I need some advice on how to deal with my self-centered sister

[Cat Whisperer]

I am having a few issues with my younger sister (I'm nearly 40, and she's 35). She is a great person, but she has a few quirks that I'm finding hard to take these days. She talks *a lot* - she dominates any conversation going on around her, whether she knows anything about the subjects or not. She doesn't listen at all - she spends her time while you're talking thinking about what she wants to say next and waiting for you to take a breath so she can take over the conversation again.

The one that's really getting to me, though, is that she says untrue things about people. She doesn't lie, per se, but she gets ideas in her head (which aren't particularly accurate because she wasn't listening) and represents them as facts that may or not be true. Usually they are small items, like saying somebody loves some kind of food when in fact they hate it. When she says untrue things about me, I tend to defend myself and tell her that whatever isn't true, but it feels petty to me to be making any kind of deal about these things, but I'm also not comfortable just leaving these untruths unchallenged. Oh yeah, she's defensive and argumentative as well, so when I challenge her misperceptions, the argument is on.

I don't know what to do about this combination of mildly unpleasant traits. I know I can't change her, but I can change how I react to her, but I'm really not sure what would be effective. She is a good person, but self-centered, and I come away from interactions with her feeling, I don't know - insignificant or something. Like my personal individuality was completely overlooked. Has anybody had any luck dealing with a self-centered personality like this? How do you describe the vague unpleasantness that you feel when dealing with someone like this? Why *is* this bugging me so much?

[Alice The Goon]

You could write her a letter, explaining to her how her behavior makes you feel. Keep it all about what your feelings are, and not blaming.

You could stage an intervention, whereupon several family members/friends confront her about her behavior, again explaining how it makes them feel, and encouraging her to do something about it.

You could, if currently receiving therapy, invite your sister to a session with you, having your counselor mediate.

You could just talk to her yourself. Invite her over alone with you, keep the lights dim and the atmosphere relaxing, and lovingly but firmly discuss with her what specifically bothers you and what your expectations from her are. Explain to her that you do love her and you do wish to have a strong, close relationship, but that you don't feel you can do that with the current situation. Enlist her help in thinking of things that you two can do together to resolve it. Praise her good qualities, there has to be something. Don't say anything she could use to justify becoming upset and screaming or walking out. Have her leave with good feelings about herself, you, and the situation between you. If you don't feel that you can do this with her successfully, you might be surprised at the seemingly insurmountable issues that a good talk between people who genuinely love each other can resolve.

Good luck. Refocusing someone who has become narcissitic and self-centered is probably incredibly difficult, once they have slid into it to a certain degree.

[Crafter_Man]

Yes, I have known quite a few people like this.

IMO there is no way to deal with them.

[twickster]

I don't know what to do about this combination of mildly unpleasant traits.

"Mildly unpleasant"? Yikes -- I'd call that an understatement.

I've got nothing to add to trublmakr's suggestions. As you say, there's nothing you can to do change her behavior, only your own -- and maybe it's as simple as spending less time with her. If she asks you why, you cn tell her.

[Kalhoun]

I suppose you could "dope" her and demand cites. I know I have developed opinions based on inaccurate info or assumptions (haven't we all?) and if someone calls you on it, or offers evidence to the contrary, it can change your opinon. There's nothing stopping you from defending your opinions based on your knowledge of a given subject. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but maybe she behaves that way because she hasn't been challenged forcefully enough.

When she says so-and-so doesn't eat broccoli, get so-and-so on the phone and ask them. Sometimes it takes a harder push to shake things out onto the table.

Or you could just say, "why bother?" and concentrate on her good points, which obviously she has. I guess it depends on how confrontational you're feeling on a given day.

[WOOKINPANUB]

I suppose you could "dope" her and demand cites. I know I have developed opinions based on inaccurate info or assumptions (haven't we all?) and if someone calls you on it, or offers evidence to the contrary, it can change your opinon. There's nothing stopping you from defending your opinions based on your knowledge of a given subject. Sometimes it's uncomfortable, but maybe she behaves that way because she hasn't been challenged forcefully enough.

When she says so-and-so doesn't eat broccoli, get so-and-so on the phone and ask them. Sometimes it takes a harder push to shake things out onto the table.

Or you could just say, "why bother?" and concentrate on her good points, which obviously she has. I guess it depends on how confrontational you're feeling on a given day.

