- like physical well being -- I speak myself into good health -- or wealth, or the conversion of others?

HeyHomie
11-18-2005, 05:33 PM
Some (pentecostal) Christians believe that if you need something, you say into the air what you need, and if you have enough faith, you'll have it.

You need a car? Speak it into existence. Go out to your driveway and say, "Driveway, you're going to have a car sitting on you by this time next week."

That's the idea, anyway.

whole bean
11-18-2005, 06:47 PM
Some (pentecostal) Christians believe that if you need something, you say into the air what you need, and if you have enough faith, you'll have it.

You need a car? Speak it into existence. Go out to your driveway and say, "Driveway, you're going to have a car sitting on you by this time next week."

That's the idea, anyway.

thanks

Mangetout
11-18-2005, 07:17 PM
I used to go to a church where this was quite a popular idea, rearing its head in a number of different forms, but chiefly:

-material prosperity; you could 'speak' your finances into shape, by asserting that you were rich.
-physical wellbeing; you could 'speak' yourself healthy, by asserting that disease has no dominion over you.

Didn't actually seem to make much difference, at least not much positive difference - in notable cases it made things worse because rather than seeking the counsel of a financial advisor or doctor, you just soldier on bravely denying that there's even a problem (you don't dare admit there's a problem, because that will cause the problem to spring into existence).
Until it all goes horribly wrong, then your peers can smugly announce that your downfall was due to lack of faith or some private (and most likely sexual) sin, or that, as you collapsed to the ground in a high fever, you muttered "Oh God, I feel terrible!" and thus 'spoke' your illness into existence - you'd have been perfectly OK, you see, if you just kept on speaking yourself well...

A related phenomenon is 'Believing God For...' (...things God may not have actually explicitly promised), as in "I'm going to Believe God For the money for that skiing holiday I want".

Derleth
11-18-2005, 08:21 PM
Out of curiosity, are these people the same ones who tend to believe magic to be satanic?

jayjay
11-18-2005, 08:28 PM
It surprises me that this would be a popular idea in such conservative Christian circles. It seems very non-Christian and "New-Agey" to me...I'd bet that if it were observed in a different (non-church) context by the very people who apparently engage in it, it would be denoted as being "of Satan".

Mangetout
11-18-2005, 08:36 PM
It surprises me that this would be a popular idea in such conservative Christian circles. It seems very non-Christian and "New-Agey" to me...I'd bet that if it were observed in a different (non-church) context by the very people who apparently engage in it, it would be denoted as being "of Satan".This is indeed the case; the same people espousing the idea can be found denouncing it in other contexts, such as Christian Science, but that may not be as significant as it seems; these are very often people who will denounce or at least frown upon anything that is more than slightly different from their particular manner of faith.

Tevildo
11-18-2005, 09:08 PM
"Who says God exists and is all-powerful? Last night, I spent twenty minutes on my knees praying for him to fix the gearbox on my Austin 1100, and did he? Did he arse! If anything, he's made it worse. I can't even get it into second gear now."

Viz, c. 1990

Humble Servant
11-18-2005, 10:53 PM
Vaimonoinen, the poet hero of the Kalevala, the Finnish national epic, sings the world into existence.

It's obvious that our "god warrior" is a stealth Finn. First, culture; next, world domination.

Chotii
11-19-2005, 01:49 AM
I would not necessarily blame this on 'Pentacostals' - it's not typical in Foursquare churches, at least not back when I was a Christian - and most Assembly of God would eschew it. But I have seen others - Casey Treat's travesty of a church is a big example, and I went to one in Missoula for a while with the same general approach, and it was this:

"Name it and Claim it."

God wants you to be rich, and healthy, and blah blah blah. Name your desire in Jesus' name, and claim it in faith, because it's already yours.

The year was 1990. I had just come to that church in Missoula from a group in Portland Oregon that was going to jail (see: www.lifeadvocate.org) for effectively giving up everything they had, including their families, and going to jail, to try to slow down the number of abortions in Portland....in Jesus name.

The contrast could not have been more jarring. Or offensive to me. I called it "Blab it and Grab it", and mocked it savagely....in Jesus' name. I mean, Jesus didn't go around naming and claiming all kinds of riches, did he? He had the clothes on his back, the sandals on his feet, and next to nothing else, and he went around doing good for people instead of worrying what he was going to get next. I shortly became very unwelcome in the young adults' Sunday School. I doubt the pastor of the church knew what the young adult class was really about, because the church was not teaching that level of materialism, in Jesus' name or anybody else's name.

I suspect (I didn't see the television show but I've seen enough commentary on the meltdown and the woman in question) that 'Speak it into existence' is the same sort of faithcraft...uh, conjury. Sort of thing. I'm glad I didn't watch that show. It would have made me feel sick. 15 years I've been out of that stuff, and seeing that kind of depiction still makes me sick.

Saint Cad
11-19-2005, 03:02 AM
This phrase could date back at least to the Greeks who used "logos" with the connotation of existence. I belive Parmenides of Elea used this idea of speaking and becoming when discussing the non-existence of non-being, although it was Hereclitus who first used the term "logos".

This concept may predate Biblical times because the Greek part of the Bible uses the idea of words => existence but so did the Hebrew section (Yahweh speaks to make the Light). Also, some ancient cultures believed that saying a person's true name allowed you to have power over them.

Chotii
11-19-2005, 04:03 AM
Well, perhaps the phrase goes back, but I doubt seriously that Mrs. Temper-tantrum SLAGKICK DARKSIDED Godwarrior woman was using it in its classical sense. :D

Khadaji
11-19-2005, 08:55 AM
There is a book out now called The Hidden Message In Water (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1582701148/002-7120133-2468043?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)

The Hidden Messages in Water is an eye-opening theory showing how water is deeply connected to people's individual and collective consciousness. Drawing from his own research, scientific researcher, healer, and popular lecturer Dr. Masaru Emoto describes the ability of water to absorb, hold, and even retransmit human feelings and emotions.

TV time
11-19-2005, 09:15 AM
I am somewhat surprised that George W. has not latched on to this as an example of what happened to the Weapons of Mass Distruction. I mean it falls right into the man's lap.

"So many people were praying the weapons would go away, they did. That's why we can't find them"

Brynda
11-19-2005, 04:55 PM
I have heard this idea expressed in different ways several times. I asked our hospital chaplain about it and she said it is a common belief among some people that if you want something, you "claim" it, and if you believe, it will happen. This works for negative things, too, so people with these beliefs would not ever want to talk about "what if you don't get better" or "what if you get worse", etc, because they believed that naming it would make it happen. It made it very frustrating to work with them sometimes.

samclem
11-19-2005, 07:49 PM
I am somewhat surprised that George W. has not latched on to this as an example of what happened to the Weapons of Mass Distruction. I mean it falls right into the man's lap.

"So many people were praying the weapons would go away, they did. That's why we can't find them"
Let's keep General Questions just that--questions and their answers. Politics belongs in other forums.

samclem GQ moderator