Dr. Who Series Premier: Rose & The End of the World [Archive]

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 08:45 PM

I thought we were going to see a rougue's gallery of past Doctors, there.

If he's really looked for "Doctor, the; no first name; no last name" he'll either be convinced that it's such a common appelation for mysterious men who appear and disapear that it's hardly noteworthy, or that's it's a HUGE conspiracy! How many photos of Doctor 3 alone must there be?

Ok, so far I LOVE Eccleston. His "This is who I am speach was great, and he does the whole "brilliant but clueless" thing perfectly. Great energy, enthusiasm and goofiness with just a hint of darkness lurking beneath the surface.

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 09:00 PM

Well, "Rose" gets 2 1/2 stars, because the plot was just too hokey and predictable. Great dialogue, though. And classic BBC quality SFX. (At least the sets are better!)

I have high hopes for "The End of the World" (which is on right away) and the rest of the series. Very promising! The ending, after she saves him, set the perfect tone.

Epimetheus

03-17-2006, 09:13 PM

Ok, I give up, what and the repeating memes?

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 09:30 PM

I'm not sure, but this episode is definitely more interesting than the first one. I like the fact that rose and the Doctor have moral values and concerns that are just "off" from one another enough to be interesting. Her concern about the TARDIS effecting her mind, coupled with his unconcern was especially good. He's not just aloof; he's genuinely different (alien, even). I don't remember the Doctors I watched as a child ever seeming quite so much alien as eccentric.

And unlike the last ep, I have no idea how this one will end.

Oh...and "slightly psychic paper"...
I like.

MrFantsyPants

03-17-2006, 09:32 PM

For those that care, I've watched the whole season. My initial reaction was "meh". But it certainly does get better as the season progresses. I feel it was worth sticking with.

shamrock227

03-17-2006, 09:45 PM

I like it very much, so far. So, if it gets even better from here I know I'll be sticking around.

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 10:17 PM

Well...it did get rather predictible at the end--Call it...2 3/4 stars. Still, not bad.

I was hoping for something adult and sophisticated, but it's definitely still a kid's show. I'd read as much in the earlier threads, so I wasn't too surprised. The good news is that it does capture the Doctor Who of my childhood. Even better is that my baby sis is about the age I was when I was a Tom Baker fan. (We're twenty-one years apart!) Maybe I can get her to watch it with me and covertly turn her into a proto-geek girl right under our mom's nose!

A couple of questions:
Was Gallifrey's destruction part of the old series or something new? If from the old show, can anyone catch me up on it without spoiling the new series?

How many Doctors are we up to now? How many do we get? (Before we need some explanation for aditional lives, anyway.) I really like this one, and I'm disapointed to see we get another one next season. (Is that next season for Brits? Does that make two seasons with Eccleston?

What about that abortive American series that was supposed to run on Fox a few years ago? It made the Doctor out to be half-human, without any explanation. Are we pretending that never happened?

RealityChuck

03-17-2006, 10:30 PM

A couple of questions:
Was Gallifrey's destruction part of the old series or something new? If from the old show, can anyone catch me up on it without spoiling the new series?First I've heard of it, and I'm a whovian from way back. I think it was added to give more characterization to him.

How many Doctors are we up to now? How many do we get? (Before we need some explanation for aditional lives, anyway.) I really like this one, and I'm disapointed to see we get another one next season. (Is that next season for Brits? Does that make two seasons with Eccleston?Officially:

William Hartnell (1st)
Patrick Troughton (2nd)
Jon Pertwee (3rd)
Tom Baker (4th)
Peter Davison (5th)
Colin Baker (6th)
Sylvester McCoy (7th)
Paul McGann (8th -- in the Fox TV movie, but part of the continuty)
Christopher Eccleston (9th)

(They've also announced someone for the tenth.)

The doctor has 12 regenerations, so he has four more. However, it's also been established his final regeneration he becomes evil. At the same time, the 12 regeneration rule seems to be arbitrary, as a way to keep from being immortal. In any case, at least one Time Lord (The Master) had a 13th regeneration, so nothing really stops the Doctor from having more than 12.

What about that abortive American series that was supposed to run on Fox a few years ago? It made the Doctor out to be half-human, without any explanation. Are we pretending that never happened?Hard to say. It was part of series continuity, and it would explain a lot (why the Doctor has such a fondness for Earth). So we'll see what they do with it.

