Hey! I'm workin' here!

[LucyInDisguise]

What? Did you think I was just taking in the sights? Me and my 80,000 pound truck? Or maybe you think I just didn't have anything better to do today than to get in your way?

You there, in the Mercedes! Did you see the sign back there? The one that said 'Trucks Use Left Lane Next 15 Miles'? If you weren't intellectually outclassed by dead sheep you'd be able to figure out that you can flash your lights at me for the next 14 miles and I still won't move over. I'm in this lane because the law requires me to be here. The lanes on the Interstate have been reversed for this 15 mile strech. Pass on the right. Ohhh, so, now you're going to tail gate me. Hmmm. If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to drive an ant's go-cart around the inside of a bottle cap. Your car weighs, what -- maybe 1800 pounds? This truck weighs in at 80,000 pounds. More than forty times heavier. Do you really think you can intimidate me into moving over? You're so ignorant that the elephants at your local zoo throw you peanuts. Well, now that's intelligent! Gonna teach me a lesson by pulling back in just one car length in front of me, huh? Look, the space in front of my truck is there for me to stop in. It is not there for you to drive in. Do you realize that I can't even see your brake lights? If you had to stop fast you'd just be a little speed bump in my life. (Thump - Thump)

And You. Yeah, you in the little red sports buggy, you monstrously ill-mannered, reprehensible, enema-addicted plague upon humanity. Don't be honking your horn at me. Yeah, I know you can probably see okay, but it's raining, and my mirrors are covered with water. Do you think that if your brain cells weren't on the Endangered Species list it might occur to you that maybe I can't see you in my mirrors? Try turning on your headlights. Ohhh, theeeerrrrrre yyyyoooouuuu aaarrrreee. Guess maybe I won't complete this lane change for a minute. Wellllll, come on ... oh for cryin' out loud ... I'm coming up on slower moving traffic and I need to move over. Will you please move? Either move up, or drop back - I really don't care which - just get out of the way! I initially thought that you were a gibbering idiot. Now, I have a much lower opinion of you. Wouldn't clues have more room to fit in your head if you got rid of some of the gobbledygook in there?

Hey, you in the monster SUV. You are a miserably demented grotesque urine-reeking display that makes slugs and other invertebrates look like Nobel Prize winners. Yeah, I know I'm only doing 35mph in a 75mph zone. I know ya'll got four wheel drive. I know you can get better traction than I can. But have you noticed the white stuff? Has it occured to you that you can't stop any better than anyone else on these icy roads? There's 2" of slushy snow on top of ice here and I'd just really rather not witness your wreck. Oooops. Too late.

(This is kinda fun ...)

Ohhh, look at you. What, are you prescient? Or is that little pickup truck equiped with ground penetrating radar? No? Then you lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile. I'm sitting six feet higher than you are, and I can't see far enough over this hill to see if it's safe to pass. Maybe you forgot this is a narrow, two lane road and not an Interstate highway. There might be on-coming traffic in that lane at any moment. That's what those two solid yellow lines and the sign that says 'NO PASSING ZONE' are trying to tell you. Ooops. There is a car coming. No, I'm afraid it won't do any good for me to try to slow down to let you in - that other car will be here before I can slow this truck down by even 5 mph. I guess you're going to have to hit your breaks and fall back in behind me. Sorry I'm only doing the speed limit. Gotta tell ya, you're an inspiration to botched lobotomy patients everywhere.

Ohhh, now that's a cute little manuver. You see an 80,000 truck coming at you at 50 mph and you decide it will be okay to pull out in front of it. Seventy feet in front of it. Did you sleep through your high school physics class? I will use up 70 feet of roadway just getting this thing down to 40 mph. I hope that Honda is really a top fuel dragster in disguise, cause if it isn't, one of us is going to get hurt (let's see, 1500 pound Honda Civic vs. 80,000 pound Kenworth ... nope, don't think it's going to be me). Naw, guess I'll have to lock it up. 102 feet of skid marks from eighteen tires curving into the right hand emergency lane. Missed ya by, well, I couldn't see how close I came to hitting your car. I was kinda busy at the time. But it couldn't have been by much. And you just drive off, secure in the knowledge that you are so dense that light bends around you, and blissfully unaware that you just made me square off eighteen tires. That's eighteen tires that will have to be replaced. At $300.00 each (does not include mounting). That's more than $5400.00 damage to this rig and I didn't even get your insurance information.

And what is this little beauty up to? Trippin' along at 4 mph under the speed limit. Okay, that's cool. Pull out into the hammer lane to pass. Hmmmmm. You seem to have realized that you were going a little slow and have sped up now. Okay, that's cool, too. Pull back into the travel lane behind you. Hmmmm. You seem to be slowing back down to four under again. Pull out into the hammer lane to pass. Hmmmmm. You seem to have realized that you were going a little slow and have sped up now. Pull back into the travel lane behind you. Hmmmm. Four under again. Oh, joy. Another rousing game of 'Don't Let The Semi Pass'. That's alright though. I used to play by your rules, but not any more. Reset my cruise control at 74. Stay in the travel lane. Look at the passing scenery. Ignore the fact that you even exist. Maybe you will wake up the dozy, peg-legged hamster operating that wheel-powered brain of yours and move over. Or speed up and maintain your speed. Or let me pass. Or I will just close the gap and push you up to speed. It don't matter to me. Our relationship is like that of a dog to a fire hydrant. Guess which one you are ...

And here comes the RV from Hell! That thing is nearly as big as my truck! I have to pass a physical exam every two years. I have to take extensive written and skill tests to obtain and maintain my Commercial Driver License. And here you are, a Little Old Retired Insurance Salesman -- you are not required to pass any special test to drive that thing, haven't had a proper physical in years (and you're probably just one order of french fries short of a stroke), you have no clue what the clearances are on your vehicle, hell, you can't even see over the steering wheel. You refuse to drive more than 10 mph under the speed limit. And you have the gall to get upset because I need to pass you on this hill? You are a precociously revolting simple-minded inflictor of misery on all who cross your path.

Let's see, did I leave anyone out?

Oh, yeah. "The Truck Drivers".

Swift. The most inappropriately named trucking company in the universe. (And don't blame the drivers. 10 under the speed limit is company policy.) 'Nuff said.

You in the super car. If he were to look at you, Darwin would NOT be pleased to see how inefficiently evolution sometimes works. I know you're rig can do 100+ mph. That does not mean that it is a good plan to do so. You need not demonstrate for me. I will not be impressed. It will merely confirm my suspicion that when your parents pulled you out of the shallow end of the gene pool, the lifeguard threw you back in. You think you're soooo coool. You're not. You're dangerous. You're so dumb that even blondes tell jokes about you. You deserve to loose your license. Go get a job where you can do something that will impress people. Like trying to become a magician. Then just disappear.

And you, Rookie. The truck in front of you is going just 1 mph slower than you are on this grade. So you look in your mirror, see that there are 14 vehicles doing 75 mph coming up on you. What do you do? You pull out to pass the slower truck. I wouldn't mind if you had the horsepower or the RPMs to get the job done but you don't. Even when you see all that traffic piling up behind you, you can't do the courteous thing and drop back and pull back into the right lane. You're just going to ensure that everybody is going to climb this hill at the same rate that you do, aren't ya? Look, you're less than 2 miles from the summit. Following the slower truck will get you there 1 minute and 15 seconds later. It's not going to kill you. You'll probably waste more time than that at the next truck stop. Sit there. Be patient. Learn to do some math.

And you, pulling the empty flatbed. We're four miles from the base of the hill. You can see the hill coming up. Don't be screaming at me on the CB for cutting you off. Pay attention: there are four loaded trucks jockeying for the best position to climb the hill so that we won't have to keep passing each other and restricting traffic once we start up the hill. Slow down a bit and let me get passed the 2 heavier trucks in front of me. You can regain you speed in a flat minute.

Thank you. That was very therapeutic. There are more, but this is getting way too long.

Okay. The floor is open for discussion and questions.

Go ahead.

Ask the Professional Driver.

If you have the guts.

I double-dog-dare you.

Lucy

[El_Kabong]

OK, that was pretty good. Now, let's hear about all the times you fucked up or got in someone's way while driving. :D

[LucyInDisguise]

OK, that was pretty good. Now, let's hear about all the times you fucked up...
Back in the 'Rookie Days', and even my 'Truck Driver' phase, plenty. That's how you learn. Yet, I'm proud of the fact not once in the last 5 years has anyone 'flipped me off' for being rude or discourteous.

... or got in someone's way while driving. :D
I'm a Professional Driver. It's my job to get in your way! :p

Lucy

[phungi]

You had me on "What" but earned my respect with "Gotta tell ya, you're an inspiration to botched lobotomy patients everywhere."

[LucyInDisguise]

You had me on "What" but earned my respect with "Gotta tell ya, you're an inspiration to botched lobotomy patients everywhere."
::aahhh, shucks::

[bobkitty]

There needs to be a special catagory for logging trucks. The ones who drive 60MPH in the middle of rural roads, and even if they see you coming in the other direction refuse to move over into their lane until the verylastsecondpossible, thereby forcing you onto the gravel-and-grass shoulder and giving you a heart attack.

[Tinkertoy]

Lucy thanks for saying it better than I ever could. It's not my job but my husband's. It scares the hell out of me when I'm riding with him, even though I know he's an expert, when I see some of the shit that happens.
Yet when those four wheeler's break down or have an accident it’s usually the trucker that stops to help. My husband has helped put out cars on fire, called ambulances and stayed with the dead body of a nineteen year old until the police arrived.
Keep up the good work.

[LucyInDisguise]

There needs to be a special catagory for logging trucks. The ones who drive 60MPH in the middle of rural roads, and even if they see you coming in the other direction refuse to move over into their lane until the verylastsecondpossible, thereby forcing you onto the gravel-and-grass shoulder and giving you a heart attack.
These guys (and gals, it should be noted) are, quite literally in a class all by themselves. Have you ever actually driven on one of those logging roads? To do in an old, (possibly) not very well maintained 40 ton truck makes what Evil Knevil did look tame. They garner nothing but respect from me.

That is, 'till they get those damn trucks out into traffic. Then all bets are off.

Something seems to happen to them when they finish with the 'high-wire' part if their act. They seem to forget that they are no longer alone on the road. Give em' a little break and slow down a little when you see 'em coming. I personally think their brains are still vibrating in the joy of making it down the mountain alive one more time and they've temporarily forgoten that there are other vehicles in the area and it's time to share again.

Lucy

[Queuing]

Ok, can you explain to me why big rigs insist on passing each other on a highway that has 2 lanes (or 4 lanes, 2 in each direction) when it takes about 5 minutes for them to do so? Is passing a big rig that is going 105 km/h to go 107 km/h really necessary? You get in my fucking way when you do this, take fucking forever to complete your goddamn pass, why the hell is this necessary?

[duffer]

Swift. The most inappropriately named trucking company in the universe. (And don't blame the drivers. 10 under the speed limit is company policy.) 'Nuff said.


Another thing many don't know is that Swift governs the engines at 57 m.p.h. (Or at least they did when I was driving. They may have bumped it to 62. I think Schneider does it as well.)

Much better rant than I could have ever written. Thanks!


Queuing, your attitude is what causes most of the accidents. Keep it up, when the laws are changed I'll renew my CDL.

[Taber]

Ok, can you explain to me why big rigs insist on passing each other on a highway that has 2 lanes (or 4 lanes, 2 in each direction) when it takes about 5 minutes for them to do so? Is passing a big rig that is going 105 km/h to go 107 km/h really necessary? You get in my fucking way when you do this, take fucking forever to complete your goddamn pass, why the hell is this necessary?

And you, Rookie. The truck in front of you is going just 1 mph slower than you are on this grade. So you look in your mirror, see that there are 14 vehicles doing 75 mph coming up on you. What do you do? You pull out to pass the slower truck. I wouldn't mind if you had the horsepower or the RPMs to get the job done but you don't. Even when you see all that traffic piling up behind you, you can't do the courteous thing and drop back and pull back into the right lane. You're just going to ensure that everybody is going to climb this hill at the same rate that you do, aren't ya? Look, you're less than 2 miles from the summit. Following the slower truck will get you there 1 minute and 15 seconds later. It's not going to kill you. You'll probably waste more time than that at the next truck stop. Sit there. Be patient. Learn to do some math.

it seems th OP is annoyed by truckers who do that too.

[LucyInDisguise]

Tinkertoy, Thanx for the kind words.

My wife has ridden with me twice. The first time she spent 30 minutes in terror before hiding in the sleeper. The second time, she just went directly to the sleeper. Actually, my wife now refuses to even consider the possibility that someday she might ever entertain the idea that someone might suggest that she should ride with me in the big truck again. If someone were to be silly enough to suggest such a thing, I sincerely believe that she would physically attack them.

I once took an airline pilot out for a drive to see if he had what it takes to do this for a living. (He was having health issues - his days as a pilot were numbered.) We went 26 miles from North Salt Lake City, UT to Sandy, UT on I-15 at 2:30 PM (not even rush hour yet!) He asked me to exit the freeway. He called Yellow Cab and went home. Said he thought flying a plane for a living was tough. Air traffic controlers tend to keep other flying things at least one mile away. Four-wheelers seem to think that 30 feet is more than enoungh room. Sheesh ... what a wimp. :D

Curious: does your husband dirve Long Haul, regional or local?

[Queuing]

Queuing, your attitude is what causes most of the accidents. Keep it up, when the laws are changed I'll renew my CDL.

My attitude? You mean the one where big trucks pull out for no apparent reason, into a lane that is meant for faster cars (there are even signs all over the highway that say slower traffice keep right), and take forever to pass? How is this going to cause an accident that is MY fault? I don't tailgate, I don't weave, all I do is sigh, swear and wonder what the fuck the reason is for the actions of the big rigs?

Hey I would love the laws to change, and maybe force the goddamn big rig drivers, who all say stuff like the OP, I am in charge of a giant machine maybe you should watch for me? The responsibilities aren't solely the car drivers, you are in charge of a giant machine, don't do dumb ass things solely to gain a minute or two that pisses off people who can drive much faster then you, and therefore make the roads more dangerous for all who must share them.

That being said I know truck drivers have a rough job, there a lot of idiots out there. Don't try to say none of them are you, or that its all rookies. Truck drivers do many stupid fucking things, one which I have outlined, another I see all teh damn time is inability to stay completely in ones lane. Not just at corners either.

Don't do me any favours, don't renew your licence, don't want to see you on the road anyway.

[Queuing]

Ahh, oops, I somehow skipped that paragraph. Still it sounds to me like that is only on a grad, I am talking about a flat highway where I see this happen all the damn time. Sorry though, seeing this as often as I do annoys me a lot.

[Cowgirl Jules]

Wow, I think I'm in love! Up until the part where you mentioned that you had a wife, that is :D

Yeah, I loved a truck driver once too, and learned a lot of lessons about how to behave around trucks. Too bad more people don't get to sit up there and see what's going on, but then, it wouldn't do much for the truly moronic.

[LucyInDisguise]

Ok, can you explain to me why big rigs insist on passing each other on a highway that has 2 lanes (or 4 lanes, 2 in each direction) when it takes about 5 minutes for them to do so? Is passing a big rig that is going 105 km/h to go 107 km/h really necessary? You get in my fucking way when you do this, take fucking forever to complete your goddamn pass, why the hell is this necessary?
Originally, I was going to just post an "Ask The" thread in one of the other forums. Then I realized that it would probably turn into a pit thread anyway, so I thought, "why not kill two birds ..." as it were. I think your post proves my point.

One of the things that makes life tough, is it is frequently not fair. In a perfect world, there would be three lanes, and this wouldn't be a problem. This is not a perfect world.

So, since there are only two lanes to deal with, the simple answer to your question is, "Yes, it is necessary." Remember - We're working here.

To elaborate further, most of us get paid by the mile. Each mile we turn in any given hour helps feed the family. More miles/hour = More dollars/hour. Simple equation. You'll note, I hope, that most of us watch our mirrors, and we try to time our pass in such a way as to not hold up other traffic. It's not always possible, but we try. However, if a vehicle is overtaking me at a rate that is well in excess of the posted speed limit (10 or more over) it is sometimes not easy to get the hell out of your way.

[Note: As with any profession, we have trainees, rookies (drivers who haven't quite figured it all out yet), Commercial Drivers, and Professional Drivers. Oh, yeah, and yes, we also suffer those few who just plain don't give a shit. I'm going to try to speak for the first group, and ignore those that are just plain bad dirvers.]

Most of the company or line trucks are governed anywhere between 64mph and 68 mph. Governed means the truck is not capable of traveling faster than the governed speed. My truck is governed at 79 mph. The cruise control will only give me 74 mph. That is how I had the truck spec'ed out. If I initiate a pass to get around a truck that is governed at 68 mph, I must plan on having a space that will allow me 1 minute and 7 seconds to complete the pass. If there is no faster traffic for 2 miles behind me, it's not an issue. If a vehicle comes up on me a little faster than expected, I have 5 mph on the pedal available to help complete the pass a little quicker. My truck is an exception to the rule. Most Drivers don't have that option.

The other side of this, the one no one ever seems to understand is this: We are very heavily regulated by law. The penalties can be very severe. I can only drive for 10 hours in any given 24 hour period. If I have to cover 680 miles in that ten hours in order to deliver my cargo on time, and can only manage an average speed of 68 miles per hour, well, you do the math. On a long run, every single second counts.

The nice thing about your situation is that you can recover your speed in a matter of seconds. However, if there is any upgrade in the five miles ahead, I'll do what ever it takes to get around a slower or heavier truck before I get to the hill. If I'm forced to slow down, it could take me 30 minutes to regain my speed. If I slow you down for 30 seconds (or even 2 or 3 minutes), I know it's annoying. but,well, life's just like that. Sometimes you have to wait in line.

Sorry if that sounds a little snippy ...

but you started it.

::waves at Cowgirl Jules::
Thanx! I know, the user name might be just a little deceptive ... Lucy

[SnakesCatLady]

Both my uncle and his son were long-haul truck drivers. I have much respect - and enough sense to know to get out of the way. Like the idiots who leave the gene pool cleaner by trying to outrun a locomotive at a railroad crossing - some people don't seem to realize that in case of a tie, there is no overtime. You LOSE.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Thanks for the entertaining and educational rant. Being well aware that my elderly Saturn wouldn't fare too well in a tangle with a tractor-trailer, I give you guys plenty of room. Even when some asshole tailgates me till he can zip past me to tailgate the truck ahead.

Is it true, if I can't see your mirrors, you can't see me behind you?

[Dolores Reborn]

Beautiful rant! My husband is a local driver (about 150 mile radius), and I hear about this crap all the time.

I'm surprised you didn't mention inattentive cell phone users, though.

[ivylass]

I have flashed lights at semis to let them know it's okay to get over into my lane. Sometimes they acknowledge, sometimes they don't. Should I always flash my lights at them to let them know they can scootch over?

Do you get a kick out of passing a school bus and seeing all the kids waving their hands for you to honk your air horn?

[LucyInDisguise]

Thanks for the entertaining and educational rant. Being well aware that my elderly Saturn wouldn't fare too well in a tangle with a tractor-trailer, I give you guys plenty of room. Even when some asshole tailgates me till he can zip past me to tailgate the truck ahead.

Is it true, if I can't see your mirrors, you can't see me behind you?
Yes, it's true. But that's not even half of the problem.

First, let me point out that just because I can't see you doesn't mean that I don't know you are there. Unless I was day dreaming, I saw you change lanes or come up behind me. And I can probably see the shadow of your vehicle on the ground.

If you are close enough that you can only see one of my mirrors, and assuming that you're paying attention, you'll probably notice that I'm waging my trailer from side to side. It's subtle, but I need to get a better idea of just how far behind me you really are. Difficult to judge with only one mirror.

If you are so close to my trailer that you can't see both of my mirrors, you are way close. You may not feel like you're actually tailgating me, but take a quick look around. Notice that you can not see what's going on even 100 feet up in the lane next to you. You are effectively driving blind. Might as well nail a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood to the front of your car. (That might actually make more sense - the plywood can't kill you cause you'd probably not even start the car.) In an emergency, by the time you see and react to my brake lights, the nose of your car will be under my trailer.

Not only that, you're making me work harder too. Knowing that you can't see much of anything ahead, I have to plan on not only what I'm going to do in an emergency, but how I'm going to get out of your way so that you don't die under my rig. Radical manuvers aren't an option in these rigs, so I must now increase my following distance to give me more room to manuver. This opens up more space for some jerk to jump into because there is an open space. It creates a snowballing effect that becomes increasingly harder to deal with, and can escalate very rapidly.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned here, though it may seem like a contradiction at first: Even though it takes a lot of time and space to get 80,000 lbs. stopped, if you are following too close and an emergency arises, you're gonna be very surprised to find out just how goddamn fast we can stop these rigs. Actually, it happens so frequently that wreck investigators even came a term for this event.

