So you want a dominatrix??

[MelCthefirst]

Okay, I thought I was quite open minded when it came to sex - using all available orifices: great, toys: cool, no-strings sex: fine - but the other day I met a guy who is by day a general manager of a middle sized company by night wants dominatrix type sex. That's with pain etc. You could say the classic customer - has power and control through the day but for sex wants someone else to take over, but not only take over, treat him mean and hurt him. For me, hurting someone deliberately is just not a turn on, and sex needs to be fun for both parties - so I'm not going anywhere with him, but it has got me thinking. I really think that this is not a healthy way to have sex - even if it is consensual for both parties and they both enjoy it - I just can't view it as mentally healthy.

[LiveOnAPlane]

Well, I'm with you. I don't know if it is unhealthy or a stereotype, or what.

One thing I do know is when I've been out there doing 70-80 hour weeks, when I get home, I don't want to be dominated, but I sure do appreciate my sweet wifey taking care of me.

And the reciprocal applies. When she hasn't seen me in 2 weeks, we have things to address on my side as well. I go shopping with her, movies, dinners, and a dance. Add in a back rub, head massage, and working on the Honey-Do list.

It's a partnership with both parties giving 110%. I could not imagine any stranger "dominating" me as any sort of turn-on.

The stresses are for sure out there, and diff'runt folk take diff'runt paths to getting their life to work for them. I woouldn't presume to judge these people, but I do think that what they are lacking is a real, true, partner who is right there beside them all of the way...you have that, you don't need much else. (But if you do, the place to start is with your SO, IMHO, not outside stuff)

[deevee]

Yeah my ex gf was into that a bit and it kind of concerned me. I just can't equate sex with pain and anger. We were open minded about everything so I went along as well as I could but it certainly wasn't arousing.

[Ghanima]

I kinda like it.

Some people enjoy a bit of pain with their pleasure. I have been spanked so hard I could barely sit down for a few delicious days. Every time I felt it, it reminded of the scene we had played and got me all excited again. Some people disapprove of taking it that far but I feel as long as it's consensual and controlled it's nobody's business.

Now that I'm older, I find myself assuming the "top" role. I kind of consider those years of being a bottom as training for how to be a good top, and how to hurt someone in a very nice way. :)

[Sage Rat]

So long as both people are into the kink, adults, and consenting, I have no issue.

Certainly it may be a result of psychological damage--but so? Some gay people might like people of the same sex because of psychological (rather than genetic) reasons--and yet most dopers couldn't care the slightest. The only difference being that homosexual sex is more respected than BDSM by most dopers.

[Roderick Femm]

Certainly it may be a result of psychological damage--but so? Some gay people might like people of the same sex because of psychological (rather than genetic) reasons--and yet most dopers couldn't care the slightest. The only difference being that homosexual sex is more respected than BDSM by most dopers.Psychological damage? A cause of people being gay? I know it's not precisely what you said, but it is strongly implied by the juxtaposition.

Please stop. In the great question of Why do some things turn you on and others don't?, I think we need to accept that no-one has the answers, even about themselves, even when they think they do. And especially not about someone else.

[Sage Rat]

Psychological damage? A cause of people being gay?
In instances that aren't due to genetics, which are probably the majority (genetics that is.)

Most pedophiles also engage in homosexual sex, while as only 5% (or so) of the non-pedophilic population is turned on by homosexual sex. So either pedophilism and homosexuality are linked (which I don't believe) or being raped by a man as a child can cause you to (as an adult) be more likely to find comfort in the arms of other men and children (which i do believe.) True, this wouldn't be a technically "gay" person, but as there are no specific terms to differentiate between genetic and non-genetic homosexuality--it's the only word I have to use.

[clairobscur]

Most pedophiles also engage in homosexual sex, .


Huh? I want evidences for that...

[clairobscur]

Yeah my ex gf was into that a bit and it kind of concerned me. I just can't equate sex with pain and anger.


Why anger? Anger is a feeling which is essentially foreign to me (I'm angry...err...last time was some years ago, I think), and nevertheless....

