The lovely Alexis Arquette: First openly trans reality TV star?

[Ensign Edison]

Arquette sister Alexis is now appearing on VH1's The Surreal Life. I was nervous when I heard this, because I was afraid she would be used for endless tranny jokes and mistreated in editing. Well, having seen the first episode now, I can say I'm no longer so worried about that.

Alexis seems to want to educate as many people as possible about the women and men like her who have had to take steps to feel at home in their own bodies and lives. She also seems like something of an attention whore/drama queen who isn't ashamed to admit it, and someone whose natural charm probably gets her out of a lot of the scraps her inner bitch goddess gets her into.

I don't know for sure if she's the first openly trans woman on reality TV, but I can't think of any others. I do know I'll watch just to see more of her and how the other sub-celebs react to her, and most of all how the producers and editors present her story.

[lissener]

Wow. When did Alexis get the surgery? She had a pretty well established career as a male, although was always openly gender-bendy. I may actually have to watch that awful, awful show.

[Cat Jones]

Language Question - here does "tranny" mean transvestite or transsexual ?

If the latter then the UK beat you to it - the 2004 winner of Channel Four's Big Brother was Nadia Almada (http://www.bigbrotheronline.co.uk/bb5/contestants/nadia.htm) a Portugueuse transsexual.

[lissener]

. . . Alexis played the kid who empties the huge gun into the wall behind Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction.

[Cat Jones]

guess lissener 's post answers my question :smack:

[Ensign Edison]

Wow. When did Alexis get the surgery? She had a pretty well established career as a male, although was always openly gender-bendy. I may actually have to watch that awful, awful show.

She has not yet even had top surgery, I believe, but she stated that she no longer wishes any images of her in her career as a man to be shown, though they did show one anyway, of course, but it was very brief and amongst many other images of her as herself. She did indicate that she's going for surgery soon.

[lissener]

. . . Alexis played the kid who empties the huge gun into the wall behind Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction.

[Push You Down]

Wow.. there is no one at all interesting this season.

Sherman Helmsley maybe. And Ma Brady if she makes out with him.

[Honey]

It's hard to top Omarosa and Janice Dickinson. Won't someone please convince Danny Bonaduce to do the Surreal Life?

[pravnik]

. . . Alexis played the kid who empties the huge gun into the wall behind Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction.Ah, they're 1990's "death scenes."

[DocCathode]

Let's not forget Miriam of There's Something About Miriam. The only people she wasn't open with were the men competing for her on the show.


Bitch.

[Ludovic]

I hear Alexis played the kid who emptied some sort of firearm at Sam Jackson in that famous movie....Pulp Fiction, maybe?

[Shirley Ujest]

Hey, who played the guy emptying a clip in Pulp Fiction????????!!!!

[Kalhoun]

Never heard of him til now. Never knew he was the Pulp Fiction gun-unloader kid. Never knew there was another Arquette (though I should have suspected). Where the hell have I been?

[JohnBckWLD]

Where the hell have I been?In Jersey (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363909)?

[Otto]

Hey, who played the guy emptying a clip in Pulp Fiction????????!!!!
Duran Duran?

Everything about Alexis on the show says "drag queen" to me, not "woman." She behaves as a woman pretty much exactly how she behaved as a drag queen (c.f. Wigstock). It must be exhausting to live with her performing 24 hours a day.

[Ensign Edison]

Duran Duran?

Everything about Alexis on the show says "drag queen" to me, not "woman." She behaves as a woman pretty much exactly how she behaved as a drag queen (c.f. Wigstock). It must be exhausting to live with her performing 24 hours a day.

Everything except the woman's own words. Sorry she's not living up to your standards for femaleness, but for one, I don't think we've seen enough to know she's constantly "on", and for another, of course she's behaving the same. She's the same person. It's not like there's some "girl" switch that gets flipped when a transwoman transitions, giving her a whole new personality.