Underride. In the morgue, the injury is usually described as "underride decapitation". Doesn't that bring a pretty picture to mind ...

Think about that the next time you see me waging my trailer at you.

::waves at Dolores Reborn::

Just don't even get me started about inattentive drivers (and especially about inattentive commercial drivers) ... I'm trying hard to clean up my truck driver language ... ;)

[duffer]

Is it true, if I can't see your mirrors, you can't see me behind you?

Oh yes, it is. It's very true. Keep in mind we can't just look over our shoulder out the side window. If you want to know what a blind spot is, try to find someone that will let you sit in the driver's seat of a rig.

I know it can look like a driver is trying to be flashy with a dozen mirrors mounted to the rig, but that's truly the only rear view they have. If it ain't in the mirror, it ain't seen.

[LucyInDisguise]

I have flashed lights at semis to let them know it's okay to get over into my lane. Sometimes they acknowledge, sometimes they don't. Should I always flash my lights at them to let them know they can scootch over?

Do you get a kick out of passing a school bus and seeing all the kids waving their hands for you to honk your air horn?
This is gonna take a minute ...

Okay, during daylight hours, if ya wanna flash your lights, go ahead. We do appreciate it, even though some Drivers may not acknowledge you. Some of our rigs are wired weird and it can be a real challenge to figure out a friendly signal. During the day, for instance, I can only use my hazard lights to thank you. However, this seems to confuse and/or startle some people so I rarely do it except with other Drivers.

At night, on the otherhand, if "flashed lights at semis" means flashing your high-beams or using your FTP switch (same thing) then no. You may dim your lights (momentarily turn off the head lights) but please do not use the high-beams. I'm looking into that mirror and your brights will momentarily blind me - I'm not going to thank you for that. (I blister Drivers on the CB for doing that!)

And yeah, I used to get a kick out of passing school buses and cars with kids doing the air horn signal and hitting the air horn - but I don't do it any more. I startled a rookie bus driver 6 years ago and she damn near lost control and killed all those kids. I wish I could explain that to all the disappointed kids I've seen since then ... funny you should bring it up at this time though ...

Just this week a Driver hit her air horn for a kid while passing through a tunnel near here. Unexpectedly loud in that tunnel -- it startled the kids mom. Six people went to the hospital. Load was a total loss. Traffic shut down for 1 1/2 hours while they cleaned up the mess. Never. even. made. it. into. the. news.

Sad.

::smiles at duffer::

Thanx for your support.
Professional Driver?

[E-Sabbath]

Hey, buuuu-dy. You in the Semi. You know, I _do_ have a top fuel dragster under the 'minivan-thing'. That's how I went from 60 to 110.

Oh. You want to know why? I heard you say to the other guy, "Hey, let's block that minivan-thing in." I don't want to know why. I'm just glad my friend was screwing with his portable CB at the time. You know, this thing is pretty endumacational.

Now, I know that you're a big truck, but this isn't a small minivan-thing. And I have to say, on a light-traffic road, I don't appreciate it when you try to merge into me. It kind of pisses me off. Why do semis do that so much?

[Epimetheus]

I'm a Professional Driver. It's my job to get in your way! :p
Lucy

Hehe, not to have you take this personally, but I sort of figured you truckers had this attitude.

I can understand a lot, but one thing just pisses me off to no end..

When you pass ANOTHER truck, it helps to actually go faster than the other truck....

You know, to pass. If the truck was going so much slower than you that you had to pass, why the hell do you slow down when passing. Other than to piss off the rest of the world stuck behind you for the next 5 miles? (general you of course)

[Epimetheus]

it seems th OP is annoyed by truckers who do that too.

Do'h

[LucyInDisguise]

Hey, buuuu-dy. You in the Semi. You know, I _do_ have a top fuel dragster under the 'minivan-thing'. That's how I went from 60 to 110.

Oh. You want to know why? I heard you say to the other guy, "Hey, let's block that minivan-thing in." I don't want to know why. I'm just glad my friend was screwing with his portable CB at the time. You know, this thing is pretty endumacational. ...
What can I say. Some people, even truck drivers, are jerks.
... Now, I know that you're a big truck, but this isn't a small minivan-thing. And I have to say, on a light-traffic road, I don't appreciate it when you try to merge into me. It kind of pisses me off. Why do semis do that so much?
I'm not sure what your question is with regard to merging, so I'm going to hit this from two angles and try to cover the base that way.

If you are, in fact, asking about merging - that is, a big truck coming up an on-ramp and attempting to merge with faster traffic - we always try to do so safely and courteously. You don't always let us do that, though. Proper highway etiquite dictates that you try to move over or adjust your speed to allow traffic to merge. All too frequently though, you stubbornly sit it that lane, match our speed and refuse to let us in. Our default survival mode at that time is "our 80,000 pound truck trumps your 2000 pound beemer - move it or lose it."

We're working hard, doin' the best we can to get our rigs up to speed. But some bone-head highway engineer decided to design freeways above ground level, instead of below ground level. This means that we're pulling uphill, fighting the weight of the rig and gravity to boot, so getting up to 45 is tough, 55 is damn near impossible, and 65 is out of the question on 85% of the ramps. We try to move over to let you in when ever it is safe to do so, you could at least try to return the courtesy.

If, on the other hand, your are talking about lane changes, see post #16, where I've already addressed that issue. Thank You.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hehe, not to have you take this personally, but I sort of figured you truckers had this attitude.

I can understand a lot, but one thing just pisses me off to no end..

When you pass ANOTHER truck, it helps to actually go faster than the other truck....

You know, to pass. If the truck was going so much slower than you that you had to pass, why the hell do you slow down when passing. Other than to piss off the rest of the world stuck behind you for the next 5 miles? (general you of course)
The 'get in your way' comment was a joke. Or is this a woosh? I'll take the woosh and raise you one ...

I was going to make a smart-assed remark about re-reading post #16, where I've already addressed this issue, then I noticed the "... why the hell do you slow down when passing ... " comment and saw an opportunity there.

Sometimes, especially on a steep grade, it is possible that a driver can miscalculate their ability to overtake a slower moving truck. Or maybe even miss a gear while downshifting. Properly, the Driver should fall back and pull back to the right. If he or she doesn't, they're probably an inexperienced rookie (see my OP), or an incondisiderate asshole.

There is one other possibility. Review in your mind for a moment what your driving has been like in the last 15 miles or so. Were you recently playing "Don't Let The Semi Pass"? We know how to play the payback game (although I won't do it if an innocent party might also suffer). And we're better at it than you are. For those of you who are so inclined, the blade cuts both ways ...

[Guinastasia]

Ever launch a "trucker bomb"?

[LucyInDisguise]

Ever launch a "trucker bomb"?
No.

Never even made one. Find the whole concept disgusting.

And those that do should not only lose their license, but their freedom, too. IMNSHO

[Tinkertoy]

Tinkertoy Curious: does your husband dirve Long Haul, regional or local?

The western 10 states. I'm sure since you're location says Nevada that you've seen plenty of those red and black Montana Express trucks. Hubby's been with them for about 11 years.
I go out with him about 3 weeks a year. Do alright until we hit California, then I hit the sleeper or stick in ear plugs (blocks out the yelling and swearing) and put a magazine in front of my face.

[Guinastasia]

No.

Never even made one. Find the whole concept disgusting.

And those that do should not only lose their license, but their freedom, too. IMNSHO


Ah, good to hear!

Have you ever had to haul double? Those double tractor trailers scare the shit out of me-how can they be controlled?

[ivylass]

Ever launch a "trucker bomb"?

What's that?

[Guinastasia]

What's that?

Basically, truckers are sometimes so overworked they can't even stop at a rest stop to pee. So some pee in bottles. Okay, fine.

But some are lazy asshats, so rather than waiting until they reach a dumpster, or something, they just toss the bottles out of the truck. Hence the term, "trucker bombs."

[LucyInDisguise]

The western 10 states. I'm sure since you're location says Nevada that you've seen plenty of those red and black Montana Express trucks. Hubby's been with them for about 11 years.
I go out with him about 3 weeks a year. Do alright until we hit California, then I hit the sleeper or stick in ear plugs (blocks out the yelling and swearing) and put a magazine in front of my face.
Montana Express. Home of some real pros. Have hubby shout for 'Lucy' next time he's out around the 261 (give or take a hunred miles) and sees a really filthy singled-out tanker. (I spend great deal of my time off-road up on the mines ...)

[way back machine mode]
Back when I used to pull for e. a. miller (Blue Ribbon Beef), had a dispatcher who loved to send me to LA. My dock time was 9:30 AM on Monday morning. Hit Orange at 1:30 AM and put fuel on. Industrial City just 2 Hours away, IIRC. Except that this is LA. Land of the 8 hour commute. Finally got to the dock at 1:45 PM. Had to wait for 9 hours to unload because I'd missed my dock appointment. :mad:

I threatened to quit and do grievious bodily harm to my dispatcher if he ever sent me into the LA Basin on a Monday morning again.

Following week: Industrial City.

I did quit, but, judgement being an even greater part of valor, I passed on the grievious bodily harm bit.
[/wbmm]

[LucyInDisguise]

Ah, good to hear!

Have you ever had to haul double? Those double tractor trailers scare the shit out of me-how can they be controlled?
Yeah. When I get doubled up it's called a supertanker. 9150 gallons liquid load sloshin' down the highway is really fun. :rolleyes:

Actually, the doubles aren't what should scare the shit out you. Watch out for the triples. One half inch movement in the steering wheel = 2 feet of swing in the #3 trailer. One and a quarter inches of movement can flip that #3 trailer. If you're coming up on a set of triples, watch that third trailer. It will tell you a lot about the skill of the Driver. If it's a wobblin' , stay clear, or complete your pass quickly. (Those things scare the shit out of me!)

Doubles are actually pretty easy to control. Frequently to hardest part for me is to remember that the rig is 38 feet longer, especially once I've off-loaded and I'm on the empty leg going home. Can't hardly even feel the thing back there.

[LucyInDisguise]

Basically, truckers are sometimes so overworked they can't even stop at a rest stop to pee. So some pee in bottles. Okay, fine.

But some are lazy asshats, so rather than waiting until they reach a dumpster, or something, they just toss the bottles out of the truck. Hence the term, "trucker bombs."
Actually, you're really close on this one ...

Truth be known, none of us are that overworked. The laws are just way to strict to allow that. Even those that cheat still have the time to take a pee break.

The word you're really looking for here is 'lazy'.

These truckers are just simply too lazy to stop. So, they pee in a bottle. And toss it out the window or leave it where ever they finally do make a stop. Which proves the 'lazy' point. I think it really reflects poorly on our profession. I'm trying to clean up my language so I won't tell you what I think about the individuals in question. Besides, there are ladies present.

Frankly, I just can't see where trying to pee in a bottle while driving an 80.000 lb. truck down the highway is a real safe plan. Hence my earlier comment.

[duffer]

::smiles at duffer::

Thanx for your support.
Professional Driver?

Yup. Well, I was. 7 years driving reefer and flatbed. 600k miles accident free. Not so much as an overweight or log violation. I love to drive, I love to see new places. For all the hassles of grocery warehouses, it was overall worth every mile. I saw just about every part of this country and it was well worth it in the end. Alas, I got married and didn't want to live on the road any longer.

God forbid I ever find myself single again, I'll be right back up there in the good seat. A professional will always love his job, even if he isn't actively doing it.

Keep the wheels pointed in the right direction and be safe on your neverending trip home.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

So, you drivers, are you fans of Kathy Mattea singing "Eighteen Wheels and a Dozen Roses"? Gotta admit, that one's good for putting a lump in my throat

[Cat Whisperer]

Great thread, Lucy. (Ever hear "Weird Al" Yankovic's Truck Drivin' Song?)

My trucker story (for all those who like to tailgate trucks) - I went to school with a former trucker, and he told me about the VW that rearended his truck at a light and got stuck there. He took off from the light dragging her and her car behind him - took him a couple of blocks to figure out what that faint honking was. Nobody was hurt, but the driver of the VW was apparently a little shaken. :D

I think triple trailers are illegal in Canada - I have a vague recollection of hearing that.

So, how do I go about getting an airhorn for my Corolla? People cut me off about as often as they do you, I suspect, Lucy, but the big difference is that I would lose pretty much every round. I want a horn that really gets peoples' attention when they cut me off, not the little wussy beep that I have now.

[duffer]

Frankly, I just can't see where trying to pee in a bottle while driving an 80.000 lb. truck down the highway is a real safe plan. Hence my earlier comment.

One other thing. It isn't always truckers doing this. I know a few, including my uncle, that will do this to keep from stopping for something as trivial as pissing. This is actually an improvement on his part. In the 70's he told me he would load up a 12 pack for the drive to Minneapolis (this was almost acceptable and normal in the 70's).

When he had to releive himself it was into a baggie. Said baggie was then thrown from the window to occasionaly splat on an unsuspecting motorist. All he could think of was the great time he was making. I assume this thinking (not his anymore) is still held by some. In fact I know it is. I've seen it.

Not every piss bottle is thrown from a rig. Get over it. Bad drivers are bad drivers no matter the vehicle.

The big difference? Truckers are under much more scrutiny than four-wheelers. Truckers that shouldn't be driving are quickly found for the most part. The rest of the bad drivers simply swerve past the rig giggling on their way to the next accident.

[duffer]

So, you drivers, are you fans of Kathy Mattea singing "Eighteen Wheels and a Dozen Roses"? Gotta admit, that one's good for putting a lump in my throat


Roll On is a much better song. :)

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Roll On is a much better song. :) Is this the song you mean? (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=17:1303607) Searching the All Music Guide site for the title "Roll On" got 87 separate hits, by a slew of different composers and performers.

[LucyInDisguise]

[snip]... Alas, I got married and didn't want to live on the road any longer.

God forbid I ever find myself single again, I'll be right back up there in the good seat. A professional will always love his job, even if he isn't actively doing it.

Keep the wheels pointed in the right direction and be safe on your neverending trip home.
Alas? I hope you mean that you married "a lass'

I gave up the long haul routine back in '93. Been working local jobs ever since. Get to sleep in my own bed next to mama every night now.

So, you drivers, are you fans of Kathy Mattea singing "Eighteen Wheels and a Dozen Roses"? Gotta admit, that one's good for putting a lump in my throat
Nope. Can't say I've ever even heard of the artist, let alone the song. Keep in mind that I'm a 52 year old grandfather who prefers Led Zepplin to country anything ...
Great thread, Lucy. (Ever hear "Weird Al" Yankovic's Truck Drivin' Song?)

My trucker story (for all those who like to tailgate trucks) - I went to school with a former trucker, and he told me about the VW that rearended his truck at a light and got stuck there. He took off from the light dragging her and her car behind him - took him a couple of blocks to figure out what that faint honking was. Nobody was hurt, but the driver of the VW was apparently a little shaken.

I think triple trailers are illegal in Canada - I have a vague recollection of hearing that.

So, how do I go about getting an airhorn for my Corolla? People cut me off about as often as they do you, I suspect, Lucy, but the big difference is that I would lose pretty much every round. I want a horn that really gets peoples' attention when they cut me off, not the little wussy beep that I have now.
Why thank you. I'm really enjoying myself, thank you very much.
Wierd Al is ... well, wierd. But ya gotta love his work!

Air horn on a Corolla. I'm gonna have to think about that one. :D

[LucyInDisguise]

[snip] Get over it. Bad drivers are bad drivers no matter the vehicle.

The big difference? Truckers are under much more scrutiny than four-wheelers. Truckers that shouldn't be driving are quickly found for the most part. The rest of the bad drivers simply swerve past the rig giggling on their way to the next accident.
Nothing to "get over" really, just stating an opinion about the practice.

And you're certainly right about the "bad drivers no matter the vehicle".

I'm not all that sure about the "Truckers that shouldn't be driving are quickly found ..." part. (bolding added) I do think a lot of them tend to eliminate themselves on their own, one way or the other.

Just sayin'.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Nope. Can't say I've ever even heard of the artist, let alone the song. Keep in mind that I'm a 52 year old grandfather who prefers Led Zepplin to country anything ...
Hey, I'm a 57-year-old bleeding-heart Eastern liberal broad who HATES country music (and likes Led Zeppelin) but she's a damned fine singer and way above the torch & twang average. You ought to check out her "455 Rocket" sometime, too.

And while I have your attention, I've got a gripe about Bad Truckers: an intimidation game. I was doing some serious interstate travelling a while ago, staying right and going with the flow of traffic, leaving safe distances and then some, all that good stuff -- hey, I love my Saturn, but it's no match for the monsters out there. Anyway, this semi comes right up behind me, stays behind me maybe a car length, if that -- all I could see in the rear view mirror was grill, dammit. I couldn't safely pull left to clear the lane for him, either.

The friend riding with me, who does a lot of horse-trailer hauling with her Chevy pickup (boy, you should hear HER rants about crappy drivers who don't understand stopping distances, etc.) said, "Don't speed up, he's just playing a mind game. If you hold your position he'll back off when he gets bored." Sure enough, within a few minutes he'd dropped back to a safe distance.

That happened only a couple of times on this long drive, but it pissed me off royally. I could understand it if I was going slower than the other traffic, but I wasn't.

[Epimetheus]

Sometimes, especially on a steep grade, it is possible that a driver can miscalculate their ability to overtake a slower moving truck. Or maybe even miss a gear while downshifting. Properly, the Driver should fall back and pull back to the right. If he or she doesn't, they're probably an inexperienced rookie (see my OP), or an incondisiderate asshole.

Or they are just one of those people that don't consider the consequences of their actions. I am not, by the way, refering to a truck on a steep grade. I am enough of an understanding guy to realize that in such instances they are not at fault.


There is one other possibility. Review in your mind for a moment what your driving has been like in the last 15 miles or so. Were you recently playing "Don't Let The Semi Pass"? We know how to play the payback game (although I won't do it if an innocent party might also suffer). And we're better at it than you are. For those of you who are so inclined, the blade cuts both ways ...

Well, I am not totally naive, and don't ever, ever fuck with a trucker. I know they communicate with others, and pass on information (like "that red car" is fucking around, lets play a game with him/her). I don't want to travel 10 miles up the road just to be penned in by somebody that is feeling vindictive due to poor driving attitudes.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hey, I'm a 57-year-old bleeding-heart Eastern liberal broad who HATES country music (and likes Led Zeppelin) but she's a damned fine singer and way above the torch & twang average. You ought to check out her "455 Rocket" sometime, too.
I'll check it out as soon as I get the chance ...

[snip] ... And while I have your attention, I've got a gripe about Bad Truckers: an intimidation game.
Yeah. Meeeee toooo. I've never understood why some Drivers would put other people's lives at risk like that. Can't even dream up any good guesses.

Epimetheus, you probably have a good point there. There are a lot of people in these latter days who fail to engage their brains, let alone consider the consequences of their actions.

Someone, somewhere out there said it best. "Some days it just doesn't pay to chew my way through the restraints in the morning."

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Someone, somewhere out there said it best. "Some days it just doesn't pay to chew my way through the restraints in the morning." Ha! That was Emo Phillips (http://cmgm.stanford.edu/~lkozar/EmoPhillips.html): Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps.
(With a tip of the hat to elucidator -- you know why.)

[Jackmannii]

Not every piss bottle is thrown from a rig. Get over it.
Nope, just most of them. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7912464/)

[LucyInDisguise]

Ha! That was Emo Phillips (http://cmgm.stanford.edu/~lkozar/EmoPhillips.html):
(With a tip of the hat to elucidator -- you know why.)
That was fun. Thanks for the link.

[LucyInDisguise]

Nope, just most of them. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7912464/)
Interesting read. I knew it was getting bad -- I seem to be tripping over those damn bottles whenever I get out of the rig -- but I was unaware that it had grown to that level. Wow. I'm even more ashamed of those Drivers. Thanks for the link.

To one and all, Thank you for and intersting day. I've really enjoyed myself. Gotta go grab some chow then log some sack time. 4:00 AM stops by rather early these days (Damn internal alarm clock doesn't have an 'off' switch!)

Will log back in early tomorrow.

Have a Good Night.

Lucy

[Speaking of logs, anybody from DOT out there? Need an official ruling here: Do I need to log all of this as ON DUTY NOT DRIVING time?] :confused:

[Martin Hyde]

Nope, just most of them. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7912464/)

Ah, you seem to be confused. The article you linked doesn't demonstrate at all that most of them are from truckers.

Why did you feel the need to lie?

[LucyInDisguise]

Good morning.

Hope y'all got a good nights sleep.

Okay, boys and girls. Just looking over the thread here. Remember this is, after all, 'The Pit'. Good grief! We haven't even had a drive-by from a Mod telling us to keep it down!