Very good suggestions here.

How often do you see her? Does she live nearby, thus making it difficult to minimize the time you spend with her? Would you miss her if you spent less time together? Would she notice? I guess what I'm getting at is that since you know she's not likely to change, you get to decide if the aggravation outweighs the benefit of dealing with her. I'm not saying write her out of your life or anything, blood is blood and all that, but just cause you love her doesn't mean you have to like her.

If curtailing your interaction isn't an option, I strongly stand behind Kalhouns first suggestion. She sounds very manipulative and it's in your best interest to become much less malleable. Stand by what you know to be true, but try to make it lighthearted as possible.

In your very best Shirly Feeney voice...

" Pickled pig's feet? I don't like those, you silly goose! Whatever gave you that idea? "

"Hmmmm, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Grace Foster is not running away with the milkman "

"Aw, c'mon sis' let's not fight about it; I'm just sayin...."

[Cat Whisperer]

Good suggestions, all. Thanks. I guess this doesn't seem like *too* big a deal to us, because she's been like this since childhood, and she does have many great characteristics.

<snip>You could just talk to her yourself. Invite her over alone with you, keep the lights dim and the atmosphere relaxing, and lovingly but firmly discuss with her what specifically bothers you and what your expectations from her are. <snip>
I suppose part of that is figuring out what my expectations from her actually are. I guess I can ask her to do anything I want - and understand that she can then choose to listen or ignore me.

[Q.N. Jones]

It's bugging you because it's annoying. If she doesn't care about what you have to say, it's hard to have any kind of relationship.

Normally, I am very much in favor of confronting situations like this, and working them out--or, if they can't be worked out, letting the relationship dwindle or die. However, she's your sister. Also, this isn't just a minor annoyance; it's a deep-seated personality flaw.

I've tried to fight a similar battle. My dad and my three sisters are rage-aholics. When I tried to discuss the issue without anger, I got screamed at. I am pretty sure the response you will get is for her to refuse to listen and then go off about how much you are hurting her for saying such a thing. People rarely change, and rarely want to face the possibility that there's something seriously wrong with them.

So, I say, learn to ignore it. Just decide it's not going to bother you when she does that. Hell, learn to tune her out if it helps.

[Cat Whisperer]

It's bugging you because it's annoying. If she doesn't care about what you have to say, it's hard to have any kind of relationship.
<snip>
I'm starting to realize that.


So, I say, learn to ignore it. Just decide it's not going to bother you when she does that. Hell, learn to tune her out if it helps.I can do that. I have been doing a lot of work on personal growth in the last couple of years, and one of my areas that I'm working on is assertiveness. It is my inclination to not be confrontational, so I want to be sure that if I don't confront her, it's for the right reasons, not because I'm uncomfortable confronting her.

[Harriet the Spry]

You could be doing her a big favor if you help her develop more mature communication skills. She may not realize she's doing it. Also, constant talking can be a defense mechanism to keep control of the conversation, such as to keep it from going into painful territory.

I'd say start by getting a sense of whether she knows it is a problem, and doesn't care, or whether she doesn't realize it. A little denial and defensiveness is to be expected, but is she willing to get past it?

Listening skills can be learned and can be a real asset in many careers. If you can get her to recognize the problem, there are concrete things she can do to build the skills.

[Rigamarole]

Yep, I've had a mother exactly like that for... jeez, as long as I can remember.

You know the part you say about your personal indviduality being completely overlooked? That's exactly how I feel. And when it's your own mother, that's a tough feeling.

Anyway, let me know if you figure it out because I still haven't found an effective way to deal.

[Kalhoun]

I'll just add one more possibility...she may be doing this because she's insecure and it's the only way she knows how to mask that insecurity...by coming on like gangbusters.

[Purl little me]

The one that's really getting to me, though, is that she says untrue things about people. She doesn't lie, per se, but she gets ideas in her head (which aren't particularly accurate because she wasn't listening) and represents them as facts that may or not be true. Usually they are small items, like saying somebody loves some kind of food when in fact they hate it.
My sis-in-law does that, and some things she says over and over.
Like "Purl dyes her hair" No. I got rinse once when I was in highschool, and it faded out in a month. When I get angry at her, she says "A rinse is dying your hair". But refuses to admit that dying your hair once does not mean you dye your hair. The latter is in the present tense, which is false.
She also says I got a tattoo, when it was a henna "tattoo" which also washed out and I never did again. So then whoever she tells will ask me where it is and can they see it. No, I never got a real tattoo. And then they'll forget who told them and say to me "Well, a henna tattoo is not a real tattoo so you shouldn't pretend it is." Grrrr...