[Otto]

I'm not saying she's not a woman. I'm saying that the way she's presenting herself as a woman is remarkably identical to how she presented herself as a drag queen. And generally speaking, the drag queens I've known in and out of drag don't act like drag queens when they're not in drag. They have separate personae. Alexis, based on not only what we've seen on the show but what I've seen of her in other settings, seems only to have the one. It has nothing to do with my standards of femaleness.

[Ensign Edison]

I'm not saying she's not a woman. I'm saying that the way she's presenting herself as a woman is remarkably identical to how she presented herself as a drag queen. And generally speaking, the drag queens I've known in and out of drag don't act like drag queens when they're not in drag. They have separate personae. Alexis, based on not only what we've seen on the show but what I've seen of her in other settings, seems only to have the one. It has nothing to do with my standards of femaleness.

You're confusing me, then. What does "I'm saying that the way she's presenting herself as a woman is remarkably identical to how she presented herself as a drag queen." mean? What's remarkable about it? She's the same person she always was. She has, as I noted in my OP, a hell of a personality, it's true, but so what?

I guess you must have only known one kind of drag queen, then. I've known many different kinds, and some are definitely divas all the time.

[Lochdale]

I actually watch the Surreal Life and enjoy it :o

She doesn't interest me at all. The playboy model is all sorts of hot though. The guy they had compete to get on seems utterly pointless. Obviously they didn't think the current cast were ridiculous enough as is. I'd still throw one into Tanwy Kitaen though.

[Ensign Edison]

I'd still throw one into Tanwy Kitaen though.

This makes me wonder if anybody's watching because they want to have sex with Sherman Helmsley.

[Kalhoun]

You're confusing me, then. What does "I'm saying that the way she's presenting herself as a woman is remarkably identical to how she presented herself as a drag queen." mean? What's remarkable about it? She's the same person she always was. She has, as I noted in my OP, a hell of a personality, it's true, but so what?

I guess you must have only known one kind of drag queen, then. I've known many different kinds, and some are definitely divas all the time.
I get what Otto's saying. I, too, thought that "drag queen" was an act; a personality created for the stage.

[gigi]

And Ma Brady if she makes out with him.She can actually be pretty raunchy if I'm remembering some of her appearances correctly.

[JeffB]

Arquette sister Alexis is now appearing on VH1's The Surreal Life....She also seems like something of an attention whoreI'd guess the first pretty much requires the second.

[cerberus]

from Merriam-Webster, online:

transvestite
: a person and especially a male who adopts the dress and often the behavior typical of the opposite sex especially for purposes of emotional or sexual gratification

cross-dressing
: the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex

All transvestites cross-dress, but not all cross-dressers are transvestites.

transsexual
: a person who psychologically identifies with the opposite sex and may seek to live as a member of this sex especially by undergoing surgery and hormone therapy to obtain the necessary physical appearance (as by changing the external sex organs)

drag queen
: a male homosexual who dresses as a woman

To be a drag queen, one must be a gay male...

From wiki, with the usual disclaimers ...

Drag Kings are female-bodied or female-identified persons who either* temporarily attempt to pass as men, usually off-stage, or* perform male characters in often ostentatious mens' clothes on stage, often with hilariously exaggerated macho attitudes, or * show and/or perform a mixture of male and female characteristics, both on and off stage. This is also called gender-bending or genderqueer or* attempt to present themselves in a male gender role without identifying as a man.

To be a drag king, one need only be a female...

Drag Queens are performers - usually gay men, sometimes transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

The common denominator of a Draq King/Queen is the spoofing of exaggerated gender image and behaviour.

Confused yet?

Arquette is best described as a drag queen who is either milking the DQ thing for all it's worth, or who is truly transgendered and went through a stage of drag queen behaviour.

If Arquette went through everything but the vaginoplasty, the correct term is pre-operative transsexual.

[Ensign Edison]

If Arquette went through everything but the vaginoplasty, the correct term is pre-operative transsexual.

The correct term is whatever Ms. Arquette prefers, which in this case is 'transgender woman', according to her own statements. She is who she is regardless of whether random strangers on the internet think she's lying for the fame or whatever, I'm sure.