I liked both episodes. Not great Dr. Who, but solid and certainly capturing the adventure and charm of the series. It's not a kid's show (Dr. Who never really was), but rather a space adventure like Farscape (when it was good). This did appear to have a bit more adult subjects (e.g., the tree woman assuming a sexual relationship between the Doctor and Rose).

BTW, they changed "Gift of the Time Lords" (the ability to understand alien speech) to "Gift of the TARDIS."

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 11:13 PM

Oops! I thought someone in this thread had already spilled the beans about the tenth Doctor, but I must have read it in one of the other threads. My bad!

Does this series of Dr Who develop any continuing plot arcs that would require spoiler rules like the BSG threads? Just to be safe, let's have the same rules:Spoiler policy: If it's been aired in the US, or if it's purely speculative, no need for a spoiler box. If it's from a future episode, including those that have only aired outside the US, or revealed in blogs, interviews, etc., or if it's speculation based on same, box it. And label the box with a general description of the source/type of spoiler so readers can decide whether or not it's something they want to see.Additionally, since I imagine a lot of people (including me) will be using this series as a jumping off point for exploring other versions of the Doctor, spoilers from older Dr Who series that would potentially ruin an episode for someone who hasn't seen it, or that contain elements of the mythos that are best discovered by watching (use your own judgement), should be boxed. Please identify the episode and the season (or at least Doctor) for any old episodes that are cited in boxed spoilers, both so people can tell if they've seen them, and so they know what to watch if they want to know, say, how Sylvester McCoy's Doctor was killed, without reading the spoilers. It may be overkill, but let's air on the side of consideration for new fans.

(In the Dr. Who TV movie starring Paul McGann that aired on Fox, the 7th Doctor, played by McCoy, was shot by gang members as he stepped out of the TARDIS into New York on New Year's Eve, 1999.)

Alan Smithee

03-17-2006, 11:18 PM

Rhiannon8404

03-18-2006, 12:22 AM

Well, I really enjoyed tonight's episodes. I like Eccleston. Billie Piper is great. I'm looking forward to next week's episodes.

Suburban Plankton

03-18-2006, 12:46 AM

Now that that's taken care of, thanks for the info, Reality Chuck. Where and how was it established that the last Doctor is evil? And how did the Master get a 13th regeneration? I recall that was mentioned in the McGann movie. Was the Master killed in that show? I'd hate if he didn't show up in the new series!

Is it possible to catch up on the mythos by watching the old Dr Who episodes on DVD, or have too few been released?

By now, almost all of the episodes have been released on VHS and/or DVD (except for a number of the first two Doctors' episodes, which were destroyed by the BBC years ago). If you've got the time and money, you can certainly catch up.

As for the evil last regeneration, that comes from the "Trial of a Timelord" series of episodes, which took up an entire season of the 6th Doctor (Colin Baker). I don't recall offhand exactly how The Master got past the "12 regeneration" rule, but it was definitely sneaky and underhanded. As I recall, he was "defeated" in the Fox movie, but I'd be willing to bet he'll be back as soon as the BBC can find an actor that resembled Roger Delgado and Anthony Ainley.

Rhiannon8404

03-18-2006, 01:07 AM

I don't recall offhand exactly how The Master got past the "12 regeneration" rule, but it was definitely sneaky and underhanded. As I recall, he was "defeated" in the Fox movie, but I'd be willing to bet he'll be back as soon as the BBC can find an actor that resembled Roger Delgado and Anthony Ainley.

In the Tom Baker episode "Keeper of Traaken" (in which we first see Sarah Sutton as Nyssa) the Master takes over the body of Nyssa's father. That would be one way he "cheats" death. That would be when Anthony Ainley took over the role as The Master.

garius

03-18-2006, 02:08 AM

Interesting to see the effect that American advert breaks had on it (i saw the first couple of episodes back in the UK before i moved over here) - nothing major cut, but it seemed slightly more hectic. As others have already said, stick with it - it starts good and gets better. I'm looking forward to catching up with the episodes i missed back in the UK.

The destruction of Gallifrey is a new thing - certainly not old school series stuff.

Still seems wierd seeing Billie Piper as an actress (she was originally an Ashlee Simpson type teen pop star back in the UK) but she's certainly proven in both this and other roles that there's far more depth to her than most of us ever thought (she's done some pretty good Shakespeare as well).

Quartz

03-18-2006, 06:07 AM

Without giving away any actual spoilers, there is a thread tying many of the episodes together, and some characters and creatures get second showings. And some of the dialogue is definitely for adults.