[Roderick Femm]

In instances that aren't due to genetics, which are probably the majority (genetics that is.)

Most pedophiles also engage in homosexual sex, while as only 5% (or so) of the non-pedophilic population is turned on by homosexual sex. So either pedophilism and homosexuality are linked (which I don't believe) or being raped by a man as a child can cause you to (as an adult) be more likely to find comfort in the arms of other men and children (which i do believe.) True, this wouldn't be a technically "gay" person, but as there are no specific terms to differentiate between genetic and non-genetic homosexuality--it's the only word I have to use.This is so wrong on so many levels.

First, may we have a cite if you are going to claim that homosexuality is genetic? In my ignorance I was not aware that this is a generally accepted scientific fact.

Second, may we have a cite for "most pedophiles also engage in homosexual sex"? Are you claiming that most pedophiles are men who go for boys? I would like to see some evidence for that, evidence that includes at least a reasonable estimate of unreported inter-generational male-on-female incestuous rape, and that is not just a list of wacko jacko show trials.

I would also like to see some evidence, if you have any, that being raped as a child will "turn" a man into someone who isn't gay but somehow gets off on sex with men.

Really, this is seriously twisted stuff you're putting out there.

[Sage Rat]

Huh? I want evidences for that...
I fear even trying to google for it, but will try. (Putting "homosexuality pedophiles" just doesn't strike me as a pair likely to come up with anything rational anywhere in the first 200 pages.)

At this moment I am basing my statement on random interviews with convicted non-snatcher type pedophiles. At least half commented on having homosexual relationships to varying degrees. Of course these were non-snatchers so most weren't primarily gay--usually having married a woman with children. But if you see a man who asks you to whip him like his mom used to whip him, and then you see a gay man who specifically only likes much older or much younger men plus some dom/sub mixed in.... Of course the young-old thing now seems to have become part of gay-culture so it may no longer be an indicator.

I realise that this is a hot topic and that saying "not all cases of homosexuality have to be due to genetics" is not something that is going to be met with much favor on either side (since one can't allow any to have been, and the other requires all) but all evidence I have seen--and me not caring two fiddles one way or the other--points to both occuring.

[Sage Rat]

Regardless of what your personal desire is for how people come to be gay, if two people love each other, that's their deal. And if a dom and a sub say they love each other, then that's their deal too. And that is the only point I intended to make in this thread and did not think I was making any other one given as no objections have been raised to the idea of multiple possible causes to heterosexuality in other threads of bygone years.

If anyone wants to start a GD thread then fine, but otherwise this is all off-topic to this thread.

[Sage Rat]

heterosexuality
I meant to say homosexuality of course, but I wouldn't disagree with the sentence as it stands.

[Padeye]

Yeah my ex gf was into that a bit and it kind of concerned me. I just can't equate sex with pain and anger. Who in blazes ever said that healthy consensual sex should be equated with anger?

I think part of this misconception comes from the typical vanilla perspective of BDSM which stereotypically is a stressed male executive going to a professional dominatrix so she can beat the shit out of him/relieve his stress. Perhaps a sexual relationship based on prostitution isn't the most healthy example we could find.

A healthy BDSM relationship between equal partners is vastly different. It is all done for the pleasure of both parties. There is negotiation about what is allowed and what is not. The sub always has the option to stop play at any time for any reason. You may have heard of special safewords couples use which can't be confused with anything else but with good communication safewords are rarely used. A joke in the BDSM community goes that someone's safeword is "beat me harder."

Pain is a tricky thing to define. Many of you hear that word and don't place it in a context. Healthy people don't take belt sanders to their partner's kneecaps. Start with something simple. How does it feel to have your partner give your nipple a playful little bite. Kind of a thrill huh. We've determined that pain can be good, now just negotiate how much is still fun.

[Paul in Qatar]

Then the discussion went off the track. It flipped three times, destroyed a fruit stand and burst into flames.

It burned for three days.