[cerberus]

Words have meaning, :wally , and I'm attempting to clarify some of the confusion regarding the vernacular "trannie" that was expressed earlier in this thread.

If we use the words as they are currently defined, Arquette started out as a drag queen, and at some point transitioned into a working transsexual, with the publicly-stated intention of undergoing full-on SRS. And based on sporadic comments made by Arquette, she apparantly fully intends to proceed fully with SRS.

There is nothing wrong with distinguishing between the various types of GBLT people.

If Arquette wants to call herself a transgendered, invisible pink unicorn, that's just fine. But the record indicates that she is a pre-operative, male-to-female transsexual.

[Eve]

While we're defining things (and I'm old enough not to know what the hell I'm called this week), could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" and is really de trop in such polite company as the SDMB. (a-hem)

[Ensign Edison]

Words have meaning, :wally , and I'm attempting to clarify some of the confusion regarding the vernacular "trannie" that was expressed earlier in this thread.

My comment was meant as an addition to yours, not a contradiction of it. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. Please don't 'putz' me, this isn't the Pit.

[Ensign Edison]

While we're defining things (and I'm old enough not to know what the hell I'm called this week), could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" and is really de trop in such polite company as the SDMB. (a-hem)

I used the word in my OP in full knowledge of its connations. The context was 'tranny jokes', meaning, jokes derogatory to trans folks.

[cerberus]

Sorry, thought I was being broad-sided for imputing Arquette's intentions.

There is a blurring of transsexual versus tranvestite. Tranny used to refer somewhat casually to transvestites, IIRC.

[Ensign Edison]

I used the word in my OP in full knowledge of its connations. The context was 'tranny jokes', meaning, jokes derogatory to trans folks.

Connations?

Connotations, of course.

[irishgirl]

If you want a gay man who dresses like a woman (and who has had extensive facial cosmetic surgery to appear more feminine), but who denies being transexual, transvestitie or a Drag Queen, you want Pete Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Burns).

As for Alexis, well more power to her, whatever makes her happy (although I suspect that reality TV isn't it).

[Monkey Chews]

While we're defining things (and I'm old enough not to know what the hell I'm called this week), could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" and is really de trop in such polite company as the SDMB. (a-hem)Really?? Is this true? I work in a residential service that has a fair number of transgendered clients, and includes several transgendered workers, and all of us - workers and clients - use "tranny" all the time. And not in a "reclaimed" way like "queer", but just as a usual, everyday term. Then again, we're in Australia, and Australians like to abbreviate everything. (From what I've picked up from this board, I think we also use "queer" in more polite circles than would be done in the US.)

Do others find this term offensive? On the same level as "nigger"? Is there a difference between its use in Australia and the US? I was actually quite shocked when I read Eve's objection, as it's a term I use all the time, and wouldn't have thought twice about using it on the SDMB. (Which I obviously won't be doing in the future, so thanks for the heads up.)

[Banquet Bear]

...Georgina Beyer (http://www.ps.parliament.govt.nz/mp137.htm) is a bit of a Kiwi celebrity: she was the first transexual to be elected mayor (winning the mayoralty in an area with a white, rural majority), and the first transexual to be elected into parliament, where she is currently in her second term. She is a fantastic lady, and one of the most polite people I had the pleasure of meeting in my time working at parliament. She starred in the New Zealand version of Dancing with the Stars (http://www.georginabeyer.com/photos/dancing_290405.htm) where she simply dazzled on the dance floor. Definitely not the first openly transexual on reality TV, but most certainly one of the highlights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgina_Beyer

[DocCathode]

Really?? Is this true? I work in a residential service that has a fair number of transgendered clients, and includes several transgendered workers, and all of us - workers and clients - use "tranny" all the time. And not in a "reclaimed" way like "queer", but just as a usual, everyday term.

I've only heard it used in a reclaimed way, or as an insult.

Do others find this term offensive? On the same level as "nigger"?

Without the cues of face to face interaction, or a larger context, I assume that the person using the term is unaware of the connotation, or is trying to offend.