[ouryL]

Nothing.
Sorry!

[seenidog]

I have to agree with Harriet,



You could be doing her a big favor if you help her develop more mature communication skills. She may not realize she's doing it. Also, constant talking can be a defense mechanism to keep control of the conversation, such as to keep it from going into painful territory.

I'd say start by getting a sense of whether she knows it is a problem, and doesn't care, or whether she doesn't realize it. A little denial and defensiveness is to be expected, but is she willing to get past it?

I say this because I have tendencies to be the person you are talking about. I used to be really bad, but my wife got fed up and started giving me the elbow to the ribs, or the kick to the shins, (unnoticed by others). And when I later asked why the reply would be "Because you were being a jerk". Not a lot of ambiguity there. I still do it to a degree I suppose, and still get reminded from time to time.

I have learned it is unacceptable, but don't realize I am doing it. A reminder from the other half gets me back in line. It has been over twenty years now, and I can tell you I have a lot more friends, and have done better professionally because of her 'reminders"

I do not advocate physical abuse, but making the person aware of the issue is a start. I think the suggestions of many of the other posters on how to bring the issue to light with as little confrontation as possible have been excellent.

[Stainz]

Well I have to admit I have some of the same traits / habits as your sister, and honestly, if anyone has pointed them out to me in the past, it wouldn't have helped.

What HAS helped is maturity and becoming more happy with myself and my life, as well as a few counselling sessions.

As Kalhoun suggested, it really seems to stem from insecurity and unhappiness, at least in my case.

I don't know if there is anything you can do, except as you stated in the OP, change how you REACT. You KNOW what to expect from your dealings with her, so in your shoes I would spend my energy on acknowledging your own feelings and defusing them.

If you really feel that it would be beneficial to bring it up, perhaps next time you could be pro-active by saying "Sis, I feel like you weren't really listening when I was talking about my weekend, and that seems to happen a lot. It really hurts my feelings because I feel like you don't care about my life, you just want an audience for yours." You could gently and nicely "call her" on it each time she does it, but be prepared for defensiveness, denial and anger.

Good luck!

[elelle]

Having a Mom who is like that, and falling into sway with other women like that (hmmm, what do I have to learn here?), and not being of a confrontational nature, I've finally found that the gumption to say: "You know, I love you, but it really does bother me when you do this....(insert issue) I don't like it." goes a long way in opening up some talk.

It avoids the You Are this or thataway definitive, which causes defensiveness, and ensuing argument. By phrasing it in a "this affects me " manner, they react to your emotions, and not accusations, much less threatening. This type of personality is pretty insecure, hence the masking of telling untruth about others in order to bolster their fortress. I've found that being honest and saying "You know, this is how you affect me..." is amazing in simple effect. Shit, wish I knew that as a teen, much pain avoided to all parties involved.

Yep, and work on changing your reaction to it if all doesn't go well. I know from other threads here that you have an interest in meditation, featherlou. There are some techniques that focus on compassion; those have helped me a great deal in being able to release that sort of tension and gain perspective.

Diggin' in the dirt and planting always helps, too! :)

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Put me down for another doper with a mother exactly like that. I think I see a trend here.

It was tough dealing with mom when I was younger, and not so sure of myself. "you'll grow out of the rebellious phase" she'd tell me, and I sometimes I wanted to believe her. She was wrong, I wasn't going through any rebellious phase, she was the liar all along.

It was only in the last few years that I have come to grips with this, and exchanged notes with my father, with whom I've become much closer. My father being somewhat better "doper" material, I suppose.

I've been trying slowly, to explain to mom in painstaking detail what she is doing, and how it hurts the rest of the family. I use cites, I use reasoning, I try to be as non-confrontational as possible, in otherwise, the essence of a good SDMB thread.

Happily, I think she is slowly coming around. Now I can at least go out to dinner with mom and have a semi-pleasant three way conversation, without ever having to turn around to her and say, in a furious deadpan, "No, that's not true, mom, you're lying".

