Brandi Chastain

Ok, I know this isn't a sports forum, but I have a question. I missed the interview where Brandi Chastain (who scored the World Cup winning goal) swore on national TV. So, my question is: What exactly did she say? And why are people upset about it?

Thanks in advance.

Adam

Not being an exact quote she said about teammate Michelle Akers, "She's the best goddamned player in the world."

I think it was a bit more scandalous since it came from a woman who aren't expected to upset our delicate sensibilites about language as much as men.

Yet the Republic survives!

Brandi can say anything she likes, as long as she whispers it in my ear while XXXXXXX XX XXXX XXX XXXXXX XXX XXXX XX XXXX XXXX X XXXXX XXX XX XXXXXX, XXX XXXXXXX XX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX. - MC
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I think people are upset because they are stuck on the fact that she is female. Men often use inappropriate language in locker rooms, I don't know why everyone would be upset that she did. She is the closest thing to a "Dennis Rodman" on the team, and I think some people don't like some of her antics. She posed for a magazine shot with nothing but a soccer ball on(held in a strategic place) and of course, ripped off her shirt after scoring. I think it is pretty cool that she is confident enough to do what she wants. Actually, most girls I know that are confident and independant all played some sort of team sport in high school or college.

If that's indeed what she said, "G-ded" then I imagine many people are upset at her using their lord's name in vain. That's not so hard to understand, is it?

My biggest difficulty with her is the fact that she yanked her shirt off in front of the whole world, then in a CNN interview stated that she put her shirt back on to receive the medal because she wanted to "look presentable."
She can pose any way she wants for magazines, but as long as she is on television being a "role model" for young women, maybe a little restraint is in order.
A world cup soccer game shouldn't have to be PG rated!

FixedBack

She was wearing a sport's bra, for Go---I mean, for Pete's sake! You see more skin than that just walking down the street. Get over it.

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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

you losers. She was wearing a sports bra. those things are made out of canvas and cast iron. I think she should be able to say any goddamned thing she wants Cause I didn't see DISNEY paying her so say anything. Why do the men in every damn sport get that but the women don't

Not fair! I never saw the woman ripping her shirt off! Any links for me, please?

And a question, why can we males walk on the streets topless, and girls can't? And please don't tell me that it is because we males get turned on by bare-cheasted females and it'd be much of a problem keeping peace and order in the streets. What, don't women get turned on by males' bare chests or what?

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Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities.
-Voltaire

E1 - It's against the law, for one thing, specifically for the reason you cited and generally because most people think a woman's breasts should not be on display in public.

What do you mean it's against the law? Here in the great state of New York, a court decision specifically granted women the legal right to bare their breasts in public as long as it's not done for commercial purposes.

It's legal in Ohio too, last I checked. Last summer, a stripper caused a decent-sized traffic jam in Columbus by standing topless on the corner of the busiest intersection in downtown, handing out free admission coupons to her show that night.

As for whether or not I'm attracted to a man's naked chest--well, it depends on the man. He'd have to have some nice pecs for it to turn my head. Men, on the other hand, will look at just about any boobies they can.

My suspicion is that it is less common now in New York than it was before it was confirmed to be legal. It used to be a protest -- now it's just a crowdpleaser.

In Ohio? And I missed it? If it's legal, I can think of a way to make this summer less boring...

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Neil

". . .they could as easily have been carrying euphoniums and wearing war paint for all the notice their quarry would have taken of them."
-Douglas Adams, "Life, the Universe, and Everything"

I rememer 4 years ago when my Steelers beat the Colts to go to the Super Bowl, Greg Lloyd(my favorite player) said (paraphrasing here)
It's about time we got this trophy(the AFC Championchip trophy) back in this town where it belongs. Next year, hopefully we can get it back again. And the fucking super bowl too. This caused somewhat of an uproar too, since it was on national tv live. I didn't see it , I was at the game, but heard about that night and saw it on tape. It's part of being in a locker room. I'm sure just because you are female doesn't mean you can't lose control of you emotions after winning such a big game(especially after scoring the goal.) Get over it. Maybe some males are threatened by independant strong-willed women who don't feel they have to act like Suzy Homemaker.

