Match Point [spoilers ok]

[Ty Cobb]

I loved the subtle things way certain things are slipped in, like when we first see Chris as a new pro at a ritzy club, reading Dostoevsky and then see him switch to a book of Dostoevsky critiques. Just to tell the observant that he is planning to use this for social climbing, which he soon does.

[Acsenray]

And then when he ends up killing an innocent old lady.

[Acsenray]

... just like Raskolnikov.

[Ty Cobb]

Thanks. Like Crime and Punishment? I missed that, couldn't quite catch the first book title.

I did figure that some of the operas they used also had parallels to the plot. Anyone know about those?

And the play they went to, Woman In White (based on the Wilkie Collins mystery/thriller). I saw how that echoed the themes.

:confused: Did anyone notice who was the character that he confided in on the park bench? Was he mentioned at the end, by the father? I though he was, and that it would lead to the crime unraveling.

[Acsenray]

Did anyone notice who was the character that he confided in on the park bench?

I thought it was his buddy from the tennis-tour days who was still trying to make a go of it. Remember, he ran into him earlier and his friend admired his car.

Was he mentioned at the end, by the father? I though he was, and that it would lead to the crime unraveling.

I didn't notice anything like that.

Of course, there was more obvious stuff, like the luck theme and the extremely lucky bit with the ring. Frankly, I thought that that was going a bit too far.

[Ty Cobb]

Actually, you were expecting that from the first scene, because it looked just like the ball on the net. Although, of course, it was plain we were meant to think that the ring would be used against him, as indeed it would in most conventional crime stories.

[Gozu Tashoya]

Actually, you were expecting that from the first scene, because it looked just like the ball on the net. Although, of course, it was plain we were meant to think that the ring would be used against him, as indeed it would in most conventional crime stories.
And because if it were a tennis match, and it comes back down on your side of the net, well, it's not good for you. I thought that was a nice bit of subversion there.

[Krokodil]

Raskolnikoff killed the innocent old lady as an accidental afterthought. Wilton planned all along to kill Nola's neighbor.

There's an added significance to him reading the Cliff's Notes version: Near the end, as he justifies himself to the two ghosts, he quotes (I think) Sophocles. I believe we're intended to wonder whether he gained this insight from studying Sophocles, or from reading the Cliff's Notes version.

It concerns me that in a lot of movies about Woody Allen's "moral universe," a man's desires and objectives are paramount and the tragic consequences of pursuing them are irrelevant.

[Acsenray]

It concerns me that in a lot of movies about Woody Allen's "moral universe," a man's desires and objectives are paramount and the tragic consequences of pursuing them are irrelevant.

The only other "moral universe" story I can think of is Crimes and Misdemeanors and it seems to me that the point of that movie was that if you are rich enough to avoid the explicit consequences of getting caught, you can find a way to live with your guilt -- i.e., conscience is a comfort for small men and an irrelevance to big men. It seems to me a much deeper cynicism than "the consequences of pursuing a man's desires are irrelevant."

[Let the machine get it.]

I think the theme is exactly as stated in the title and opening narration. That the match point can go either way, that outcomes are uncertain, that the game isn't over until it's over. And this may not be optimistic, but surely isn't pessimistic, much less amoral.
We are brought all the way to the end not knowing if the crime will be exposed or not, and this is very much like real life.
In a caper movie, like The Italian Job, there is a pretty good chance they will get away with the crime, although perhaps not gain by it. In a CSI episode, sometimes the crook will walk away, but the crime team does know he's guilty. In this case, the crime team went through all the same movie scenes we see in every police drama. There is the initial interrogation, where the suspect tries to hide something simple or seemingly minor, and gets caught at it. Then starts to sweat and begins to look too eager to please or offers too much explanation. There's the back and forth among the officers. There's that Aha moment when one gets detective's intuition. This is refuted by someone else, because, as in Crime and Punishment, someone else is accidentally implicated. But he finds a long-shot way around the objections. Only this time he doesn't prevail. But even at the last scene we aren't sure he can't produce another Aha moment. Even Hitchcock had a hard time holding onto that tension until the last scene, instead usually adding an epilogue to clarify something or reveal a factor at work other than chance. Yet chance is real, and seldom explored.

