More Frequent Pitting Miles for Pat Robertson/700 Club

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

There's one TV in my house from which I haven't deleted the (numerous) religious channels from the auto-detection.

Watching it this morning, I stumbled upon Pat in all his 700 Club glory, so I decided to see how long it would take him to prompt me to throw things at the TV. Not the most fun game, but hey...I was bored.

He was rambling on about a housewife and mother who had been struggling to manage her family's debt while her construction-worker was recovering from an injury. But then she "made an investment that would change her and her family's financial future".

So they cut to footage of this woman explaining how things were tough, living week to week and month to month and sometimes having a hard time buying groceries, etc. They got by while her husband was injured the "only way they knew how", but maxing out their $6000 worth credit. Even after her husband recovered enough to start working agian, work was scarce and they were stuck making minimum payments and watching their balance remain the same, etc.

She then went on to recall that during periods when they were tithing regularly, they "always seemed to make it through". And one day, while watching a 700 Club telethon, she was "compelled" to make a $20/month pledge, even though they didn't have rent.

Then, "suddenly, a whole year after her husband's accident", they received a settlement letter in the mail, which was soon followed by a $10,000 settlement check with which they were able to pay all of their debts. Since then, they've been able to stay on top of their bills and continue to tithe and contribute to the 700 Club regularly.

Blah blah blah, etc, etc.

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!

:dubious: Hmmm...maybe you were able to both tithe and "make it through" during those times for the same reason...more disposable income?

And have you ever noticed how settlements aren't often reached in a timely fashion? No...obviously God was stalling the settlement because you hadn't been contributing enough to be a Christian worthy of His fickle good graces.

The whole fucking racket of "God taking care of you if you tithe" just makes my skin crawl.

Seriously.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

It's little different from the indulgence-selling that instigated the Reformation 500 years ago (or so- pardon me if I don't look up the date). It never changes. Some people think they're better off, or in some cases just plain better, than others if they give money to a church. If that's what floats your boat, that's great, but it's one of the reasons why I don't go to church anymore, because of this un-Christian smugness that goes along with it.

Whattayagonnado? In the future, I would advise you to ignore Pat Robertson at all times. He is probably one of the least Christian Christians I have ever seen.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The really predatory thing about it is that the piece was obviously intended as means to manipulate people who are already destitute to give their rent money to Pat Robertson. Truly, truly despicible.

[asterion]

Indulgences? As in, good old "split from the Catholic church" type indulgences?

[betenoir]

Sad to say, while death threats and gloating over strokes are time-to-time things, he basically does a piece like that on EVERY SINGLE SHOW. As of course, that's the point of the show to begin with.

[kaylasdad99]

Indulgences? As in, good old "split from the Catholic church" type indulgences?Yup, those. Same type of protection racketeering going on.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Somebody needs to find these people and interview them a year after they receive their bounty from god. I'd bet they're probably back in the hole again.

I wonder if the show's credits lists the names of these people.

[John Mace]

The really predatory thing about it is that the piece was obviously intended as means to manipulate people who are already destitute to give their rent money to Pat Robertson. Truly, truly despicible.
I bet it works, too. And since most people are able to eventually improve their circumstances, he's got a ready supply of witnesses to the miracle of giving. This guy belongs in a carny midway.

[stpauler]

And have you ever noticed how settlements aren't often reached in a timely fashion? No...obviously God was stalling the settlement because you hadn't been contributing enough to be a Christian worthy of His fickle good graces.
I work for an insurance company and can vouch that we won't settle a claim until The 700 Club has been paid. True story.

By the way, HIPAA doesn't affect Pat Robertson as he can get all of your health records straight from God, too.

The more ya know ;)

[Blalron]

So they cut to footage of this woman explaining how things were tough, living week to week and month to month and sometimes having a hard time buying groceries, etc. They got by while her husband was injured the "only way they knew how", but maxing out their $6000 worth credit.

:smack: What ever happened to workmans comp? Or have the Republicans gotten rid of that already?

[saoirse]

I work for an insurance company and can vouch that we won't settle a claim until The 700 Club has been paid. True story.

By the way, HIPAA doesn't affect Pat Robertson as he can get all of your health records straight from God, too.