Thanks for the answers on what Brandi said. I'm not really surprised that she swore on TV. I've seen countless men do it, so why would I expect any better from a woman athlete?

Now, I saw her take her shirt off on the highlights during Sportcenter. And again on the next show, and again, and again...I've seen it 40 times already. Can they show something else maybe?!?

What bothers me is that 2, 5, 10 years from now, when people ask, "What is the most lasting image of the Women's World Cup '99?"
EVERYBODY, including me, is going to say, "That woman revealing her black sports bra after scoring the winning goal."

Adam

What bothers me is that I haven't seen it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, in Toronto (as far as I know) it's also legal for a woman to show her breasts.

And Drain Bead: why do you think most men will turn their heads at any boobs? Because they've been hidden from us always! They are considered "taboo" thanks to our stupid prudishness.

Oh, well, this is not a debate, I guess.

Peace.

I think what Brandi did was a stroke of genius. Her image is burnt into the collective memories of every sports watcher across the world. She will now receive more endorsements than Mia Hamm, just watch.

Secondly, who cares. She has a great body and is a terrific athlete. If I had her body....etc

Thirdly and last, it is legal in certain parts of Maine for a woman to mow her lawn without a shirt/bra on. Maine is very progressive :)

I don't know where it's legal or not to rip your shirt off and show a training bra that is less revealing than 99% of bikinis, but tearing off your shirt (and, if possible, throwing it into the cheering crowd...this is only possible if your shot has won the game, so you won't need it to play anymore) is a common tradition in men's soccer. if you have scored a hot-shit goal. Guys do it all the time. At least in Europe if you do it you get a yellow card....this is why some players like FC Barcelona's Rivaldo often wear two shirts, so they can rip one off if they get a chance. If they're not prepared, they pull their shirts as high off their body as they can while legally keeping them on. Give Ms. Chastain a yellow card. Doesn't matter much now, does it?

Uh, Nick, get a life about people using the Lord's name in vain. God damn it, even my grandma did it.

I have to say that I think it is totally inappropriate to use such controversial curse words in a public manner. While I use "G.D." and the "F" word, plus many others, in my personal life, I don't use them in front of strangers or children. I cringe when I am in the grocery store and hear people casually tossing the "F" word around - I don't want to hear my 5 year old niece trying it out in first grade!

While I understand that the words were spoken in the heat of the moment, I think that it demonstrates a lack of respect for the viewing audience, many members of which will surely be offended. NOT a way to win friends, sponsors, and more followers of the sport - but a good way to get people with children to change the channel when the broadcast comes on.




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sosumi

I really don't get all this controversy over Chastain. She had an awesome tournament. She even came back after scoring a goal on her own team, and led them to win that match. This woman has an awesome body and should be proud to show it off whenever she wants. In EVERY single basketball game men take off their jerseys after the game and no one cares. Chastain was wearing more than a bikini top w/ the sports bra, people are just too tight.
Sorry for my mindless rambling I can't get the picture of her out of my head. What a physique on that woman.
I gotta go wipe the drool off my chin...

Ha! That's funny; I find it amusing. So much for the advances in equality. Maybe it's just that women's sports are finally starting to blossom on to the national consciousness and there are still some pre-conceived ideas on what's acceptable for a woman.

As for sports bras, I show more with my bikini top then you'd ever see with me walking around in my sports bra. Smeg, cast iron and canvas...you're killin' me here.

Glad to hear of the support from the guys. Thank you, gentleman.

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...it has never been my way to bother much about things which you can't cure.
- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court-Mark Twain

Does anybody else feel it's a little unfair that Chastain is getting all the attention for doing what 8 other women also did in the PK round? It was the goalie, Scurry(sp?), who stopped the only goal during the PKs.

yeah, and Michael Jordan shouldn't have been exalted over everyone else whenever he hit a game-winning shot. After all, his teammates scored some of the points leading up to that shot. Scurry should get a lot of credit, but face it -- we appreciate the great defensive play but we go apeshit over the great offensive play.

