Egg Creams

As a native New Yorker, I always look foward to getting back to that great city for tons of reasons. But one of the biggest reasons are Egg Creams, specifically the Chocolate variety!

What is an Egg Cream? Well, non-New Yorker, you take a bit of chocolate syrup (I always liked Bosco's), pour in some ice-cold milk, and stir in seltzer water. Much yummier than it sounds, trust me...

So I have three questions for this one topic:

1) What is the story on the creation of the Egg Cream? I've heard Brooklyn and Manhattan as place of origin, and various dates of creation from the turn of the centiry to the Depression.

2) How did it get the name Egg Cream when it is devoid of eggs?

Hypothesis: The head on it made it look like an egg might be in it, and calling it that meant they could charge an extra nickel for it back in the day...

3) Why didn't this wonderful beverage emmigrate from New York city like other great culinary trends from the Big Apple? I can't get an Egg Cream anywhere outside of New York. And though I can tell someone how to make it, it's never the same...

PS - Best Egg cream for my money is at Magazine store right on the corner of St. Marks and 2nd Avenue in the heart of the East Village!

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com (http://www.cmcinternational.com)

ICQ 35294890
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Accoding to food writers Jane and Michael Stern, Egg Creams were named so because they are "rich as eggs." I've never had one, but they sound good -- a little chocolate syrup never hurt nothin'.

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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

A couple of similar drinks you may be interested in trying:

1. In large areas of Canada and parts of the midwest, they have the brown cow - half milk, half cola tastes somewhere between an egg cream and a ice cream float

2. At any decent vietnamese restaurant (and some restaurants of other southeast asian cuisines), you can get a drink that actually has egg yolk - egg yolk, club soda and condensed milk. This is really worth trying for you egg cream fans.

Egg creams; NYC
Pizza; Chicago
Sourdough bread; San Francisco
Buffalo wings; Buffalo
Fish tacos; San Diego
Cheese steak sandwitches; Philly
Hot dogs; NYC, again (Nathan's)
Del Taco; Los Angeles :)
And on, and on.
Some treats are better in their hometowns.
I'm starving.
Peace,
mangeorge

I thought egg cream was just east coast vernacular for a soda. Well, not like sodapop, but like a 1950s' ice cream store soda. I bet you could still get them out here in retro places.

BTW, you can get reasonably good fish tacos here in San Diego, but they are just pale copies of the real ones from San Filipi, Mexico.

BTW, you can get reasonably good fish tacos here in San Diego, but they are just pale copies of the real ones from San Filipi, Mexico.


Urk. What is a fish taco, is it actually a taco with fish in it? If I take a Taco-Bell taco and slap a halibut in it, is that basically the same thing?

BTW, you can get reasonably good fish tacos here in San Diego, but they are just pale copies of the real ones from San Filipi, Mexico.
---Greg Charles
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Do you think they'll Fed Ex me a couple? :)
Peace,
mangeorge
Sig?
Checking for copyrights ;)

I'm east coast (Washington, D. C.), and it sounds like what we call ice cream sodas. As I understand it, the term "egg cream" is strictly a NY name. Different regions may have different names for the same thing - I call a soda (Pepsi, etc.) a soda, but midwesterners call it pop.

"I'm east coast (Washington, D. C.), and it sounds like what we call ice cream sodas. As I understand it, the term "egg cream" is strictly a NY name. Different regions may have different names for the same thing - I call a soda (Pepsi, etc.) a soda, but midwesterners call it pop."
---Sycorax
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Definately not the same.
Peace,
mangeorge

Never thought about it before but.....
I really am surprised that the egg cream hasn't become a part of the bagel explosion.
You have just caused me to ask a question at our local kosher deli. It will be worded something like this: "If you can serve me Dr. Browns, can you serve me an egg cream?"
I think Fox's chocolate syrup would be proper.

I can get egg creams at two places here in Cleveland: Max's Deli in Rocky River and Tommy's Restaurant in Coventry. And I often do! :)

you can get them at Zingerman's Deli in Ann Arbor MI.

God bless Zingerman's says this displaced Brooklyn gal.
-rmariamp

Okay, so there are some transplanted New Yorkers who make 'em. I wish some of them lived my way!

But what I mean is that, you get tons of non-New Yorkers who claim to own a "NY Style Pizza" place (it usually sucks) and anyone can make a bagel it seems (don't know if they were invented in NYC, but I can say they at least were perfected there).

But only a native knows about Egg Creams. An important distinction...

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com (http://www.cmcinternational.com)

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

An egg cream isn't just a regional name for ice-cream soda. It is essentially an ice-cream soda without ice-cream. Syrup, milk and seltzer, according to the recipe in _Square Meals_ by Jane and Michael Stern. As I said before, I've never had one, or seen one on a menu in any of the states I've visited (except New York, where I didn't have one -- at that time I wasn't familiar with the name and assumed raw eggs {shiver}. I've always been sorry for the missed chance).

