Limbaugh, Kerry and the madness of Politics

[New Iskander]

Rush Limbaugh is officially senile.

It seems to be accepted as truth that 9-11 made conservatives the virtual slaves of Bush administration. My personal experience was exactly the opposite. I used to be within conservative mainstream before 9-11. In particular I used to listen to Limbaugh quite often without much disagreement, except for his pomposity. I was Clinton hater, too.

After 9-11, all that has changed. First, I was revolted by emerging chorus from the right that the country is much safer with Bush, culminating in Limbaugh actually saying, “Praise God for George Bush!” on the air. I stopped listening to his show right there.

Next, I went back and reviewed everything Clinton-Gore administration has done in foreign politics and realized what good and important things they were doing for the country and the whole world, at the time when majority of the US populace didn’t care about ‘stupid foreigners’ one way or another.

Anyway, it’s been three years since I listened to Limbaugh show. Today I was driving to work late and decided to tune in. Limbaugh was trashing Kerry. Apparently, Kerry said that young US soldiers shouldn’t terrorize Iraqi civilians by breaking into their dwellings in the middle of the night, but to leave this to Iraqi internal forces. I thought it was perfectly sensible, but Limbaugh was screaming how stupid, wrong and unpatriotic it was to say that. Went downhill from there. It was simply embarrassing. Democrat Saddam lawyer, Dems giving Iraq back to Hussein, paying retributions to Saddam and so on, and so forth. Simply embarrassing. And always back to Kerry, evil, stupid, traitorous Kerry with his treasonous testimony to Congress in 1971. I can’t believe sane person can say such things. So for me, Limbaugh has officially entered retirement. His mouth is still running, but not his brain. No more about him.

Which brings us to Kerry. His suggestion was perfectly sensible and well informed. He knows first hand about such things. Likewise, there must have been a lot of truth to his Congress testimony in 1971. Vietnam was a slaughterhouse, with at least 10 Viet Cong killed for any US soldier, not counting civilians. It was the same tactics as WW2, except this time the slaughterhouse approach didn’t work. Kerry called it like it was, basically. He was there, strafing the jungle with machine gun and shooting up civilian saipans.

By the end of 2004 presidential campaign I thought I had a glimpse of what the real man Kerry is. I think he was terribly miscast by stupid Dem political strategists and Reps took immediate advantage of that. Dems went batshit crazy with their demands for handsome, smart and noble candidate, anti-war icon but also a war hero. Kerry is not all that smart (his grades are below Bush’s), not nuanced but blunt (his equivocations actually result from talking straight every time; he just can’t freeze and smile stupidly at the cameras) and as I said before (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5392953#post5392953) would make a good President. I still didn’t vote for him because he was so miscast; I was afraid he can’t be his own man.

Which brings us, finally, to regular Democrats in general. I heard it said by some ancient Greek that if Dems will give the country a decent candidate that majority of people can understand and trust, half the Republican party will jump to your side. I think it’s quite plausible. I believe the honest, sane Democrat president is our best prospect for 2008. Stop chasing chimeras, educate yourselves about the state of modern world, stop twisting in the wind every time Rove farts in your direction and show you can win.

[rjung]

Okay, who hacked New Iskander's account? 'fess up!

[PunditLisa]

I'm right wing and I always thought that Limbaugh was an idiot. These "we vs. them" radio show hosts of either persuasion only serve to polarize the nation even more than it already is. I wish they'd all go away.

The Democratic leadership has proven that they have no idea how to run a Presidential campaign. They inexplicably kowtow to the right wing and try to sterilize every issue (including abortion, the death penalty, etc) to the point where they become unrecognizable as an opposition candidate. I'd like a candidate who is willing to state a contrary position no matter what the polls say. I've yet to see that candidate.

Personally I think John McCain is the most sensible man on the political horizon. He's Republican but is pro-environment and is willing to (gasp) criticize his own side when the screw up. Which they've done a lot recently.

[askeptic]

WTF, This is not the NI we all know and love.....

[rayh]

Okay, who hacked New Iskander's account? 'fess up!

It is either a CIA plot or some kind of mod revenge for all the pit threads against them.