[Kalhoun]

I've only heard it used in a reclaimed way, or as an insult.



Without the cues of face to face interaction, or a larger context, I assume that the person using the term is unaware of the connotation, or is trying to offend.
I originally thought it was "shorthand". It never occurred to me that it was insulting. I was corrected on these very boards.

[DocCathode]

On the SDMB, I assume that any poster using the term is unaware of its conotation. We have people from many countries and cultures. English is not the first language of some posters. The movements by various groups to reclaim words makes it unclear what is and is not an acceptable term.

Please don't view this as an attack, but simply as information.

[Ensign Edison]

On the SDMB, I assume that any poster using the term is unaware of its conotation. We have people from many countries and cultures. English is not the first language of some posters. The movements by various groups to reclaim words makes it unclear what is and is not an acceptable term.

Please don't view this as an attack, but simply as information.

I was the only one to use the term, I believe, and subsequent uses just quoted me. I thought my context made it clear that I wasn't using the word seriously, given my obvious trans-positive position, but I do apologize for failing to be clear enough. I have this problem often around here -- see my sig, the trouble with me is I think things are funny. ;)

Anyway, it provided a Learning Moment, so no harm done, I hope. Oh, yeah, and I too have only heard it either in a reclamation context or a fetishistic one, that being the problem to begin with, of course. Just to back up the good Doc's statement there.

[Beware of Doug]

While we're defining things (and I'm old enough not to know what the hell I'm called this week), could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" :eek: I always figured it was a bit crass – after all, it's a car part. You don't go around calling people "driveshafts" or "crankcases"*. But an outright slur...I guess every group has to agree on at least one.

*As opposed to "crank cases," who are all over the damn place.

[Ethilrist]

:eek: I always figured it was a bit crass – after all, it's a car part. You don't go around calling people "driveshafts" or "crankcases"*. But an outright slur...I guess every group has to agree on at least one.

*As opposed to "crank cases," who are all over the damn place.
You just reminded me of the DSL commercial, where people were using "modem" as an insult.

"Moooommmm! Sally just called me a modem!"
"I'm calling her mother!"

[supervenusfreak]

She can actually be pretty raunchy if I'm remembering some of her appearances correctly.

And bitchy too! It seems like Flo is being set up to be the mother hen/ Judge Judy of the season.

I would definitely consider Alexis to be a pre op transexual, even though she has not been altered by surgery yet. And yes I agree that it would be draining to live with her 24/7. I can't wait to see the restaurant fight too!

[Rigamarole]

While we're defining things (and I'm old enough not to know what the hell I'm called this week), could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" and is really de trop in such polite company as the SDMB. (a-hem)

Oh? How do you figure?

[supervenusfreak]

Oh? How do you figure?

Mutual respect. Eve asked very nicely, and I concur.

[DocCathode]

Oh? How do you figure?


How does she figure what?

That tr*nny is up there with n*gg*r and c*nt?

Although that's been my overwhelming experience, I have no idea what I would use as a cite. I don't think Websters covers this.

That tr*nny is not appropriate for the SDMB?

All hate speech is forbidden on the SDMB. the stunning sodomites of the Straight Dope (and their straight sidekicks) were told to stop using the word f*gg*t so much because other people might be hurt by it, or see it and think hate speech was acceptable.

[supervenusfreak]

All hate speech is forbidden on the SDMB. the stunning sodomites of the Straight Dope (and their straight sidekicks) were told to stop using the word f*gg*t so much because other people might be hurt by it, or see it and think hate speech was acceptable.

ergo "Gaylien" :D . Hugs from here Doc!

[Ensign Edison]

How does she figure what?

That tr*nny is up there with n*gg*r and c*nt?

Although that's been my overwhelming experience, I have no idea what I would use as a cite. I don't think Websters covers this.

That tr*nny is not appropriate for the SDMB?

All hate speech is forbidden on the SDMB. the stunning sodomites of the Straight Dope (and their straight sidekicks) were told to stop using the word f*gg*t so much because other people might be hurt by it, or see it and think hate speech was acceptable.