Now, fish tacos, I know! Corn tortilla, fried fish, shredded cabbage in lieu of lettuce, a spicy white sauce and a squeeze of lime. Yum! We had some people visit from Wisconsin recently -- they were profoundly grossed out by the whole concept. I had to shame them into trying it by pointing out that I tried bratwurst while in Wisconsin. They were converts from the first bite. I think they had fish tacos every day of their visit after that! And, they went home with my knock-off recipe for Rubio's style fish tacos!


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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

I've only been to New York on the occasional weekend, but I can state for certain that an egg cream is NOT an ice cream soda. I only had one of the bottled variety (loved it, BTW) but it's nothing like yer standard float. I actually thought it had egg in it from the taste and consistency. It *is* rich! and damn yummy to boot :)

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Cave Diem! Carpe Canem!

Check out this site:
http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/index-type.asp#egg

It list two reviews of bottled Egg Creams. Unfortunately you can't order them on-line but they do give the name and number of the manufacturers.

Does anybody out there want to call them and see what they say on why an Egg Cream is called an Egg Cream?

Naw, if I wanted to know, I would just visit www.ask.com and ask 'what is an egg cream?'

It's my understanding that, in Boston, a "milkshake" is just that: milk, with chocolate or whatever added, but NO ice cream. To get what the rest of the country calls a milkshake -- milk and ice cream -- you have to order a "frappe."

There's a diner in Chicago (Harlem just north of Touhy) that has, on its sign, "milkshakes" and "Boston milkshakes." Until I explained the above to my friends, this had been the butt of endless jokes because they (and myself until I knew better) thought it was a redundancy in the sign and thus open to ridicule.

Satan: re bagels, I live in California and I don't know what the hell these things are they try to pass off as bagels here. And if you have to eat one of them, you have to tell the person you're getting it from not to toast it, otherwise you end up with a crunchy bagel, which is so not the point.

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Never regret what seemed like a good idea at the time.

It's my understanding that, in Boston, a "milkshake" is just that: milk, with chocolate or whatever added, but NO ice cream. To get what the rest of the country calls a milkshake -- milk and ice cream -- you have to order a "frappe."

This is also true in Rhode Island -- except the familiar milk and ice cream concoction is called a "cabinet" instead of a "frappe." When I was stationed in Newport there was a restaurant that I think was called the Colonial Cafe (this was 15 years ago, so I may be remembering the name wrong) that had the most sublime foot-long hotdogs. Grilled and served on spilt buns that were spread with butter and grilled like grilled cheese sandwiches before the dog was stuck in it. They made a sandwich called a "beefburger club" that was fabulous, too. {sigh} With an order of fries (made from fresh cut potatoes and a vanilla cabinet....

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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

"Seek and you shall find..."

Thanks to the link above to the Egg Cream reviews page (Thanks Thirsty4; appropriate name!), I was able to answer all of my own questions from Jeff, the person who in 1991 first managed to bottle an Egg Cream after seven years of trying (carbonating dairy products is not easy).

A Russian Egg Cream that goes back a long time actually did have real eggs in it, according to Jeff. It also featured such oddball flavors as pomegranate and cantaloupe! Sounds mighty refreshing...

The Original New York Egg Cream was (legend has it) invented by one Louis Auster, a Bronx native who had a soda shop in Manhattan at 2nd Avenue and 6th Street (only two blocks away from my own Egg Cream Mecca, ironically enough) where it was invented. The original recipe (which is, depending on whom you ask, either lost in the mists of beverage antiquity or in the possession of his son who is still alive) called for syrup that included the dairy already in it!

Apparently I was somewhat correct that the Egg Cream got its name because the head was reminiscent of beaten egg whites.

Through the decades, the boroughs developed their own syrup choices. Brooklyn wanted Fox's U-Bet, whereas the Bronx preferred Blossom, and Manhattan enjoyed Jay syrup in its Egg Creams. There were others as well... Jeff's bottled version was loosely based on Fox's.

Jeff surmises that the lack of popularity of Egg creams in other parts of the country stems from the fact that it could not easily be bottled. "You could ship a bagel," said Jeff. "You couldn't ship an egg cream."

He also points out that Egg Creams are harder to come by even in New York as there are fewer soda shops that will make a drink for you these days, and "Generation X seems to have forgotten about Egg Creams," he notes somewhat wistfully. It has gotten notoriety through mentions in West Side Story and Seinfeld.

I lived in NYC when he had his press blitz about being the first to bottle the Egg Cream. I tried one at the time and it was pretty good. Not as good as the real soda fountain variety, but certainly plenty good enough!

He also said that he would sell and ship his Egg Creams by the case, an offer I am writing the check for right now!

For $37 (which includes shipping in the continental US) you can get a case of the stuff. Jeff said he'd even mix and match flavors by 6-packs. Though I suggest the Chocolate, he also offers Diet Chocolate and Vanilla.

Make checks payable to:

B.I.G. Company
1592 North Jerusalem Road
Merrick, NY 11566
Attn: Natalie

Phone 516-505-5927 for further information.