[Anaamika]

We've determined that pain can be good, now just negotiate how much is still fun.
A very good point, and worth repeating.

It always amazes me that people will come into a thread about sexual likes/dislikes and say "I just don't get..." well, you don't need to, do you? If you're not into it, that's cool, but there's nothing to get. Sexual desires are awfully basic and sometimes you can't change what you like.

[saoirse]

A very good point, and worth repeating.

It always amazes me that people will come into a thread about sexual likes/dislikes and say "I just don't get..." well, you don't need to, do you? If you're not into it, that's cool, but there's nothing to get. Sexual desires are awfully basic and sometimes you can't change what you like.

MelC was looking for something in the way of an explanation. I think that's fine, but I don't see the need to pathologize things you don't like. It's not my cup of meat, but if I squint and turn my head sideways I can kind of see the attraction.

[Anaamika]

MelC was looking for something in the way of an explanation. I think that's fine, but I don't see the need to pathologize things you don't like. It's not my cup of meat, but if I squint and turn my head sideways I can kind of see the attraction.
I was sort of responding to this:
I just can't view it as mentally healthy.

[deevee]

Who in blazes ever said that healthy consensual sex should be equated with anger?
.

My ex gf. She would state that she had stress and anger to work off then would get into states that to me went beyond simple role playing. That's when my libido would shut down.

I once had my ass spanked at a sex show. I did it on a lark when one of my group offered to pay the ten dollar fee if I would get up on the stage and have it done. It stung like a bitch and the only thing I enjoyed about it was strangers approaching me later saying they saw me on stage and how I had guts.

[missbunny]

I really think that this is not a healthy way to have sex - even if it is consensual for both parties and they both enjoy it - I just can't view it as mentally healthy.


There was a time when people said the EXACT same thing about other people who engaged in oral sex. Something about it not being "normal."

Anyway, a dominatrix might not be your thing but this other guy says he enjoys it so there must be something that is pleasurable to him about it. Nerve endings are nerve endings: sometimes certain pains feel good. You probably have noticed this yourself at one time or another, when having an intense itch and then scratching the hell out of it, to the point of pain. But it felt gooooood, didn't it?

Also, for the benefit of persons who be unaware: not all dominatrixes are prostitutes. In fact, I'd guess most of them aren't. (Meaning, they don't have sex with their clients nor do they actively try to get them off.)

[MelCthefirst]

Well, having a background in psychology, I tend to want to know more about motivation and mental health. There are lots of things that people do that give them pleasure, but it doesn't mean that their motivation is always mentally healthy.

[Sierra Indigo]

By being completely dominated, control is taken out of his hands - he has to control things all day as a VP (I have no cite, but I recall reading a book written by a former london dominatrix [who, like most professional dommes was actually not a prostitute] where she states that some ridiculously high figure, like 95%, of her clients were in positions of 'authority' - VPs, cops, MPs etc). When he unwinds, he wants someone else to be the boss, to tell him what to do and to make him do it. He can do all the dirty, depraved things that a lot of people really want to do but are too squeamish to, and it's okay because she "made" him do it.

Then you get into the pain. People whitter on and on about that damnable "runner's high". There's also a kind of high a sub (or any person) can get when there's pain play involved. You're hurt, your body releases endorphins. So you've got the natural rush of sexual excitement, topped with a heady buzz of endorphins released when your butt was paddled to stinging. It's a very, very potent combination.

[Idlewild]

My orientation as far as preference toward domination/submission in the bedroom seems to be either hardwired or rooted so far in early childhood I can't remember. It's always excited me. I know that's a sample size of one but it's as much a part of my built in sexual orientation as to what extent I prefer to be with a male or female partner. And frankly, not to drag this into pit territory, I really find it somewhat offensive to hear that you "just can't view it as mentally healthy." Now, the depression that runs in my family and leads to suicidal ideation and other nasty, nasty outcomes is mentally unhealthy. Liking to tie up or be tied up is just fucking dandy compared to that, thank you very much.

