Removing a light switch

[Mathochist]

My parents have their TV/VCR etc. plugged into an outlet regulated by a single-pole light switch. They leave it on all the time so as not to erase VCR programming and such.

Recently they've started having someone come in to clean the house, and the crew simply can't understand not to touch that switch. So I've been called in to remove the switch and replace it with a blank faceplate.

Googling pulls up all sorts of DIY pages on how to replace a switch, but I'm having a hell of a time finding out how to remove one.

From what I understand, there are just two wires connecting to the switch (behind the faceplate), so I should shut down the power to that room, remove the whole switch, twist those two bare ends together, wrap with electrical tape, and screw on the blank faceplate. I just want some assurance from someone more expert than I that I won't be causing a short and burning down my inheritance.

[Belrix]

In general, you've got it right. I, however, would go the extra step and join the two wires together with a Wire nut (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0983498425.1151014963@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccffaddidmjjmelcgelceffdfgidgio.0&MID=9876). It'll meet code better and is less likely to spark & cause a fire.

Make sure you get one appropriate to hour house's wiring - usually 14 or 12 guage.

[Joey P]

Have you actually looked at the wires going into and out of the switch. If there are ONLY two wires attached to it then yes, that's what you'll do. The only change I would make is to use a wire nut, not electrical tape.

A simpler way would be to go to a hardware store and get a little lockout thingie. It's a small peice of plastic. You remove a screw, thread the screw through the plastic thingie, and back into the plate. The plastic piece keeps the switch from moving. This way if your parents ever rearrange they can still put a lamp or something else there.

[Belrix]

Hmm. Messed up the link. Picture (http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/300215_4.jpg)

[Joey P]

Little plastic lock thingie (http://lighting.gillroys.com/Lights_&_fixtures/Night_lights/Switch_Lock-s514721.html)

I know our Ace Hardware carries them right by the checkout.

[Xema]

A common low-tech solution is to put a piece of tape over the switch toggle, emblazoned with "Do not turn off".

[GaryM]

Go with the switch lock. My folks lived in an apartment with a similar situation and it was an ideal solution. Much better than the masking tape my Dad had applied.

[CookingWithGas]

In our house, all the outlets that are controlled by wall switches are just the top socket of the pair. Are they using both of the pair, and are they both controlled by the switch? Our house is fairly new, built 11 years ago, so older homes might not have this feature.

[Mathochist]

A common low-tech solution is to put a piece of tape over the switch toggle, emblazoned with "Do not turn off".

You think we haven't tried that?

[Mathochist]

In our house, all the outlets that are controlled by wall switches are just the top socket of the pair. Are they using both of the pair, and are they both controlled by the switch? Our house is fairly new, built 11 years ago, so older homes might not have this feature.

This is.. 20 years old I believe. I'm sure the switch controls the entire outlet all around the house.

[Rhubarb]

Another possible solution which doesn't even require a trip to the hardware store - Place both wires attached to the switch under the same terminal. The circuit will always be on regardless of the switch position and it can easily be changed back to normal operation. Also, you won't have a switch lock or blank plate looking out of place on the wall.

[flight]

Another possible solution which doesn't even require a trip to the hardware store - Place both wires attached to the switch under the same terminal. The circuit will always be on regardless of the switch position and it can easily be changed back to normal operation. Also, you won't have a switch lock or blank plate looking out of place on the wall.
This sounds like a better solution on the surface, but in ten years or so it will just be, "the switch that doesn't work anymore." At least with the other solution you know what is going on. It definitely is the easiest way though.

[Rhubarb]

This sounds like a better solution on the surface, but in ten years or so it will just be, "the switch that doesn't work anymore." At least with the other solution you know what is going on. It definitely is the easiest way though.
But as soon as you remove the switch plate to fix it you'll say "That's why this switch doesn't work! Some half-wit wired it wrong! Hey, why'd the TV just go off?" :D

[wolf_meister]

rhubarb
If I understand you correctly, your solution is to put both wires under the same screw terminal? If so, that isn't the safest thing to do.
How about disconnecting one wire and then connecting it to the backwire terminal of the wire that is connected to the screw terminal?
Either that or how about disconnecting the wires from the switch, join them with a wire nut and then replace the unconnected switch and cover plate? Personally, I think a switch looks a lot better than just a cover plate.
Good luck Mathochist

[Mathochist]

Good luck Mathochist

Thanks. Digging in the basement (too bad I'm not in archaeology.. I could get a paper out of it) I found a wire nut and blank faceplate. The wire nut plan is what I'm going with rather than alternatives to replacing the switch with a plate since -- and I find myself saying this with a lot of the jobs I'm doing for them this summer -- I just work here, boss.

[Thin Ice]

You can just unhook the wires from the switch and connect them together with a wirenut, tuck them back into the box and put the unwired switch and cover back in place. Unless you have a shallow box there is enough room to do this.

[Cheesesteak]

I found a wire nut and blank faceplate. This is the right way to do it. If you had a pro come in, I believe this is what you would get. I also suggest writing a little note on the back of the faceplate indicating which outlet these wires control.