Surely you have other bitches, moans and assorted complaints about Trucks and Truck Drivers. I certainly expected more questions about the more technical side of my profession ...

We need to kick this thing up a notch or two or we're gonna get kicked out of here for having a 'hug & love' fest.

Okay, let me be the first to welcome our next (and apparently dimmest) contestant:

Ah, you seem to be confused. The article you linked doesn't demonstrate at all that most of them are from truckers.

Why did you feel the need to lie?
Okay. Did you read the article in question? I mean actually read it? Ya know, like, all the way to the end? Did you notice that there were two pages? Perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions. Let me rephrase it in a little simpler fashion so your mind can grasp the concept I'm trying to understand:

Can you read?

Maybe your browser got stuck? Or you nodded off? Pehaps you were too lazy to scroll down past the "Click for related content" bar? It might be that you got confused by this one paragraph:
They are trucker bombs, plastic jugs full of urine tossed by truckers, and even non-truckers, who refuse to make a proper potty stop to relieve themselves.

Since you seem to be incapable of reading for content, let me explain that this one paragraph suggests that there are some sources other than truckers. The other 95% of the article is about 'Trucker Bombs' and what various state agencies are trying to do about the problem.

It should be clear, to anyone with an I.Q. higher than that of an average potted house plant, that, indeed, most of these things come from truckers who are to lazy to walk to a restroom.

Hence the name: "Trucker Bombs" [as opposed to "and even non-truckers' bombs"]

My apologies to any average potted house plants who may feel offended by the above analogy.

Lucy

[Muffin]

If you are so close to my trailer that you can't see both of my mirrors, you are way close. You may not feel like you're actually tailgating me, but take a quick look around. Notice that you can not see what's going on even 100 feet up in the lane next to you. You are effectively driving blind. Might as well nail a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood to the front of your car. (That might actually make more sense - the plywood can't kill you cause you'd probably not even start the car.) In an emergency, by the time you see and react to my brake lights, the nose of your car will be under my trailer.

Not only that, you're making me work harder too. Knowing that you can't see much of anything ahead, I have to plan on not only what I'm going to do in an emergency, but how I'm going to get out of your way so that you don't die under my rig. Radical manuvers aren't an option in these rigs, so I must now increase my following distance to give me more room to manuver. This opens up more space for some jerk to jump into because there is an open space. It creates a snowballing effect that becomes increasingly harder to deal with, and can escalate very rapidly.Kudos for a very good rant.

As far as tailgaiting goes, add tailgating truckers to the list.

I drive across the top of Lake Superior in a small SUV. The road goes up down and around, up down and around, up down and around; winter storms off the lake a fierce; and most significantly, a lot of large critters (moose, bear, deer) enjoy strolling along the open road, particularly at dusk and overnight. Consequently, I drive for conditions, which when clear and dry for this section of road means travelling at or not much more than the speed limit.

Unfortunately, some none-too-bright truckers don't seem to understand this, and ride my ass. I'm not going to speed up, and if the tailgaiter gets extremely close (e.g. I can't see it's bumper in my mirror), I will simply slow down significantly and wait to be passed (pulling over is only occasionally an option given the narrow erroded shoulders and rock cuts), for I don't want to be the splat mark between a moose on the road in front of me and the truck behind me. Some truckers just don't have a clue about this. Perhaps they are used to driving the multiple lane highways to the south, or the wide open roads of the west, or perhaps they are just plain brain dead from spending too much time behind the wheel driving in the middle of nowhere.

For example, on Friday I drove from Manitouwadge to TBay (about 400km). There have been five trucks wrecked along this section in the last month, and it is not a busy section (e.g. only five vehicles -- all trucks -- pulled up behind me when I had to wait for half an hour in the middle of the day for road repairs). You would think that driving past the impact craters would impart a message, but for some drivers it does not.

While I was driving 5 kph above the limit, a truck was tailgaiting me when we passed a cop sitting behind a snowbank. After we passed the cop, the truck flashed his lights at me, as if to warn me about the speedtrap. The cop caught up and pulled the truck over. Yay cop! I don't know what had been going through the mind of the trucker as he had been tailgaiting me, but I suspect that it was not much. Folks with that level of skill should find another job that does not require intelligence and maturity.

[Contrapuntal]

Okay, let me be the first to welcome our next (and apparently dimmest) contestant:Well, ya gotta understand that Martin Hyde is not compelled to waste too much brain space around here, as we can see from this tasty quote.Also, the majority of this board is nothing but the representation of the worst and most despicable section of America. Degenerates, the mentally ill, the unwashed masses of extreme leftism that are literally a cancer upon mainstream society. The *more* credible I'm held by a bunch of degenerates the worse off I am as a person.
Cite. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7096205&postcount=80)

[Muffin]

Well, ya gotta understand that Martin Hyde is not compelled to waste too much brain space around here, as we can see from this tasty quote.Cite. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7096205&postcount=80)
Is Martin Hyde licensed to drive?If yes, then we have a very good reason to up the requirements.

[ivylass]

Nope, just most of them. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7912464/)

I thought I heard there was some invention out there that would turn the urine into a solid block that could be tossed?

Although, if the article is any indication, there would just be blocks of urine littering the highways instead of milk jugs full of pee, so maybe that's not a solution either.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hi Muffin, thanks for kudos. What flavor are they?

Sorry it's taken so long to compose this.

And, I'm sorry you keep getting those jerks behind you. Please allow me to offer some advice:

When you get one of these rigs tailgating you on a two lane road, the best plan of defense is to simply maintain your speed (allowing for existing conditions). It is possible that the the Driver is following close and waiting for an opportunity to pass you safely. Do not slow down, as this will just aggravate the situation. There is a reason why you don't see us entering these things in the Indianapolis 500: these rigs do not accelerate like Ferraris. It is especially difficult on a two lane road to pass safely from too far back, but the Driver should pass at the first opportunity. Try to keep in mind that the Driver can see a lot further up the road than you can. Also, please note that your definition of a safe opportunity may be very different than ours. I know you wouldn't, but I have seen four-wheelers pass in some of the strangest places.

[Caveat: I'm assuming a fully loaded truck on flat and level ground here. If you are climbing even a gradual grade, it may not be possible to pass you without one hell of a long safe zone. For example: there is a section of U. S. 93 about 26 miles north of Wells, NV, where it can take me six or seven miles to get the rig up even one or two mph higher. Most people think this is some pretty flat ground, only about a 1% grade. (Road surface rises 1' in elevation in each 100 linear feet.) But I'm always doubled up on that run, and at 105,000 lbs, the effect is pretty dramatic. This is where I usually run up behind the "RV from Hell".

Once I get to where I know I'll be able to see about 8 miles of roadway, I'll close the gap. This will take anywhere from 3 to 5 miles to accomplish. When I can see that there are 8 miles of clear roadway I will begin to accelerate for the pass.

From the point of view of the RV driver, I have now been tailgating for 5 minutes - and it will take me 3 or 4 miles or about 4 to 5 more minutes just to get my rig traveling faster than the speed of the RV so that I can initiate the pass. (OG help them if they slow down!)
Other things that affect or delay the decision to initiate the pass:
1. Windspeed and direction
2. Snow, ice, rain, fog, etc.
3. Hi, Opal!
4. Weight and length of load
5. Available horsepower and RPMs

BTW, now, I'm gonna have my ass hanging out in the oncoming traffic lane for the next 4 to 5 miles. At 55 mph, it seems like it takes forever to complete the pass.
If you're ever in this situation, this is the time to back out of it and reduce your speed a little so I'm not hanging out there so long - not while I trying to build momentum to initiate pass.]

If, on the other hand, the driver lets several good opportunities to pass go by and just hangs behind you and continues to play the intimidation game trying to get you to increase your speed, do what I do: continue to maintain your speed, hit the cell phone, call 911 and report them to the nearest law enforcement agency as an aggressive driver. If they do eventually pass after playing this game for a while, grab the name of the company, and a unit number on the tractor or trailer as they go by.

Too many motorists are loathe to do this because they feel it's not a true 'emergency'. It is. If that driver is playing the intimidation game and the rig is less than four seconds back of you, they effectively have a gun pointed at your back. Make the call.

[LucyInDisguise]

Contrapuntal why do I alway read your name as 'carpnal tunnel'?

With regard to the poster you mentioned, well, yeah - that's why I did the into the way I did.

Martin, Martin, Martin ... you seem to attract attention in much the same way a 92 car pile-up attracts rubberneckers.

[LucyInDisguise]

:smack: preview is my friend. preview is my friend. preview is my friend. :smack:

Always. Intro.

[snip]Is Martin Hyde licensed to drive? ...
OG help us. :eek:

ivylass, I think the only possible thing that might help is installing "porta potties" in the rigs of the offenders.

Naw. They probably just dump the holding tank and the intersection of Oak and Main in Everytown, USA. They simply don't care.

They may be on to something with the $1000.00+ fines. Hit 'em where they live!

[ivylass]

BTW, I thought Trucker Bombs referred to the other form of bodily elimination we humans engage in.

[mlerose]

Not a rant, just a question.

I've driven several times over the Continental Divide (I70) and there are "runaway trucker" lanes and gravel roads and stretches on both sides of the divide. My guess is that these also exist other places where there are steep grades. If you have to use one of these "runaway trucker" safeguards, how do you then get off the thing and back on the highway? or do you just stay there until someone comes to fix the brakes? How do these work? (I hope you know what I'm talking about!)

[Viscera]

Another question...

If i was only able to drive 10 hours in any 24 hour period, I'd go nuts. What do you guys do if you've slept, and still can't drive due to the government quota?

[LucyInDisguise]

Not a rant, just a question.

I've driven several times over the Continental Divide (I70) and there are "runaway trucker" lanes and gravel roads and stretches on both sides of the divide. My guess is that these also exist other places where there are steep grades. If you have to use one of these "runaway trucker" safeguards, how do you then get off the thing and back on the highway? or do you just stay there until someone comes to fix the brakes? How do these work? (I hope you know what I'm talking about!)
Oh, yeah ... I know what you're talking about. Thank OG I've never had to use a runaway truck lane.

These things start out with about 2" of gravel at the entrance, and get progressively deeper, up to 18" deep at the far end. They are designed to slow the truck by letting it sink into the gravel.

The only way out is to get draged out by a tow truck and a winch. And the fines can be huge. Still, it's a whole lot better than killing someone (or even yourself!).

[Cat Whisperer]

The runaway truck lanes around here (Canadian Rockies) aren't gravel so much as a steep grade. You get on the lane and go up like an airplane on takeoff. It looks scary as hell, but they all look fairly well-used (no weeds overgrowing the lane). At least you don't have to get winched out - you just back back down, I'm guessing.

[Craneop2]

A couple other things that get to me as a driver as well.

People on the shoulder of a freeway that have had trouble or just a break. 8 out of 10 times they will pull directly back into traffic lanes from a dead stop! entering traffic at 2 MPH, always try to get up at least CLOSE to ambient speed before entering the freeway.

The other happens a lot in municipalities. Folks the entrance ramp is actually an acceleration lane. PLEASE use it to attempt to enter traffic flow at speed. I once had a fellow here in Houston get to the end of the ramp and STOP! I managed to miss him but slid down an embankment onto the feeder and almost killed myself and a car full of kids that were just minding their own business traveling on the feeder. Guess who would have gotten the blame .

All in a days work I reckon.

[Rick]

First off re: the OP golf clap. Well done.
The other happens a lot in municipalities. Folks the entrance ramp is actually an acceleration lane. PLEASE use it to attempt to enter traffic flow at speed. I once had a fellow here in Houston get to the end of the ramp and STOP! I managed to miss him but slid down an embankment onto the feeder and almost killed myself and a car full of kids that were just minding their own business traveling on the feeder. Guess who would have gotten the blame .

All in a days work I reckon.
This is a very New York thing. Everytime I go back to NY I almost get creamed when I use the acceleration lane to accelerate. Some yahoo always stops at the end. :smack:
:wally

[Queuing]

Originally, I was going to just post an "Ask The" thread in one of the other forums. Then I realized that it would probably turn into a pit thread anyway, so I thought, "why not kill two birds ..." as it were. I think your post proves my point.

The penalties can be very severe. I can only drive for 10 hours in any given 24 hour period. If I have to cover 680 miles in that ten hours in order to deliver my cargo on time, and can only manage an average speed of 68 miles per hour, well, you do the math. On a long run, every single second counts.

Sorry if that sounds a little snippy ...

but you started it.



ABOVE QUOTE SNIPPED A LOT.

No, life isn't fair I am well aware of that. I would like to point out that while I don't drive as work, I do need to drive to work, so the 'we are working here arguement' doesn't hold much water for me. If I am late for a meeting, or unable to get to a client in time because of some of the actions of fellow drivers (both car and truck) it costs me money as well.

I have been cut off many a time by a truck just signalling and moving over on the highway. This is a fairly flat highway, and just a regular big rig (I have never see these double or triple things you are talking about, sound scary though). I really doubt that all of these are done by rookies, nor is it really a valid excuse. The people you are complaining about could very well be rookies too, do they get a free pass?

I don't doubt a number of you watch your mirrors and try to pass at a good time, I just question why the hell you are passing in the first place? 105, 107 km/h, not a big damn difference, and I have watched these trucks, they don't pull ahead of the other truck, it seems damn useless to me.

As to your 680 miles, ten hours need to do 68 mph, that is not my problem. If you can't schedule properly, and are forced to take over the road, based on size much like a schoolyard bully, and not share the road, don't be surprised when the victims do stupid things to avoid your bully tactics. Also don't be surprised about tougher gov't regulations against you.

For the record, I am very impressed with your answers. They do give an insight not previously available to me. I do not think that excuses some of the behavour I see from your fellow truckers, nor the attitude you have expressed here. Others need the road to work to, its not just yours, saying we are big be scared of us (while valid advice) is a bully attitude. As well this is the pit, for fucks sake. This is way to nice so far.

I didn't start it, you pitted my fellow drivers, then asked for questions. I gave you a question.

[Tinkertoy]

Runaway lanes are often on scenic mountain passes, and it is unbelievable how many idiots park in them. I remember an incident a few years ago where some fools parked a car in one and walked across the road to admire the scenery. A driver with a runaway truck saw what he thought was an empty car and decided it was better to hit an empty car than risk plowing into a full one. Unfortunately they had left their baby in a car seat, the infant was killed. He has to live with that even if it was an accident.

Referring to the trucker bombs, my hubby has on occasion had to use a bottle to relieve himself because he has a malady common to truckers; enlarged prostate. However he always disposes of them properly, and thinks anyone who doesn’t should be boiled in his own urine.

If you see a driver driving recklessly take note of the company name on the truck as well as the truck number if you can. Don’t just report him to the police but also his company. My husband’s boss pays attention to these reports because not only could someone be hurt or killed, but the driver is driving a very expensive piece of machinery which is very expensively insured. Also a lost load can mean a lost contract and in this market that can kill a company.

[SpazCat]

Just out of curiosity, Lucy what do you transport? I've never seen any kind of double tanker where I am (NC), so is that a western thing or have I just never noticed?

Also, how dangerous are those car transports? My brother-in-law told me once that cars have been known to fall off them sometimes, but I've never seen or heard of it so I don't know whether he's full of beans or what.

[E-Sabbath]

Hm. You know, there's a good point here. I feel there's a distinct difference between East Coast driving, and mid-america. How do you find it? It's clearly more congested. Is West Coast as bad?

I should point out that what I called 'light traffic' was NYC light traffic. Some places might call it heavier. Average highway speeds are 70 MPH in the slow lane. Or, well, 6 mph.

[Muffin]

When you get one of these rigs tailgating you on a two lane road, the best plan of defense is to simply maintain your speed (allowing for existing conditions). It is possible that the the Driver is following close and waiting for an opportunity to pass you safely. Do not slow down, as this will just aggravate the situation. There is a reason why you don't see us entering these things in the Indianapolis 500: these rigs do not accelerate like Ferraris. It is especially difficult on a two lane road to pass safely from too far back, but the Driver should pass at the first opportunity. Try to keep in mind that the Driver can see a lot further up the road than you can. Also, please note that your definition of a safe opportunity may be very different than ours. I know you wouldn't, but I have seen four-wheelers pass in some of the strangest places.

[Caveat: I'm assuming a fully loaded truck on flat and level ground here.
Thanks for the well thought out response.

Unfortunately, the road I regularly drive is hilly and curvey (e.g. gradients of over 7% and substandard curves relative to the MTO design specs for regional roads, with some steep hills ending in doozies of tight turns). The MTO studied one of the more troublesome sections, and found that most of the crashes heading up the hill were caused by trucks passing each other in good weather, and most of the crashes heading down the hill were caused by going too fast in bad weather at night.

Therefore, passing (or pulling over to be passed) usually is not an option unless there is a passing lane. I wish drivers would recognise this, rather than try to defeat the laws of physics.

[LucyInDisguise]

Sorry, computer crashed and I've been a few hours sorting it out & getting it back up ...
[snip]... I do not think that excuses some of the behavour I see from your fellow truckers, nor the attitude you have expressed here. Others need the road to work to, its not just yours, saying we are big be scared of us (while valid advice) is a bully attitude. As well this is the pit, for fucks sake. This is way to nice so far...

Sorry, not trying to excuse anything, especially other Commercial Drivers, just offering up some possible reasons. Hope you can tell the difference. There will always be assholes on both side of the fence. Those of us who really make an effort to do it right, courteously, and safely are even more frustrated with the way thing are than you are.

As for my attitude, I never bully anyone. To easy to make a small miscalculation that could result in severe injury or death. They to pay me enough to do a good imitatation of 'Dangerous Dan'

And you're certainly right about this being so tame. I put this thing in the pit because I was certain that things would get a little wild.

Just goes to show...

[LucyInDisguise]

Just out of curiosity, Lucy what do you transport? I've never seen any kind of double tanker where I am (NC), so is that a western thing or have I just never noticed?

Also, how dangerous are those car transports? My brother-in-law told me once that cars have been known to fall off them sometimes, but I've never seen or heard of it so I don't know whether he's full of beans or what.
I haul used oil and used antifreeze. Most of what I haul comes from the mines in northern NV, although I do collect from smaller commercial generators.

I've only been through NC twice, both times were back in '93 when I was haulin' boxed beef - and I was asleep at the time. I have seen doubles on the eastern seaboard, but it seems to me that they're not anywhere near as common as they are west of the big ditch. Uhhh, that would be the Mississippi to you.

I've only heard on one car falling off of a transport. That was several years ago and due to an equipment failure. Those cars are pretty expensive, the Drivers that I've met are pretty nit-picky about getting them tied down properly.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hm. You know, there's a good point here. I feel there's a distinct difference between East Coast driving, and mid-america. How do you find it? It's clearly more congested. Is West Coast as bad?

I should point out that what I called 'light traffic' was NYC light traffic. Some places might call it heavier. Average highway speeds are 70 MPH in the slow lane. Or, well, 6 mph.
I had a lot more trouble in LA than I ever had back east. Chicago and The Motor City gave me a few fits as well. I don't recall there being much difference in metropolitan traffic on either end, or in the middle for that matter. But then I'm not the best judge for that. I hate driving in the city. That's why I moved out here to the middle of No Damn Place, NV, where our definition of a traffic jam is two cars at the same stop sign within 5 minutes of each other ... ;)

[LucyInDisguise]

Thanks for the well thought out response.

Unfortunately, the road I regularly drive is hilly and curvey (e.g. gradients of over 7% and substandard curves relative to the MTO design specs for regional roads, with some steep hills ending in doozies of tight turns). The MTO studied one of the more troublesome sections, and found that most of the crashes heading up the hill were caused by trucks passing each other in good weather, and most of the crashes heading down the hill were caused by going too fast in bad weather at night.

Therefore, passing (or pulling over to be passed) usually is not an option unless there is a passing lane. I wish drivers would recognise this, rather than try to defeat the laws of physics.
I wish I had some better advice for you.

7% or greater grades will make ya nuts. The bad part is, quite a few Commercial Drivers lose their patience on those kinds of grades if they aren't exposed to them frequently. Then it seems like they just turn their brains off. :smack:

I've long since become accustomed to plodding up and down those kinds of hills. Sorta the nature of the beast out here. There are techniques that you pick up over the years to help ya deal with them. However, to the best of my knowledge, those techniques are not taught in any truck driving schools.

[LucyInDisguise]

Okay. Signing off for a bit. Got a 3:00 AM run and a long day tomorrow. I'll check back in tomorrow evening.

Try to jazz this place up a bit while I'm gone, okay?

Lucy

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

What, leaving already? Fuck that! Fuck fuck fuckity-fuck!




How's that for Pitifying the thread?

[Cat Whisperer]

He's just a drive-by poster. :D

[Feydeau]

I worry when I see a tractor without a trailer. They seem like they're always about to tip over. Am I worrying for nothing?