[Marley23]

Kerry is not all that smart (his grades are below Bush’s), not nuanced but blunt (his equivocations actually result from talking straight every time; he just can’t freeze and smile stupidly at the cameras) and as I said before (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5392953#post5392953) would make a good President
I'll argue with you on this one point. I can't in good conscience say that a guy is "not all that smart" based on his mediocre grades at Yale. I won't vouch for how smart Kerry is or isn't; I don't think you get solid grounds to judge that in a campaign. I do think he proved he knows how to argue and he can certainly express himself in writing, even if he is not what you'd call thrilling. I didn't see anything on that level that would lead me to conclude he's "not all that smart." The man was certainly not chosen, by the way, for his looks.

I will say with total confidence that Kerry is not blunt. Blunt people say what they mean and say it dirctly. Kerry earned a reputation as a dull speaker because he tends to belabor every point and go into too much detail. And his major gaffes were not caused by bluntness, they were caused by failure to express himself clearly. His wordiness actually results in decreased clarity. "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it" is the most famous and illustrative example. It would have been possible to clearly explain those votes in a way that made a positive point. Instead, he unleashed one of the clumsiest lines in modern political history. It simultaneously made him look inarticulate, dishonest and weak, and it provided the Republicans with a gift-wrapped campaign theme. In a sense, his failure to respond to the Swift Boat people was also a failure to clearly explain himself.

[World Eater]

Hey good call New iskander! :)

From one who's changed their mind on a great deal of things as well, it's been an interesting past few years. I salute you for weighing both sides, and coming to your own opinion.

[Wolfian]

When New Iskander thinks you're a dumbass something is terriblely wrong. Kinda like when Pat Buchann actually sounded sensible for about a month after 9-11.

I'm going to go outside and see if the birds are flying backwards or the horses are eating themselves now...

[Revtim]

Are the nazis riding dinosaurs yet?

[Metacom]

When New Iskander thinks you're a dumbass something is terriblely wrong. Kinda like when Pat Buchann actually sounded sensible for about a month after 9-11.
Is insulting someone who agrees with you a good way to further your position?

[Miller]

Are the nazis riding dinosaurs yet?

Nein! I mean... no!

Grrrooar!

Quiet, you schweinhund Tyrannosaur!

[Merijeek]

Are the nazis riding dinosaurs yet?

They're called Jesus Horses, thank you.

-Joe

[SteveG1]

If this is Isky, then who the hell have I been slugging it out with in that other thread?

[HPL]

If this is Isky, then who the hell have I been slugging it out with in that other thread?

I suspect this is his twin from the Evil parallel universe. Check for a Goatee.

[World Eater]

I suspect this is his twin from the Evil parallel universe. Check for a Goatee.

..and a sash!

[bizzwire]

Alright....Who are you, and what have you done with New Iskander?

[mhendo]

What's up with you people? This is just more of New Iskander's usual shit, in slightly different clothes.

Can none of you see the complete and utter contradiction in his post?

First, he spends paragraphs telling us that Kerry is, essentially, a sane and honest man, and then he berates Democrats for their choice of Presidential candidate, and says that many Republicans (and, presumably, NI himself) would vote for a Democratic candidate if only he were honest and sane. Well, moron, by your own definition, you got a sane and honest Democratic candidate last year, and you didn't vote for him.

He also gives us a further small window into his even smaller brain when he tells us that the reason that he didn't vote for Kerry was not because of anything Kerry did or didn't do, but because he was "miscast." So, basically, he refused to vote for Kerry because of how other people portrayed him.

New Iskander, you are welcome to vote for Bush or any other moron of your choosing whenever you like. But you don't do yourself any favours by exposing the lack of rational thinking behind your decision.

[Harborwolf]

Man, it's going to break Iskanders little heart to find out that Clinton got a blow job. Nobody tell him.

And it took you this long to figure out that Limbaugh is a mouth operating without a brain?

[SteveG1]

What's up with you people? This is just more of New Iskander's usual shit, in slightly different clothes.

Can none of you see the complete and utter contradiction in his post?