There are some very good episodes to come.

Oh, all right: a teensy spoiler:
Exterminate!

Quartz

03-18-2006, 06:14 AM

Actually, I don't know why I bothered. There were a whole load of threads in CS last year.

RealityChuck

03-18-2006, 10:14 AM

I don't think mentioning a cast change is a spoiler, since it's usually announced long before it happens. How the change was made would be one, though. To my mind, a spoiler is talking about plot points. (For example, when Buffy died, everyone knew Sarah Michelle Geller was contracted for another year with the series, so she'd be back the next year.)

The Master did get his 13th regeneration by stealing Tremas's body, so maybe a Time Lord needs a new body to have additional ones. However, in "The Brain of Morbius," the Doctor specifically states that the Time Lords limited themselves to 12 regenerations to prevent them from becoming decadent by being immortal. This would imply that the limit is legal/voluntary rather than biological.

So there's plenty of wiggle room for an indefinite number of Doctors.

Alan Smithee

03-18-2006, 10:21 AM

Has it ever actually been established (in The Five Doctors, maybe?) that Hartnell was actually the Doctor's first body?

Johnny L.A.

03-18-2006, 10:28 AM

Lute Skywatcher

03-18-2006, 11:10 AM

I thought Rose was an interesting take on the old inanimate objects controlled by alien intelligence story (cf.: Trucks/Maximum Overdrive). I haven't watched Dr. Who since Tom Baker, so my memory is pretty fuzzy. In The End Of The World was there a reason why
The Doctor couldn't hop into the TARDIS after the spiders were discovered, and just hop back in time a few hours to stop the sabotage before it started? Aside from the filmmakers wanting to create drama.The TARDIS was impounded as an illegal teleporation device.

ddgryphon

03-18-2006, 11:22 AM

Well, I really enjoyed tonight's episodes. I like Eccleston. Billie Piper is great. I'm looking forward to next week's episodes.

If she's ever blinded in an accident -- I'm marrying her.

And this is my only full exposure to the good Doctor and I found it fun!

Lumpy

03-18-2006, 03:19 PM

Is the newest Dr. Who in continuity with the old series, or is this a "re-imagining" along the lines of the new Battlestar Galactica?

The current history of The Master:In "The Deadly Assassin", it was established that the Master had burned through his twelve regenerations prematurely. At the end of that episode, he gained enough energy to prolong his last life in an extremely decayed state. In "Keeper of Traaken" he took over a non-Time Lord's body. In the Fox TV movie, he was caught and executed by the Daleks, but managed to preserve his essence in an ectoplasmic form that took over a human body. While trying to steal the Doctor's body he was swallowed/ absorbed by the TARDIS. Chance that he is truly finally dead? Infinitesmal.
While the Doctor can participate in history, he apparently cannot or must not "cheat" by using the TARDIS to retroactively alter anything he himself has taken part in. For example, he let his companion Adric die rather than try for a "but we went back and saved him at the last second" rescue.

The Doctor's future: In the "Trial of a Time Lord" arc it was revealed that the Valyard was either the last of the Doctors or a sort of manifestation of all the suppressed evil in the Doctor's personality, I'm unclear as to which. In one of the seventh Doctor stories he is supposed to someday become the Merlin of Arthurian legend, though whether he will end up sealed in a tree for eternity isn't necessarily certain.

cerberus

03-18-2006, 03:32 PM

Well, they've pretty much tossed out the continuity by having this guy be "The Last Doctor", and by indicating that the Time Lords and Gallifrey are gone...Or am I missing something?

Lute Skywatcher

03-18-2006, 03:56 PM

As far as he knows, he's the only one who survived, likely by not being on Gallifrey at the time. There could be others that he's not aware of.

Lute Skywatcher

03-18-2006, 04:00 PM

The Time Lord known as K'anpo is likely still around, if he hasn't used up all his regenerations.

Hugh Jass

03-18-2006, 06:56 PM

From Wikipedia about the fate of Gallifrey:

In the BBC Books novel The Ancestor Cell by Peter Anghelides and Stephen Cole, Gallifrey was destroyed as a result of the Eighth Doctor's desire to prevent the voodoo cult Faction Paradox from starting a war between the Time Lords and an unnamed Enemy. This also apparently (and retroactively) wiped the Time Lords from history. It is unclear what the attitude of the new Doctor Who television series is toward the information in the novels and audio plays, the latter produced by Big Finish Productions. However, a number of writers of the novels and audio plays are also writing for the new television series.