Sexuality is whacky and very, very personal to each human being. I go with the safe, sane, and consensual mantra, and have pretty hard limits on who is capable of giving consent, for that matter. After that, I suppose there's no reason I should give a damn that somebody else finds my kink weird. It's not something for which I can explain a motivation since, as I said, it seems to be wired in. I try and extend the courtesy of not judging other peoples' kinks as I'd rather mine not to be judged and leave it at that.

[MelCthefirst]

My orientation as far as preference toward domination/submission in the bedroom seems to be either hardwired or rooted so far in early childhood I can't remember. It's always excited me. I know that's a sample size of one but it's as much a part of my built in sexual orientation as to what extent I prefer to be with a male or female partner. And frankly, not to drag this into pit territory, I really find it somewhat offensive to hear that you "just can't view it as mentally healthy." Now, the depression that runs in my family and leads to suicidal ideation and other nasty, nasty outcomes is mentally unhealthy. Liking to tie up or be tied up is just fucking dandy compared to that, thank you very much.

Sexuality is whacky and very, very personal to each human being. I go with the safe, sane, and consensual mantra, and have pretty hard limits on who is capable of giving consent, for that matter. After that, I suppose there's no reason I should give a damn that somebody else finds my kink weird. It's not something for which I can explain a motivation since, as I said, it seems to be wired in. I try and extend the courtesy of not judging other peoples' kinks as I'd rather mine not to be judged and leave it at that.

If we don't look at motivation, we learn nothing about human behaviour.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

It always amazes me that people will come into a thread about sexual likes/dislikes and say "I just don't get..." well, you don't need to, do you? If you're not into it, that's cool, but there's nothing to get. Sexual desires are awfully basic and sometimes you can't change what you like.
This is generally my attitude. I don't have to like something in order to shrug and say, "Hey, whatever." As long as y'all are consenting adults, feel free to roll around in each other's feces or whatever works for you. Id on't have to be part of your scene.

But my wife recently told me about a new trend in cosmetic surgery: women getting hymen reconstruction surgery as an anniversary present for their husbands. And my god, but that squicks me out.

Daniel

[Idlewild]

You can learn about human behaviour without generalizing in a fashion that is bound to be quite hurtful to a number of people. Really, you can. Broadbrushing that you think behaviour you admittedly don't understand is mentally unhealthy may not be the best approach to learning more about the subject.

[MelCthefirst]

You can learn about human behaviour without generalizing in a fashion that is bound to be quite hurtful to a number of people. Really, you can. Broadbrushing that you think behaviour you admittedly don't understand is mentally unhealthy may not be the best approach to learning more about the subject.

I think you may be trying to be too PC - I'm not trying to be hurtful, but I think the underlying motivation for wanting to be dominated and hurt may not be a healthy thing. Like I said, just cause it's pleasurable doesn't make it healthy. I'd like to know that those who do this type of behaviour are otherwise successful, happy people - my suspecions are that they are not.

[Anastasaeon]

I am a happy, successful person. Everything in my life is the way I like it, and want it. I will be continuing my education soon to be become an architect. My IQ is high (but just a number, however, I'm certainly not dumb as a doorknob). I am stress-free, and maintain a happy, pleasant household. I am happily married to a man who I know adores me, and I him. We are beyond financially stable, we are worth several hundred thousand dollars right now. Not mega-rich, no, but certainly not poor. I paint and sculpt in my spare time, I like to knit, crochet, and bead... I'm learning to sew.

I'm also a sub. I love to dominate sometimes, too. The play, the fantasy, the hurt, the pay off, it's all so delicious. Anticipation - not knowing if I will receive pleasure or pain. I love it. Dressing up in leather, or vinyl? Heels, chains? So fun, so sexy! Why is it sexy? Probably becase I associate those things with sex, as tools. Like vibrators or other sex toys, they are the props that signify the fun is about to begin!

I had a happy childhood. I was never beat. My parents never divorced and are still hppy together today. No drinking, no drugs. I drink sometimes, and my parents know it, they just ask that I be responsible. I wasn't overprotected, nor was I underprotected. I had a couple of bad, life-lesson type relationships, however, I was like this before those relationships. I've always been like this, since I discovered my own sexuality.