A bigger issue for me is that they played the equivalent of 9 scoreless innings and decided the world-freaking championship with a home-run derby!!! They should play sudden death (which is what it's called, don't give me this "golden goal" shit) with no clock. Sooner or later someone will score. If everybody is so concerned about getting the game over with, have the teams alternate corner-kicks -- at least then when a team finally scores it's in a real game situation.

Incidentally she should be able to rip all of her clothes off and curse like Cartman if she wants. Queen Victoria has been dead for 100 years, people!!!!

E1skeptic aksed: And a question, why can we males walk on the streets topless, and girls can't? And please don't tell me that it is because we males get turned on by bare-cheasted females and it'd be much of a problem keeping peace and order in the streets. What, don't women get turned on by males' bare chests or what?

I heard of a case of just desserts in Florida years ago. Someone complained at a male body-building competition that the contestants' nipples were visible. Turns out that the law at the time prohibited the display of nipples, but didn't say male or female. So to continue the show, the male bodybuilders had to put on pasties.

Here we go again:

From Adam:What bothers me is that 2, 5, 10 years from now, when people ask, "What is the most lasting image of the Women's World Cup '99?"
EVERYBODY, including me, is going to say, "That woman revealing her black sports bra after scoring the winning goal."

EVERYBODY? Ya, right. As far as I can tell, you're the only one who cares.
Have you ever watched pro beach volleyball? The women wear tops which I would say are nearly identical to sports bras. I don't hear anyone saying, "Gee, that would be a great sport but I just can't get over the fact that these ladies are so immodest". Please.
Are you sure you're not also upset by women's swimming competitions? I mean, there they are, right out in public, with only their bathing suits on.

Where's that "signs of decline" thread? I have an addition....



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"I think it would be a great idea" Mohandas Ghandi's answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization

Taken from today's Football365 Media Watch section...

Quote of the Day
"The lovely Brandi Chastain's comment on why the world is finally turning on to women's football: "There are people who come purely for the soccer and those come purely for the event. And there are those who come because they like to look at us."

Someone asked for a picture, check out football365.co.uk. It's not racey in anyway but captures the emotion of the moment quite well.

And another thing. As I just signed onto AOL, there was a poll, on the main "Welcome" page entitled, "Sports Bra Brouhaha." I took the poll, and it turns out there were 60,000+ votes. So, I'm not the only one who cares about this thing.

Adam

Actually, the sad thing is that a) a sports bra is nothing like an everyday bra; b) if this had been the U.S. men's team and Bradley Chastain had torn off his shirt, nobody would have batted an eye; and c) those may be the only boobies Adam ever gets to see.

What a dumb, dumb planet we live on.

Oh, Jesus Christ, here we go. Lawrence, I said "I imagine many people are upset" not
"I'm upset."

If you don't see why some people could be upset at a public display of one of the ten commandments being broken by a greatly admired athlete, then I cannot help you.

What a dumb, dumb planet we live on.

Amen.

Adam

Actually, the men in Europe have celebrated by ripping their shirt off after a goal quite a bit. It was made illegal, so some players would wear two shirts, so they could rip one off. I think she was only doing a naturaly soccer celebration. Now, let's talk about the double standard. Men do it all the time to no controversy, Brandi does it once and the world is ending.
WOW, she does have a killer body though.

Bobinelli - I couldn't find the picture at the site you posted. Try this one: CNNSI (http://www.cnnsi.com/soccer/world/1999/womens_worldcup/news/1999/07/10/wwc_gallery/7.html)

Whoops, try that again: Brandi Chastain shirtless (http://www.cnnsi.com/soccer/world/1999/womens_worldcup/news/1999/07/10/wwc_gallery/7.html)

Or just check out the cover of the new issue of Newsweek.

My brother posted a cynical comment to the Talk of the Nation board yesterday, suggesting that it was an elaborate ploy by Nike to market a new sportsbra. Then he saw this today on the cover of the McPaper:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/acovtue.htm

There are no spontaneous actions in sports anymore...

On the subject of cursing in sports, did anyone catch baseball's Home Run Derby the other night? They had a microphone on the batters (to hear their manly grunts, I suppose).