In the last regular Eighth Doctor novel, The Gallifrey Chronicles by Lance Parkin, it was revealed that while Gallifrey was destroyed, the Time Lords were not erased from history. However, the cataclysm set up an event horizon in time that prevented anyone from entering Gallifrey's relative past or travelling from it to the present or future. The Time Lords also survived within the Matrix, which had been downloaded into the Eighth Doctor's mind, but their reconstruction required a sufficiently advanced computer. At the novel's end, the question of whether or not the Time Lords would be restored remained unanswered. However, it can be assumed that both they and the planet were restored at some point before the start of 2005 series if the novels are to remain consistent with the new series' continuity.

In the 2005 season episode The End of the World, the Ninth Doctor stated that his home planet — not mentioned by name, but presumably Gallifrey — was destroyed in a war and that he is the last of the Time Lords. However, the episode also indicated that the Time Lords are remembered in the far future.

Subsequently, in Dalek, it was revealed that the last great Time War was fought between the Time Lords and the Daleks, ending in the obliteration of both sides and with only two apparent survivors; the Doctor and a lone Dalek that had somehow fallen through time and crashed on Earth. At the conclusion of that episode, that surviving Dalek self-destructed, leaving the Doctor believing that he was the sole survivor of the Time War. However, as the Daleks returned in the two-part 2005 series finale, The Parting of the Ways, the fate of the Time Lords may not be as definitive as well.

Alan Smithee

03-18-2006, 07:07 PM

It doesn't do any good to box spoilers if you don't tell us what episodes they're from! Please don't combine spilers from multiple episodes.

Hugh Jass's post includes spoilers from two novels about the eighth (McGann) Doctor: The Ancestry Cell and The Gallifrey Chronicles in the first two paragraphs, and spoilers for the episodes Daleks and Parting of the Ways, yet to be aired here, in the fourth paragraph.

The third paragraph is about The End of the World. Spoilers about episodes that have aired here do not need to be boxed.

Nonsuch

03-18-2006, 11:50 PM

I haven't watched Dr. Who since Tom Baker, so my memory is pretty fuzzy. In The End Of The World was there a reason why
The Doctor couldn't hop into the TARDIS after the spiders were discovered, and just hop back in time a few hours to stop the sabotage before it started? Aside from the filmmakers wanting to create drama.In the Third Doctor story "The Day of the Daleks," the Doctor's companion asks basically the same question about a time-traveling opponent: if they failed in their mission the first time, why not go back to an earlier point in time and try again?

The Doctor explains that that would never work owing to "the Blinovitch Limitation Effect." He's interrupted before he can go into detail (darn the luck!). So basically, the answer is, "We [the makers of the show] know it isn't logical, but we'd have no drama otherwise."

Monkey Chews

03-19-2006, 12:54 AM

What about that abortive American series that was supposed to run on Fox a few years ago? It made the Doctor out to be half-human, without any explanation. Are we pretending that never happened?That fact hasn't been mentioned again, but it's never been contradicted either.

However, it's also been established his final regeneration he becomes evil.Not quite. Spoilers for "The Trial of a Time Lord" and "Logopolis", from the old series:

The Doctor is put on trial by the Valeyard, who is revealed to be a kind of projection or distillation of the Doctor's dark side, who somehgow gained independent existence, somewhere between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations. Presumably, much like the Watcher in "Logopolis" was a projection from between his fourth and fifth incarnations.
Well, they've pretty much tossed out the continuity by having this guy be "The Last Doctor", and by indicating that the Time Lords and Gallifrey are gone...Or am I missing something?The new series is definitely in continuity with the old series. They've never referenced Eccleston's Doctor as being "The Last Doctor", only the last Time Lord. And Gallifrey seems to have been destroyed just recently before the new series started.

The question of why the Doctor can't go back and change events he has participated in is actually addressed later this season. Spoilers:

In the episode "Father's Day", they actually do go back in time to try and correct something. The Doctor and Rose are supposed to just watch their former selves from a neaby hiding spot until a certain point before they can take action. But Rose interferes too early, and changes her own past, causing time-eating monsters to be unleased upon the universe, which is no good for anybody.

The Doctor explains that that would never work owing to "the Blinovitch Limitation Effect." He's interrupted before he can go into detail (darn the luck!).... but luckily its brought up again in the fifth Doctor story "Mawdryn Undead", where:
there are a past and future Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart running around, and the Bliovitch Limitation Effect causes a huge explosion when they run into one another.

