View Full Version : What Can Save Us?
08-23-1999, 02:56 AM
So many threads out here about what's wrong with us as humans. What can save us? IMHO it's education.
Educate people about differences, the world, views, thoughts. Give each child a full scope of the wonderful world of ideas and the delight in the differences among us. There is so much that makes us different but so much that brings us together. I love it all and am continually amazed that we are really not as different as we think!
If you just post here and say God without defining God I'm gonna hunt you down and slap you till you're silly. That's lame and easy. God as an undefined "thing" cannot save us. There are just too many ideas about God. Be specific. Be BREIF! Be honest. What can we do as humble humans to get along and make this a better place without the "interference" of God(s)? Don't site following your brand of religion. Site things that people can do.
The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.
08-23-1999, 04:31 AM
I think I'm pretty cynical, but I am probably a closet optimist at heart. I often wonder about what can save us. I wonder whether it will be a revolution of some sort, a fast movement with very quick changes, or a slow process were we just evolve into a better people.
Education is a big plus, but until we are willing to make sacrifices for a common good, to really understand 'no pain-no gain' we have a long way to go. Racism has to go. We are going to have to be even more innovative and take risks at problem solving.
The good news. America, the grand multi-cultural experiment, is far from a failure IMHO. Another country which such diversity would have likely been burned to the ground by now.
And since this is the Pit, let me see.......hhhmmmmm......a society that goes bug eyed over breast feeding in public has a long way to go in learning how to live together in peace. Nya-nya-nya-nya-nya-nyaaaaaaa.
08-23-1999, 07:18 AM
Education as it stands now is not enough. We must be taught HOW to think before we are taught WHAT to think. Thinking logically is a lost art, it seems, and without it pseudo-science, pop psychology, and "alternative"medicine rear their agly and expensive heads.
08-23-1999, 08:32 AM
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth, more than ruin, more even than death....Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, The Outline of History
Did I mention that I like quotations?
08-23-1999, 02:16 PM
I think perhaps we're too far gone, but if anything could save us, it would be this: kindness and patience.
I mean, why do we automatically consider it a personal attack if the guy at McDonalds gives us the wrong soda, or the foreign-born person waiting on us is slow to understand?
What's with the impatience and unkindness we throw around at each other on the road just because someone in front is going too slow. I know people who are proud of their children for being pushy and/or rude to others, "because that will help them later in life". Does teaching impatience help them get-ahead?
Is there any value left in being kind & forgiving of mistakes and even intended slights? Does that make us look weak? Will it hurt my children's self-esteem if I teach them to be nice to rude people?
(sorry, it looks like I've gotten carried away...maybe this should be it's own thread?)
08-23-1999, 02:27 PM
I don't know that I agree with the General Hypothesis. Is there something wrong with us? Have humans gotten worse in the last 100 years? 200 years?
I don't think so.
I agree that their is room for improvement, and that the most important thing, I wish everyone would do. Before doing something, try to see the world through the other person's eyes. Try to understand where they are coming from, then make your decision.
I guess its just a matter of semantics, but, I don't agree that we need to be "saved." Always room for improvement, of course, but I don't think we are in such dire straits that we need to have the calvary called in.
According to Pliny
08-23-1999, 03:54 PM
I'm with Pat on this one. If we are in need of being saved, it's from the kind of pessimism and self-hate that seems to be prevelant amoung the supposedly philosophical members of the human race.
I think the people alive today have handled the recent world population boom (and the accompanying strain on resorces) and the invention of weapons of mass-destruction far better than any previous generations could have. Add to this the fact that we've at least begun to eliminate class and racial barriers that were all that kept previous societies intact, it's clear that we're doing far better than anybody but the most wide-eyed utopian of past centuries could even imagine.
08-24-1999, 11:24 PM
Perhaps "save" was the wrong word. I'm not saying were all turds floating in the cesspool of life here, guys, I'm just saying there must more we could do to make this world a better place.
I still stand strongly for education (hell, I'll sit down for it too) but also agree with compassion, understanding and "walking a mile in the other man's shoes".
The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.
08-24-1999, 11:56 PM
I know that I'll take a beating for this, but if we humans implemented some base level of planetary socialism with free enterprise layered on top of that, we'd have a much better planet in which to live.