Wow! I went from just one of the Teeming Millions to someone who can answer questions! Now I just have to move beyond being able to answer only my own questions...

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com (http://www.cmcinternational.com)

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

"New York style" Pizza???? you should be beaten. Everyone on Gods green earth knows that there is no pizza that should even carry the name as such outside of Chicago. If you have not eaten Giordano's (http://www.giordanos.com/) you've never had a pizza, and if you wish to experience it for yourself the link has a Frozen delivery service, although i suspect that its not quite the same as coming piping hot out of a brick wood burning oven.
http://www.giordanos.com/pizz50.jpg Doesn't this make your mouth water!!!

And mangeorge, you should be ashamed about the Hot Dog statement. everyone know that the Classic Vienna Beef hot dog ('http://www.viennabeef.com/recipe1.htm") is a Chicago Classic, the link is to the one and only recipe for the dog.
http://www.viennabeef.com/images/dogpack.gif Doesn't get much better than this.

Don't get me started on the Eli's Cheesecake.

Chicago pizza is great if you're into eating a lot of bread...

Lucky, when you respond to this (and I know you will) put it in the Flame section... :-)

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Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
www.cmcinternational.com (http://www.cmcinternational.com)

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

In the Boston area, "milkshake" means, basically, "milk which has been shaken, generally with some kind of flavoring". If you want ice cream also, you usually have to explicitly specify that in some way.

The milk/icecream/syrup drink in Boston is pronounced "frap" (rhymes with "trap"). In the midwest I had had frappes (pronounced "frappays"), but they were something different, more along the lines of daquiris without the alcohol.

I've never had an egg cream, but they sound vaguely like what I know of as an Italian soda (syrup, seltzer, and whipped cream).

And mangeorge, you should be ashamed about the Hot Dog statement. everyone know that the Classic Vienna Beef hot dog is a Chicago Classic, the link is to the one and only recipe for the dog.
---Omniscient
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No, Omniscent, on this one you're wrong.
You New Yorkers help me out here. It's been a lot of years, But I still remember a chili dog that topped any i'd ever eaten.
They used a true hot dog (with casing) and smothered it with a peppery chili sauce made of ground beef and spices. No tomato sauce IIRC, and it was kinda loose and juicy. Damn, I'm hungry.
So good, it would make even Omniscent cry.
Peace,
mangeorge

In Norfolk, VA there is an old (been around since the '40s, I believe) hot dog stand named "Tonys." The dogs have the natural casings that snap when you bit 'em. Onions, mustard and WONDERFUL chili. No ketchup, though -- Tony didn't believe in ketchup on hot dogs... We're going back to Virginia next year, and I'm going to go directly to Tonys for lunch!

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Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity

I've been a New Yorker for the past 17 years, but grew up in the Cleveland area.

The same Jane & Michael Stern volume we've been quoting also refers to the "phosphate," which they indentify as a beverage indigenous to the Chicago/Detroit/Cleveland/Pitsburgh geographical swath. Like an egg cream without the milk, they state.

I vaguely remember ordering these in Cleveland diners back in the 1960s, particularly strawberry ones. Anyone else remember them? Were they just fountain-mixed soda pop? (Chocolate was another available choice...yuck.)

Hey! Nobaody's gonna answer my "phosphate" question? Don't make me start a new thread, folks...

re: Pizza. Chicago and New York pizzas are so different that I believe that should be called by separate names...NY-style is closer to the original Naples pizza, so it gets to keep the name. As for Chicago-style, it's thick, but it ain't all bread.

re: hot dogs. I'd have to agree that all of hot dog evolution is straining toward the chili dog, the highest level of frankfurterdom. Fully-loaded Chicago franks are damn good, though.

Ike, yep, that pretty much covers a phosphate--soda water and syrup. I get chocolate phosphates a lot when I go to Tommy's Restaurant in Coventry (best vegetarian menu anywhere, btw).

OK, the wise-ass answer to the question "If there's no egg or cream in it, why is it called an egg cream?"

"What are they supposed to call it? No-egg-no-cream?"

I've heard this answer from both Neil Sedaka, an orginal New York bocher, and Rob Reiner, son of an original New York bocher. I think I recall hearing Mel Brooks, The Original NY Bocher, say it as well. Works for me.

As for hot dogs, I've never eaten a Chicago dog, but for my money, Nathan's original, from Coney Island, is the tops. Remember, it's not the stuff you pile on the dog that makes it, it's the base on which you pile. The juicy snap of a well-grilled Nathan's Famous and the scrumptious seasonings therein allow it to stand alone or act as a worthy foundation to chili, cheese, kraut, onions, whatever your fancy.

As for pizza, tastes vary according to crust thickness, sweetness of sauce, etc. I'm willing to call it a draw between NYC and Chicago, since much of it is subjective. The photo of the pizza did look scrumptious, though. A little deep-dish for my tastes, as I prefer a thinner, crispier crust.

Nosh on!


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The Dave-Guy
"since my daughter's only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?" J.H. Marx