I can't believe I know this shit.

Alan Smithee

03-19-2006, 11:18 AM

That fact hasn't been mentioned again, but it's never been contradicted either.

What's the fannon on this? Is it mentioned in novels, fanfic, etc? Has a non-cannon explanation been worked out? Or are the fans waiting for official explication/pretending it didn't happen?

scr4

03-19-2006, 02:07 PM

Ok, I give up, what and the repeating memes?
I didn't understand the stuff about repeating memes either. Can anyone explain?

What Exit?

03-19-2006, 03:43 PM

I am late to the thread. I finally got time to watch the 2 episodes today. I enjoyed them quite a bit and I had the advantage of watching it with my 5 year old son. I find good kid's show are better when watched with kids. I really enjoyed it.
I like this Doctor better already than any since Baker. I guess I am not a Diehard fan. Baker is the only Doctor I really enjoyed. I'll be recording next Friday's, I don't know when I can watch it. How many Episodes will be in this run? I thought I saw 26?

Jim

ouryL

03-20-2006, 01:27 AM

I can hardly wait for Barrowman!! :D

Silentgoldfish

03-20-2006, 01:45 AM

How many Episodes will be in this run? I thought I saw 26?

It's British. There's 13 episodes.

ddgryphon

03-20-2006, 01:48 AM

Saw the second episode today (I missed the fact that they were airing two eps on Friday and so, didn't set my tape appropriately).

Liked it much better than the first. It is great fun!

Are they all this much fun? (I mean previous incarnations--though you can speak to the current season if you like)

Monkey Chews

03-20-2006, 07:03 AM

On the Doctor being half-human:

What's the fannon on this? Is it mentioned in novels, fanfic, etc? Has a non-cannon explanation been worked out? Or are the fans waiting for official explication/pretending it didn't happen?A couple of different possible explanations have been offered, mostly through the novels:

(Spoilers for the novels, particularly “Lungbarrow”)
During the novels, we find out that the Doctor is a genetic reincarnation of one of the ancient heroes of Gallifrey, a mysterious figure known as the Other, who helped Rassilon and Omega found Gallifreyan society and discover time travel. The Other died by throwing himself into a Loom, one of the devices that “weave” Gallifreyans into existence (as they are no longer able to reproduce naturally). Several thousand years later the Doctor pops out of a Loom and is mocked by his cousins for having something none of them have: a bellybutton. So one possible explanation is that The Other was half-human. We don’t actually know much about him at all.

(Incidentally, the Doctor then manages to travel back in time to ancient Gallifrey, where he meets The Other’s granddaughter Susan, who instantly recognises him as her grandfather, and the two head off to have adventures in time and space, as per the first episode of the old series.)
Another speculated explanation is that it is only the Eighth Doctor who is half-human – that for various reasons, he regenerated into a half-human form. (This is not without precedent either – if memory serves, when Romana was cycling through different forms during her first regeneration, one of them was clearly alien). Some have speculated that this is why he immediately seems to behave so differently to other Doctors – more emotional, snogging the first chick who comes along, etc.

Incidentally, some of the novels (which were produced between the old and new series, detailing the adventures of the seventh Doctor up until the time of the Fox TV movie, and then the eighth Doctor) were written by people involved with the both the old series and the new. Andrew Cartmel, Ben Aaronovitch and Marc Platt were writers during the last few seasons of the old series, and planted lots of questions and hints about the doctor’s origins, which were intended to be played out in Season 27, until the show was cancelled after Season 26. This material was explored futher in the Seventh Doctor books and then explained in Marc Platt’s novel “Lungbarrow”. Paul Cornell (who wrote “Father’s Day” from the new series) and Russel T. Davies (who is the executive producer) also wrote novels for the series. So even if the production team on the new series don't consider themselves bound by the events of the novels, they are at least aware of them.

LonesomePolecat

03-20-2006, 07:18 AM

I like this Doctor better already than any since Baker. I guess I am not a Diehard fan. Baker is the only Doctor I really enjoyed.
Jim
Amen to that. I'm a Baker fan to the point that I found the shows without Baker in the old series unwatchable, so I guess I'm not a diehard Doctor Who fan either. This new guy did pretty good, though, and I'm definitely going to be watching future episodes.

Now if only they'll come through with new Futurama episodes like Billy West promised ...

msmith537

03-20-2006, 08:15 AM

Other people have stated before that Dr Who is primarily a childrens show. Granted, the last time I saw the old show I was, in fact, a child but what make it a childrens show any more than other light sci-fi fare like Farscape or Stargate SG-1?