I'm glad I sat down with her and spent the effort, because it was getting to a point where I and my sister simply could not stand to talk to her and wouldn't for months on end. My sister still can't stand her, but we're making progress.

[Alice The Goon]

It's important to use statements that include "When you ____, I feel ____." And no, "When you act like an asshole, I feel like kicking your ass" doesn't work. :p

[Cat Whisperer]

<snip> And no, "When you act like an asshole, I feel like kicking your ass" doesn't work. :p
Are you sure? Cause that's kinda what I'd like to say. That, along with "Shut upShutUpSHUT UP!!!!!" (No Morocco.)

Agh, this is complicated. I think some of you have hit the nail on the head - I think at least part of this is coming from her own insecurities and her need to control and manipulate to make herself feel better. I also don't think she has any intention of making other people feel bad; she truly isn't a bad person. Just a clueless one. Maybe that's my job as an older sister; giving her a clue, even if she doesn't want one and won't like it.

[Q.N. Jones]

You could be doing her a big favor if you help her develop more mature communication skills.

I have no doubt this is true...if featherlou could get her sister to admit she has a problem. But, given how deeply ingrained her sister's self-centeredness is, and how is pervades so many aspects of her personality, her sister probably 1) won't see it, and 2) will be extremely angry at being told that practically everything she does hurts featherlou's feelings. I'm guessing that pointing this stuff out to Sis is 99% likely to end in tears.

Of course, it's all about weighing the options. If you just can't live with yourself unless you try to talk to Sis about this problem, go for it. But expect some serious backlash. Is it worth risking that? Only you can say.

Something else to think about: in some families, when one family member criticizes another, the rest circle the wagons to defend the one being "picked on." You might tick off more than just your sister. Factor that in.

[Stainz]

This behaviour is such a strong defense mechanism/habit that it may be impossible for your sister to recognize and accept.

Has she ever indicated to you that she wishes she had more friends, or that she wishes you and she had a closer relatonship, or that she can't figure out why she puts people off? Anything like that might open the door to a discussion.

Your bringing it up "out of the blue" will really catch her off guard and amplify (magnify? - I don't know it's 4 in the morning here) her reaction.

Would you consider distancing yourself from her for a short time, and writing her a letter explaining why? "Dear Sis, I love you and you are a great person, however I am having a hard time dealing with some of your behaviour. I leave our conversations feeling invisible and unimportant to you, and I am having a hard time dealing with that. So for now, as much as I will miss you, I would like to have some time apart so we can both think about how we interact and how what we say impacts the other."

I find with letters I can really think about what I want to say, and it also gives the other person a chance to re-read it as they cool off, rather than having a conversation that gets heated and most of it is remembered incorrectly.

Does your sister feel inferior to you? Are you more successful in her eyes? Does she feel she has to impress you and at the same time beat you down?

What is YOUR part in these conversations? Do you show her your vulnerability and insecurities? Just curious...

[Annie-Xmas]

I worked with someone like that. He would make the most outrageous statements, and could not stand to be called wrong. If he was caught in a bold-faced lie, he would say "Well, someone told me that." "Who?" "I don't remember."

People only change when they want to change. If you point out your sister's problem, her ego might convinced her that it's actually YOUR problem.

[Brynda]

She sounds pretty narcissistic. Having been raised by one (we should start a club!), I can tell you that they don't change easily. First of all, they don't want to change--they lack the empathy to see that they are hurting others, and are too insecure to admit that they need to change, and furthermore are too frightened to try it. Your only hope IMHO is to try to understand her and learn what to expect.

Not all narcissists fit the definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, but that might be a place to start understanding her:

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/narcissism/

[Ferret Herder]

I have a sister-in-law who's like this. She basically jumps to conclusions in the worst possible way and magnifies it. If you start saying "So at work the other day..." she has, honest-to-god, jumped in and said "Oh, is work bad for you?" and you just know if you don't quash that idea immediately, she'll be telling stories later about all the problems you're having at work. She's called us before with tales of how one of the sisters is just insulted that you didn't invite her to a party that this particular sister was invited to, but later on the other SIL looks at you like you're on crack when you try to smooth over the "problem" and insists quite honestly that she didn't even think twice about it.