First, he spends paragraphs telling us that Kerry is, essentially, a sane and honest man, and then he berates Democrats for their choice of Presidential candidate, and says that many Republicans (and, presumably, NI himself) would vote for a Democratic candidate if only he were honest and sane. Well, moron, by your own definition, you got a sane and honest Democratic candidate last year, and you didn't vote for him.

He also gives us a further small window into his even smaller brain when he tells us that the reason that he didn't vote for Kerry was not because of anything Kerry did or didn't do, but because he was "miscast." So, basically, he refused to vote for Kerry because of how other people portrayed him.

New Iskander, you are welcome to vote for Bush or any other moron of your choosing whenever you like. But you don't do yourself any favours by exposing the lack of rational thinking behind your decision.
So he was saying it was better to elect someone dishonest and insane? Because of "miscasting"? That is fucking crazy.

[Merijeek]

Man, it's going to break Iskanders little heart to find out that Clinton got a blow job. Nobody tell him.

And it took you this long to figure out that Limbaugh is a mouth operating without a brain?

Hmm...if Oxycontin can make Rush's mouth spew hatred for years nonstop...maybe we've solved our Energy Crisis?

-Joe

[GIGObuster]

Are the nazis riding dinosaurs yet?

:D

Someone also watches Drawn Together!


At first, it does look like someone else posted with NI's account. But I also noticed what mhendo said.

[Scylla]

Kerry made a bad statement. He said words to the effect that:

US forces shouldn't be invading searching and terrorizing Iraqi homes. Iraqis should be doing that.

It's a mildly amusing political gaffe. I think we all can understand what he actually meant to say.

Apparently Limbaugh riffed on the literal meaning of his words rather than the clear intent, in some kind of Reederesque fashion which is, whatever.

Now apparently New Iskander thinks that Kerry's literal words were actually his intended meaning and faults Limbaugh for questioning it?

Boy, I think you got this one wrong, Bud.

[Zoe]

New Iskander, good step in tuning out Limbaugh. I think your reasons for not voting for Kerry were a stretch.

Sometime before the next Presidential election, why not actually list those things which are really a priority with you. If the opportunity presents itself, match the candidates background and voting record to your priorities. Take group-funded attacks with a grain of salt -- including one source news reports.

Congressman Harold Ford is running for Frist's seat in the Senate. Keep an eye on him --if not in 2008, then another day. (But that's from my POV; he may not fit the bill for you.)

[FinnAgain]

If this is Isky, then who the hell have I been slugging it out with in that other thread?

Remember that Isky likes to play dumb.
Will the 'real' Isky please stand up?

[Daisy Mae]

Kerry made a bad statement. He said words to the effect that:

US forces shouldn't be invading searching and terrorizing Iraqi homes. Iraqis should be doing that.

It's a mildly amusing political gaffe. I think we all can understand what he actually meant to say.

Apparently Limbaugh riffed on the literal meaning of his words rather than the clear intent, in some kind of Reederesque fashion which is, whatever.

Now apparently New Iskander thinks that Kerry's literal words were actually his intended meaning and faults Limbaugh for questioning it?

Boy, I think you got this one wrong, Bud.

I can see where Limbaugh would like those. I know he probably was a little fuzzy during the years he was on the hillbilly heroin but I hope he didn't miss his chance to riff on these gems:

"The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself." —George W Bush, Grand Rapids, MI, Jan. 29, 2003

and my personal favorite

"I was proud the other day when both Republicans and Democrats stood with me in the Rose Garden to announce their support for a clear statement of purpose, 'You disarm, or we will.'" George W Bush, Washington DC Oct 5, 2003

[lonesome loser]

I for one am willing to take you at your words.

Looks good on you.

[Marley23]

I can see where Limbaugh would like those. I know he probably was a little fuzzy during the years he was on the hillbilly heroin but I hope he didn't miss his chance to riff on these gems:
Neither of those is as good as "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." (Dec. 11, 2004)
So he was saying it was better to elect someone dishonest and insane? Because of "miscasting"? That is fucking crazy.
That does seem to be what he said, actually. Kerry wasn't his own person, even though he was apparently a pretty decent one, so it was better to elect a dumbass who represented himself more accurately.