Anyhow, I've managed to..ahem...aquire the series and I would say overall it's clever, fun and amusing. IMHO, later episodes are much better. The only complaint I have is there's TOO much continuity across all the episodes (although it is explained why) and too much time spent in England circa Rose's time.

For those who are interested:

The introduction of the swashbuckling ambiguously gay Captain Jack (are captains ever NOT named Jack) later in the season ads some additional comedy.

Best line: "Who looks at a screwdriver and says 'hey! I bet this could be MORE sonic!?'"

What Exit?

03-20-2006, 08:33 AM

Other people have stated before that Dr Who is primarily a childrens show. Granted, the last time I saw the old show I was, in fact, a child but what make it a childrens show any more than other light sci-fi fare like Farscape or Stargate SG-1?

But they (the Producers) have said it was a childrens show since the beginning. There is even a Dr. Who Episode where he is back in November 23, 1963 and you hear in the background the announcement of the new Childrens Program on BBC starting that Evening. This doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it, it is just the primary target audience for the show.
Great Childrens programming should appeal to adults. Bugs Bunny, Animaniacs, Incredibles and many others all appeal to adults while being aimed at kids.
Even the New Scooby Doo Cartoon has added a lot of in-jokes aimed for the adults watching with their kids. I was watching with my kids an epsiode where Scooby is doing a stunt for a bad movie and leaps over a pool with Sharks. Velma says "Who would have ever thought that Scooby would Jump the Shark". Not a joke aimed for kids but for their parents.

Jim

Maus Magill

03-20-2006, 08:44 AM

I've started a new thread over here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7213400#post7213400) so we may catch people up to the current series, and not have to clutter this thread up with massive spoiler boxes.

-- OP --

I really enjoyed "End of the World" it felt like a classic Doctor Who episode. Another nice touch was the "retro" or Steampunk feel of the TARDIS controls. Much less high tech than what Peter Davidson was flying around.

kelly5078

03-20-2006, 09:44 AM

What's the fannon on this? Is it mentioned in novels, fanfic, etc? Has a non-cannon explanation been worked out? Or are the fans waiting for official explication/pretending it didn't happen?
The explanation is that this abomination, which was supposed to somehow pique the interest of the American TV industry pulled out one of the hoariest devices in TV dramas. Somehow it's supposedly more interesting if the character is half human. Or half-white/half-Indian, etc. Maybe they thought they could milk this in a Spock sort of way, setting up some sort of internal conflict. Who knows.

Anyway, it's best to just forget this tripe. Paul McGann would probably have made a good Doctor, but I consider the whole thing a forgery.

Lips_Obsession

03-20-2006, 09:53 AM

The Master did get his 13th regeneration by stealing Tremas's body, so maybe a Time Lord needs a new body to have additional ones. However, in "The Brain of Morbius," the Doctor specifically states that the Time Lords limited themselves to 12 regenerations to prevent them from becoming decadent by being immortal. This would imply that the limit is legal/voluntary rather than biological.

So there's plenty of wiggle room for an indefinite number of Doctors.

In The Five Doctors, ...

...the Time Lords offer the Master another full cycle of regenerations if he will rescue the Doctor from the Zone... so this is another indication that there are already discussed methods to bypass the 12 regeneration limit.

msmith537

03-20-2006, 09:57 AM

But they (the Producers) have said it was a childrens show since the beginning.

Right, but it seems a little violent and (sometimes) dark for what I generally associate with childrens programming.

Maybe I'm just used to our American programming standards. We have "childrens" shows which are pretty much infantile and obviously designed for small children. You have heavier shows like Law & Order or even the new Battlestar Galactica which is pretty dark and violent. Then we have shows for everyone else.

I would consider Doctor Who to be along the lines of shows like The A-Team, Knight Rider and half the crap on the Sci Fi or USA Networks channels. Not specifically childrens programming, but light, adolescent and escapist. Stuff that would appeal to a 15 year old, as opposed to an 8 year old.

yojimbo

03-20-2006, 10:16 AM

Right, but it seems a little violent and (sometimes) dark for what I generally associate with childrens programming.
When I was a kid there were a few episodes that scared me senseless. Just differences in what the BBC classes as aimed at kids.

There are episodes later on in the run that deal with bi-sexuallity and are also quite freaky(even for an adult). I wondered in another thread how this would be handled in the states.