[Rick]

I've long since become accustomed to plodding up and down those kinds of hills. Sorta the nature of the beast out here. There are techniques that you pick up over the years to help ya deal with them. However, to the best of my knowledge, those techniques are not taught in any truck driving schools.
Would one of those techniques be bring a book cause you are going to be there a while? :D

[Roland Orzabal]

...huh? He's gone? Sweet!

hay fuck u man.........u can shuv ur truk rite up ur @$$!!1!1!

What? He's coming back? Oh shit oh shit oh shit

Hey, uh, how's it goin' there good buddy? One hundred and four, as they say, heh heh. Yep. Loves me some truckers. Uh, do what now? Oh...yeah, that crazy cat of mine, can't seem to keep him off the keyboard...heh...

[zuma]

I've never in my life witnessed a bad truck driver. Now lots of other insane drivers, sure, but a truck driver? Never. That's expected. I've probably pissed off a truck driver less than 10 times in my life, and I'm proud of that hehe

[Mama Tiger]

I do try to be a considerate driver when I'm dealing with trucks. I know they're not doing it for fun; I know that they make money based on the miles they drive. I let them change lanes; I try not to get frustrated when I get behind a truck passing another truck slowly; I try to not cut in front of them sharply, etc.

But I'll never forget about ten years ago, driving across Arizona late in the evening, around 9-10 pm, on the interstate. Apparently that was the hour at which all cars get off that stretch of interstate and leave it to the truckers to haul ass, and I found myself sandwiched between trucks, in whichever lane I tried to drive in, going 85 mph, and if I didn't keep up, they'd run up my ass so hard and so fast I was nearly run off the road multiple times. It took about two hours to get to our destination, and I was shaking like a leaf by the time I got there. I have never witnessed such a demonstration of aggressive driving by so many massive vehicles in my life. It was awful.

So not all truckers drive safely. Running into so many all at once was one of the worst driving experiences of my life, and I am not exaggerating when I say that.

[Dead Cat]

Hi, Lucy. First of all, good rant - although I am only a humble car driver, I share many of your sentiments. The only thing I would say to criticise: is cadence braking (pumping the brake pedal to avoid skidding under heavy braking) not possible in a semi? I don't know, it may be that the mechanics of a truck's braking system do not make this a viable technique. But if it is, it seems to me that you're at least partially responsible for wrecking 18 tyres. I know that in an emergency situation it's not easy to consciously let go of the brake when skidding, but if it was for 102 feet that should give you some time to think - and you are a pro an' all :).

Second, you rightly deplore tailgating. So why do trucks often seem to do this to other trucks with no qualms at all, when they can't possibly see the road ahead? Thanks.

[Ponder Stibbons]

Goddamnit, LucyInDisguise, you have got to stop bottling up your feelings and let us know what you really think.

Actually, one little thing got me to thinking ...
That's more than $5400.00 damage to this rig and I didn't even get your insurance information.
I wonder if it's worth it for you to get one of those video camera setups like the police have. Wouldn't it be great to file an insurance claim against this bozo and have the video evidence to back it up? Just a random thought ...

[DogMom]

Can we add the truckers that decide they're the Speed Limit Police to the pit list?
I understand that it takes for-freaking-ever to pass anything in one of those rigs. It's sheer physics. No problem. I always try to do the "flashy thing" with the lights (NOT brights, thanks) to let the trucker know it's safe to merge in front of me. I always try to leave extra room in front of me at the stop light so the trucker at the intersection to my right can make a left turn onto my street without having to swing clear into the next county.
I try to treat truckers with the utmost courtesy on the road. So it's not like I'm drumming my fingers on the wheel saying, "PASS PASS PASS PASS GET OUT OF MY WAY YOU JERK!!" I understand it'll take him forever to pass.

But what is up with the "pull into the passing lane then pace the truck in the slow lane"? Hey, jerk, I know you're frustrated with the fact that the Speed Limit sign says

SPEED LIMIT 70
MINIMUM 55
TRUCKS SPEED LIMIT 60

But it's not illegal for me to go 10mph faster than you! You're not the Speed Limit Police! I understand that you're pissed off you're not allowed to go as fast as I do, but for the love of all that is holy, STOP TRYING TO MAKE US ALL GO YOUR SPEED. You're just pissing off the people behind you. And yep, we know you're doing it on purpose - you're not trying to pass. If you were, you'd have actually passed (or at least made some progress toward doing so, sometime in the last 20 minutes or so. And you'd not have suddenly slowed down to get back behind the damn truck you've been pacing as soon as you saw the cop car along the side of the road.

[Siege]

LucyInDisguise, thank you for a fascinating thread. I've got a couple of questions for you.

First, when I'm sitting in bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic at speeds of about 5 to 15 mph, how much room should I leave behind you? I've noticed that if I can see your mirrors, I'll have cars crowding in between you and me.

Second, I work across the street from a trucking company, and I see a lot of 18-wheel trucks in my area. I've gotten used to spotting the less-experienced drivers! One morning, when I came into work, a truck was parked in front of and parallel to our building, blocking several spaces. What should my employer have done? Would it have been polite to knock on the door of the cab and let the driver know he was on private property and ask him to move his truck? That time, the situation took care of itself, but it was a bit frustrating.

The terrain in my neck of the woods is hills to mountains. If I'm travelling downhill in the mountains and I see a truck coming up behind me, I'll move over into the fast lane to let him pass, rather than expecting him to change lanes to get around me. I assume this is appreciated; if it isn't, let me know. I remember one trip back from West Virginia where a truck driver and I were going at about the same average speed so I'd routinely pass him on the uphills, then pull over and let him pass me on the downhills. It felt rather companionable.

Thanks and drive safely. I know how much of our economy depends on the likes of you and I'm glad of you.

CJ

[Ludovic]

Swift. The most inappropriately named trucking company in the universe.Even moreso than Yellow, whose logo and trucks are deep orange?

[Mama Tiger]

My favorite trucking line is the one with the big "G.O.D." on their trucks. I realize it's an abbreviation for General Something Delivery, but it just seems deeply tacky to me.

[Mr. Goob]

My favorite trucking line is the one with the big "G.O.D." on their trucks. I realize it's an abbreviation for General Something Delivery, but it just seems deeply tacky to me.

Guarenteed Overnight Delivery

[Shayna]

Ohhh, now that's a cute little manuver. You see an 80,000 truck coming at you at 50 mph and you decide it will be okay to pull out in front of it. Seventy feet in front of it. Did you sleep through your high school physics class? I will use up 70 feet of roadway just getting this thing down to 40 mph. I hope that Honda is really a top fuel dragster in disguise, cause if it isn't, one of us is going to get hurt (let's see, 1500 pound Honda Civic vs. 80,000 pound Kenworth ... nope, don't think it's going to be me). Naw, guess I'll have to lock it up. 102 feet of skid marks from eighteen tires curving into the right hand emergency lane. Missed ya by, well, I couldn't see how close I came to hitting your car. I was kinda busy at the time. But it couldn't have been by much. And you just drive off, secure in the knowledge that you are so dense that light bends around you, and blissfully unaware that you just made me square off eighteen tires. That's eighteen tires that will have to be replaced. At $300.00 each (does not include mounting). That's more than $5400.00 damage to this rig and I didn't even get your insurance information. And it's often not the jackass who pulls this stunt who's the one who gets hurt, either. I lost a collegue to someone who did this. Asshole in a little car cuts off a big rig on a rainy day in 50mph traffic, then speeds off into the blissfully ignorant distance, leaving a wake of death and destruction behind him. The truck lost control and jackknifed into oncoming traffic, completely shearing away the driver's side of my associate's car. Rumor had it that she was decapitated in the accident, but it was too gruesome to try to confirm (didn't want to seem morbidly curious). The guy was so distraught he had to quit driving (which I learned through another colleague who coincidentally happened to know the trucker). I second the suggestion that you guys get cameras rigged on your dashes.

P.S. I missed it happening to me by approximately 1 minute, as I left right after she did, and take the same route home. Got stuck in traffic behind the accident only moments after it happened. Shook me up pretty bad for a while, too.

[Ghanima]

Hey Mr. Truck Driver:

Is it true that you all want to see my tits? Even the female drivers? Is it OK if I keep my bra on? What about mooning?

Also, can you explain why a trucker would give the double bird in traffic so slow you could barely move? One time I was stuck in traffic on the Bay Bridge, changed lanes (slowly) and looked up into my rear view to see this trucker give me the double bird. What could I have possibly done to piss him off that much? It's not like I could have caused an accident at 2 mph. Thoughts?

[waterj2]

[Caveat: I'm assuming a fully loaded truck on flat and level ground here. If you are climbing even a gradual grade, it may not be possible to pass you without one hell of a long safe zone. For example: there is a section of U. S. 93 about 26 miles north of Wells, NV, where it can take me six or seven miles to get the rig up even one or two mph higher. Most people think this is some pretty flat ground, only about a 1% grade. (Road surface rises 1' in elevation in each 100 linear feet.) But I'm always doubled up on that run, and at 105,000 lbs, the effect is pretty dramatic. This is where I usually run up behind the "RV from Hell".

Once I get to where I know I'll be able to see about 8 miles of roadway, I'll close the gap. This will take anywhere from 3 to 5 miles to accomplish. When I can see that there are 8 miles of clear roadway I will begin to accelerate for the pass. I recognize the bolded words as being correct English, but, being from the Boston area, I would never have expected that they could actually be used that way.

Anyways, I'm a bike messenger here, and I'm always amazed at the patience and skill of most truckers, especially as compared to pretty much every other person and vehicle on the road. Sure, when a trucker screws up, it's pretty dramatic, but given how little 18-wheelers were taken into account when the roads were first laid out, and how little regard Boston drivers have for anyone else, that's to be expected.

I wonder how the poor guy that managed to get his truck all the way onto Arch Street before realizing that it was a one way ever got himself out. Basically, his situation was that he was in a narrow, one lane road, which ended in a T intersection directly behind him at a two way street (truck was in the base of the T facing downward). There were buildings on both sides blocking all visibility, and irate cars were probably going to be showing up trying to go the other direction pretty soon.

It's always fun watching the trucks coming through Winthrop Square after all the traffic clears out if they have to make a second attempt at the 100 Summer Street loading dock. The shorter (47' I think) trucks simply swing around from Devonshire to Otis, then make the left onto Summer. The 53' trucks are too long to make the left onto Summer, so if there's no traffic, they make an elaborate U-turn in the middle of Winthrop Square and go back down Devonshire. If it's donw well, it's rather impressive to watch.

Oh, and the one truck driver that was nice enough to stop when I wiped out on my bike right in front of you, thanks for not running me over. It certainly wasn't any 102' skidmarks, but it was probably more stress than you needed.

[waterj2]

But what is up with the "pull into the passing lane then pace the truck in the slow lane"? Hey, jerk, I know you're frustrated with the fact that the Speed Limit sign says

SPEED LIMIT 70
MINIMUM 55
TRUCKS SPEED LIMIT 60

But it's not illegal for me to go 10mph faster than you! You're not the Speed Limit Police! I understand that you're pissed off you're not allowed to go as fast as I do, but for the love of all that is holy, STOP TRYING TO MAKE US ALL GO YOUR SPEED. You're just pissing off the people behind you. And yep, we know you're doing it on purpose - you're not trying to pass. If you were, you'd have actually passed (or at least made some progress toward doing so, sometime in the last 20 minutes or so. And you'd not have suddenly slowed down to get back behind the damn truck you've been pacing as soon as you saw the cop car along the side of the road.From what I've read in this thread, this could easily be caused by engine governors (which physically prevent the truck going above a certain speed) and trucks trying to position themselves with the lightest in front before reaching an uphill.

[LucyInDisguise]

"Rickkkkeeeeyyyy, I'm Home ..."

Wow - what a laundry list! Hey - this is going to be long, so bear with me ...

Feydeau Yes, no need to worry. Bobtail tractors are probably more stable than your car. Most, like my tractor, weigh in somewhere between 17,000 and 21,000 lb. If I were to take the cab, hood and front fender off of the frame, I'd only be removing about 1,000 pounds. If I had a sleeper on the truck, that would be another 1500 - 2000 lbs. All of the weight is in the frame, engine/drivetrain, and wheels.

Rick OG, don't I wish ... :eek:

Roland Orzabal :D

zuma Oh, there are bad truck drivers out there, believe me! (I spent 30 minutes dressing one down on the CB just this afternoon ...) Thanks for your courtesy when around the big trucks, it is sincerely appreciated. (Helps keep you safe, too!)

Mama Tiger Ooooh boooooy, a conga line. :D

I sure wish those guys (& gals) wouldn't do that. Gives all of us a black eye. Never seen it anywhere but the flatland in TX, NM and AZ, though.

Best strategy: get off the road for about 20 minutes. They tend to run in a pack - but usually not more than 8 - 10 trucks. I guess they figure that there's safety in numbers, Highway Patrol can only grab one or two of them. Beats the shit out of me, I just get the hell out of their way then phone it in.

Thank you for your consideration.

Dead Cat Clarification: 'Squared off' refers to all of the flat spots that the anti-lock brake system puts on the tires in a hard stop. 'Lock it up' no longer means what it used to; it's a reference to the maneuver of a hard stop, not actually locking the wheels up to where they won't turn.

As to your second question, it's a matter of trust. When I allow another rig in close to me, I effectively hand over the job of watching the road and the traffic until they open up enough space for me to take it back. Until then, I'm a brake light attendant, and the safety of myself, my rig and my load are all in that Drivers hands. Note that, except on steep grades, I never signal another Driver to move over until the space between the back of his rig and the front of mine is equal to double my reaction time (adjusted for my level of fatigue), or roughly about 2 seconds of following distance. On steep grades, all bets are off. I'll let 'em in as soon as they clear my front bumper, especially if traffic is backing up behind them. If they've got the power to pass me, they'll generally open up a safe following distance in a matter of a few seconds. I'm sure as hell not going to be gaining on them.

Ponder Stibbons Actually, a couple of companies are testing this idea right now. They're both intracity carriers. From what I understand, so far the equipment available just won't put up with the rough ride. Expense is another drawback, as is the fact that most Drivers would throw a bloody fit. The onboard satellite systems are still very much resented by a substantial percentage of Drivers that have them on board. 'Till they break down out in the middle of No Damn Place, NV - Then they're happy they've got it.

(snip) ... But what is up with the "pull into the passing lane then pace the truck in the slow lane"? ...
Just thought (and almost certainly not the reason in the case you cited). There have been times that I have pulled out to pass a slower moving truck and got completely surprised by a strong head wind that dropped my speed dramatically. One time out on the Salt Flats in the western desert of Utah, it took me 17 miles to pass another truck. Luckily it was at 3:30 in the morning and traffic was almost nonexistent or I would have had to abandon the pass.

There are those on both side of this issue that think they should help the police enforce the law. I know I've had uncounted dozens of motorists & trucks try to slow me down, even though I was not speeding. They just thought I was, I guess. I don't know the answer. I know I've seen a couple of other threads on this board complaining about the same thing.

Siege Rush Hour. Talk about misnomers.

5 to 15 mph, don't leave anymore room than you would any other vehicle. Hint: if the sun is up and shining from one side or the other, the Driver can usually see the shadow cast by your car. If the sun is dead ahead, or straight behind, drift a little off center in your lane from time to time so the Driver can keep track of you. I said, just a little! :D Ya know, like 8 - 10 inches.

Parked, on private property, without permission? Hell, yeah - I'd bang on the door and see if anybody's home, polite or not. :wally

Passing on a down grade? Hell, I'm happy to go 'round ya. Gives me something to do. :D

Seriously, though, more often than not, you're really going to fake me out. I've already done the calculations and planned my moves with regard to you; my attention is focused more like 3/4 to one mile in front of you. If you change lanes without any obvious reason, I've got to pull my attention back to you, watch you, and try to figure out what you're doing. It may only take me a moment, but it interrupts my concentration, none the less. (And at night, it's really going to freak me out. I'm going to be looking for a stalled car that doesn't have lights (or worse, a slow moving vehicle that doesn't have tail lights), or a deer, or debris in the road, etc.) In 999 cases out of 100, I'd say try to stay away from doing anything unexpected. (Don't get me wrong, though, the sentiment is definitely appreciated!)

Ludovic Damn straight. Hey, with the right shade of sunglasses those signs are yellow. :D

Shayna What can I say? "Sorry for your loss" always seems so totally inadequate.

Ghanima, I'm gonna take your questions in reverse order.
Also, can you explain why a trucker would give the double bird in traffic so slow you could barely move? One time I was stuck in traffic on the Bay Bridge, changed lanes (slowly) and looked up into my rear view to see this trucker give me the double bird. What could I have possibly done to piss him off that much? It's not like I could have caused an accident at 2 mph. Thoughts?
Only possible explanation: You got in front of him, which would mean that there is just one more car in his way - just that much longer to wait to get out of that mess. It's not rational, but then, who among us can honestly say they always stay completely rational in that kind of traffic? :dubious:

Is it true that you all want to see my tits? Even the female drivers? Is it OK if I keep my bra on? What about mooning?

What? Me? Hey, I can't speak for the other guys, but I'm a happily married man! (I know I'm happy - my wife told me so!) :D

Seriously, though, a couple of years back a car load of college girls were traveling north bound on I-15 between Cedar City and Beaver, UT. Topless, and mooning truck drivers. The three passengers got $200 fines (each) and had to do 60 hours of community service picking up garbage along that same stretch of road. The driver had her license suspended for 60 days, did 30 days in the county jail, and had a whopping $1500.00 fine to pay before her license was reinstated. Something to think about in there somewhere.


Doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good seat cover now and then. Saw a sign a rig a few years back:


"Be a flirt, Hike that skirt!" ;)





Pity.

Nobody ever wears skirts anymore. :(





Except ...





there was this one guy ... :eek:

Lucy

[LucyInDisguise]

From what I've read in this thread, this could easily be caused by engine governors (which physically prevent the truck going above a certain speed) and trucks trying to position themselves with the lightest in front before reaching an uphill.
Possible, but I doubt it in this case, at least the way DogMom described it. I really thing she found herself a cop wannabe.

Happy to hear you did not end up on the menu at the Roadkill Restaurant. :D

Lucy

[Muffin]

The three passengers got $200 fines (each) and had to do 60 hours of community service picking up garbage along that same stretch of road.Bending over in public beside the highway as community service.

[LucyInDisguise]

Bending over in public beside the highway as community service.
I'm not sure why ...


But whoever wrote the newspaper article about this event seemed to go out of their way to point out that the young ladies would be wearing ...




Orange [I]bulky, oversized[ /I] Coveralls. :D


Chow and bedtime again.


Catch y'all on the morrow.

Lucy

[waterj2]

Possible, but I doubt it in this case, at least the way DogMom described it. I really thing she found herself a cop wannabe.I was thinking that if she was noticing it often, that the occasional cop wannabe might have prejudiced her against allowing more generous explanations to the more common occurrences of getting stuck behind passing trucks.

Incidentally, what happens if the truck being passed isn't interested in playing the cop wannabe game? Does the one driver ask over the CB "dude, WTF?, just let the red Nissan pass", or something?
Happy to hear you did not end up on the menu at the Roadkill Restaurant. :DThanks. In inner-city congestion, and on a bicycle, it's way too easy to forget about that front blind spot that trucks are going to have for a few feet in front of their grille. Luckily, I was well out of that area, but it was closer than I could possibly feel comfortable with.

[chique]

But what is up with the "pull into the passing lane then pace the truck in the slow lane"?Probably for the same reason four-wheelers do it. Do you have any idea why four-wheelers do it? I sure as hell don't. It's as annoying as those jerks who truck along in the travel lane at 68 in a 70 until I come up on them at 75, realize they're going too slow, bump it up to 76, move over to the passing lane, then pace the car in the travel lane at 71 for the next three miles.

*twitch*

99.8% of the time when I get really, really pissed at another driver it's a four-wheeler. So do you, and so does anyone else on the road. It's just that the other 0.2% of the time the guy who pisses you off is big and SCARY.

My single scariest moment on the road involved a trucker in Cheyenne, WY. Approaching Cheyenne on I-90 I encountered a small sleet storm, continued through the city, and picked up I-25 North. About the time I came off the merge the back end of the sleet storm hit and right before ALL of my windows completely and utterly FOGGED UP I saw tail lights, so I put my brakes, too. Turned on my defrost and defog and cracked my window, and once my windows cleared up enough for me to see, I looked in my rearview mirror and all I saw was grille. Not a license plate, not a headlight, just grille. I have no. fucking. idea. how that guy avoided rear-ending me but he did. It wasn't until years later that I understood the skill that driver exhibited.