[Jackmannii]

I heard it said by some ancient Greek that if Dems will give the country a decent candidate that majority of people can understand and trust, half the Republican party will jump to your side. What's this, Dukakis trying for a comeback in '08? :eek:

[Albert Rose]

I also had trouble voting for Kerry, New Iskander. I'm glad you've got the same low opinion of Limbaugh that I do. Thanks for sharing your views.

[Digital Stimulus]

What's this, Dukakis trying for a comeback in '08? :eek:
In case you didn't realize it, it's a reference to a post Scylla made in another thread. Don't remember which one, sorry, perhaps NI's "Curse of the Donkeys" thread?

[wring]

In case you didn't realize it, it's a reference to a post Scylla made in another thread. Don't remember which one, sorry, perhaps NI's "Curse of the Donkeys" thread?
I'm sure jack got the reference.

[ElvisL1ves]

Next, I went back and reviewed everything Clinton-Gore administration has done in foreign politics and realized what good and important things they were doing for the country and the whole world, at the time when majority of the US populace didn’t care about ‘stupid foreigners’ one way or another.
...
Which brings us to Kerry. His suggestion was perfectly sensible and well informed. He knows first hand about such things.
...
By the end of 2004 presidential campaign I thought I had a glimpse of what the real man Kerry is. I think he was terribly miscast by stupid Dem political strategists and Reps took immediate advantage of that.
...
I still didn’t vote for him because he was so miscast; I was afraid he can’t be his own man.
...
if Dems will give the country a decent candidate that majority of people can understand and trust, half the Republican party will jump to your side. I think it’s quite plausible.You just finished telling us that's what the Democrats did in 2004, in effect. You voted against him anyway because of some image somebody else created, not because of who you acknowledged he really is. That isn't the Democrats' fault, it's your own, for being so willing to dismiss facts and swallow hype. Maybe if guys like you would start to think for yourselves a little more often, we'd have better government, no?

But you've made a good start here and deserve some credit. Well done.

[New Iskander]

Kerry made a bad statement. He said words to the effect that:

US forces shouldn't be invading searching and terrorizing Iraqi homes. Iraqis should be doing that.

It's a mildly amusing political gaffe. I think we all can understand what he actually meant to say.

Apparently Limbaugh riffed on the literal meaning of his words rather than the clear intent, in some kind of Reederesque fashion which is, whatever.

Now apparently New Iskander thinks that Kerry's literal words were actually his intended meaning and faults Limbaugh for questioning it?

Boy, I think you got this one wrong, Bud.I trust everybody knows by now that I'm not really smart? Good, so we don't need to go there again.

Yes, I do think Kerry meant every word he said. Including the 'terrorizing' word, which would be a complete No-No for any political advisor. I think it proves that Kerry is blunt and not glib at all.

When you have armed soldiers breaking into your house at night, you are being terrorized. Perhaps break in they should, but let's not mince words.

Yes, Iraqis should be doing that, absolutely.

Kind of like I support right-wing cooks, when they run crazy imagining that UN troops will be stationed at US National Parks. UN troops shouldn't be allowed to terrorize US citizens. We have our own police to do that.
___________________________________

How I voted, means jack. My state was deep at the bottom of Kerry's pocket from the get go.

Yes, I do have contrasting opinions, only find it hard to express them in that verbal war going on.

Yes, I think Dems bear the most blame for their failures at the ballot box.

For example, I think you have a decent candidate for '08 in Hillary. If the election was today, I'd vote for her. But just look at the shitfest brewing on the Left against her (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/5/205257/190). What will that lead to?

We have three years to go before '08 and indications are mixed. If the Left extremists will prevail and she will have to cow-tow to them, I will not vote for her.

[New Iskander]

I'm sure jack got the reference.This one (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6861609&postcount=234), at the bottom.

[Marley23]

Yes, I do think Kerry meant every word he said. Including the 'terrorizing' word, which would be a complete No-No for any political advisor.
Unless he's trying to score points by criticizing the administration, of course.
I think it proves that Kerry is blunt and not glib at all.
It doesn't, and blunt is not the opposite of glib.
How I voted, means jack. My state was deep at the bottom of Kerry's pocket from the get go.
You're dodging the issue. The reasons you stated for not voting for him were kinda dumb.