Anyway, Nomar Garciaparra, a short-stop from Boston, was up at bat. He pulled a ball foul, then loudly proclaimed "F*ck!" for all the nation's youth to hear on live television. The announcers ignored it, but everyone at my house was laughing fit to split.

:)

Lucky, Lucky, Lucky. You missed my point. Why don't you read my post again and think about it before you respond. I said, "lasting image." I think most people agree that I'm reffering to photos, visible images. And I can garantee that the first image that comes to most people's minds will be of Chastain in her bra.

And what was all that about swimming, and volleyball? Now, if all soccer players played on their bras, then none of this would be a big deal. Sheesh.

Adam

from Roksez

quote...
"the men in Europe have celebrated by ripping their shirt off after a goal quite a bit. It was made illegal"

It's not illegal. Players just get penalised/booked for ellaborate celebrations if it interferes with the restart of play.

Regarding the second shirt - your only allowed onto the pitch wearing one strip. Some players wear a vest/t-shirt underneath their strip with a special message which they'll show off at any opportunity.

My favourite came from Liverpool's Robbie Fowler after scoring his 100th goal for the mighty reds "Gods job is an easy one"!

My first thought when I saw a news photo of Chastain with her jersey off wasn't that I could see her bra but, since you could see the size of her waist compared to her shorts, that her shorts were the freakin' baggiest shorts a human being has ever worn! You could practically make a tent out of them.

So what's with the soccer shorts big enough to hold two people?

On the subject of cursing in sports, did anyone catch baseball's Home Run Derby the other night? They had a microphone on the batters (to hear their manly grunts, I suppose).
Anyway, Nomar Garciaparra, a short-stop from Boston, was up at bat. He pulled a ball foul, then loudly proclaimed "F*ck!" for all the nation's youth to hear on live television. The announcers ignored it, but everyone at my house was laughing fit to split.

Yeah, I caught it. I was sitting in section 16, row 9, seat 17 and didn't hear a thing!

Sorry, just had to gloat! :)

Booters with Hooters!
I loved seeing the chiseled body of Brandi after her big score! More power to her!
After 2 hours running around in the sun, I would have ripped off my jersey too!
Of course, I am a sexist pig, and would love to see the locker room scene after the game!
Females journalists are allowed into men's locker rooms. Why are'nt male journalists allowed into female locker rooms?

Of course, I am a sexist pig, and would love to see the locker room scene after the game! Females journalists are allowed into men's locker rooms. Why are'nt male journalists allowed into female locker rooms?

Because of guys like you, pokerplayer...

Well the First Pervert went into the locker room after the game. I guess that after Brandi's display, he wanted to see some more.

Jeffery

[[My biggest difficulty with her is the fact that she yanked her shirt off in front of the whole world, then in a CNN interview stated that she put her shirt back on to receive the medal because she wanted to "look presentable."
She can pose any way she wants for magazines, but as long as she is on television being a "role model" for young women, maybe a little restraint is in order.
A world cup soccer game shouldn't have to be PG rated! ]]


Heck, that was the best part of the whole tournament. ;)

[[A bigger issue for me is that they played the equivalent of 9 scoreless innings and decided the world-freaking championship with a home-run derby!!! They should play sudden death (which is what it's called, don't give me this "golden goal" shit) with no clock. Sooner or later someone will score. If everybody is so concerned about getting the game over with, have the teams alternate corner-kicks -- at least then when a team finally scores it's in a real game situation.]] jrepka


You got that right -- what a farce to decide a championship that way. This, plus the low scoring (both games the last day were 0-0), is why soccer will nver be a big-time spectator sport in the US, even though the big event here and there will garnewr attention.

The bigger issue for me is that they played the equivalent of 9 scoreless innings and decided the world-freaking championship with a home-run derby!!! They should play sudden death (which is what it's called, don't give me this "golden goal" shit) with no clock. Sooner or later someone will score.

If they kept playing that game, sooner or later someone would die. And the entire Rose Bowl would be empty. The heat in that place was beyond belief.

If everybody is so concerned about getting the game over with, have the teams alternate corner-kicks -- at least then when a team finally scores it's in a real game situation.