To each their own, I say. My thoughts on vanilla sex? They must be severely repressed. They don't know what they're missing. ;)

[Giant_Spongess]

I'm going to have to pipe in and say, it's just the way it is. Are men who like it when their wives dress up in babydoll outfits secret pedophiles? Were women who have a thing for guys in uniform molested by policemen at a very young age? Are people who like anal really just closet fecophiles?

The answer is, of course, not usually. Like Soylent Green, tastes vary from person to person. Stop trying to infer a deep dark secret motivation into a behavior that you don't understand, MelC. I'm not trying to be insulting, but your assumptions are broadcasting your ignorance. If you aren't too squeamish, read Different Loving, (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679769560/qid=1135325276/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/104-8252920-7042301?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) which explores this type of urge pretty thoroughly. If you can't be bothered, though, feel free to take our word for it.

[missbunny]

I think you may be trying to be too PC - I'm not trying to be hurtful, but I think the underlying motivation for wanting to be dominated and hurt may not be a healthy thing. Like I said, just cause it's pleasurable doesn't make it healthy. I'd like to know that those who do this type of behaviour are otherwise successful, happy people - my suspecions are that they are not.

I understand that you just want to know why people like this stuff. But you've got to remember: for every practice you think is weird or mentally unhealthy, there's something else that YOU do (sex-related or otherwise) that someone else thinks means you yourself are in immediate need of a psychiatrist. If you think about it long enough, you will come up with something that you think is perfectly normal, or maybe a little unusual but "not that bad," and someone else is making the same assumptions about you - that you must be mentally ill to enjoy such things - as you are about people who like to visit a dominatrix.

I guarantee you that LOTS of people who are into bdsm are happy and successful. In fact you probably know lots of people who are into it to some extent; they just haven't told you their private business.

I would also recommend reading Different Loving if you want to get more information on the subject.

[ms.deanna]

Okay, I thought I was quite open minded when it came to sex - using all available orifices: great, toys: cool, no-strings sex: fine - but the other day I met a guy who is by day a general manager of a middle sized company by night wants dominatrix type sex. That's with pain etc. You could say the classic customer - has power and control through the day but for sex wants someone else to take over, but not only take over, treat him mean and hurt him. For me, hurting someone deliberately is just not a turn on, and sex needs to be fun for both parties - so I'm not going anywhere with him, but it has got me thinking. I really think that this is not a healthy way to have sex - even if it is consensual for both parties and they both enjoy it - I just can't view it as mentally healthy.
Maybe some of these successful business think of it as atonement for fucking people over on the way up the corporate ladder? I mean , they have it all, power, money, and influence. The love of a good woman would just be much for their greedy asses to handle, emotionally. because if a good woman knew half the shit these guys were into, they would'nt piss in their ear if their brains were on fire. ooh is there a market for that , too?

[ms.deanna]

[QUOTE=MelCthefirst]Okay, I thought I was quite open minded when it came to sex - using all available orifices: great, toys: cool, no-strings sex: fine - but the other day I met a guy who is by day a general manager of a middle sized company by night wants dominatrix type sex. That's with pain etc. You could say the classic customer - has power and control through the day but for sex wants someone else to take over, but not only take over, treat him mean and hurt him. For me, hurting someone deliberately is just not a turn on, and sex needs to be fun for both parties - so I'm not going anywhere with him, but it has got me thinking. I really think that this is not a healthy way to have sex - even if it is consensual for both parties and they both enjoy it - I just can't view it as mentally healthy. Maybe some of these successful businessmen think of that shit as some sort of twisted atonement for fucking people over on the way up the corporate ladder? I mean, they have it all, power, money, influence. The love of a good woman would just be too much for their greedy asses to handle. If a good woman knew half the shit these guys were into, they would'nt piss in their ear if their brains were on fire. Ooh, is there a market for that , too?