[New Iskander]

You're dodging the issue. The reasons you stated for not voting for him were kinda dumb.Don't forget, we don't agree on everything. Iraq is one thing we disagree. Bush is another.

You think Bush is an abomination. I think Bush is a decent President.

Bush certainly is not a genius or a savior, and he might be in way over his head. But so would be anybody else on the national political scene. He's doing the best he can under the circumstances and he is under no obligation to roll over for any of your candidates.

So if I say that Kerry is a good man, to me it doesn't mean he's better then Bush.

[Marley23]

He's doing the best he can under the circumstances and he is under no obligation to roll over for any of your candidates.
That's just dumb, since I suggested nothing of the sort. I didn't say a thing about Bush either, since that isn't the topic. I was talking about your comment that "I still didn’t vote for him because he was so miscast; I was afraid he can’t be his own man." That's a stupid reason not to vote for someone. Disagreeing with his platform would be a good one.

[mhendo]

Don't forget, we don't agree on everything. Iraq is one thing we disagree. Bush is another.You miss the point completely.

This is not about whether or not you agree with other people about particular issues.

It's about the internal logic (or lack thereof) of your stated reason for not voting for Kerry last year.

[bup]

Well, it's refreshing to see someone who can find fault with a crap dispenser, even when they're espousing the views of "your side." There are plenty of people on these boards who can't.

Bullshit's bullshit, no matter which way it leans.

Well done, NI.

[New Iskander]

That's just dumb, since I suggested nothing of the sort. I didn't say a thing about Bush either, since that isn't the topic. I was talking about your comment that "I still didn’t vote for him because he was so miscast; I was afraid he can’t be his own man." That's a stupid reason not to vote for someone. Disagreeing with his platform would be a good one.I'll try to explain again. Considering I had to choose between two decent men (in my opinion) the fact that Kerry campaign was poorly handled and too much beholden to radical Left, tilted the scales toward Bush for me. It was not his whole platform, but it was a part of it.

The same may happen in '08, if you kow-tow to your crazy Dean and his cohorts. Fucker like Dean, given room to grow, may develop into little Lenin even.

[JohnBckWLD]

From CNN's Situation Room (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/06/sitroom.01.html):"John Kerry was on "Face The Nation" this past weekend and talked about American troops terrorizing Iraqi people, going into Iraqis' homes. I thought that was an incredibly irresponsible comment. I thought that Nancy Pelosi's echoing the retreat and defeat strategy that was laid out earlier was also wrong. I think Democrats all around the country need to stand up and be counted."Followed by this press release statement: "Ken Mehlman's filthy and shameful lie about a decorated combat veteran is disgraceful. Political hack Ken Mehlman and draft-dodging doughnut-eating Rush Limbaugh have something in common. Neither of them know anything about how to make American troops safe. John Kerry will continue to speak out about how to succeed in Iraq and protect brave American troops."Say what you want about Kerry - but that's a cheesy & purposely distracting response to his "terrorizing" comment.

[Revtim]

Say what you want about Kerry - but that's a cheesy & purposely distracting response to his "terrorizing" comment.IMHO "doughnut-eating" was kind of out of line. Besides, "pill-popping" works better.

[Marley23]

Considering I had to choose between two decent men (in my opinion) the fact that Kerry campaign was poorly handled and too much beholden to radical Left, tilted the scales toward Bush for me. It was not his whole platform, but it was a part of it.
Gee, if only you'd talked about that AT ALL in your OP, I might have known or responded to it.
The same may happen in '08, if you kow-tow to your crazy Dean and his cohorts.
Wait. On the one hand, the party is beholden to the radical left, but on the other hand, I'm beholden to Democratic leadership? Who do you think I am, and what do you think I think?
Fucker like Dean, given room to grow, may develop into little Lenin even.
What the fuck are you talking about? Aside from his stance on Iraq, to my knowledge Dean is pretty moderate.

[Revtim]

What the fuck are you talking about? Aside from his stance on Iraq, to my knowledge Dean is pretty moderate.But he made a funny scream! The media showed it all the time! THAT MEANS HE'S CRAZY AND A COMMUNIST!!!!

[World Eater]

He's doing the best he can under the circumstances and he is under no obligation to roll over for any of your candidates.