That's assuming someone will score from corner kicks. It isn't that common an occurrence.

I'm no fan of penalty kicks, I've just yet to see anyone come up with a really good alternative.

This, plus the low scoring (both games the last day were 0-0), is why soccer will never be a big-time spectator sport in the US

If hockey does ok here, why can't soccer?

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.



[Note: This message has been edited by Nickrz]

arrrrrgh ... I hate UBB. :(

sorry about that.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

{{[[The bigger issue for me is that they played the equivalent of 9 scoreless innings and decided the world-freaking championship with a home-run derby!!! They should play sudden death (which is what it's called, don't give me this "golden goal" shit) with no clock. Sooner or later someone will score.


If they kept playing that game, sooner or later someone would die[/die]. And the entire Rose Bowl would be empty. The heat in that place was beyond belief.}} ruahd


Oh, BS -- play the friggin' game, and substitute if you have to. Someone will score eventually.

{{[[This, plus the low scoring (both games the last day were 0-0), is why soccer will never be a big-time spectator sport in the US.]]

If hockey does ok here, why can't soccer?}}


Because there's a lot more scoring in hockey, for one thing. And the NHL does not decide the title by something as idiotic as penalty kicks (which is like deciding the NBA Finals with a free throw contest).

Because there's a lot more scoring in hockey, for one thing. And the NHL does not decide the title by something as idiotic as penalty kicks (which is like deciding the NBA Finals with a free throw contest).

I dunno, BI. The free throw contest idea might be kind of exciting, given how poorly most pros shoot from the line. :) And, FYI: there's apparently a group of NHL owners (mostly from the southwest) who advocate a similar method for breaking ties in hockey...

The thing with penalty kicks is that a miss is almost a freak occurrence. The only reason Chastain won the game with her kick is because the official failed to catch Scurry cheating on the 3rd PK by the Chinese (that's a whole 'nuther thread: the ethics of cheating in sports).

That's assuming someone will score from corner kicks. It isn't that common an occurrence.

Yeah but it involves the whole team in the play. With PKs scoring is too easy, and it's too different from a game situation.

Big Iron:

Oh, BS -- play the friggin' game, and substitute if you have to. Someone will score eventually.

Hmm...why do I get the feeling you've never played the game.

This may be something we'll have to agree to disagree on, but, BI, I was at the game. Nobody was going to score. Players WERE about to collapse. And people WERE about to leave. It was TOO HOT TO KEEP PLAYING. I don't know how much simpler terms I can put it in. And I don't think that a victory earned simply because you were the last team left standing after two hours of 95+ degree heat, is any more of an indication that you were the "better team" than penalty kicks are.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

{{[[Oh, BS -- play the friggin' game, and substitute if you have to. Someone will score eventually.]]

Hmm...why do I get the feeling you've never played the game.}} ruadh


Beats me -- I didn't play varsity or anything, but I've played long games on hot days (ultimate frisbee, too). Yes, you get hot and tired -- that's what substitutions are for. Deciding a game on penalty kicks is absolutely idiotic. Those players bust their humps out there for over 90 minutes and you decide the thing by basically flipping a coin. Monumentally moronic.


[[This may be something we'll have to agree to disagree on, but, BI, I was at the game. Nobody was going to score. Players WERE about to collapse. And people WERE about to leave. It was TOO HOT TO KEEP PLAYING. I don't know how much simpler terms I can put it in. And I don't think that a victory earned simply because you were the last team left standing after two hours of 95+ degree heat, is any more of an indication that you were the "better team" than penalty kicks are. ]]


Maybe you're right (of course, one fluke goal in the first half might not be much of an indication of who's the better team). If so, that's a big reason why soccer is kinda dumb.

Yes, you get hot and tired -- that's what substitutions are for.

No, it's not. Not entirely anyway. You also keep subs on the bench in case you need to make a tactical change. Institute a play-till-you-drop rule and coaches may have to fill their benches with their teams' youngest legs instead ... or they may have to stop making tactical substitutions during regulation time, in anticipation of needing subs in overtime. (Or are you also suggesting dropping the 3-per-game rule?) I really think this rule would change the way the ninety minutes were played, and not for the better.