Do you believe my use of the word in this case falls under the heading of "hate speech"? Is it forbidden to ever use the word 'faggot' or 'nigger' in an ironic sense? Or is it just something we are not to do often? Of course I will defer to Eve and others who just don't want to see it at all, but I am curious what the Official Word is now that you say there has been one.

[DocCathode]

Do you believe my use of the word in this case falls under the heading of "hate speech"?

Nah.

Is it forbidden to ever use the word 'faggot' or 'nigger' in an ironic sense? Or is it just something we are not to do often?

In general, these words should be used carefully. On the boards, there is an official policy, and the mods and admins decide the specifics.

Of course I will defer to Eve and others who just don't want to see it at all,

It isn't that I don't want to see it at all. But, there is a real risk of people seeing it used, thinking it's acceptable, and reusing it. An old friend might call me a kike, as a term of affection. What happens if their child overhears this and thinks that this is an acceptable synonym for Jew? What happens if a somebody reads tr*nny here?

but I am curious what the Official Word is now that you say there has been one.

I am not a mod, nor an admin. I have no official standing. The official SDMB policy does include a ban on hatespeech.

[Miller]

:eek: I always figured it was a bit crass – after all, it's a car part. You don't go around calling people "driveshafts" or "crankcases"*. But an outright slur...I guess every group has to agree on at least one.


Shut up, you fuel injection system!

[Antinor01]

How does she figure what?

That tr*nny is up there with n*gg*r and c*nt?

Although that's been my overwhelming experience, I have no idea what I would use as a cite. I don't think Websters covers this.

That tr*nny is not appropriate for the SDMB?

All hate speech is forbidden on the SDMB. the stunning sodomites of the Straight Dope (and their straight sidekicks) were told to stop using the word f*gg*t so much because other people might be hurt by it, or see it and think hate speech was acceptable.


Straight sidekick, is that the new term for a fag hag?

Cause I wouldn't mind being a stunning sodomite running around with a straight sidekick. We could have tshirts and everything SS and the SS's......hmm

[gigi]

:eek: I always figured it was a bit crass – after all, it's a car part. You don't go around calling people "driveshafts" or "crankcases"*. But an outright slur...I guess every group has to agree on at least one.

*As opposed to "crank cases," who are all over the damn place.
And "pull up to my bumper, baby"!

[pravnik]

Shut up, you fuel injection system!Oh yeah? Well, get blown & injected, and go throw a rod!

[Guinastasia]

you want Pete Burns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Burns).


No you don't. You really, really don't.

Damn, that man is scary. One of these days, his lips are going to explode.

[kimera]

On the SDMB, I assume that any poster using the term is unaware of its conotation.


Yeah, I hang out with a bunch of transsexuals and they use the term tranny all the time as shorthand. I know some who object to it because of its associations with transvestites, but I've never heard anyone who says it's on the same level as niggar. I will try to avoid it, but I'm just so used to saying it because of chatting with them. :o

As for Alexis Arquette... she's hardly the representative I'd want.

[lissener]

And "pull up to my bumper, baby"!Dude! I was just listening to Grace today!

[Ensign Edison]

As for Alexis Arquette... she's hardly the representative I'd want.

Yeah, but we didn't elect her, you know? She's just a person. Who has found her niche and is working it just as hard as she can, sure, but everybody needs a job. Her family is famous, so she's famous whether she wants to be or not, especially as a transwoman. She chooses to be visible, and frankly that's never bad, in my opinion. And she's fierce; I don't think it's an act, and if it is an act and she does it all the time, is it an act? Whatever, you know, I just take people how they present themselves. It's simpler.

She might teach a few people something. She might make others think 'Oh, that's what they're like', sure. But it's a mistake, I think, to try to win allies by being perfect and inoffensive. Queer people have a right to make drunken asses of themselves on cable TV too.

[Ensign Edison]

Just wanted to add, kimera, that I didn't mean to suggest you were saying otherwise. Your post just made me think of my own inner debate about the subject.