The whole point is that most of the circumstances are his inept doing.

[New Iskander]

But he made a funny scream! The media showed it all the time! THAT MEANS HE'S CRAZY AND A COMMUNIST!!!!Look, this is XXI century, communism doesn't mean anything anymore to anybody.

What Lenin really was, a distilled force of destruction. He would lie about everybody regarding everything if it suited his purposes. His only goal was power and his tactics was wreaking havoc. He would pen articles accusing his opponents of being the agents of German and British imperialists at the same time, and then he would use money from Germans and British to publish it. Lenin never did anything positive but took a lot of credit for everything that was done by honest people.

I was watching Dean since he emerged on national scene before the last election, and he has never done anything positive. All his statements are irresponsible. calculated to produce hatred and general anymosity in society and are harmful to US gov't and political system.

[ElvisL1ves]

Yet you can discuss the defamatory lies told about Kerry by the Bush staff and use that as a reason to support Bush. How's that work?

[Marley23]

All his statements are irresponsible. calculated to produce hatred and general anymosity in society and are harmful to US gov't and political system.
I love the way you say these crazy things as if they're supposed to be self-evident.

[Merijeek]

I love the way you say these crazy things as if they're supposed to be self-evident.

All your quoting are irresponsible. calculated to produce hatred and general anymosity in society and are harmful to US gov't and political system.

-Joe, didn't bother correcting verb tenses

[New Iskander]

I love the way you say these crazy things as if they're supposed to be self-evident.I love how you look up to me for guidance and try to interpret my opinions as the ultimate truth.

Alas, I am mere mortal (and not very smart at that). Any opinion I express is liable to be flawed.

[New Iskander]

Yet you can discuss the defamatory lies told about Kerry by the Bush staff and use that as a reason to support Bush. How's that work?No, I see two politicians and all the surrounding camarilla, kicking crazy electoral dance, and try to make up my little mind which way to vote.

Both sides tell lies and both sides hit below the belt to win. I might have my blind spots and I might be too keen about things you don't notice at all.

[Marley23]

Alas, I am mere mortal (and not very smart at that). Any opinion I express is liable to be flawed.
The particular flaw here is that the statements are unsupported nonsense. Do you care to correct that flaw at all?

[PatriotX]

I love how you look up to me for guidance and try to interpret my opinions as the ultimate truth.

Alas, I am mere mortal (and not very smart at that). Any opinion I express is liable to be flawed.
Nice parrying

[Merijeek]

Nice parrying

His words to content ratio is pretty impressive, isn't it?

Maybe he and Liberal could have a verbosity-off or something.

-Joe

[New Iskander]

All offended by my contemptuous comments about Howard Dean are welcome to contribute to this debate:

Placating Deaniacs (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6878951)

[rjung]

And that thread is getting slammed for being just as pathethic as this one is. Good show, Isk!

[mhendo]

All offended by my contemptuous comments about Howard Dean are welcome to contribute to this debate:

Placating Deaniacs (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6878951)A piece of advice: self-promotion on these Boards works best when you actually have something intelligent to say.

[New Iskander]

And that thread is getting slammed for being just as pathethic as this one is. Good show, Isk!Such is the cruel Destiny but I shall persevere,
Accursed Fates, will my humiliations never cease?
Like throngs of saber-toothed Harpies... How does the rest of it goes?

[lonesome loser]

Such is the cruel Destiny but I shall persevere,
Accursed Fates, will my humiliations never cease?
Like throngs of saber-toothed Harpies... How does the rest of it goes?

Ever think about retiring?

It is about time you know.

Quit while you are behind.

[Merijeek]

Ever think about retiring?

It is about time you know.

Quit while you are behind.

I'd like to quote Joel's line from near the end of "Mitchell" about 'there comes a time in every killing spree', but that'd probably be against the rules. So I guess I won't.

-Joe, obscure - apparently that makes me deep

[New Iskander]

Ever think about retiring?

It is about time you know.

Quit while you are behind.You can't rhyme.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

New Iskander curses the Fates;
Of harpies and destiny prates.
His threads give him woe
Because, frankly, they blow.
On debates, he's the one micturates.

[New Iskander]

Thank you.