Maybe you're right (of course, one fluke goal in the first half might not be much of an indication of who's the better team). If so, that's a big reason why soccer is kinda dumb.

As opposed to other sports in which the better team always wins?

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

As opposed to other sports in which the better team always wins?

Which is why other sports play multi-game series to decide championships. On a given day in baseball or hockey, since both are relatively low-scoring sports, the worst team could conceivably beat the best team. Over a multiple game set the best team wins out.

And face it, every other major sport in the world, in a situation where a tie is unacceptable, continues play under regualr rules until one team wins. Soccer is the only sport that plays a completely different game, under different rules, to break a tie (yes I know penalty kicks can occur during games, but certainly not with the frequency of, say, an inside-the-park homerun).

[[(Or are you also suggesting dropping the 3-per-game rule?) I really think this rule would change the way the ninety minutes were played, and not for the better.]]


Actually, I see no problem whatsoever with changing that rule.

Which is why other sports play multi-game series to decide championships. On a given
day in baseball or hockey, since both are relatively low-scoring sports, the worst team
could conceivably beat the best team. Over a multiple game set the best team wins
out.

Well, American football doesn't play multi-game sets. But anyway ... this isn't a "championship" we're talking about - it's an international tournament and there really is no equivalent in other sports. And a multi-game set really isn't feasible because teams can't play every day. The World Cup would take half a year if they did it that way.

Now, if you're talking about actual CHAMPIONSHIPS, i.e., league titles, that's another story. In America the league titles are decided with multi-game sets. In every other country they are based on a pure points system (3 for win, 1 for draw, 0 for loss) and at the end of the season the team with the most points wins. Pretty simple.

I might add the multi-game set doesn't always allow the best team to win. The pennant races in 1997 spring to mind (were the Indians and Marlins really better than the Orioles and the Braves? That's debatable).

And face it, every other major sport in the world, in a situation where a tie is
unacceptable, continues play under regualr rules until one team wins.

Maybe, but most other sports in the world either aren't as physically intense, or rarely end in draws. It's an apples and oranges thing, really.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

I wrote:

In America the league titles are decided with multi-game sets.

let me correct myself here. The qualifying rounds up to the final are decided with multi-game sets. The final is a one-off. I agree the system of deciding the league title in America sucks ... for a multitude of reasons.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

[[I might add the multi-game set doesn't always allow the best team to win. The pennant races in 1997 spring to mind (were the Indians and Marlins really better than the Orioles and the Braves? That's debatable).]]


Well, baseball is different (which is why it needs to seriously limit the playoff teams if the World Series is to retain any legitimacy). In football and basketball, for instance, the better team usually does win the title game/series.

In American Football there are long breaks between plays, defense and offense are not even the same players and different plays use different players. Baseball has almost one entire team sitting at any one time and even the team in the field isn't running around for better position. Basketball uses a tiny court and substitutions are unlimited. Hockey is on a small, ice (which allows gliding into position instead of more strenuous running) and also allows unlimited substitutions.
Football uses 11-14 players who are almost constantly running with intermittant sprinting (except for the goalie). Unlike the other sports I mentioned it uses the legs(mainly) to control the ball so that running around directly affects the energy you have left to control the ball. A break for water only occurs at halftime or when you can get to your team's sideline and get someone to pass you water and hope that you are not needed to cover someone.
I think that this comparison, coupled with the low goal scoring of football, shows that, unlike other sports, football does not fit well with the idea of extending play until someone scores. Humans can only stretch their endurance so far.
Plus would you like it if you tried to get an autograph and the player was so tired from 3 hours of playing that she couldn't hold your pen? :)

Well put, HeadlessCow. There's one additional point I'd like to make about forcing players to play for hours - the added risk of injury to the players. Outside of the US, very few domestic games have to end with a winner, so mostly when we debate this subject we are talking about international games. Well, it isn't the international games that pay a player's salary - they're contracted to their team - and their team isn't going to want to send them to internationals if they risk getting them back unable to play for weeks or months. I can't see the players being thrilled about it either.