What I'm trying to get at is this:
All humans have free access to:
* Basic medical care
* Primary and secondary education
* food and clothing
Anything that you want beyond the basics must be earned through extraordinary effort.
We'd probably have to have a planet Earth government in place and the implementation of something like this would probably take decades, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.
08-25-1999, 05:56 PM
I don't think compassion is necessary, altough it would be nice, and the same with patience. Education is not the salve that many would have us believe, it just makes us smarter jerks. If you ask me its all about politeness.
The man at McDonalds gives you the wrong soda. "Excuse me Sir, I think this should have been a diet soda. Thanks"
You are driving to slow in the fast lane. "Oh my, I am probably slowing people down I should move over."
Compassion, patience, and education are nice but, plain old Manners would be the best.
One last rant...I talk to people on the phone all day. I would estimate that 50% of people don't say goodbye...they just hang up. Thats so rude, it only takes a quarter of a second to say goodbye...grrrrr
There is only one thing that can save us now!
WHERE ARE YOU WHEN WE REALLY NEED YOU?!?!?
08-26-1999, 12:28 AM
So, in other words, Connie, you're saying the world would be a much better place if every country were like Sweden?
I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.
09-09-1999, 03:46 PM
"We must love one another or die."
-from the poem "September 1, 1939" by W.H. Auden
09-09-1999, 05:04 PM
Nothing can save us
80% of the people have their heads up their ass and are clueless about things like common decency and consideration of others peoples wants and needs.
10% of the people are assholes a get off on it.
10% of the people care about their impact on others and behave accordingly.
09-09-1999, 08:43 PM
There is one thing that can save us: GOD! Just kidding, I figured that would get a rile out of Byzantine.
09-09-1999, 08:50 PM
Of others and ourselves.
This is the Pit, right?
09-10-1999, 08:11 AM
"Homer, I've got someone here I think can help you!"
"Is it Batman?"
"No, it's a scientist."
"Batman's a scientist. . ."
"It isn't Batman!"
09-10-1999, 10:39 AM
I'll take a stab at this one...and it completely disagrees with C#3!!
It is survival of the fittest...if you cant keep up, die off.All through time, Cultures that couldnt keep up have dissapeared.Trying to fight this only delays the inevitable, and drains time and resources from those areas that are more self-sufficient.
All these starving countries...spare me! Dont have more children than you can feed! Why keep breeding? If you live in a dirt hut, no food, rags to wear, revolution everywhere,drought,pestilence etc....DONT FUCK!!! you wont have any babies that you cant feed or care for...d'uh...(apparently simple condom use is too complicated)
Same as these f-ing chinese immigrabnts that keep showing up by the boatload on the coast of canada...why canada? Because the states would tow their dumb asses back to china and torpedo those rust buckets! We pay TONS of taxes to have good schools and medical care etc...these morons are gonna get deported, but not until they suck off the teats of our medical and social agencies, using MY tax dollars to pay for a lawyer to fight for them to stay when I dont want them here! Ironic--I think so!
This being said, I dont think they are dumb because they are chinese, but because they float across the ocean in tubs that shouldnt even be in the water. I have no problem with immigrants that go through the proper channels. But showing up on the shore and saying " I am here-adopt me!" is just fucking rude!
Just because we have our shit together why the hell should we carry the third world on our backs?
If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, and he will eat everyday....if they wont pick up the damn rod, stop giving them the fish!!!
I am done....Flame Away!:P
09-10-1999, 11:30 AM
Social Darwinism in 1999 . . . apparently nothing can save us.
kelli, I assume that when it turns out one of your children has some sort of congenital, life-threatening illness that can be passed on, you'll let it die rather than pass on bad genes, right? Survival of the fittest, right? If one of your kids is a genetic reject, don't you dare let it reproduce and dilute the gene pool.
And you're certainly a fine one to complain about other people and when they should and shouldn't have sex. Weren't you the one complaining elsewhere about how the various fathers of your various children aren't giving you money? Looks like you should've kept your legs shut, maybe, huh? Just because you have poor taste in men and can't figure out how condoms or pills work, or simply keep your knees together, too fuckin' bad. Deal with it.
Oh, and I bet those Chinese will take jobs to support themselves that you would never dream of taking because they're below you somehow.