I worked for a trucking company for a time and have defended them in the past, and will continue to do so. But as with any other population there's a healthy percentage of jerks out there. Suck it up and deal. It's never a trucking issue, it's an individual thing.The guy was so distraught he had to quit driving...One of my drivers was driving an empty flat across a bridge with Jersey barriers when a car blew a tire. He locked it up and somehow managed to avoid hitting the car. When the state trooper arrived at the scene and checked over those involved in the near-wreck he was more worried about HIM than the occupants of the car that crashed. My driver was the only one really aware of what COULD have happened. Earlier in the day he had unloaded 20,000 pounds of granite. Imagine those physics.Now, I know that you're a big truck, but this isn't a small minivan-thing. And I have to say, on a light-traffic road, I don't appreciate it when you try to merge into me. It kind of pisses me off. Why do semis do that so much?Because the vast majority of drivers ignore turn signals, whether they be from 4, 10, or 18 wheelers. Some of my drivers referred to their turn signals as intentions, not requests, and drove accordingly. I'm not entirely sure I disagree with that sentiment......

[Rick]

Seriously, though, a couple of years back a car load of college girls were traveling north bound on I-15 between Cedar City and Beaver, UT. Topless, and mooning truck drivers. The three passengers got $200 fines (each) and had to do 60 hours of community service picking up garbage along that same stretch of road. The driver had her license suspended for 60 days, did 30 days in the county jail, and had a whopping $1500.00 fine to pay before her license was reinstated. Something to think about in there somewhere.Lucy
I take it they were cited for carrying an unsecured load?
D&R

[DogMom]

From what I've read in this thread, this could easily be caused by engine governors (which physically prevent the truck going above a certain speed) and trucks trying to position themselves with the lightest in front before reaching an uphill.

Which I could understand, but the trucks are very obviously not trying to pass, and it's almost always on flats. No uphills around.

[Mtgman]

Ok, so where's the hate for truckers with only cabs, no trailers, driving like madmen to their next pickup point? I was damn near splattered a few years ago by one. I was doing probably 75-80 passing someone in a 70 zone(60 for trucks) and a cab with no trailer was doing at least 85 - 90 and came up on me, VERY CLOSE, in the minute to ninety seconds it took me to complete my pass, honked, and gave me the finger.

Fucking asshole. His desire to make his next trailer pick-up point as soon as possible(because every mile without a trailer costs him real money) should not excuse doing 25-30 MPH over the limit and nearly splatting other drivers.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Psycho Pirate]

Good thread, Lucy. A couple of questions:

1) Can you shed any light on the phenomenon where some truck drivers feel the need to be the merge police? For example, a two lane road is merging down to one lane, and the merge point is approximately a mile out. Many times I have seen a large truck get into the merge lane about 1/2 mile to 1/4 mile out and just throw on the brakes, thereby forcing everyone to merge a little earlier. Is is just to cut off those drivers who wait until the last minute to merge?

2) Sometimes I see large trucks go by weigh stations without stopping. Aren't all large trucks required to stop at the weigh station? What is the deal here?

Thanks.

[Taters]

Good thread Lucy. My husband is a truck driver as well and has been since 1989. He was OTR long haul until about '92, then went to local, but still works for the same company. While he was OTR, he also worked as a driver-trainer for the rookie drivers to his company. He was a hard-nosed asshole with all of them, but, they turned into decent drivers. The only one that didn't, had formerly driven for the company and wanted to come back. For whatever reason, he had to do a stint as a trainee with my husband. This guy was a complete and utter asshole who thought he knew everything. He insisted on being taken back to the terminal early to "test". The hubby's dispatcher ordered my hubby to bring the guy in. My hubby told the dispatcher the guy was not ready, was a horrible driver, and also said he refused to sign any paperwork indicating the guy was ready and had passed the training. Guess what, the guy screwed up the testing. He ran into a building while backing around a corner, he forgot to drop the doglegs on the trailer before pulling out and the trailer dumped. There were a couple of other things, but that's what I remember. The guy ended up NOT working for the company.

I spent some time on the road with my hubby, and boy howdy, does sitting in the cab of semi give you whole different perspective. I was amazed at the amount stupidity displayed by other drivers.

Being a trucker is hard, lonely work. Most are decent people and go out of their way to help others. I give them all a lot of credit.

There will always be asshole drivers, on BOTH sides of the fence. I just give them all the space they need to goof up.

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip>
There will always be asshole drivers, on BOTH sides of the fence. I just give them all the space they need to goof up.
I try to do that, but people keep pulling into it. :D

Oh, that reminds me of another driving story. I was driving down a very slippery hill in the right-hand lane, a little below the speed limit because of road conditions. A guy was tailgating me all the way down, so I said to my passenger, "I'm going to let this guy pass me so he can have his accident somewhere else." I pulled over to the left lane, he whipped by me on the right, and promptly lost control and hit another car at the bottom of the hill. Ha! Sweet vindication!

[LucyInDisguise]

Okay, I'm back ... Got about an hour or so - so I'll get right to it ...
(snip)...Incidentally, what happens if the truck being passed isn't interested in playing the cop wannabe game? Does the one driver ask over the CB "dude, WTF?, just let the red Nissan pass", or something? ...
Those of us who give a shit try to remind the driver that this would be the courteous thing to do. All too often we get told to "Fuck off and drive our own truck". At this point I try to explain a few life facts to them, but for some reason they just turn their CB off. :smack:

I take it they were cited for carrying an unsecured load?
:D
Actually, IIRC, the driver was cited for reckless endangerment or some such seriousness. The other fine upstanding young ladies were cited for, of all things, indecent exposure. Frankly, I'd rather look at that than some of the faces I see ... :p

Ok, so where's the hate for truckers with only cabs, no trailers, driving like madmen to their next pickup point? I was damn near splattered a few years ago by one. I was doing probably 75-80 passing someone in a 70 zone(60 for trucks) and a cab with no trailer was doing at least 85 - 90 and came up on me, VERY CLOSE, in the minute to ninety seconds it took me to complete my pass, honked, and gave me the finger. ...(snip)
Ahhh, Look ... up in my mirror ... what could it be? Faster than a speeding jerkoff, more powerful than a fart in a hurricane, able to leap past other cars in a single bounce, it's ... SUPERCAR! (Somewhat less than technical term for any rig able to exceed the speed limit by more than 5 mph)

What can I say? Did ya ask him for his card as he went by? Probably says "Jerkoff Shirtoff, Professional Moronic Idiot. :rolleyes:

1) Can you shed any light on the phenomenon where some truck drivers feel the need to be the merge police? For example, a two lane road is merging down to one lane, and the merge point is approximately a mile out. Many times I have seen a large truck get into the merge lane about 1/2 mile to 1/4 mile out and just throw on the brakes, thereby forcing everyone to merge a little earlier. Is is just to cut off those drivers who wait until the last minute to merge?

2) Sometimes I see large trucks go by weigh stations without stopping. Aren't all large trucks required to stop at the weigh station? What is the deal here?

1. Sure thing. As soon as you can explain to me why, when everybody is sitting there patiently wait for the traffic to funnel down into the one lane, other jerks feel like they're so important enough to bypass all those people and run up to the head of the line and butt in. I doubt they'd try it at Mc Donald's during the lunch rush (probably 'cause they know somebody would punch their lights out!). So, as frustration mounts, and you keep watching all of these self-important jerks go by - some drivers hang their trailers out kinda as a place marker. It's really a lot safer than what I saw a guy driving a Beemer do last year - He got out of his car and started hitting cars with a baseball bat as they went by. (8 broken windshield later, he got arrested.) :wally

2. Those trucks that you see bypassing the ports belong to companies that have met certain qualifications and pay fees to join the "Free Pass System". The trucks are equipped with a special receiver that gets instructions from the computer in the port. When they cross the "Weigh In Motion" scale, the computer gets a quick ball park weight. If the truck is within certain parameters, the receiver gets a signal and the driver is free to bypass the port. If not, they have to pull in and cross the scales for and accurate weight.

Simple, huh?

Taters, Thanx ...

(snip) ... I pulled over to the left lane, he whipped by me on the right, and promptly lost control and hit another car at the bottom of the hill. Ha! Sweet vindication!

Gotta love it (except the part about them hitting an innocent ...) Revenge is a dish best served cold. And it's even better if you don't have to serve it 'cause they did it to themselves ... :D

Next?

Lucy

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Ever hauled livestock? Do the drivers of those rigs have to know anything about care of the critters they're transporting? How strict are the regulations for livestock welfare?

Now, I know a two-horse trailer pulled by a pickup is way different than a hauler headed for the slaughterhouse, but I also know from riding with my horse-hauling friend that when you've got a live load on four legs you have added concerns about stuff like rapid braking, unless you like the idea of animals being thrown down by inertia.

[LucyInDisguise]

Ever hauled livestock?
Yeah, I gave it a shot for about 6 week. Cows. Dumbest animals on the face of the planet. IMNSHO.
Do the drivers of those rigs have to know anything about care of the critters they're transporting?
Yes.
How strict are the regulations for livestock welfare?
Very.
Now, I know a two-horse trailer pulled by a pickup is way different than a hauler headed for the slaughterhouse, but I also know from riding with my horse-hauling friend that when you've got a live load on four legs you have added concerns about stuff like rapid braking, unless you like the idea of animals being thrown down by inertia.
Horses are alot easier to haul than cows. Horses, lean into a corner, much the way you or most any other animal with a brain.

Cows, on the other hand, lean to the outside of the trailer in a curve, much like the oil I haul. :rolleyes:

Truely. Stupid. Animals.

Deserve to be eaten. :D

Chow & bed time again ...

Type at y'all tomorrow.

Lucy

[Roland Orzabal]

1) Can you shed any light on the phenomenon where some truck drivers feel the need to be the merge police? For example, a two lane road is merging down to one lane, and the merge point is approximately a mile out. Many times I have seen a large truck get into the merge lane about 1/2 mile to 1/4 mile out and just throw on the brakes, thereby forcing everyone to merge a little earlier. Is is just to cut off those drivers who wait until the last minute to merge?Every time I see a trucker doing this, I'd like to give him a cookie.

The ones you should be complaining about are the stupid motherfuckers who, the moment they notice that traffic is slowing down, zip into the lane that nobody else seems to be in (I wonder why?!), zoom down the road at 10mph over the limit, then sit there without so much as a goddamned turn signal waiting for some pushover to let Their Royal Highnesses in, thereby stopping traffic unnecessarily, causing the people behind the pushover to slow down...at which point some other dipshit zips into the unoccupied lane, etc., etc.

Somehow, the sight of a 40-ton rolling blockade on eighteen wheels moving along at a sensible rate down the lane seems to be quite effective in curbing this behavior.

[E-Sabbath]

Okay, I'm back ... Got about an hour or so - so I'll get right to it ...
1. Sure thing. As soon as you can explain to me why, when everybody is sitting there patiently wait for the traffic to funnel down into the one lane, other jerks feel like they're so important enough to bypass all those people and run up to the head of the line and butt in.



There was a long discussion about this a while back. Apparently, merging moves fastest when both lanes are full.

[Martin Hyde]

Okay. Did you read the article in question? I mean actually read it? Ya know, like, all the way to the end? Did you notice that there were two pages? Perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions. Let me rephrase it in a little simpler fashion so your mind can grasp the concept I'm trying to understand:

Can you read?

Sure did, and sure can. Considering your stated profession I'm a bit surprised that you can.

Maybe your browser got stuck? Or you nodded off? Pehaps you were too lazy to scroll down past the "Click for related content" bar? It might be that you got confused by this one paragraph:

Since you seem to be incapable of reading for content, let me explain that this one paragraph suggests that there are some sources other than truckers. The other 95% of the article is about 'Trucker Bombs' and what various state agencies are trying to do about the problem.

It should be clear, to anyone with an I.Q. higher than that of an average potted house plant, that, indeed, most of these things come from truckers who are to lazy to walk to a restroom.

Hence the name: "Trucker Bombs" [as opposed to "and even non-truckers' bombs"]

My apologies to any average potted house plants who may feel offended by the above analogy.

Lucy

Problem being there's no statistical evidence in the article that says most of this is because of truckers. Furthermore, the person whom I was replying too said "most of them are" not "most of them in the state of washington." Even if the article made the statement using verifiable statistics that showed most of it comes from truckers, it still wouldn't be evidence telling us about the entire country.

[Tinkertoy]

Martin Hyde Given the way you feel about truck drivers I think the only ethical thing you can do is to Boycott them. Refuse to use anything ever carried on or in a truck.

That'll show em!

[Martin Hyde]

Martin Hyde Given the way you feel about truck drivers I think the only ethical thing you can do is to Boycott them. Refuse to use anything ever carried on or in a truck.

That'll show em!

I don't think on average ranch hands are the smartest people in the world but I'm not going to stop eating beef. I never said I didn't like truckers.

[SpazCat]

I try to do that, but people keep pulling into it. :D

Oh, that reminds me of another driving story. I was driving down a very slippery hill in the right-hand lane, a little below the speed limit because of road conditions. A guy was tailgating me all the way down, so I said to my passenger, "I'm going to let this guy pass me so he can have his accident somewhere else." I pulled over to the left lane, he whipped by me on the right, and promptly lost control and hit another car at the bottom of the hill. Ha! Sweet vindication!

I believe the technical term for that is "Instant Karma."

[Psycho Pirate]

Thanks for the answers, Lucy.
Every time I see a trucker doing this, I'd like to give him a cookie.
The ones you should be complaining about...<SNIP>I'm not just complaining about the truck drivers who act as the "merge police" while giving those who zoom to the front of the merge line a free pass. I think they are both irresponsible behaviors. Yes, E-Sabbath, I remember that discussion, but knowing that it is true intellectually is one thing, but being passed by some guy only to see him come to a dead stop at the merge point and slow down traffic is another thing. It is just hard to see how this is faster. It just seems to me that truck drivers are hired to move their load from point A to point B, not to act as the merge police.

My other question stemmed from my living near a truck scale. I live off of a major route that parallels a major interstate, and I often see a police car sitting at the bus stop where I live. More often than not, he has a semi pulled over in that wide area. The only reason I can think that this would be happening is that a truck has exited the interstate right before the truck scale with the thought of taking the side route to skip the truck scale with the intention of getting back on the interstate afterwards.

Which I guess brings me to my next question(s). How long does it take to go through a weigh station? Is it really something so bad as to be avoided at all costs? And if they are just trying to skip the scale because they are overweight, how prevalent is overloading?

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

It's interesting to hear from a long distance trucker. It's a job a lot of people wonder about but one meets so few truckers IRL. I know a little of the high desert area in NV; you must drive through some beautiful country on a regular basis.

Regarding the drivers who dart into your braking cushion...maybe you should put a big sign on your grille, in mirror image letters that says the following:

'DO YOU KNOW
HOW MUCH DAMAGE
MY TRUCK WOULD
EXPERIENCE
IF I LET IT ROLL
RIGHT OVER YOU?

NONE AT ALL.

(With apologies to Doug Adams). :D

[eleanorigby]

Great thread, I've learned alot.

My respect for truckers (or more accurately, my awareness of just what they have to deal with) came about when we took a family trip out West. We were on the Western Slope, taking I-80(?) into Denver. It was like a roller coaster ride, down and down and down. We came upone a HUGE sign that said, "Truckers, you're half way down". Egads. The thought of trying to control that amount of mass for that long AND combat RVs(which I hate), SUVs, and Mini-Coopers (and motorcycles etc)--makes my blood run cold.


I give you alot of credit.



BUT.


When I was a teenager, I drove my mother's stick shift Rabbit. Tiny little car-loved it. There are truckers out there who are just assholes--and IMO, they like to play games with blonde teen girl drivers. I had truckers so close to me that all I could see was grill--in a construction zone, no less! Thank God for the maneuvarability of the Rabbit, is all I can say.


Also, I drive I-80, 394 and the Dan Ryan alot. IMO, there is a difference between long distance haulers and these guys. The ones doing these routes seem to be in some kind of death game(hell, all the drivers out there are). I see much rudeness in that spaghetti bowl. Then again, if and when the damned construction ever ends, perhaps tempers will cool down.

and I love the trucker merge police--stop trying to get ahead in a dead end. Merge when you are told to merge, and make it smoother for all of us.

[St. Urho]

It's I-70, actually. There's a whole series of similar signs (http://www.geocities.com/mapguygk07/Misc/Truckers/). And as a question for Lucy do feel insulted seeing signs like that or are they helpful?

[PoorYorick]

I've had a couple of run ins on the road with truckers, but as other posters have noted, four wheel drivers are definitely the largest slice on the Asshole pie chart. Case in point: There's a bridge between Lafayette, LA and Baton Rouge, LA that's 18 miles long, mostly over swamp, with only one exit. We had a spate of several serious crashes so they lowered the speed limit to (if I remember correctly) 60 mph for cars and 55 mph for truckers.

You can predict what you see on the bridge. A long line of trucks in the right hand lane trudging along at 55 mph, and a gazillion cars driving as fast as they possibly can, buzzing in and out of the lanes like gnats. Needless to say, the lowered speed limit didn't do a thing but slow the trucks down. What they need is speed limit enforcement, although I'm not sure how they do that on an 18 mile long bridge short of air patrols.

[Lute Skywatcher]

What they need is speed limit enforcement, although I'm not sure how they do that on an 18 mile long bridge short of air patrols.European-style traffic cameras, the type that get a reasonably clear picture from three different angles.

[alice_in_wonderland]

This is a great thread!

When I was a kid I always got dragged on camping trips with the family, in the station wagon, pulling the trailer. My dad decided to get a CB partially for safety, and mostly for entertainment. Some of the conversations were totally R-rated, and from what I gather, women in skirts flapping the bippy in the breeze was a lot more common in the '70s...

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

A friend of mine, who has a CB radio in her pickup, was driving along the four-lane highway that runs through our town when she spotted a four-wheeler and two big trucks from the local sand and gravel operation just ahead, and heard the two truck drivers planning over the CB to play some head games with the woman driving the four-wheeler.

As they started to close in on her my friend yelled over the CB, "You guys better not do that or I'll call the dispatcher at B_______ W_______ and report you, so knock it off!" The trucks backed off, and stayed backed off the whole time my friend tailed them in her pickup, till they turned off to wherever they were bound.

Lucy, do you think this sort of assholery is more likely to be found in short-haul guys, or is it spread throughout the industry?

[LucyInDisguise]

You guys and gals are all way to kind. (Did ya'll notice that this is the Pit?) ;)

Okay ... here we go again.

Every time I see a trucker doing this, I'd like to give him a cookie.
I'm partial to oatmeal/raisin myself, but chocolate chip will do nicely, too. :D

(snip)Which I guess brings me to my next question(s). How long does it take to go through a weigh station?
Usually, it takes just a few seconds to roll the scale. Even if the port is backed up, it seldom takes more than a minute or two -- with a couple of exceptions:

#1: You may get asked to park, walk in, and show your permits and other legal documents to the port personnel. This will usually add about 5 minutes to a port call. In Wyoming, everybody goes in - this is the only state that I'm aware of that does this.

#1a: If your documents are not in order, hang it up ... you're gonna be there for a while.

#1b: If your log book is not up to date, or you are over on your hours, you're probably going to get a ticket, and in the later case, could be shut down for 8 hours. Either way, hang it up ... you're gonna be there for a while.

#2: If DOT is in the port, you could be selected for an inspection. There are 3 levels:
Level 1: Basically a simple walk around. Essentially not much more than what is required for pretrip and post trip inspections. Adds about 10 - 15 minutes.
Level 2: A little more involved, will add 15 to 30 minutes.
Level 3: Full blown inspection, will add 60 minutes.

And, if they find anything seriously wrong, your truck will be put out of service until necessary repairs are made.

Best way to describe the difference is this: Level 1, walk around. Level 2, walk around with a magnifying glass. Level 3, walk around with a microscope. And, yes, they even crawl up (you know where!)

Is it really something so bad as to be avoided at all costs?

No. Besides, if you try to bypass a port because the truck is overweight, odds are pretty good you'll just be adding additional fines for bypassing a scale to your overweight fine. (Hint: Law enforcement officers know all the possible bypass routes. Probability of getting caught is in excess of 80% ... what you said earlier in your post is pretty good evidence of that fact.)
And if they are just trying to skip the scale because they are overweight, how prevalent is overloading?

Not very prevalent at all, actually. Overloading your truck is a very foolish thing to do. In addition to the fixed scales at the ports, DOT inspectors carry portable scales in their vehicles. Overweight trucks are actually pretty easy to spot if you know what you're looking for.