The more ya know ;)

Wow. whenI worked for an HMO I got the distinct impression HIPAA applied to God, too.

[Larry Mudd]

This reminds me of something juvenile I did for a cheesy art-noise radio show I used to be involved with in the eighties:

I took a thirty second infinite-loop audio cassete and filled it up with the hypnotic, soothing suggestions of a local radio preacher:

"Consider every dollar you earn a personal loan from God... Sign each cheque with prayer... God wants you to get out your cheque-book now..." etc.. Played it for an hour block. (Community radio, so nobody cares... but I still like the idea of people tuning through the stations and stumbling on that... WTF? :D )

Those venal jerks can be pretty blatant when they're fleecing their flocks.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Yup, those. Same type of protection racketeering going on.
That's the way it is with [God]1. He gets his money no matter what. You got no business? Fuck you, pay me. You had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. The place got hit by lightning and World War Three started in the lounge? Fuck you, pay me.



1The movie doesn't really say "God." Its says, "...a wisegy partner..."

[Good Egg]

I have heard that crap, also. You can't expect to ever be blessed by God unless you tithe. Even if you can't afford to, etc. Seed money and all...

[Sampiro]

I honestly think this is one reason I waver between agnosticism and atheism today. I was a fairly devout Christian growing up (never a fundamentalist- always had problems with the virgin birth and such- but I believed in Jesus as the Messiah). When I was a teenager and things were desperate- no money, alcoholic mother, crazy aunt peeing and talking to dead relatives all day (often at the same time), struggling with gay issues, etc., I remember Jim Bakker going on and on about this type of stories. I can't believe I was ever that stupid and simple, but I sent him all the cash I had- about $10- with the request it be used for his foster home for abandoned (what we would now call) special-needs kids, and hoped it would "reap fruit".

Not only did we not get $300,000 by carrier pigeon like the people on his show, but after he and Tammy Fay were sent into exile (this was years later), an expose on the PTL empire revealed that the home for special needs foster kids, which was a beautiful huge neo-Victorian style house built for 3 dozen or so kids in wheelchairs and iron lungs and burn scars and the like but with an indoor pool and trained counsellors and the -a truly wonderful idea for a place- had at one time housed three kids. That was its highest occupancy ever. Then it closed when the money was reapplied to the hotel and amusement park.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent if not always practical person, and I fell for this. When I think of how many people more desperate than we were, how many ancient people on $400 monthly incomes who couldn't afford to eat in a restaurant or have a telephone or whatever, how many religious girls being molested by their fathers or single mothers with eviction notices sent in widows mites that went into the chair moulding in a 'Holy Opryland' style hotel suite or to air condition Jim and Tammy's doghouse or to keep Jessica Hahn from talking it just makes me want to hurl. Tammy Fay has made something of a good graces comeback in the media in recent years as a "really decent person who was the first talk show host to have an openly gay HIV+ person on and was a self-medicating anxiety victim and she went through total hell before and after the fall yadda yadda" I still remember those rocks she wore and the fleet of luxury cars she drove and the scenes of her 2,000 square foot walk-in-closet and I just can't raise any sympathy for her. I have no problem with Dolly Parton owning a house the size of Biltmore or Tom Cruise flying a plane that costs more than the whole Ecuadorian air force because their money comes from money people spend willingly on entertainment, but people went without so that these people could live in unbridled sybarism and stop just short of building huge statues of themselves on the Nile.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack.

[asterion]

Yup, those. Same type of protection racketeering going on.
That's an awfully nice soul you've got there. Be a shame if there was an...accident.

[Paul in Qatar]

Ever read the Shortest Book in the Bible (Bel and the Dragon)? Same sort of thing. It reads like Pledge Week on PBS, only with a dragon.

[Larry Mudd]

Anyway, sorry for the hijack.Hijack, my eye.

Testify!

[FriarTed]

Ever read the Shortest Book in the Bible (Bel and the Dragon)? Same sort of thing. It reads like Pledge Week on PBS, only with a dragon.


And a Bel *G*

Actually, in Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Bibles, Bel & the Dragon is part of Daniel.
Only in Protty Bibles that have the Apocrypha is it a separate book.