What Exit?

03-20-2006, 10:35 AM

When I was a kid there were a few episodes that scared me senseless. Just differences in what the BBC classes as aimed at kids.

There are episodes later on in the run that deal with bi-sexuallity and are also quite freaky(even for an adult). I wondered in another thread how this would be handled in the states.
I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Any UK dopers that can confirm this? I don't remember where I read it.

Jim

Rhiannon8404

03-20-2006, 10:55 AM

I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Any UK dopers that can confirm this? I don't remember where I read it.

Jim
I've heard this, too. I think I saw it on a "special feature" on a DVD I bought, but I don't remember which one. I have so many. Maybe it was "Dr. Who and Curse of Fatal Death" which was a Comic Relief spoof. There were several commentaries on that one. It's very much worth seeing BTW. You have Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Grant, Richard E. Grant, Jim Broadbent and Joanna Lumley all playing the Doctor.

RealityChuck

03-20-2006, 11:52 AM

I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Any UK dopers that can confirm this? I don't remember where I read it. Nicola Bryant said something like this when she was hired to play Peri -- that she had watched it that way as a kid. Maybe that's where you saw it.

SCSimmons

03-20-2006, 11:52 AM

I would consider Doctor Who to be along the lines of shows like The A-Team, Knight Rider and half the crap on the Sci Fi or USA Networks channels. Not specifically childrens programming, but light, adolescent and escapist. Stuff that would appeal to a 15 year old, as opposed to an 8 year old.

Hee-hee.

Opus the Penguin: "The truth, Steve, is that 'Knight Rider' is a kid's show."

Steve Dallas: "No way! NO F*^%&('n WAY!!!"

Ximenean

03-20-2006, 12:12 PM

I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Any UK dopers that can confirm this? I don't remember where I read it.
Yes, it's true. Supposedly everybody can remember a particular Dr. Who monster that scared the crap out of them so much that hiding behind furniture became necessary.

I bet a lot of today's eight-year-olds had that reaction to the episode set in WWII London, which I think is one of the ones yojimbo was alluding to. But indeed, that episode probably gave *everybody* the willies, it was extremely creepy.

shamrock227

03-20-2006, 12:53 PM

Anyhow, I've managed to..ahem...aquire the series and I would say overall it's clever, fun and amusing. IMHO, later episodes are much better. The only complaint I have is there's TOO much continuity across all the episodes (although it is explained why) and too much time spent in England circa Rose's time.[/spoiler]
(bolding mine)

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but how can there be too much continuity?

Peter Morris

03-20-2006, 02:13 PM

I
And unlike the last ep, I have no idea how [End Of The World] will end.

It aint over 'til the flat lady singes.

What Exit?

03-20-2006, 02:24 PM

It aint over 'til the flat lady singes.
:D

msmith537

03-21-2006, 08:26 PM

(bolding mine)

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but how can there be too much continuity?

It's like this - Dude has a ship that can appear anywhere and anytime in the universe. They spend all their time around Earth and it's all somewhat interconnected. At least one episode to some random planet might have been cool.

Opus the Penguin: "The truth, Steve, is that 'Knight Rider' is a kid's show."

I was actually thinking that, but I couldn't remember the reference.

MacSpon

03-21-2006, 08:43 PM

I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Any UK dopers that can confirm this? I don't remember where I read it.
I personally had the shit scared out of me by a Doctor Who story when I was a kid, yes. This would have been in the early seventies.

God, I loved that program. :) And still do ...

shamrock227

03-21-2006, 09:41 PM

It's like this - Dude has a ship that can appear anywhere and anytime in the universe. They spend all their time around Earth and it's all somewhat interconnected. At least one episode to some random planet might have been cool.

aaahhh. Gotcha. Thanks, I never really thought about it that way.

I *ahem* "acquired" the next couple of episodes. I am loving Eccleston as The Doctor and I really like the chemistry between him and Rose. Damn shame that he's only around for one season. I won't spoil them for anyone, but IMHO the next episode is just so so, but the two after that are real nail biters. I'll be interested to see what you all think.

yojimbo

03-22-2006, 04:23 AM

I am loving Eccleston as The Doctor and I really like the chemistry between him and Rose. Damn shame that he's only around for one season.
The new guy is very good as well so it's not that much of a problem. There was a xmas special episode on BBC which introduced him and he was very promising indeed.