This isn't a minor concern.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

ruadh posted:

Maybe, but most other sports in the world either aren't as physically intense, or rarely end in draws. It's an apples and oranges thing, really.

As is this statement. A few sports come to mind right off the bat for physical intensity: American Football, Australian Rules Football, Gaelic Football, Boxing, Wrestling (not the WWF stuff), certain Track and Field Events, Rowing. The list just goes on.

But it's an apples and oranges and bananas and citrons and...and...and...thing.

Maybe, but most other sports in the world either aren't as physically intense, or rarely end in draws. It's an apples and oranges thing, really.

So we can't make them continue play, because it's too hard! I suggest that the reason is that it's pointless -- the rules make it too difficult to score, the players in championship games are too conservative, or defense has too much of an advantage. Two World Cups and a consolation game in the past four years have ended in scoreless ties.

People can blather on and on about how the uninitiated simply to not understand the subtle beauty of the game, but I contend that the real reason they use penalty kicks to break ties is that people won't continue to watch six hours of a scoreless tie.

The
pennant races in 1997 spring to mind (were the Indians and Marlins really better than
the Orioles and the Braves? That's debatable).

(CARTMAN)Hey!(/CARTMAN)

I think there's little doubt the Indians were better than the Orioles, and I don't say so just because I live in Cleveland and used to work for their flagship radio station. :)

OTOH, the Marlins were a fluke, and a travesty. That Series should be stricken from the books.

I suspect having all those women behaving jocks has upset alot of delicate sensibilities. Sometimes it takes time for people keep up with or even be aware of shifts in social or cultural paradigns.

<<My biggest difficulty with her is the fact that she yanked her shirt off in front of the whole world, then in a CNN interview stated that she put her shirt back on to receive the medal because she wanted to "look presentable."
She can pose any way she wants for magazines, but as long as she is on television being a "role model" for young women, maybe a little restraint is in order.
A world cup soccer game shouldn't have to be PG rated!>>
I agree: she was posing with her shirt off (perhaps for future ad revenue, playboy revenue)and so violated the demeanor of the entire women's cup. These women had successfully focused attention on the *sport* until the very last moment: a woman ripping off her shirt thus focusing attention on her sexuality, not her achievement. It was a sad moment for the sport. She blew it. Then to swear in public afterward: This is not how I want my daughter to act.


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"Valenton del mundo!"

These women had successfully focused attention on the *sport* until the very last moment: a woman ripping off her shirt thus focusing attention on her sexuality, not her achievement.

Yes, that's right--if a man does it, it's "celebrating the victory"; if a woman does it, it's "calling attention to her sexuality".

I can't believe I live on the same planet as some of you people.

Phil! You and I agree 100%! Just because a woman does something that some men might find sexually stimulating does not mean that she "called attention to her sexuality." The fact, as I understand, is that the men in soccer rip off their shirts in celebration, and the women have simply followed suit. Like you say, as of yet I see no posts complaining that the men have been doing this for years in an effort to call attention to their sexuality.

Is this a prudish American phenomenon, that we think seeing a woman's sports bra is going too far? Representatives of any more open-minded cultures care to voice their viewpoints?

I found it very tasteless to rip off your shirt (especially since it was just a PK goal) and then curse in the interview afterwards, ESPECIALLY when we're the host country and ESPECIALLY when its a World Cup game. Gender does not play a role in my feelings about this- we simply have a higher standard for international events and, IMHO, rightly so.

If you don't see why some people could be upset at a public display of one of the ten commandments being broken by a greatly admired athlete, then I cannot help you.
Uh, Nickrz, help out the biblically challenged here and identify which commandment you are referring to...I can't think of one that applies to someone taking off their shirt. (although her abs are so sculpted I suppose they could qualify as a "graven image." LOL

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Live a Lush Life
Da Chef

I think Nickrz was referring to the cursing and the commandment regarding using the lord's name in vain.

Now, I saw her take her shirt off on the highlights during Sportcenter.
And again on the next show, and again, and again.. Arg

:::snicker:::

Ya know Arg, oh nevermind. . . .


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KITTEN

Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language.