In Evangelical-Fundist circles, we hear tithing/giving>financial breakthrough
testimonies all the time. And tithing is usually encouraged. However, most ministers/churches encourage good sense if one is in completely dire straits.


Sampiro- what was the name of the little boy Jim & Tammy used to raise money for that house? Kevin? Yeah, I was a daily watcher back then. They only got $10 out of me & I was in college, but at least I have Tammy Sue's album in exchange for it.

[Siege]

Folks, will you allow me to recommend The Trinity Foundation (http://www.trinityfi.org/) to you? They're a bunch of devout Christians down in Houston who started out as Christian broadcasters themselves and monitors of Christian broadcasters. They didn't like what they saw. Their mission is now investigating and exposing televangelists and it has been for over 20 years now. They also run a homeless shelter. They also have ways of reporting it when people have been victims of religious fraud. Some televangelists believe the publisher, Ole Anthony is in league with the Anti-Christ; I believe he's my kind of Christian.

"Love the Lord, your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. " Christians are supposed to think and consider the possibility of deception, not mindlessly give in to authority. If I wanted to, I could probably even draw a parallel to Jesus getting in trouble for picking grain on the Sabbath, but it's too early for that now. I've very little regard for Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, the Bakkers and their ilk. To me, their little more than bottom feeders, preying on their followers sincere faith and hope and turning it to their own profit. At least muggers and thieves don't claim to be asking for money to serve God.

CJ

[Malacandra]

I wonder if Jesus still has his knotted rope handy. The house of prayer seems to have been made a den of thieves again :(

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Atlanta's Creative Loafing Newspaper had an article within the past couple of months where they attended and reported on pulpit messaging at various Metro Atlanta church services. I only read a portion of the article, but it was quite interesting to get a peek at what sort of stuff churchgoing folk are encountering.

I can't seem to find an online copy of the article, and we seem to have tossed or lost our household copy, but when spouting off to my girlfriend about my OP, she said that one section of the article had discussed one particular sermon where the priest/pastor/etc discussed an internal struggle he'd gone through when a member of his congregation had given him a check for her entire life's savings, wanting to donate it to the church. At first he refused to take it, but she insisted. Then he couldn't bring himself to cash it, and had it sitting on his nightstand, untill one day he had a "revelation" that God had intended him to have that check, and that by cashing it he was doing God's work, etc.

It is exactly the sort of thinly veiled justification and rationalization of flat out dishonest, corrupt manipulation that makes my mind boggle at the number of people who choose to participate in such subsections of organized religion.

[Zebra]

Somebody needs to find these people and interview them a year after they receive their bounty from god. I'd bet they're probably back in the hole again.

I wonder if the show's credits lists the names of these people.


The problem is that they would blame themselves.

"Well I sinned so God punished me."

[mswas]

It is exactly the sort of thinly veiled justification and rationalization of flat out dishonest, corrupt manipulation that makes my mind boggle at the number of people who choose to participate in such subsections of organized religion.

I disagree with this particular sentiment. Your assumption is that God DOESN'T work like that. There IS a difference between a man like that and Pat Robertson. If a woman really truly DOES want to give away her life savings for her community, then that is her prerogative.

However, the thing about tithing that I am wondering is, whether or not the 10% is Profit or Gross. I think it should be profit, because that would solve a whole lot of problems. Then poor people wouldn't have a problem of needing to tithe because they are receiving no profit. Also tithing goes back to a time when Churches were genuine community centers, and some still are.

I don't think tithing is a bad thing, and I haven't done it in a very long time, but if I were going to start, I'd do it through charities that I have researched thoroughly.

In a way being mad at Pat Robertson for preying on stupid and gullible people is like being mad at a Cheetah for taking down the weak Wildebeast. It's the way nature goes, there are predators everywhere. Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to get anywhere, because people like many in this thread judge all Christians based on the actions of Pat Robertson. Not all sheep are wolves just because some wolves wear sheeps clothing.