[roger thornhill]

While we're defining things, could we please cool it with "tranny?" It's up there with "nigger" and "cunt" and is really de trop in such polite company as the SDMB.I like cunt. It caused rabbit to be adopted as the English word for, well, a furry thing with big ears that tastes like chicken if you boil it long wnough and remove all the bones. And it caused earl to be used in our peerage instead of count. "Earl and Countess Spencer" - has a certain ring to it, you know. And, I just like cunt. Period.

Perhaps, "full stop" would be more appropriate here.

[C K Dexter Haven]

First, Official Moderator Comment:
In Cafe Society, we don't prohibit the use of a word merely as a word, it depends entirely on context. "Mark Twain's has Huck call Jim a 'nigger' to define Huck's character." is an appropriate use of a term which might otherwise be offensive. So, context is what determines hate speech, not just a word.

We want polite discussion, but that doesn't mean that we censor the use of words. We mean by "polite" that we do no insult each other, we do not mean that our language must be G-rated or Grandmother-approved.

My personal feeling (not speaking as Moderator): A few words have a centuries-old history of being used in a derogatory way to de-humanize a group: nigger, kike, wop, and the like fall into that category. The question of when a term is so insulting as to be derogatory and excluded from polite conversation is not clear. Not all terms for a group of people are derogatory, and just because a word is abbreviated doesn't mean it's comparably insulting to "nigger." Where do we draw the line? Limeys for Brits? Brits for UK-subjects? Yank for Yankees? Yankees for Americans? Americans for US-citizens-and-permanent residents? How about "geek" and "nerd"? In short, saying that a term is equivalent to "nigger" is like playing the Nazi-card: jumps to the extreme and tries to compare molehills to mountains.

[DocCathode]

We mean by "polite" that we do no insult each other, we do not mean that our language must be G-rated or Grandmother-approved.

The asterisks are due to my stereotypical Jewish neuroses, not board policy.

My personal feeling (not speaking as Moderator): A few words have a centuries-old history of being used in a derogatory way to de-humanize a group: nigger, kike, wop, and the like fall into that category.

When was transsexualism first recognized? When did it enter the public consciousness? There aren't centuries old derogatory terms for it, because it didn't exist as a concept until the twentieth century.

Not all terms for a group of people are derogatory, and just because a word is abbreviated doesn't mean it's comparably insulting to "nigger."
What about Paki? Or Heeb?

It isn't the abbreviation that makes tranny so hateful. It's the history. Tranny is a word you yell while beating Gwen Arujo to death. Tranny (along with she male) is the word that the porn industry, and Jerry Springer, use to identify those sick freaks who are chicks with dicks and not deserving of human dignity.

In short, saying that a term is equivalent to "nigger" is like playing the Nazi-card: jumps to the extreme and tries to compare molehills to mountains.

Wrong. Tranny is a derogatory term used to express hatred, disgust, and superiority, often as a prelude to violence. Saying that tranny is equivalent to nigger is like saying kike or spic is equivalent to nigger. It is the truth.

If a person uses the word without realizing its significance, then a gentle correction is called for. But to say maintain that the word is no big deal is an example of the very ignorance we are supposed to be fighting.

[Ensign Edison]

The Doc is right -- tranny is absolutely a word with a hateful history. I do not think that in comparing it to 'nigger' and 'cunt', Eve meant to say that its impact is identical, but merely to put it in a category of 'reclaimed words we nevertheless shouldn't throw around casually'.

[Eve]

Eve meant to say that its impact is identical, but merely to put it in a category of 'reclaimed words we nevertheless shouldn't throw around casually'.

Bingo. And I must stress that I don't think anyone in this thread was being remotely offensive.

[kimera]

Wrong. Tranny is a derogatory term used to express hatred, disgust, and superiority, often as a prelude to violence. Saying that tranny is equivalent to nigger is like saying kike or spic is equivalent to nigger. It is the truth.