And the fines can be ridiculous. I failed to scale my truck after loading back in, oh, I guess it would have been about 1996 when I was hauling equipment. Had 700 pounds of mud on the truck that I failed to account for. IF I had scaled the truck, I would have known that I was overweight and corrected the situation. 700 lbs. = $315.00 fine. Yep! That's 45 cents a pound for you calculator cripples. If I had been 1000 lbs. or more over the legal limit, the fine would have jumped to 65 cents per pound. And that was way back when Mr. Flintstone first got his radials. The fines are worse now. Oh, yeah, they don't let you leave until you have corrected the problem, and, at least here in NV and next door in UT, you must pay the fine before you leave the county. Policies and fines in other states vary.

(snip)Regarding the drivers who dart into your braking cushion...maybe you should put a big sign on your grille, in mirror image letters that says the following:

'DO YOU KNOW
HOW MUCH DAMAGE
MY TRUCK WOULD
EXPERIENCE
IF I LET IT ROLL
RIGHT OVER YOU?

NONE AT ALL.

(With apologies to Doug Adams).

I'm constantly amazed by the number of Doug Adams fans there are in this community. I'm currently half way thru the series for the umptienth time ... I doubt Doug would have had a problem with your parody, btw. :cool:

(snip) ...I love the trucker merge police(snip) ...

:D
It's I-70, actually. There's a whole series of similar signs. And as a question for Lucy do feel insulted seeing signs like that or are they helpful?

Not at all. Signs like these are very helpful to Drivers who have not traveled the route before, flat-lander Drivers (don't drive in the mountains much), and especially rookies. The signs on Donner Pass actually were written by Drivers and adopted and posted by CA, IIRC.

Next?

Lucy

[LucyInDisguise]

Whoa ... snuck in when I wasn't lookin'!
A friend of mine, who has a CB radio in her pickup, was driving along the four-lane highway that runs through our town when she spotted a four-wheeler and two big trucks from the local sand and gravel operation just ahead, and heard the two truck drivers planning over the CB to play some head games with the woman driving the four-wheeler.

As they started to close in on her my friend yelled over the CB, "You guys better not do that or I'll call the dispatcher at B_______ W_______ and report you, so knock it off!" The trucks backed off, and stayed backed off the whole time my friend tailed them in her pickup, till they turned off to wherever they were bound.

Frankly, I think your friend should have grabbed a coulple of truck numbers and called "B_______ W_______" and told them what she overheard and what happened when she challenged them.

When I was doin' dirt work back in the olden days, that kind of call would have gotten a coulple of drivers a day or two off.
Lucy, do you think this sort of assholery is more likely to be found in short-haul guys, or is it spread throughout the industry?

Short haul. Especially something like dirt work. Load. Drive to job site. Dump. Drive back to pit. Load. Wash, rinse, repeat as necessary. OG, what boring work it can become. I spent 3 years working on the I-15 Rebuild in Salt Lake City. Had to get out cause I think I was starting to lose IQ points. :D

Doesn't justify the kind of school yard stuff you described, though. Those guys need a break. Or should that be brake?

(as in, you know, a leg or kneecap or something ...)

:eek:

Lucy

[Rick]

You guys and gals are all way to kind. (Did ya'll notice that this is the Pit?) ;) OK, fuckty fuck fucking truck drivers. There, feel better? :D
Overweight trucks are actually pretty easy to spot if you know what you're looking for. Really? Do tell. With details and pictures if necessary.

[LucyInDisguise]

OK, fuckty fuck fucking truck drivers. There, feel better? :D
Really? Do tell. With details and pictures if necessary.

Probably should have saved a step and explained the first time ... :smack:

Trucks run on tires. Specifically rubber tires. Rubber tires that have sidewalls. Sidewalls that flex under load. When viewed from the rear, the tires bulge at the bottom. :D

Seriously though, experienced eyes get accustomed to how much space there is between the bulges on the dual tires with a legally loaded truck. Overweight trucks have significantly less space in that gap where the tires bulge. Very overweight trucks have almost none.

If there is a small gap between the tires on just one side, the truck probably just has a low or flat tire (this will also get you pulled over).

But if there is a small gap on both sides of the truck and/or on more than one axle ...




It's gotcha time. :eek:

Simple, huh?

Lucy

[LucyInDisguise]

Somebody needs to move the "Submit" button a little further away from the "Preview" button ...

::this was meant to have appeared right under 'Simple, huh'? ::

"And you thought you had a problem with 'tattletale bulges" ...

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Okay, here's one for ya:

Is it just their kids' names that truckers have painted on their cabs? Do they have their wife's name too? Do single truckers flaunt their girlfriend's name? Advertise the harem? :dubious:

[LucyInDisguise]

Okay, here's one for ya:

Is it just their kids' names that truckers have painted on their cabs? Do they have their wife's name too? Do single truckers flaunt their girlfriend's name? Advertise the harem? :dubious:

To be brutally honest, I've never paid any attention to that.

Guess I'll have to ask next time I see it.

'Course the last time I looked was about 5 years ago ... so this would not be a good time to practice holding your breath ...

:D

You guessed it. Chow & bed time again ...

Morrow.

Lucy

[jkirkman]

Just wanted to say I’ve loved this thread from the great OP to the (surprisingly) civilized discussion that has followed 8-).

I’ve never driven a big rig, but I drove a crew cab dually with a 40+ foot horse trailer for years, and learned a whole hell of a lot about what the pros were doing and why through observation and personal experience. I had a better turning radius than the big boys, and better acceleration than the loaded ones, but they had a lot better brakes, especially as I had horses on board and was always trying to be smooth.

The Pros were always fantastically nice to me, both on the road and at the gas stations. On long hauls I’d try to do the bulk of the miles after midnight when I only had to share the road with the long-haulers--we understood each other.

We don’t have much terrain in the deep south, but every October I’d be hauling up to Columbus, Ohio for Congress, and I-75 at the Tennessee—Kentucky border is a serious cumulative grade. It’s not one long uphill run, but a series of ups and downs that always results in more altitude. If you ever lifted you were screwed and doomed to driving at 35 mph until you got over the top. It was common place to be doing 85 mph on a short downhill then 45 up the other side. The Pros would be passing at 38 mph vs 35 in the slow lane 8-). In daylight it would have been a major PITA, but at 1 am it was very professional.

These days, I drive a CR-V and always cut the Pros some slack—they are AT WORK and I am on my way to work. I can easily give up the 30 seconds to cut them into my lane.

[Dag Otto]

Ok, I have a few questions:

I used to drive with high beams on when I was on the interstate, especially on I-25 in NM, which had very little traffic about 15 years ago, and the only people who flashed their brights back (indicating that they were bothered by my lights) would be truckers. Mind you, this was on a divided highway, and as a car driver bright lights in the other lane never bother me (as opposed to a undivided highway). So, do you guys get a lot more glare up there?

Speaking of night driving, how much harder is it to judge traffic in your mirrors at night?

And since we're talking about night driving, what's up with the occassional truck that has about a billion running lights on it? Is that the trucker's version of spinners?

Is there really a fire extinguisher on board? Can I use it? :D

[Taters]

Ok, I have a few questions:

I used to drive with high beams on when I was on the interstate, especially on I-25 in NM, which had very little traffic about 15 years ago, and the only people who flashed their brights back (indicating that they were bothered by my lights) would be truckers. Mind you, this was on a divided highway, and as a car driver bright lights in the other lane never bother me (as opposed to a undivided highway). So, do you guys get a lot more glare up there?

Speaking of night driving, how much harder is it to judge traffic in your mirrors at night?

And since we're talking about night driving, what's up with the occassional truck that has about a billion running lights on it? Is that the trucker's version of spinners?

Is there really a fire extinguisher on board? Can I use it? :D

I can't speak for the bazillion running lights, but yes there is always a fire extinguisher on board. It is required safety equipment.

My husband once helped put out a car fire (or at least keep it under control) when he happened upon an accident.

[Bookkeeper]

Just wanted to say that this is a very interesting and informative thread - just what I come hear to find (well, usually not here in the Pit - I come here for the entertainment value :D , but to the SDMB in general).

A couple of questions. Here in Ontario (401, 416, 417), the truck inspection stations I see are usually closed. They appear to manned only part time and there are warning signs that illuminate to tell truckers to stop for inspection when they are open. Is this common?

I also usually see a trailer or three, and often a full rig parked at the inspection stations. Am I correct in thinking these are ones that have been pulled out of service after failing a safety inspection?

[Maus Magill]

Because we're still in the Pit: Stupid fucking truck drivers who have a hard job, and haul things I use across the country. They all must drive!

I always let semis in front of me on the highway out of a combination of respect for guys doing a hard job and fear of flaming death. I don't like flaming death. It hurts.

Also, I don't want to piss these guys off. My father told me what can happen:

When my father was in college, he would hitchhike home to Winston-Salem from Raleigh (you could do that in the 60s). He would often ride with truckers. One night, he was hitch-hiking up US-421, which could get pretty hilly between Greensboro and Winston, and a truck picked him up. They were cruising along when a car full up high school kids passed in front of them.

At the base of every hill, they would slow down to 20 mph. At the crest, they would accelerate and zip down to wait for the truck at the base. Rinse and repeat.

After the forth or fifth time, the truck just pulled along side the car, and --==BUMP==--.

The trucker never said anything; he just stared straight ahead.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

?
Oh, yeah. "The Truck Drivers".

Swift. The most inappropriately named trucking company in the universe. (And don't blame the drivers. 10 under the speed limit is company policy.) 'Nuff said.



I gotta ask, as you're a professional truck driver, what's your opinion of those articulated Swift trucks? To me they look like they'd flip over or jackknife in a heartbeat.

[Tinkertoy]

I hope you won't mind if I try to answer a couple of these.

And since we're talking about night driving, what's up with the occassional truck that has about a billion running lights on it? Is that the trucker's version of spinners?
There are certain lights that are required, the rest are just decoration. Usually the rig that is that decorated is driver owned, as many company trucks change trailers frequently.

I also usually see a trailer or three, and often a full rig parked at the inspection stations. Am I correct in thinking these are ones that have been pulled out of service after failing a safety inspection?
Some have failed inspection, some are pulled off for log book violation (can't drive for 8 hrs.) and sometimes there are a few parking spots for trucks to be parked while drivers sleep.

Oh! and the question about fire extingishers they are required equipment. My husband has never used his on his truck but for several other cars and trucks (he spends alot of time on Donner Pass).

[Klaatu]

Great thread. I was wondering how easy it is to back up a double.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hi Kids, I'm back ...

Sorry it took so long to get back to you ... I just had two days that fall under the heading "Nightmare Day From Hell" culminating yesterday with a blizzard that blew in with 60 mph gusts that blew me off the top of my truck (Owie, Owie, Owie!)

First, to all those who didn't post an actual question, but posted a story or supportive comment, thanks.

Second,Tinkertoy, good job. You can pinch hit for me anytime ...

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program:

Ok, I have a few questions:

I used to drive with high beams on when I was on the interstate, especially on I-25 in NM, which had very little traffic about 15 years ago, and the only people who flashed their brights back (indicating that they were bothered by my lights) would be truckers. Mind you, this was on a divided highway, and as a car driver bright lights in the other lane never bother me (as opposed to a undivided highway). So, do you guys get a lot more glare up there?

You just found one of my favorite 'pet peeves' that I almost put in my OP. So what is it? Just too much trouble to flip the switch and dim the lights for a few moments? HOT NEWS FLASH! It ain't just us up here, everybody with normal night vision gets blinded by those high beams, most people are just too courteous to blind you trying to get you to dim your headlights! Goes double for when you are coming up behind other drivers. Make that triple. I find myself real tempted to rotate my mirrors to see if I can reflect the light right back at you and so I don't have to stare into those spotlights for 15 minutes while you're overtaking me ...

Speaking of night driving, how much harder is it to judge traffic in your mirrors at night?

Gets a little tough sometimes - rain, snow, sleet, hail, (HIGH beams) - all make it a bit tougher. Over time, experience teaches you how to compensate.
And since we're talking about night driving, what's up with the occassional truck that has about a billion running lights on it? Is that the trucker's version of spinners?

Yup, ya hit it right on the head. It's all pretty much an ego thing. I like Tinkertoy's answer too. I'll add just two more thoughts:

1. That many lights are really hard on alternators - even with the super-duper heavy duty alternators - you can plan on replacing them frequently.
2. They really annoy the hell out of the rest of us. "Why?" you ask. 'Cause we're driving company owned trucks and the company won't pay for them, mostly because (See #1 above)

Is there really a fire extinguisher on board? Can I use it?

Yes. And no, you can't use it.

'Cause I think you just want to play with it! :D

Besides, if you really need it, you're probably going to be a little too stressed out to use it properly, so if you'll just stand aside, I'll do it, thank you very much! BTW, why don't you have your own? (Even though Taters's answer is technically correct, I just had to add that.)

I've had you use my extinguisher four times during my career. Three times to extinguish fires, once to hold the flames at bay until other motorists could help get the people out of the RV. It ultimately burned to the ground - it was a very intense fire. Nearest fire truck was 130 miles away. Have you checked your fire extinguisher recently? (What do you mean you don't have one ...?)

I also usually see a trailer or three, and often a full rig parked at the inspection stations. Am I correct in thinking these are ones that have been pulled out of service after failing a safety inspection?

Tinkertoy's answer is correct, with one more possible reason: in bad weather (ice, snow), in most areas triples are required to drop their third trailer (and in some jurisdictions, doubles are required to drop their second).

Oh, and it could be that the Driver found something wrong with the trailer and dropped it for that reason.
Great thread. I was wondering how easy it is to back up a double.

Great quote I heard (with apologies to who ever said this, cause I'm not going to take the time go look up right now) went something like "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle ..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay. New business. And I not trying to hijack my own thread. There are a couple of points that I feel need to be made about Commercial Drivers that will answer and (or) generate a lot of questions, soooooo,

I'm going to ask you to spend a few moments reading two very short articles. Think about them for a few minutes, then comment. The first is quoted below, link to the second follows.


I know we aren't supposed to quote copy righted articles in their entirety, but I've been arguing with the editor(s) of the Elko Daily Free Press (http://www.elkodaily.com) for a week now, and so far I have been unable to get them to put this article on line. At first they said they couldn't understand why I couldn't find it. Then they said they couldn't understand why it wasn't there. Now, it's just not going to get put on line. No explanation other than "the follow up article is on line and that's good enough."

What can I say? Rural newspaper.


So, with proper credit given, here is the original article:

Battle Mountain teen hurt

ELKO - A Battle Mountain teen was seriously injured Thursday after his vehicle hit a tractor trailer head-on while trying to pass a slower moving truck.

Matthew C. Stoddard, 18, was driving westbound in a Chevrolet Cavalier on Frontage Road 402 north of Interstate 80 at 3 p.m., according to Nevada Highway Patrol report.

"Stoddard, while passing a slower moving truck to the left, failed to yield the right of way to an oncoming tractor trailer rig hauling dirt," said Nevada Highway Patrol trooper Rocky Gonzalez.

The rig, driven by Doris Y. McClain, 47, of Laredo, Mo., was unable to avoid the collision and struck the left front of the car.

After the impact, the Cavalier veered to the north road edge, coming to rest on its wheels. The rig veered to the south edge and continued through the right of way fence entering I-80.

The tractor trailer then went across both westbound interstate lanes and came to rest in the median where an electrical fire in the engine compartment was "quickly extinguished," Gonzalez said.

Stoddard was extricated from the wreckage.

He suffered numerous injuries and was air lifted. to Northeastern Nevada Regional Hospital.

McClain was not injured. By Marianne Kobak


Okay, here is the link (http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2006/03/01/news/local_news/news2.txt) to the second article. This one has a picture. (Note the hole in the driver's side windshield.)

I am not going to comment on these articles just yet. I know what my opinion is - I want to hear yours. Specifically, what I'd like to hear from you is this:
What do you think was the primary cause of each wreck.
What citation or penalty should the individual receive.

To avoid confusion, when making your comments please refer to the first as 'Teen' and the second as 'Bus Driver'

I will link to the follow up articles later. Don't bother trying to use the search on their site, it sucks. (As in, "Google, it ain't" -- unless you know the exact words used in the headline AND the publication date, you'll probably not find it any way. If you're lucky enough to find them, Shhhhhhh. Give everyone a chance to offer their opion first ...

Hey, I gotta go unload my truck - yesterday's snow storm prevented me from getting to my tank farm -- be back in a few hours.

Lucy

[St. Urho]

[total hijack]
So do you live up in/near Elko? I was up there on some of the wildfires in 2001
[/hijack]

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Based on what evidence we have here it appears both the teen and the bus driver misjudged their attempts to pass the vehicle ahead of them.

Am I right that the teen was driving on a road which was pretty much straight and with unobstructed views well ahead? If so, then he tried to pass when he hadn't enough time/distance to beat the oncoming truck. Citation/penalty? Driving to endanger for the teen? Certainly his injuries are quite a punishment.

Assuming in the second case that the truck driver didn't abruptly slow down, then it would appear that the bus driver misjudged his angle when pulling out to pass and clipped the back of the ore truck. I'm also wondering whether the bus driver was following too close. I take it that round hole is where a chunk of ore flew off the truck into the bus? Citation/penalty? Not sure, although I wonder if the ore truck driver got a citation for an improperly secured tarp?

[Rick]

Unless the DA is a really nice guy I can see the teen going down for reckless driving. Probably not felony since the only injuries were to the teen himself. If they want to go for the pile on add unsafe lane change, failure to yield, and speeding (assuming he got over whatever the speed limit was on the frontage road)
On the bus driver for sure the guy gets a following too close, maybe an illegal lane change.
Since you chose those two articles to link I am going to guess that in both cases the truck driver got charged with littering. :)

Yesterday afternoon on my way home I started to pay attention to the tire bludges. Sure enough I spoted local (box) delivery truck that was loosing his inner right dual tire. I also notice that this truck was crabbing down the road. While directly behind him I could see the left side of his truck. Was the low right rear tire casuing his truck to crab? Or was this just a truck with the worst wheel alignment I have ever seen?
Also you you have any suggestions about how to alert the driver? I pulled along side honked and pointed at his tire, he looked at me like I had a 3rd eye in the middle of my forehead.

[LucyInDisguise]

Okay. I got to thinking about this after I got out on the road this morning. Need to add some details that were omitted from the articles in an attempt to clear up some (possible) misinterpretations/misconceptions.

Teen:

Terrain: Generally flat and level with a little minor undulation common to all such roads.

Weather: Clear blue sky. Calm. Midday sun. Visibility only limited by eyesight.

Road: Clear and dry. Frontage road is a two lane bi-directional road (originally part of U. S. Hwy. 40 before they built the Interstate). No emergency lane or hard shoulder worth noting. This section of the road is straight except for one bend in the road where the wreck took place. This is not a radical curve, rather, the type of curve no one would feel uncomfortable taking at 75 - 80 m.p.h. Interstate 80 lies 70 feet to the south of the hard pavement and runs parallel to the frontage road. The fence separating the the two roadways is approx. 20 feet from the south edge of the pavement, and about 50 feet from the north edge of the westbound lanes of I-80.

Speed limit: 70 m.p.h.

================================================

Bus:

Terrain: 6% grade. Warning Signs posted with flashing lights at bottom of grade, and periodically all the way up the hill, warning of slow moving trucks.

Weather: Clear blue sky. Slight 10 mph breeze out of the south. Approximately 20 minutes after sunrise. Visibility only limited by eyesight.

Road: Clear and Dry Interstate Highway. 2 lanes each direction (No Truck Lane) Straight road, vision ahead unrestricted by terrain.

Direction of travel: Both vehicles were traveling Eastbound.

Speed limit: 75 m.p.h.

=================================================
[total hijack]
So do you live up in/near Elko? I was up there on some of the wildfires in 2001
[/hijack]

About 7 miles East of Elko. You missed some real fun fires here last summer ...

(snip) Yesterday afternoon on my way home I started to pay attention to the tire bludges. Sure enough I spoted local (box) delivery truck that was loosing his inner right dual tire. I also notice that this truck was crabbing down the road. While directly behind him I could see the left side of his truck. Was the low right rear tire casuing his truck to crab? Or was this just a truck with the worst wheel alignment I have ever seen? ...

The crabbing is definitely an alignment problem. (In this case, the left rear drive wheels are slightly ahead of the right drive wheels.

... Also you you have any suggestions about how to alert the driver? I pulled along side honked and pointed at his tire, he looked at me like I had a 3rd eye in the middle of my forehead.


Nope, no real good suggestions beyond some hand signals. If you have a passenger that can make the signal, use one hand to make a "tire" on top of the other hand to symbolize the "ground" - then flaten the "tire". Most Drivers will get the hint. [Disclaimer: Do not try this if you are driving. Unless your name is Zaphod and you happen to have a third arm to hold the steering wheel.]