[Acsenray]

We are brought all the way to the end not knowing if the crime will be exposed or not, and this is very much like real life.

My one complaint here would be that the portrayal of the cops was almost like something out of an Inspector Clouseau movie or some low-budget production being showed on P.B.S.'s Mystery. During the cop scenes, I felt like I was being shifted to an entirely different movie.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It concerns me that in a lot of movies about Woody Allen's "moral universe," a man's desires and objectives are paramount and the tragic consequences of pursuing them are irrelevant.
I don't think he sees it that way at all. I think that in Match Point and in the very similar Crimes and Misdemeanors, Allen is lamenting the fact that there is no external justice. All there is is conscience and if you can live with that (or if you don't possess a conscience). I don't think he sees this as a good thing or that he's endorsing the idea that the motvations for crimes are all that maters, I see it as a kind of despairing observation. It's a nihilistic take, not an amoral one.

[Cat Fight]

My one complaint here would be that the portrayal of the cops was almost like something out of an Inspector Clouseau movie or some low-budget production being showed on P.B.S.'s Mystery. During the cop scenes, I felt like I was being shifted to an entirely different movie.

I was under the impression that the cop scenes were part of the big reveal. It was such utter cliche that I began to realize earlier scenes that felt stilted-- e.g. the complete creative void that was whatshisface teaching Nola to play ping pong (even doing the old "Here, let me show you" trick)-- were done so on purpose, perhaps stolen from a generic thriller script. But I could be utterly wrong.

[drm]

I loved the movie but I do have one question that maybe someone could help me out with:

Is there any significance to the specific musical he uses as his alibi? I was going to do a bit of research after the movie but then I forgot the title.

[BobT]

They are seeing "The Woman in White", an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. I don't think there's a parallel, but I don't know the story that well.

[drm]

They are seeing "The Woman in White", an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. I don't think there's a parallel, but I don't know the story that well.

Thanks!

[Cliffy]

like the luck theme and the extremely lucky bit with the ring. Frankly, I thought that that was going a bit too far.

But I think that was the point. He says in the first scene -- hard work is required (and Chris did work hard on killing Nola), but that you also need luck. And he got some.

It concerns me that in a lot of movies about Woody Allen's "moral universe," a man's desires and objectives are paramount and the tragic consequences of pursuing them are irrelevant.

I think you've got this backwards. Chris isn't the hero, he's just the protagonist. I agree with Dio that this is actually a deep cynicism (and also a version of Allen shaking his fist at the sun). Along with Crimes & Misdameanors you can kind of see a similar thing going on in Deconstructing Harry if you're willing to believe it is something other than Allen given everyone the finger. Which I think it is.

--Cliffy

[JeffB]

They are seeing "The Woman in White", an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. I don't think there's a parallel, but I don't know the story that well.The musical is based on the 1860 novel The Woman in White by Wilkie Collins. I haven't read the book, but it does sound like there are some parallels with Match Point. From Bibliomania (http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/12/21/frameset.html) (where you can read the book online):
The Woman in White, a novel by Wilkie Collins, is a mystery narrated by draughtsman and artist Walter Hartwright and various other characters within the tale: most of whom are potentially questionable in what they say (as in Browning's The Ring and the Book). It was published in 1860. The story begins with Walter's late night meeting of the titular woman dressed in white who he rescues from a group of pursuers. Walter goes to work in the service of the selfish and unpleasant Mr Fairlie as a drawing instructor and in doing so meets his niece Laura who strongly resembles the mysterious woman in white. Walter falls in love with Laura, but naturally there is a hitch. Laura does love Walter but is engaged to Sir Percival Glyde. Deceit, love and various unmaskings ensue that explain the strange confinement within an asylum of Anne Catherick. Tense adventures, villainy and gloriously fitting retributions are Collins' remedies.

[vivalostwages]

Just got back from seeing the film. Very well done, and some fine performances. I didn't keep up with the literary and operatic metaphors, but the music certainly seemed suitable for particular scenes.