Monkey Chews

03-22-2006, 09:11 AM

IMHO the next episode is just so so, but the two after that are real nail biters. I'll be interested to see what you all think.I thought pretty much the exact opposite of that. :D

shamrock227

03-22-2006, 11:31 AM

I thought pretty much the exact opposite of that. :D

It's ok. There's no shame in being wrong. ;)

Nonsuch

03-22-2006, 03:28 PM

According to Outpost Gallifrey, the ratings were good (http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php#newsitemEEuFpuFkuuHcktIgwY). That always helps.

Lumpy

03-22-2006, 05:21 PM

Nonsuch

03-22-2006, 07:25 PM

Stupid, perhaps pointless question, but:

Does the name "Gallifrey" come from anywhere, or was it made up for the show? Does it mean anything in terms of the syllables in old/middle French or English?The name was made up by series writer Robert Holmes. It has no etymologic significance that I know of.

Quartz

03-23-2006, 02:25 AM

I thought Doctor Who was actually celebrated in England as the Kids show you watched by "peeking from behind the Couch."
Well, on the couch but behind the cushions. :D

Unintentionally Blank

03-23-2006, 06:59 AM

For those that care, I've watched the whole season. My initial reaction was "meh". But it certainly does get better as the season progresses. I feel it was worth sticking with.

Even more so, there are a few episodes with good HARD Sci-fi stories and stuff to give little kids nightmares. Dr. Who was always about that. (EX TER MI NATE!)

Snooooopy

03-24-2006, 11:31 PM

These episodes are so ... short. I'm used to settling down for at least an hour and a half to enjoy the good Doctor's adventures.

Quartz

03-25-2006, 03:24 AM

These episodes are so ... short. I'm used to settling down for at least an hour and a half to enjoy the good Doctor's adventures.
They used to be shorter. Adventures used to be four or six or whatever episodes of half an hour.

Peter Morris

03-25-2006, 06:35 AM

Exactly, they used to be 90 minute or 2 hour stories, albeit split into multiple episodes. These stories are much shorter, though yes the individual episodes are longer.

Snooooopy

03-25-2006, 10:30 AM

They used to be shorter. Adventures used to be four or six or whatever episodes of half an hour.

You're not American, I presume? Over here, the public broadcasting stations would stitch all of the episodes of one story into one gigantic mass. It was like getting a new Doctor Who movie every week!

Lute Skywatcher

03-25-2006, 10:41 AM

Exactly, they used to be 90 minute or 2 hour stories, albeit split into multiple episodes.Occasionally even longer, say five hours (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/wargames/), necessitating two 90-minute movies when shown in the US.

Lute Skywatcher

03-25-2006, 10:45 AM

Erm...two 150-minute movies.

RealityChuck

03-25-2006, 10:47 AM

I'm less concerned about the stitching together as the overall shortness.

Dr. Who stories were varying lengths (especially in the early days, where they ran between one and 12 episodes), but settled down by the third doctor to four episodes of about 22 minutes per show (with one six-episode story a year). The vast majority of stories were four episodes each, which fits into 90 minutes when edited together. There was nearly always a cliffhanger at the end of each episode.

But cutting out a half-hour of story time, though, it requires either a simpler plot or short, quicker scenes. You don't have as much a chance to get to know peripheral characters, and see less of them. It's bound to affect the storytelling, especially since, with room for commercials, it looks like the running time is probably only slightly more than two episodes of the old show.

Rhiannon8404

03-25-2006, 12:50 PM

Alan Smithee

03-26-2006, 12:35 AM

Sorry I didn't start another thread yesterday for "The Unquiet Dead." I was doing duty at my baby sister's birthday party looking after 13 eight-year-olds. I meant to start the thread beforehand, but didn't manage. Having seen finally seen the episode on DVR, though, and since there seems to be sustained interest, I went ahead and started this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7234123), even though it's late.

As far as the issue of episode length goes, I'm not sure I don't like this format better. I haven't seen that many classic episodes as an adult, but from what I have seen, it seems that even the best stories often had awkward pacing. They veered between ubearably long scenes of running through tunnles and rushed and out of place climaxes. I think the problem was not the legnth of the overall stories, but the shorntness of the individual episodes, which just weren't able to build enough steam before having to put someone in danger. As a result, the movies often lost focus and momentum as the Doctor wasted time until suddenly and without reason to he had to rush in and confront the villain at the end of 22 minutes. I'd rather see more two- and three- (or even four-)part stories made up of 46-minute (or whatever it is) episodes. The best of both worlds!