Woulda sworn that was a third eye ... :eek:

I will link to the follow-up articles tomorrow. In the meantime, I'll be around to answer any other questions that may pop up. Also, I have my marshmallows and chocolate ready incase anyone really wants to flame. :D

Lucy

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

I take it that round hole is where a chunk of ore flew off the truck into the bus? Citation/penalty? Not sure, although I wonder if the ore truck driver got a citation for an improperly secured tarp? Chewing this over as I drove to and from the barn earlier, it occurred to me to wonder: Did a poorly secured load cover cause a chunk of ore to fly out, smash through the bus driver's window, startle him into swerving left to keep from getting hit in the face, and thereby cause the accident? Would the bus have to have been following too close to make this possible, or could the ore chunk have hit and bounced up?

So, just how long ya gonna keep us in suspense, huh? Might could get some fiery language outta us if you tease us too long, mister. :mad:

[LucyInDisguise]

Chewing this over as I drove to and from the barn earlier, it occurred to me to wonder: Did a poorly secured load cover cause a chunk of ore to fly out, smash through the bus driver's window, startle him into swerving left to keep from getting hit in the face, and thereby cause the accident? Would the bus have to have been following too close to make this possible, or could the ore chunk have hit and bounced up?

No, the hole was not caused by a chunk of ore. The load and tarp were properly secured. The hole was created by the bar that holds the tarp in place.

(These tarps are kinda like those old-fashioned window shades. Rolled up on a spring loaded bar and attached to a motor driven bar that pulles tarp over the load when activated, and the spring tension pulls it back when deactivated. It was the bar on the motor driven arm that damn near skewered the bus driver's head.)

This was mentioned in the article but you probably missed it. It was, after all, in the last paragraph. (The last of just six paragraphs - short attention span? :D :D :D )

So, just how long ya gonna keep us in suspense, huh? Might could get some fiery language outta us if you tease us too long, mister. :mad:

Not too much longer - would kina like to see some more opinions first.

Meanwhile ...

Time for a little background, just so y'all have some idea about what got me going on these two articles in particular. You may not realize this, but I (quite literally) work right along side most of these Drivers.

With regard to the bus wreck, K-T Services is one of my customers, as is the company that owns the side-dump that was rear ended. I called K-T Services in the hope of getting the bus driver's side of what happened, but the Safety Director, whom I know quite well, politely but firmly (and, I should add, understandably) dodged my questions. (Hey, I had to try, I'm a bit of snoop about such things ...)

I did get to talk briefly on the CB with Ron (the Driver of the side-dump). His side of the story cracked me up. I'll get to that a little later.

The 'Teen' article caught my eye last Saturday when I was reading the Weekend Edition of the paper. I let it pass, like most people would, as just another wreck.

On the following Monday, I had an opportunity to speak one of the Drivers that was involved in this incident. The driver, who for the purposes of this discussion I will call "Doug", works for a company that I work closely with. They deliver fuel, antifreeze and lubricants to the mines, I pick up the oil/antifreeze after it has been used. We frequently have lots of time to stand around and bullshit while loading/unloading our cargoes.

Doug was the Professional Driver operating the "slower moving truck" (SMT). No where in either article are his efforts mentioned. In fact, the SMT goes almost unmentioned in the article, except as the vehicle being passed.

The SMT was in fact a super tanker loaded with 10,221 gallons of diesel fuel. Doug had just finished loading his truck at their company's rack located at Dunphy, NV (about 5 miles East of where the wreck occurred). The gross weight of his truck when he scaled out was 123,840 pounds. He was traveling at his trucks governed speed of 68 m.p.h. (Slower. Moving. Truck. Hint, Hint, Hint!) :dubious:

I really believe that his heroic efforts at getting that rig stopped need to be mentioned here. He managed to get that rig stopped just a scant 9" from where the Cavalier came to rest, and he never made contact with that vehicle. Fact is, I'm not all that certain that I could have done it. (Doug said he wasn't sure he could do it, either - and is pretty certain that he could not duplicate the feat!) Doug is also the individual that called in the wreck on his cell phone and got emergency vehicles headed out. "ATTABOY, DOUG!"

What Doug told me about the wreck did not jive real well with the newspaper article. There were some major omissions. This got me thinking hard about the whole thing. This discussion with Doug was followed by two, admittedly fortuitous, events.


Notice that these types of wrecks tend to attract every Highway Patrolman that can get there before the last vehicle is towed away. In this case, there were seven Patrolmen on the scene, and three of those are listed as official Investigating Officers on the report.


While I've met Rocky on several occasions, I have not, as yet, had an opportunity to speak with him about this incident. However, on Wednesday, I was able to buy one of the other investigating officers a donut and a cup of coffee and spend about an hour picking her brain and clarifing a few more facts. What I learned was very interesting, the type of stuff you almost never get to hear about. I will relate some of what she told me later.

The second event occurred on Thursday. The company that Doris works for happens to be a client of mine. I was able to speak at length with her supervisor and actually see her truck while I was loading their oil. Interesting also. Details a little later.

Lucy

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

No, the hole was not caused by a chunk of ore. The load and tarp were properly secured. The hole was created by the bar that holds the tarp in place.

(These tarps are kinda like those old-fashioned window shades. Rolled up on a spring loaded bar and attached to a motor driven bar that pulles tarp over the load when activated, and the spring tension pulls it back when deactivated. It was the bar on the motor driven arm that damn near skewered the bus driver's head.)

This was mentioned in the article but you probably missed it. It was, after all, in the last paragraph. (The last of just six paragraphs - short attention span? :D :D :D :p yourself, mileageboy -- here's the last para of that story, which I did read: Pacheco said there were no vehicles in the passing lane when the K-T bus hit him. He said the driver was lucky that he wasn’t struck when his rear tarp broke through the windshield, creating a round hole directly to the right of the driver’s head. Now, just where in Hades is there any mention of a bar in them there words, huh? Huh? :mad:

Just because you know there'd be a bar involved doesn't mean those of us who've never driven an ore truck would know, ya know. ;) I was just trying to figure out how the blazes would a tarp make a hole like that?

Okay, off to read the rest of your post, see if there's any more nits I'm minded to pick. :D

[eleanorigby]

I'm sorry, this may be obvious, but how does one know that it IS a SMT? No offense, but except for the double trailers out there, one 18 wheeler looks much the same to me.

I never knew about trucks being governed before--it explains alot.

[LucyInDisguise]

I'm sorry, this may be obvious, but how does one know that it IS a SMT? No offense, but except for the double trailers out there, one 18 wheeler looks much the same to me.

I never knew about trucks being governed before--it explains alot.
As to how one knows that it IS a SMT, stand by for my next post in a couple of minutes. It should explain a lot ...

EddyTeddyFreddy, ya gotta know I was jus' pullin' yer leg. Or something.

Anyway ...

Please Stand By ...

The post you asked for is coming right up.


(Go get your coffee ready.)

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

EddyTeddyFreddy, ya gotta know I was jus' pullin' yer leg. Or something. It better not be my tail, tail, tail. (http://community.webshots.com/photo/782975/1000784357000735275) ;)

[LucyInDisguise]

Well, the time has come - I was hoping for more comments, but - oh, well ...

This is bound to be long, so please, bear with me. What I'm about to relate are the facts regarding the 'Teen' wreck, as related to me by one of the investigating officers and my associate, "Doug".

First, playing the part of the Slower Moving Truck (SMT), we have Doug in a super tanker loaded with 10,221 gallons of diesel fuel traveling Eastbound on Frontage Road 402.

Following the SMT is Matthew C. Stoddard, 18, driving a Chevrolet Cavalier.

Approaching from the West at 70 m.p.h. is Doris Y. McClain, 47, driving a Freightliner which is pulling a single bellydump trailer loaded with 25 tons of road base (dirt).

SMT and Mr.Stoddard are approaching a modest curve in the road. Mr. Stoddard initiates a passing maneuver by pulling into the on-coming traffic lane, apparently not having taken notice that there is a bellydump approaching from the opposite direction.

Doug, having an unobstructed view ahead, can see the bellydump approaching. At the moment he notices the car initiate the passing maneuver, Doug immediately makes some quick mental calculations and comes to the conclusion that there is insufficient time or space for the car to complete the maneuver safely. Doug initiates a panic stop. At this time Mr. Stoddard apparently is still trying to accelerate and either fails to take notice of the tankers panic stop, or fails to act on the observation.

Meanwhile, Doris can see the super tanker coming towards her as well as the car that is following. When she momentarily losses sight of the vehicle that was following the tanker, she initially presumes it is due the angle of sight from her perspective, still, she puts herself on "high alert" because she can't see the car. Her first real indication that something is amiss is when she sees the tanker's tires start smoking and realizes that the tanker has just initiated a panic stop. At this moment, it will still be approximately 1/2 second before she is able to see the vehicle coming at her in her lane. Doris immediately evaluated the information she had at hand and concluded that she should also initiate a stop.

In her statement to the investigating officer, she said that she did not know why the tanker was in the panic stop mode, but seeing as she was less than 2 seconds away from the tanker, whatever was causing the tanker to stop could potentially affect her. She concluded that needed an escape route, and she needed it NOW. Going to her left was not an option as this would have put her on a collision course with the super tanker, so going right was her best and only option. She quickly glanced at the Interstate and scanned the traffic, noting the presence of 4 vehicles in the Westbound traffic lanes. When she glanced back, she saw the car coming at her in her lane, and knew she had to make a decision.

The investigating officer estimated that at this moment, Doris was less than one second away from impact with the Cavalier.

Doris made the only decision possible: to sacrifice her rig, her cargo, and herself in an effort to save the life of the car's driver and passengers (she did not know there were no passengers in that car). However, she could not leave the pavement just yet. Even though she had reduced her speed somewhat, her momentum would still carry her rig through the barrow pit and into the Westbound travel lanes of the Interstate - the problem: those four cars on the Interstate would be directly in her path. She'd have to delay her movement just a half a heartbeat more before leaving the roadway. That moment's delay would mean a glancing, yet head-on blow to the Cavalier, but would ensure the safety of the occupants of those four cars on the Interstate.

Six different witnesses agreed on this one point: Doris only missed that last car by less than one foot, and that only because the driver of that fourth car saw her coming and punched the gas pedal. The bellydump came to rest in the median, where it caught fire. Doris immediately exited her truck and extinguished the fire.

The investigating officer measured the distance from the skid marks [made by the Cavalier just as it came to rest on the North edge of the frontage road], to the front bumper of the super tanker where it had come to a stop.

Nine inches. Doug had just missed hitting the Cavalier a second time by just nine. little. inches!

No one will ever know why Mr. Stoddard failed to hit his brakes when the super tanker went into the panic stop. No one will ever know why he accelerated instead.

Speculation: Simple error? Maybe. Inexperience? Perhaps. Inadequate driver training? Possible.

But we'll never really know.

You see, that is because Mr. Stoddard paid the ultimate penalty (http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2006/03/02/news/local_news/news9.txt) for his error.

Now let me give you some of the back story.

When Doug and I first talked about this, he chuckled at the very misleading description of "Slower Moving Truck" that was given in the newspaper account of this incident. He said, and this is a direct quote, "It was only a 'slower moving truck' in the sense that it was moving slower than the kid wanted to go. I was doing 68 goddamn miles per fucking hour and this kid couldn't wait a few more seconds for a straight road and a clearer view!"

Doug was fine with his part in all of this. He was satisfied that he had done all he could. That is, he was okay with it until he found out that Mr. Stoddard had died - Doug's boss told me last night that Doug has requested a few days off ...

I was genuinely surprised at how little damage there was to the bellydump. On the left front side of the truck the bumper is bent, the left front fiberglass cowling, hood and fender are shattered, as are both headlights on that side. If that were the only damage to the rig, just $1725.00 in parts and labor would have it ready to be put back on the road. The trip across the Interstate inflicted a lot more damage to the rig than the collision. That truck ain't goin' nowhere for quite a while.

Doris' supervisor told me that she made a valiant effort to "climb back up on the horse" last Monday. Went home after one load. Came back and did busy work around the shop on Tuesday, and made another valiant attempt to saddle up again Wednesday. Went home at lunch time. Called in 'sick' Thursday morning. Called later that afternoon (about the time I was there loading oil) and asked for a few days off. When I talked with her boss this morning he told me that she has now requested an indeterminate leave of absence.

Sad. Neither Doug or Doris did anything wrong. In fact, investigators insist that these Professional Drivers' skills were what gave this teen a fighting chance (even if he did ultimately lose that fight). In their place, I would have made every attempt to do exactly what they did - right down to the decision to sacrifice myself, my rig, and my load.

As you can now see, there was an awful lot of information that never made it into that article. As is the case with many such articles. Never assume that the newspaper has all of the facts, or even if they do that they told the whole story. The original story was just 'filler' that day, anyway. If they had sold one more ad space on that page, we probably would never have heard about Matthew C. Stoddard.

There isn't much more to add, except my opinion, for whatever that may be worth.

Look. We all do stupid shit. I've done stupid shit. :wally I'll do stupid shit in the future. :wally Hell, I opened this thread because of all of the stupid shit I see drivers of all vehicles do every hour of everyday. It makes ya go a little nuts. But no one should have to die as the penalty for their stupid act.

I'm certain that Mr. Stoddard was not stupid. He just made a mistake. He failed to evaluate all of the possible consequences of his intended action, and it got him killed. Too bad there are no Mulligan's in real life.

If you learn nothing else from Mr. Stoddard, learn this:

A passenger car is no match for an 80,000 pound truck.

Right or wrong.

Your mistake or theirs.

It ain't even gonna be a contest.



Sorry, this one's more than just a little emotionally intense for me. Gonna take a little break before I do the thing with the bus.

Lucy

[LucyInDisguise]

Now it's time for "Fun With Bus Drivers". :D

I don't know what this guy was doing, but he was not doing his job. The only real information I got outside of what's in the newspaper article is what I learned from talkin' to Ron, the driver of the truck that got rear-ended.

Some quick background info:

First, these sidedump ore trucks are heavy. Real heavy. 129,000 lbs. of gold ore heavy. Consequently, they don't move very fast going up hill.

Second, there are a lot of them. Three companies running a total of more than 150 trucks. All of them are doubled up sidedumps. All of them have strobe lights on the front, and 4 to 6 flashing yellow lights at the rear of the second trailer. It's not like you can't see 'em, day or night.

Third, these trucks run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It's not like there are a lot of times when they're not out and about.

Fourth, these trucks are running at approximately 10 minute intervals. Gettin' so ya can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

Finally, just like me, the buses run right along side these ore trucks. They're always in the way. You're always passing them on the hills. Did I mention that those trucks are heavy? Best speed going up steep hills is about 20 to 28 m.p.h., depending on the truck, the weather, road conditions and the experience of the Driver.

True, the bus driver was driving directly into the sunrise.

True, it's tough to see much of anything when you've got the sun right in the middle of your windshield.

Still ...

Ron told me that he was watching this bus come up behind him. Aware that the bus driver might have difficulty seeing his truck, he ambled on over to the extreme right side of his travel lane. The bus was coming fast. Ron estimated that he was going at least 65, probably a little more.

Ron couldn't understand why the bus wasn't moving over. There was no other traffic for at least a mile in either direction. He soon got worried that the bus wasn't going to get moved over in time, so he started moving over into the emergency lane.

Ahhhh, did I mention that these ore trucks don't move too fast going up hill?

Bang.

(BTW, did anybody notice in the picture that the extreme left rear wheel and tire from Ron's #2 trailer were imbedded in the front of the bus? There was about 40 m.p.h. difference in their respective travel speeds. Kinda like driving into a very sturdy wall at 40 m.p.h. It was quite an impact. It could have been a real disaster: Ron damn near spilled his coffee!)

Ron was worried that there were passengers on board the bus so he jumped out of his truck and ran back to the bus. Damn near got run over by a car on the way.

Relieved to discover that there were no passengers on the bus, Ron turned his attention to the driver.

Who looked like a ghost. :eek:

Ron said the driver was so pale that he initially thought the driver was dead. After determining that the driver had only suffered minor injuries, Ron proceeded to unload on this hapless soul, adding what he felt would be just the right measure of insult to go along with the injuries. Guy had to be feeling an awful lot like Arthur Dent. :D

(As I drove by the accident scene this morning, I noticed that the bus left a grand total of about 2 feet of skid marks. That had to be one hell of a wake-up call ...) :eek:

Note: The newspaper article leaves the impression that Ron's rig had to be "towed away", ostensibly by a tow truck. This is not what happened.

Ron waited while 2 very talented field service mechanics from his company put the trailer back together well enough that, with a Highway Patrol escort, Ron was able to complete his run, dump his load in the appropriate location and return to the yard.

Ron spent the next couple of hours regaling his fellow drivers with tales of his exploits. Much at the expense of the bus driver, I would imagine. :p

So, was the driver asleep? Just not paying attention? Maybe just another idiot? The Nevada Highway Patrol had something to say (http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2006/03/02/news/local_news/news4.txt) about it.

Due care, indeed ...

So, what say you all?

Will justice, in fact, be served? :dubious:

I'll check back tomorrow to tally the chuckles. I mean votes ...

G'Night All.

Lucy

[Tinkertoy]

Lucy While this thread is still going I wanted to tell you about an experience of mine. Hubby had told me about one of their drivers having an accident with some teenagers who pulled in front of him too closely, no one was killed but it was close. A co-worker and I were discussing it when the school’s drivers-ed instructor came in to the library, so I ask him what they teach the students about driving around trucks and he said “It’s not any different driving around trucks than any other vehicles” :eek: . I had to pick my chin up off the floor before I could give him a piece of my mind. We’re now trying to get the school district to allow us bring truck drivers in to talk to every drivers-ed class. Fortunately we have plenty of volunteers. I hope they agree to make it a part of the class.

[Rick]

When I was in college I drove a fuel truck for a Union Oil distributor. My job was to go out and refuel the bottom dump trucks (mostly duals, but there were a few super singles) These trucks were running 12" sideboards and had permits to gross 82,000. They ran a steady 45-50 mph up and down the route for the new freeway. Flagmen stopped cross traffic at each road they crossed.
One afternoon Bob didn't show for a refuel. I asked and was told that a couple of rednecks ran a flagman and got t-boned by Bob when he was fully loaded. When Bob did show, his bumper was bent, a headlight broken, and the fiberglass hood was cracked. It did not look like much of anything had happened to his truck. The rednecks? Both dead, their full size pickup was less than half it original width.
Moral of this story?
Don't fuck with 82,000 lbs. you will lose.

[SpazCat]

So just how far back should I be from a truck? How far in front of one? I have problems judging distance sometimes and I want to make sure I'm not one of the assholes Lucy was griping about in the OP.

[Lute Skywatcher]

So just how far back should I be from a truck?I'm guessing at least far enough to see both mirrors. :D

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Thanks for the full stories, Lucy. You're right, we rarely if ever do get the full story on stuff like that.

Not entirely off-topic: When I commuted into Boston regularly, I got chummy with the regular conductor on my usual train. Since it was a non-rush-hour run he had time to chat. We sometimes talked about trains hitting the living -- two and four-legged -- and what it does to the crew when it happens (not if -- he said anyone working the railroad for a respectable amount of time will have this happen to them). Shakes the hell out of them, as you can imagine. The engineer's got the same problem as truck drivers of immense mass with huge inertia creating tremendous stopping distances, and of course is locked into one path.

One time we were creeping through a section we normally would take at a good clip, then halted. Being a nosy sumbitch, I went up to the front of the train to see what was up. On this run, the engine was at the rear and the engineer ran the beast from controls in the vestibule of the leading passenger car.

Turned out there was a big-ass tree down across the tracks -- one of those jaggedy-branched pines, blown down by the wind, caught on other trees across the tracks that held it slanted high enough for some of those sharp branch ends to smash through the vestibule window right at engineer-body height. Just to up the ante, it was about a dozen yards past a stone bridge over the single set of tracks, so that if the train were running at full speed, the engineer wouldn't have been likely to see it until he was almost on top of it.

Fortunately, someone had seen it down and called it in, so the engineer got radioed warning before we got there. We arrived as the clearance crew was just beginning to work. I got a chance to chat briefly with the engineer, about how it was a classic case of throw the emergency stop switch and run like hell for the rear.

That must be how it is sometimes for truck drivers: You see disaster leap up in front of you, you do what you can, and the laws of physics take over from there.

[Siege]

Lucy, the drivers in the incidents you described have my condolences. I'm not sure what else to say.

I understand getting impatient with trucks; I've been stuck behind tanker trucks on a hilly stretch of highway with no passing zones for five miles or so; I've waited while a less-skilled driver needs a few tries to successfully negotiate a 90 degree turn onto an on ramp while I'm trying to get lunch or go home. I've even managed to have a morning's work fouled up because a truck driver on a straight, level stretch of road in an industrial area somehow managed to clip a telephone pole. (IT types like me have a bit less to do if the business has no electricity.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to maneuver a truck on some of the narrow streets around here. You guys have a tough job, and I do appreciate it. Lucy, I'll join those who've said this has been a fascinating thread and I thank you for it. As you said, we all do stupid things and most of the time we survive them. I'm just sorry a kid doing a stupid but typical thing had the results it did.