She'd be a really cool SIL if she didn't do this. I think she feels insecure because she's not as mainstream and "professional" as some of her sisters; she's kind of bohemian and involved in the art scene, which I think is really cool, but she can't seem to see the merit no matter what. I just try to stamp out any misconceptions before they start, and fortunately her family members have caught on to her tendencies and tend to say "Well, you know how _____ is" after a "tall tale" is revealed, plus her stories are taken with a grain of salt.

[Zoe]

featherlou, brace yourself. The lies and distortions may get worse. They have for my sister. We used to argue over the facts. When she was proven wrong, she just clammed up. Then later she forgot that she had ever been wrong. Then we argued over how she would never admit that she had been wrong. It just got worse.

The times that made me the angriest was when she was the "authority" on my life and my friends lives -- and she had lived hundreds of miles away at that time.

She was always the hero of her own stories. Or she had some links to someone who had secret government information. Or she made outrageous claims about other family members to people who would have known better.

Any confrontation about her confusion ended in tears and her need for a hug.

She has the lowest self-esteem of anyone I've ever seen. It's so low that she doesn't know what real self-esteem is. I've been too close to her to see how mentally ill she is because her illness is different from mine.

Her only consolation in life is physical illness because that gets her attention from someone. So she is sick all of the time. It is heartbreaking. She is just killing herself. (We are both in our 60's.)

I don't think there is anything that I can do. I've resolved to love her back. We live far enough away that we don't see each other often, but we talk on the phone. I just go along with her on the little things and support her emotionally as best I can. I'd rather love her than be right.

[Cat Whisperer]

This behaviour is such a strong defense mechanism/habit that it may be impossible for your sister to recognize and accept.

Has she ever indicated to you that she wishes she had more friends, or that she wishes you and she had a closer relatonship, or that she can't figure out why she puts people off? Anything like that might open the door to a discussion
Your bringing it up "out of the blue" will really catch her off guard and amplify (magnify? - I don't know it's 4 in the morning here) her reaction. .
Good points. I don't think she has expressed any ideas like that. I don't think she realizes how annoying she can be at times.


Would you consider distancing yourself from her for a short time, and writing her a letter explaining why?
I would certainly consider it. It might be a good way to go, with someone who has a tendency to not listen and misremember.

Does your sister feel inferior to you? Are you more successful in her eyes? Does she feel she has to impress you and at the same time beat you down?

What is YOUR part in these conversations? Do you show her your vulnerability and insecurities? Just curious...More good points. I don't think she feels inferior to me, but I'm pretty sure that I'm fairly hard to get a reaction out of - she might feel like she needs to provoke me just to make sure that *I* care.

It wouldn't surprise me too much if the way I'm relating to her now is actually making the situation worse. It seems like that is how families tend to interact.

[Kiminy]

You pretty much described my mother to a "T". It's very hard to have a conversation with her because 1) she assumes you have all the background knowledge that she does about the gossip she is feeding you, and 2) everything that is happening to her is so extremely important that I am supposed to remember all of the details for when she calls me to tell me how a specific meeting or trip went. (To tell the truth, unless she sends me an e-mail with her itinerary and contact numbers, I don't know where she is from one day to the next, nor do I care. I've lived away from her for more than 25 years now, and we both have our own lives.)

Any conversation you have with her (IRL or on the phone) ends up with a story about what's she's done in a similar situation, or her interpretation of what happened.

She suffers from anxiety and depression, and is a recovering alcoholic. She has been to numerous therapy programs, and she is aware that she tends to turn conversations to herself. There was a very short time (4-6 months?) when she seemed to want to pay attention to other points of view, but she always had to explain at some point in the conversation that she was doing so because her therapist told her to. (which kind of negates the whole point....) Her fellow therapy group members even gave her the nickname of "chatty Patty", which they used as a shortcut to point out that she was trying to turn the conversation back to herself.

She also fails to understand that people change with time. As an example, when I was young, I could not stand peas, and could not eat them because their texture made me throw up. I now like peas, but she doesn't seem to understand that. When we visit, she generally avoids serving peas, but if she has to for some reason, she always has apologize for it, even though I have eaten them numerous times in her presence.

My solution: I ignore at least 75% of anything she says to me. If the information is really important *and* relevant to me (like if she announced that she had decided to move to the same state I live in!), I will remember it and be able to use it later. Otherwise, I forget it the minute I stop talking to her. Since she's done that to me for the last 30 years, I don't think I'm being particularly rude.