Woah, when did this happen? As I said before, I hang out with a lot of transgendered people (mostly transsexuals) and a lot of them use that term themselves. I asked in two of the transsexual IRC channels I hang in about this and none of them said it was on the same level as nigger. The main objection to it as expressed by many of them is that they don't want to be associated with transvestites. As you examine websites which use the term tranny, most of them seem to be generic to transgendered issues rather than transsexual issues. I can understand not wanting it to be used because transsexuals don't want to be associated with crossdressers/transvestites, but I think it is wrong of you to say that it is equivalent to nigger, especially when a lot of the community members don't think so and use the term themselves. And I don't mean as a reclaimed word, but in the fact that they don't see how it could be offensive other than with the transvestite connection.

In the UK, tranny is used to refer to transvestites while transy refers to transsexuals.

Groups (http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/tranny.html) which (http://www.trannyfest.com/) use (http://www.trannyweb.com/) the (http://www.zyra.org.uk/tranny.htm) word (http://www.tgfolk.net/sites/gtg/) tranny (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0952688069/104-6038856-3027121?v=glance&n=283155).

[FoxxyZoe]

"Tranny" doesn't bother me. Perhaps there is some jocularity to it with the diminutive suffix but nothing as significant as the N-word or any other racial epithet. Maybe it's like "Queer" or "Dyke" where some people see it as derogatory whereas others use it without a negative meaning (both terms have mostly lost their "edge"). "Faggot" is one that a lot of gay guys throw around but is not as publically acceptable as is the counterpart "Dyke". "Tranny' is pretty accepted among trans folk though.

"Shemale" is a bit crass but I like "tgirl" -- simple and still provocative.

[Antinor01]

"Tranny" doesn't bother me. Perhaps there is some jocularity to it with the diminutive suffix but nothing as significant as the N-word or any other racial epithet. Maybe it's like "Queer" or "Dyke" where some people see it as derogatory whereas others use it without a negative meaning (both terms have mostly lost their "edge"). "Faggot" is one that a lot of gay guys throw around but is not as publically acceptable as is the counterpart "Dyke". "Tranny' is pretty accepted among trans folk though.

"Shemale" is a bit crass but I like "tgirl" -- simple and still provocative.

Heh, I call my boyfriend a faggot sometimes....and this is probably bad but I usually do mean it in a bad way. Like when he's doing something that is way over the top stereotypical, I'll tell him to stop being such a faggot. I know, I'm a horrible gay man and should be shunned. (if it redeems me at all, I don't do it very often)

[kimera]

In the UK, tranny is used to refer to transvestites while transy refers to transsexuals.

Chimpy said that he had never heard this and I did a google search and couldn't find anything either. My UK ts friend must've been mistaken, or it's only used in small circles.

"Shemale" is a bit crass

Although I do know some girls who identify or have identified as such, I think overall it is a negative term and I don't use it except with close friends.

[DocCathode]

Woah, when did this happen?

This thread is the first time I've heard anybody say otherwise.
As I said before, I hang out with a lot of transgendered people (mostly transsexuals) and a lot of them use that term themselves. I asked in two of the transsexual IRC channels I hang in about this and none of them said it was on the same level as nigger.

All the transsexuals I've known said that it was on the same level as nigger.

but I think it is wrong of you to say that it is equivalent to nigger, especially when a lot of the community members don't think so and use the term themselves.

Just what percentage have to agree that it is offensive before the motion is passed?

[levdrakon]

Woah, when did this happen?

I understand your confusion. To me as an American, the word doesn't even exist. I only heard it every so often over the last couple years, and it's always been an Australian or UK TV show I heard it on. They seem to use it very casually in a diminutive way. The same way you'd refer to someone named Robert as "Bobby."

That it is now suddenly considered right up there in the "offensive" category is a surprise to me. I'm still not clear why it's offensive though. Because they use it on Jerry Springer? I'd be offended if they used my name in any form on Jerry Springer, but so what? I hate Jerry Springer. He certainly doesn't color my social or cultural mores.