CJ

[Lute Skywatcher]

I wouldn't want to maneuver a truck on some of the narrow streets around here.You should see how drivers maneuver their 18-wheelers around the loading dock at a DHL distribution center near where I used to work. In order to pull out, they have to do a 180 in a space that's only about twice their length.

GoogleMap (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=1201+South+Fern+Street,+arlington,+va&t=h&ll=38.862672,-77.056633&spn=0.001752,0.003943&t=h) - DHL is right next to where that big row of parked cars is, which I think belong to a business that is no longer in that complex.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Oh yeah, I once walked by there on my way home from work when they had two 18-wheelers, one right after the other--both maneuvering around such a confined space at the same time. :eek:

[Maus Magill]

One question:

Is Atlanta full of novice truck drivers? It seemed when I liked there, the Ga 400 would get backed up due to a "Jack-knifed tractor trailer".

Or it could be that Atlanta drivers, well - they suck. Of course that's a whole nother pit thread.

[tings2du]

Do you ever watch that show on CMT called "Trick my Truck?" If so, what do you think about it? Would you like to have your truck "tricked?"

Only reason I ask is that I caught one episode and they seemed to fix up the exterior a lot on the vehicles and give it all sorts of shiny doo-dads, but the one guy's wife said that the truck broke down all the time. Seemed to me that making it pretty on the outside wasn't gonna do a bit of good if it couldn't run.

[LucyInDisguise]

Hi Kids ...

Wow. Page Five. Who wudda thunk? Sorry, I don't have too much time tonite - let me jump right on this.

(snip) ... he said "It's not any different driving around trucks than any other vehicles" . I had to pick my chin up off the floor before I could give him a piece of my mind. We're now trying to get the school district to allow us bring truck drivers in to talk to every drivers-ed class. ...

I do wish you luck in your endeavor. I (and others) have been trying here for a long time, haven't had much success yet. Let me know how it works out for you, okay?
So just how far back should I be from a truck? How far in front of one? I have problems judging distance sometimes ...(snip)

Don't we all, don't we all ... :D

To the rear (at speed) at least as far back as you need to in order to see at least the driver side mirror, and both mirrors if traffic will allow you that little extra space.

When passing, check to be sure you can see both headlights (on the vehicle you are passing) in your center rear view mirror before pulling back in.

I've always found that the 'Four Second Rule (http://www.trans.gov.ab.ca/Content/doctype45/production/dhpage112.htm)' works real well.

Yeah, yeah, I know - it says two seconds ... take it from a pro - four seconds works much better and will help to keep you safe, both front and rear. It also relieves an awful lot of stress. I use four seconds in both the big truck and my car. It can be a bit of a challenge in heavy traffic - and in some situations it's damn near impossible - but then, that's half the fun of driving, isn't it? :D
(snip) ... That must be how it is sometimes for truck drivers: You see disaster leap up in front of you, you do what you can, and the laws of physics take over from there.

Thank you. That is probably the clearest job description for this profession that I have ever read. :cool:
One question:

Is Atlanta full of novice truck drivers? It seemed when I liked there, the Ga 400 would get backed up due to a "Jack-knifed tractor trailer".

Or it could be that Atlanta drivers, well - they suck. Of course that's a whole nother pit thread.

Only been to Atlanta twice. (Got lost both times. :wally )

Everywhere is full of novice truck drivers. I doubt that Atlanta has more than it's fair share - Salt Lake City, on the other hand ... :D
Do you ever watch that show on CMT called "Trick my Truck?" If so, what do you think about it? Would you like to have your truck "tricked?"

Only reason I ask is that I caught one episode and they seemed to fix up the exterior a lot on the vehicles and give it all sorts of shiny doo-dads, but the one guy's wife said that the truck broke down all the time. Seemed to me that making it pretty on the outside wasn't gonna do a bit of good if it couldn't run.

Welcome!

Naw, not the 'Country' type. :D (And I'd rather spend my money on what makes it run and keeps it safe.)

Thanks once again to all for your contributions. It's your questions and anecdotes that keep this interesting - for you and for me.

I'll try to check back a little later this evening, if not - I'll be back here tomorrow afternoon.

Y'all drive safely now, y'hear?

Lucy

[Mince]

There is one other possibility. Review in your mind for a moment what your driving has been like in the last 15 miles or so. Were you recently playing "Don't Let The Semi Pass"? We know how to play the payback game (although I won't do it if an innocent party might also suffer). And we're better at it than you are. For those of you who are so inclined, the blade cuts both ways ...


Jesus, this is scary. No. I have NEVER played "Don't Let The Pass." They never taught me this game in Driver's Education; and I'll be damned if I can find it in the [I]Illinois Rules of the Road manual or IDOT website. Have you ever played the "I Should Really Just Swallow My Pride Because Any Consequent Retributive Action I Take Could Very Easily Ruin People's Lives, Mine Among Them" game?

[LucyInDisguise]

(snip) ... Have you ever played the "I Should Really Just Swallow My Pride Because Any Consequent Retributive Action I Take Could Very Easily Ruin People's Lives, Mine Among Them" game?

Let's see now, how's that ol' song go???



Something like ...




Minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute, by minute ...



(I think it's supposed to repeat rather more than that - and I'm pretty sure there is an 'I keep holdin' on ...' in there somewhere, too.) :D


Lucy

[Mince]

<sigh>


I get answered with a Sprint commercial.


nice.

nice and depressing.

[Spoons]

Lucy, this is a great thread. I'm remembering when I used to drive big rig, which was about 15 or so years ago. I left it to pursue other interests, but I have a number of good memories of the people I met and the experiences I had.

Anyway, Bookkeeper has been quite patient, and if it's OK with you, Lucy, I'll look after his (her?) question, since Ontario was where I drove:

A couple of questions. Here in Ontario (401, 416, 417), the truck inspection stations I see are usually closed. They appear to manned only part time and there are warning signs that illuminate to tell truckers to stop for inspection when they are open. Is this common?You're right, Ontario inspection stations aren't often open. Nor are they terribly regular in their hours of operation. This is (or at least was when I was driving) by design.

The idea is that an entirely random arrangement works well. If you know, for example, that the station on 401 eastbound at Trenton is always open Tuesday mornings, then at those times, you just might avoid taking the 401 through Trenton. You'll take Highway 2 instead. But if you have no idea when that station will be open--they can and do operate at all hours--it is hoped that the possibility of it being open will deter you from overloading your truck or operating it in an unsafe condition.

On certain roads, Ontario also uses the automatic vehicle inspection (AVI) system that Lucy mentioned earlier. You may have seen the signs on the 401 announcing "AVI ON 401," and odd-looking boxes mounted over the driving lanes. These were introduced after I stopped driving, but I understand they do a good job of keeping things moving without having to stop for an inspection.

I now live in Alberta, and while I do not drive transports any more, I'm impressed with the number of times I've seen the inspection stations open on the roads out here. More frequently than Ontario, certainly. But they are different provinces with what seems to be different approaches.

Hope you didn't mind me answering, Lucy, and I hope my answer meets with your approval.

[Nava]

Underride. In the morgue, the injury is usually described as "underride decapitation". Doesn't that bring a pretty picture to mind ...


I know someone who kind of underrode a truck once and survived. Both the driver and his wife. The truck was one of those with the open bed, carrying long metal poles with a red kerchief tied to the longest pole, and the back of the bed pulled down and squashed under the poles. They were told that running into the long pole _first_ may actually have saved their lifes, as it helped brake the car just enough that they stopped before the other poles turned them into... uhm... underride kebabs. The pole kindly went in between their seats, too. They didn't break anything except the wrecked car.

After that, the wife said she was by Jove going to get herself a license and never ever again let the husband drive while tired. The guy from the drivers' school claims she was his fastest student ever.



Loved the OP. I'm going to copy it and add it to my folder of "stuff I got from the Internet and which probably won't get me sued if I show it to some friends".

[LucyInDisguise]

(snip) ... Hope you didn't mind me answering, Lucy, and I hope my answer meets with your approval.

Thanks for the good catch there, Spoons! Loved your answer - better than I could have done, actually, I've not yet made it north of the border so I'm not too familiar with what's goin' on up there ... :D

Bookkeeper, I am sooooo sorry. I just completely missed that part of your question. :wally Can you forgive me?

BTW, use of the random check station is how the state of Nevada chose to operate their Commercial Vehicle Inspection Progam, as well. As Spoons explained, the inspection stations are opened at completely random times on equally random days - that includes all major legal holidays, as well. Last Christmas the inspection station on I-80 right across from my house here in Elko was open for 6 hours! (They put eleven trucks out of service that day, nie of them for hours of service violations.)

Also, Nevada chose not to participate in the Port of Entry system, thereby allowing the Highway Patrol to pull over any commercial vehicle without needing any probable cause to do so. No purchase necessary, you are automatically entered in the drawing as soon as you enter the state, and remain eligible the entire time your truck is here ...

Nava, glad you liked it ... you may copy away.

Lucy

[LucyInDisguise]

(snip)They put eleven trucks out of service that day, nine of them for hours of service violations ... (snip)

Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend.

[Bookkeeper]

Thanks, Spoons, I thought it might be something like that. No problem, Lucy, I wasn't expecting you to have the lowdown on Ontario practices anyway, I just threw it out hoping for a reply from someone.

[frogger world champion 1981]

Hey Lucy!,

First time poster, long time lurker!.

Just thought I'd ask, given the current world climate what is the likelihood of being able to hitch a ride with a trucker? Is there some sort of ettiquette or process involved?

I've travelled with a trucker before, but that was a few years ago!.

Is it a viable alternative transport option, or should I stick to Greyhound?


Love the thread and er.......keep on truckin'!

I think

[Nava]

...I ask him what they teach the students about driving around trucks and he said “It’s not any different driving around trucks than any other vehicles”...


....


My own driving inctructor would agree with that, sort of. So does the Spanish Código de la Circulación (Driver's Code I guess you could translate it but it actually applies to anybody using a road or street). All its instructions about safe distances etc are relative. Things like,
* you should stay a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you. A safe distance is such that you can brake fully under current conditions without touching them, and also such that they can see you.

If the car in front of you is loaded or designed in such a way that its central rearview mirror is blocked, you have to make sure you see his side mirrors. This applies to Smarts as well as to trucks.

The problem I think is that many people (specially when our hormone levels are affected by having a driving wheel between our hands) have problems putting themselves in someone else's shoes. The notion that "gee if he can't see I'm behind him, then he can't take me into account when he manoeuvers" is too big for our heads or something.


My car is only a bit bigger than a Smart; we joke that it's got ponies rather than horses. They're quite a few ponies, but still, if the A/C is on and the trunk is full, its upslope behavior becomes quite similar to that of an arthritic turtle. I've been "lighted" more than once because I was on the "70kph tops" right lane (left lane is downslope, right is upslope slow, middle is upslope for passing the slow ones) and not attempting to pass the truck in front of me. OK, Mr Macho with the Audi 4, it may sound stupid to you, but this thing here is an overloaded girlie car and I'm NOT going to try to pass a truck that the poor thing just doesn't have the power to pass before the two lanes become one again! You want to pass us, just do it and stop blinding me.

Those guys make me want to hit them with a Nike billboard, I tell you.

[Tinkertoy]

Hey Lucy! Just thought I'd ask, given the current world climate what is the likelihood of being able to hitch a ride with a trucker? Is there some sort of ettiquette or process involved?

I've travelled with a trucker before, but that was a few years ago!.

Is it a viable alternative transport option, or should I stick to Greyhound?

Many trucking companies strictly prohibit their drivers from picking up hitchhikers. At the company where my hubby works there are certain things that results in instant dismissal, picking up a hitchhiker is one of them. Others include messing with the speed governors on the truck, refusing to take a drug test when told to, breaking the seal on a secured load and failure to report an accident.

[LucyInDisguise]

Sorry, been a little worn out and distracted the last couple of days. Truck is now down and in the shop for service and repairs 'till Monday afternoon.

Many trucking companies strictly prohibit their drivers from picking up hitchhikers. At the company where my hubby works there are certain things that results in instant dismissal, picking up a hitchhiker is one of them. Others include messing with the speed governors on the truck, refusing to take a drug test when told to, breaking the seal on a secured load and failure to report an accident.

Actually, I think it's pretty much all trucking companies prohibit picking up hitchhikers. About the only chance of grabbing a ride is with an owner/operator, and most of them have discontinued the practice as well ... and, er, frogger world champion 1981, the way some of those guys drive, I'd stick to Greyhound. Come to think of it, the way some of those guys drive, I'd stick to Amtrack. In fact, now that I've had a moment to think it through, seems to me that maybe a quick walking tour around the block might be a better idea ... :D

(snip) ... Those guys make me want to hit them with a Nike billboard, I tell you.

Awww, come on now, I can think of more effective bats than that! ;)

Lucy

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Sorry, been a little worn out and distracted the last couple of days. Truck is now down and in the shop for service and repairs 'till Monday afternoon. Which raises some questions: What, roughly, does it cost to keep a truck on the road, in maintenance and gas, for long-haul trucking?

What are common problems? Any particular to particular brands?

Speaking of brands, I know Mack and Peterbilt ("Peterbilt a truck for a man to drive...." :D ). What are the other biggies? Which are the good ones? Which are the ones truckers hate to get stuck with by their companies?

Do independent operators tend to favorite certain makes?

Oh, yeh, another one: trucks with sleeper cabs -- do drivers pimp out their cribs?

[LucyInDisguise]

Now here are some questions I can really get my teeth into! What's left of 'em, anyway ...

Which raises some questions: What, roughly, does it cost to keep a truck on the road, in maintenance and gas, for long-haul trucking?

First, let me say that most tractors on the road today are leased, and while this dramatically reduces actual maintenance costs to the lessee, there are still a lot of maintenance costs that are either passed through to or have to be paid outright by the lessee. Also, I can't speak too much for the Over The Road [OTR] trucks, but can give you some ideas based on some ballpark figures of the money laid out annually by the company I work for (does not include lease costs):

My truck runs primarily in Nevada, with occasional trips into Utah and Idaho, but is registered in 10 of the 11 western states (NOT California). Registration, permits, taxes & insurance for tractor and 2 trailers: $21,560

In addition, my truck requires annual over-size/over-weight permits in Nevada ($2,700) Idaho ($1,200) & Utah ($600). (As you can see, permit costs vary widely from state to state. Very few OTR trucks require these these.)

Major breakdowns, such as an engine or transmission, can run into the thousands of dollars. That is the primary reason that the vast majority of tractors are leased. Also covered by the lessor is most of the preventive maintenance (oil, lube & filters).

A lot of the normal 'wear and tear' stuff such tires, brakes, lights, glass, etc. are the responsibility of the lessee as well as all maintenance and/or repair costs on company owned equipment and trailers. A simple field service call to replace a flat tire can run up to $650 or more, depending on how far away from the tire shop you are. Maintenance and repair costs on my truck last year $22,500 (+/- 2%) (This is for the Freightshaker and trailers only. My new KW had no repair costs last year. None so far this year, either :D )

[Nit-pick] Trucks burn diesel fuel, not gas. To most people, not much difference - but they are very different fuels (http://succ.shirazu.ac.ir/~motor/engin/desl.htm).[/Nit-pick]

A typical heavy truck has a fuel capacity of between 100 and 300 gallons. Newer trucks get 5 - 7 mpg, depending on engine size and horsepower, load, terrain, duty and too many other factors to list here. (e.g., my truck averages 4.77 mpg, but I have a lot of 'High Idle Time' [HIT] @ 950 rpm while loading and unloading. If I subtract out the HIT my truck averages a much more acceptable 6.99 mpg.) Diesel fuel is currently $2.46/gal here in Elko. Just a little pocket change to fill these babies up. My truck has 190 gallon capacity, 175 of which is usable before refueling. That normally give me about 750 miles of range or about 3 days working time.

Note: Price at the pump does not always include all of the fuel taxes, either. Fuel taxes (except sales tax) are paid separately (based on the number of miles you actually run in each state) through the IFTA program which can be just a weeeeee bit challenging to explain. This link (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohpi/hss/Flow1.htm) will give you 'just one little lick of the ice-cream cone'. Essentially you pay a fuel tax to your base state (where the truck is registered) based on mileage logs showing how many miles you ran in which states (and in some cases which routes) that is then divided up and paid to the states you ran in. Or something like that. I don't know - here's a little clearer synopsis (http://www.state.sd.us/drr2/motorvehicle/commercial/ifta1.htm) (one of the few that is not a PDF file.) Fuel tax on my truck last year $14,962.56

[Disclaimer: Actual costs borne by companies vary widely from truck to truck and company to company. Amounts cited above are, in most cases, ballpark figures given to me by my supervisor. Just happens that they are preparing an IFTA filing and he had that number right in front of him.]

What are common problems? Any particular to particular brands?
All the same types of problems that your vehicle is subject to: oil & water pumps, alternators, clutches, transmissions, tires, etc. Just more frequently (we do tend to rack up a few more miles than you do) and, in most cases, wwwwaaaaayyyy more expensive.

Newer Caterpillar engines lose a lot of turbochargers if you don't follow proper cool down procedures before shutting down the engine. Come to think of it, so do Detroits and Cummins. Don't know about the newer Mack's, but with the older ones it was real easy to blow out a differential if you didn't start out or shift properly.

Speaking of brands, I know Mack and Peterbilt ("Peterbilt a truck for a man to drive...." ). What are the other biggies?
Volvo, Freightliner, Kenworth. There are others out there, but those are, I believe, the top five. In no particular order, I might add.

Which are the good ones?
It should be noted here that I'm a Kenworth snob. I've driven all of the others noted above but for the way I work and drive, KW's get my vote every second of every day. (Most recently, I drove a Freightliner - I told my boss that if they didn't get me a Kenworth they'd have to find somebody else to do this job. I meant it. He knew I meant it. That's why I'm now driving a 2006 Kenworth. :cool: :p )

Which are the ones truckers hate to get stuck with by their companies?

I really do not want to get into a debate about trucks. Likes and dislikes are a very personal thing among Drivers. Just as with automobile owners, everybody has their favorite (e.g., the whole Ford vs. Chevy thing) and, like me, can get a little fanatical 'bout it. I've met Drivers who'd swear with their dying breath that their Freightliner or Peterbuilt is the best truck built since Fred Flinstone got his radials. However, despite using extraordinary care, every 'Freightshaker' or 'Peter the Great' I've driven spent more time in the shop than on the road. (A not very minor exageration ...) In fact, IMNSHO, a 'Peter' would never last more than 6 months doing the job I do now because they are designed as an OTR truck and fully 50% of my miles are off highway (it'd be kinda like using a Lexus to haul firewood in). My opinion: Peterbuilt = POS - they're mighty pretty trucks, but very easy to break. But that's just my opinion based on my exposure to the brand.

Having said that, I offer the following based on my conversations with other Drivers:

#1 - Freightliner. Hands down. Personally, I hated - no, loathed - no, ... shit - there isn't a word in my vocabulary describes how much I 'did not like' all four of the Freightshakers I've been stuck with over the years. I've only met (in person) one other Driver who said he liked Freightliners. And he refused to look me in the eyes when he said it, too. They are the cheapest trucks on the road - commonly referred to as the 'Chevy Shove-it' of the industry (not to cast aspersions on Cheverolet or their 'model of automotive engineering', the Chevette). And you can break them by simply closing the door when you get in. (not kidding - happened to me - twice!) Note that cheapest does not equal least expensive, as maintenance costs can be astronomical. The five year old Freightshaker I was driving had $12,976 in repairs in the 9 months prior to getting my KW last year.

#2 - Peterbuilt. Even with it's reputation of being the Luxury Truck in the industry, the Drivers I've spoken with tell me that they break down a lot. (Drive train and suspension problems, mostly.) This is borne out by my experience with the brand, also.

#3 - Mack. Really good off road truck manufacturer. Their off road construction grade trucks that they built their reputation with are the best in the industry, but do not hold up well in OTR use. IMO they're still trying to get a good handle on their OTR lineup of trucks.

#4 - Any individual truck, regardless of brand, that brakes down a lot. It is incredibly difficult to make any money if the wheels won't go 'round.

Do independent operators tend to favorite certain makes?

Strictly by observation and a very few conversations:

#1 - Kenworth & #2 - Volvo - roughly a tie, with KW's ahead by maybe a bumper.
#3 - Peterbuilt
#4 - Freightliner :dubious: (Yeah, I know. Some people buy Toyota's, too - go figure.) :D

Oh, yeh, another one: trucks with sleeper cabs -- do drivers pimp out their cribs?

Not exactly sure what the question is here ... :confused:

not all that sure I want to know ... :eek:

Drive Careful out there.

Lucy