Erek

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I fail to see much of a difference between Pat Robertson's call for donations and the individual from the Creative Loafing story. I might be able to see a difference if the story of the life's savings check had come from a one on one interview or something like that, but it was from a sermon delivered to his congregation. Even if the story was not intended to prompt more generous donations, I feel it was an irresponsible choice of a sermon topic due to the chances of it being interpreted as such.

I was also clear, I feel, in narrowing the scope of this pitting to the "subsections of organized religion" that operate via calling for and attempting to manipulate their followers into donating no matter what, generously, and repeatedly.

[coffeecat]

I once heard one of those creatures--I think it was Robert Tilton--say that if you hear voices, it's demons talking to you and trying to get you, so you should give him money to fight them off. Some poor bastard probably told his psychiatrist that his TV set said demons were after him, and the doctor gave him more Thorazine. :mad:

[dnooman]

I've been fortunate enough to have never seen the "$700=no hell" club, but I've seen way too much of the fallout that happens as a result of it's (and other "churches") manipulation of the weakened states of mind of it's targets.

I used to work in a store that sold musical equipment. Lots of churchies came in (many times with HUGE budgets) often on sundays. They wanted the best they could get, at the lowest price possible. So does everyone else. Except, most people realize that goods need to be paid for, and profit needs to be made by the store (the government likes to get paid too).

About %80 to %90 of the problem issues I had when it came time to actually "close the deal", were from people representing churches. This isn't denied credit cards, this is fighting with the clerk about taxes, tithing allowances, and "christian discounts". Apparently tithing is an entitlement, one gets tax breaks, gets to go to heaven, is better than everyone else, and buys a place at God's right hand.

Churches used to be slightly ornate buildings whose clergy and maintenance were paid by donation. Now, they are sprawling megaplexes that seat up to 30,000 people, have AV systems that arenas envy, and produce celebrity "spiritual leaders". How christian. Humble, meek, turn-the-other-cheek types of folks right? I wonder if the money changing kiosks are actually in the temple?


I'm glad that some conservative christians have spoken out against such shady practices. I've never been anti-Christian, but I've become increasingly opposed to what I percieve to be "Christian politics". If you don't like two people of the same sex getting married, or want a suffering person to stay "alive" because you think God considers their suffering part of "his plan", leave it to God to decide and act on it. Where in the bible does it say "keep homos from gettin' hitched" or "keep that vegetable of a person alive artificially, they should die when their organs wear out"

I'm really wanting to see the passage that says "My faithfull, go forth and make others follow our doctrine, not through conversation, but through manipulative marketing of religion, protests of actions against our faith, and legal action against anyone who chooses to act in a manner apart from our beliefs." Lets not forget those in the clergy that threatened a lifetime in hell to those who voted against Bush.

How many years untill the first christian suicide bomber? Don't hold your breath. They're not that committed.

[Larry Mudd]

My mum used to be a very devout churchgoer -- her insistence on giving substantially every week, even when times were hard, was a frequent source of tension between her and my father.

When she was pregnant with me, there were complications -- complications that led to her being hospitalized for some time. After a few weeks, she was pleased when the pastor showed up at her bedside -- until it became clear that the motivation for his visit was to collect the money that she would have put in the collection plate -- had she not been, you know, having a difficult pregnancy.

After that, my parents saw eye-to-eye on donating to the church -- and I think I understand where my innate cynicism comes from.

[Good Egg]

This just in. Robertson apologizes"" for comment on Ariel Sharon's health.

[buttonjockey308]

Dateline SDMB: 700 Club, Robertson painted as crooked, thieves.

Next up: Sky determined by local scientists to be blue.

[Anaamika]

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent if not always practical person, and I fell for this. When I think of how many people more desperate than we were, how many ancient people on $400 monthly incomes who couldn't afford to eat in a restaurant or have a telephone or whatever, how many religious girls being molested by their fathers or single mothers with eviction notices sent in widows mites that went into the chair moulding in a 'Holy Opryland' style hotel suite or to air condition Jim and Tammy's doghouse or to keep Jessica Hahn from talking it just makes me want to hurl.
Jesus, Christ, Sampy, this paragraph made me want to cry.

swampy and sampy - hee hee!

The house of prayer seems to have been made a den of thieves again
This is debatable, of course, but when was it not?