[Ensign Edison]

I understand your confusion. To me as an American, the word doesn't even exist. I only heard it every so often over the last couple years, and it's always been an Australian or UK TV show I heard it on. They seem to use it very casually in a diminutive way. The same way you'd refer to someone named Robert as "Bobby."

That it is now suddenly considered right up there in the "offensive" category is a surprise to me. I'm still not clear why it's offensive though. Because they use it on Jerry Springer? I'd be offended if they used my name in any form on Jerry Springer, but so what? I hate Jerry Springer. He certainly doesn't color my social or cultural mores.

I really don't understand what your debate is here. When someone asks you not to do something they find offensive, do you usually argue with them and demand they substantiate its offensiveness? We're not lying to you, you know. The word "tranny" is associated with the fetishization and dehumanization of transpeople whether you've ever encountered it or not. Not exclusively, but historically. It offends some people. Why do you need to be convinced that this is true?

[singular1]

I'd like to drag this discussion back to the show for a second. Are we sure Alexis is really going to do this, or is it a stunt? I would've thought she would have already started the preliminaries, but from what I could see, she's not taking any hormones - no softening of the face, visible stubble, no budding breasts, and an apparently fully-functioning penis she seems quite anxious to share with the Playmate. Wouldn't someone who is serious about becoming transgendered have already begun these treatments and show the beginnings of the resultant traits? I'm not familiar with her history, but it seemed to this admitted uneducated viewer that so far, it's all talk.
Feel free to prove me completely wrong - I'm really curious about this, not trying to fling accusations at her.

[Ensign Edison]

I'd like to drag this discussion back to the show for a second. Are we sure Alexis is really going to do this, or is it a stunt? I would've thought she would have already started the preliminaries, but from what I could see, she's not taking any hormones - no softening of the face, visible stubble, no budding breasts, and an apparently fully-functioning penis she seems quite anxious to share with the Playmate. Wouldn't someone who is serious about becoming transgendered have already begun these treatments and show the beginnings of the resultant traits? I'm not familiar with her history, but it seemed to this admitted uneducated viewer that so far, it's all talk.
Feel free to prove me completely wrong - I'm really curious about this, not trying to fling accusations at her.

It's not a stunt, and I completely believe you don't mean to offend. If you heard her speak about it, however, you would understand it would be offensive to suggest it's a "stunt". She states that she is a transwoman. She states that she will have surgery, and I don't know what you mean about her yet-uncorrected male traits, because I haven't noticed them, or looked for them. Some trans people choose to transition without hormones or surgery, and they have every right to without being accused of "faking" it. Again, I know you're not doing this, I'm just giving you the information.

She lives as a woman, identifies as a woman, presents to the best of her ability as a woman, and has every right to be accepted as a woman, though it will be a long time before many people can do so, sadly.

[Indygrrl]

She lives as a woman, identifies as a woman, presents to the best of her ability as a woman, and has every right to be accepted as a woman, though it will be a long time before many people can do so, sadly.

'Cept for when she wants to give the Playboy chick a piece of her meat. Sorry, but it's really hard to take this person seriously. She's like a bad Jerry Springer guest.

I don't care what she does with her body, but I'm not going to tiptoe around and try to be PC when discussing her. Whether she's a male or female, transexual or transvestite, she's a tacky attention seeking bitch who has invited speculation as to her sexual status. Don't be so shocked when the average person has a hard time with the pronouns.

[levdrakon]

I don't care what she does with her body, but I'm not going to tiptoe around and try to be PC when discussing her. Whether she's a male or female, transexual or transvestite, she's a tacky attention seeking bitch who has invited speculation as to her sexual status. Don't be so shocked when the average person has a hard time with the pronouns.

Yeah, in the Gay community he's been known for awhile as a drag queen. Now she's "changed her mind" and is a trans-something reality show fame-whore, but we're supposed to bend over backwards respecting her various "guess what I am today" kaleidoscopic image changes. Or something.

[Ensign Edison]

Frankly, this thread has become so hateful, I would like to request it be closed now.

[SkipMagic]

Closed at the request of the OP.