09-10-1999, 03:01 PM
2) An effective system of justice
Education has been covered. I'll leave it be.
I believe that one of the biggest drains on society is the lack of a good, effective judicial system. It brings great shame to society as a whole that out judicial system is the way it is. Justice is fundamentally important to the maintenance of society.
I will add the following:
3) A moral code of conduct.
But I think 3) will naturally follow from 1) & 2).
Is this my first post to the Pit? I think so.
09-10-1999, 03:44 PM
Hey, I was just flaming like you asked me to! If you're going to expect me to back it up, well....pffff....hmph! (gets all blustery, stomps off)
(FTR, I think what C3 said was one of the smartest things he's said in any thread, and I agree with it 100%. Intraspecies cooperation does not threaten any individual's ability or opportunity to reproduce, which is ostensibly the goal of being alive; and in fact his ideas would make it easier for anyone to reproduce.)
09-10-1999, 06:54 PM
sweet mother of pearl!!! you two agree???
09-11-1999, 12:23 AM
Nice flame Phil! :)
In all seriousness, if one of mine was genetically defective, I would encourage them to adopt rather than risk the heartbreak of a sick child...and even though I was refering to survival of the sittest as a society rather than an individual basis, you raise the good point of the white/black trash Jerry Springer type of mother who gets knocked up every year, sits on her duff on welfare and declares loudly" I takes care of ma kids!"....that is a very real threat to the future of north american society, these are the future leaders of tomorrow.
Now in reference to my own children...their fathers are inconsequential...these are not 'welfare' children,they are not a drain or burden on society. I support them myself.(I figure if I want to have a dozen, as long as I dont need a fucking telethon to feed them, its my business!) They have a great future, and I feel they will someday contribute to the greater good even if it is just in a small way.(paying taxes etc..)
As far as the chinese & jobs...
1) they WONT be allowed to stay. They are illegally in this country.....put that on a job app, and see what it gets you! So since they CANT work, how do you supposed they are fed? My tax $$ that is how! If I dropped in on China, would they just take me, clothe and feed me? Doubt it.
2) I have held many jobs in the last 15 years, including waitressing at a seniors home, paper route, janitorial, served coffee, pumped gas...you name it, I have done it!(even MacDonalds!) so dont tell me what jobs I would take.
What would YOU do phil? live in 'Star Trek' world like C#3's where everyone takes care of everyone's needs? What incentive is there in a welfare society like that?
It will never happen. The societies that cant evolve enough to care for themselves cannot survive.It is the way of nature...like dinosaurs.
GOD! But when I say GOD, I mean Good Orderly Direction. Yes, education and justice are key elements. Tolerance and compassion, too.
I do not agree that we are worse beings than we were 10 years ago, or 100 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 100,000 years ago. People have been bitching about evil modern ways since the dawn of time. I believe that we are more aware of our many faults. We now know about most of the horrible stuff that goes on around the world every moment of the day. We used to live in relative blissful ignorance. Also, we do not accept many of the awful behaviors that we used to take for granted. If anything, this is evidence that we are improving.
Too slowly for my taste, but doing better.
Yes, Good Orderly Direction: that's me. But I'm much more. I call myself GOD for lack of a better word. I am God, Goddess, Godhead, Love, The Force, Allah, Yahweh, The Universe,
The Cosmos, Life, Energy, It, Intelligence, evolution, Nirvana, Bliss, Being, Jesus, Thor, Kali, Vishnu, Awareness, Justice, Right, Ultimate Good, Hope, and a million other things. Call it what you will, just believe in something. Even the most devout atheist can believe in his own Self-Actualization. Good enough.
The Universe is not meaningless. It is all-important, and every one of you is part of that. The particulars are irrelevant. The essence of it is to strive for goodness. Better yourselves and the world around you, as they are one and the same.
I am GOD. So are you. And they. And yes, even them. We are all GOD and we are evolving. Some of us don't help because we are unable. Some of us deliberately throw our wrench in the works. It's your choice whether to help or not, but the Process will continue. We ask that you participate in the glory of it all...or at least get out of the way. The Universe is going places. And having a blast along the way...
Oh yeah: one of my favorite nicknames is Mother Nature. Yes, you are part of Nature. How do you think you got here?
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