[David Simmons]

You can just unhook the wires from the switch and connect them together with a wirenut, tuck them back into the box and put the unwired switch and cover back in place. Unless you have a shallow box there is enough room to do this.And if there is a bare wire connected to a green terminal on the switch you can just tuck that back into the box too. Of course if it's a metal box and there is a terminal that allows connection of the bare wire to the box it's a good idea to do that.

[Mathochist]

You can just unhook the wires from the switch and connect them together with a wirenut, tuck them back into the box and put the unwired switch and cover back in place. Unless you have a shallow box there is enough room to do this.

Again, I was told to replace with a blank faceplate and I'm doing exactly that. I just work here, boss.

[carnivorousplant]

You think we haven't tried that?

"Do not turn off or we will not pay you."

I wouldn't want someone that stupid in my house.

[Mathochist]

"Do not turn off or we will not pay you."

I wouldn't want someone that stupid in my house.

Neither would I but (all together now) I just work here, boss.

All of this is to the side of what I care(d) about: making sure I can do what I've been told to do without destroying something. Whether there are alternatives to that task is immaterial.

[Q.E.D.]

Whether there are alternatives to that task is immaterial.
To you, yes. But others reading this thread with a similar situation might benefit from the alternatives mentioned here.
rhubarb
If I understand you correctly, your solution is to put both wires under the same screw terminal? If so, that isn't the safest thing to do.
How so? It's unconventional, yes, and somewhat counter-intuitive, but unless I'm missing something it's just as safe as having the switch wired properly. That is, there's no fault that I can think of which could arise with both wires under one terminal that couldn't also occur with the same likelihood as with the wires correctly installed. That, provided the wires are secure under the terminal screw.

Electrically, it's the same as a closed switch.

[Joey P]

To you, yes. But others reading this thread with a similar situation might benefit from the alternatives mentioned here.

How so? It's unconventional, yes, and somewhat counter-intuitive, but unless I'm missing something it's just as safe as having the switch wired properly. That is, there's no fault that I can think of which could arise with both wires under one terminal that couldn't also occur with the same likelihood as with the wires correctly installed. That, provided the wires are secure under the terminal screw.

Electrically, it's the same as a closed switch.

I wondered the same thing (why would it not be safe). The ONLY think I can think of is that (if the switch is on), the 'unused' terminal will be hot. But, when working with electricity, you really shouldn't go around touching terminals, used or not, unless you've tested them.

[if6was9]

You think we haven't tried that?
How about "Touch this switch and you are fired"?

[if6was9]

Didn't read far enough... :smack:

[carnivorousplant]

Whether there are alternatives to that task is immaterial.

Of course.
BS, Electronic Engineering Technology
MS, Electronics and INstrumentation.

Go with the wire nut and blank plate.

[Mathochist]

I wondered the same thing (why would it not be safe). The ONLY think I can think of is that (if the switch is on), the 'unused' terminal will be hot. But, when working with electricity, you really shouldn't go around touching terminals, used or not, unless you've tested them.

Besides which the unused terminal will be behind the faceplate..

[Cheesesteak]

If I understand you correctly, your solution is to put both wires under the same screw terminal? If so, that isn't the safest thing to do.

How so? It's unconventional, yes, and somewhat counter-intuitive, but unless I'm missing something it's just as safe as having the switch wired properly. That is, there's no fault that I can think of which could arise with both wires under one terminal that couldn't also occur with the same likelihood as with the wires correctly installed. That, provided the wires are secure under the terminal screw.There's the rub, isn't it? The terminal screw is designed to secure one wire, and create a proper connection between that one wire and the switch/outlet. It is not designed to secure two wires to each other, and create a proper electrical connection between those two wires. You run a much higher risk of having that connection fail than you do with a wire nut. A failed connection will cause the outlet to fail, or may just create a hot spot and start a fire.

[wolf_meister]

Cheesesteak
Guess I've been away from this board for a while but you answered Q.E.D.'s question quite well.
From what I've read, a screw terminal is only used to secure one wire - that's it.

My suggestion about using a back wire connection with its associated screw terminal
is much safer and secure but I bet it is not approved in the National Electrical Code.
And it sure is an extreme cheapskate solution because a wire nut would do the job.

[Rhubarb]

Wolf_Meister and Cheesesteak, it is an extremely common practice to place two wires under a single screw terminal on light switches because the circuit doesn't always end at the switch. The hot wire will run to the switch and then continue on to the next switch or plug in the circuit, so safety is not really an issue.
I suggested this alternative as one that "didn't require a trip to the hardware store". I would generally use a wire nut and a blank in this situation myself, but might go with the alternative if I thought I might rearrange the furniture some day and have need of a switched outlet in that place again. It would be much easier to reconnect it if the switch was already there. Also, esthetically, I'm not fond of blank plates on walls. It looks like a mistake being covered up, whereas a switch, even non-functioning, looks normal to me.

I note that Mathochist has already procurd a blank plate and a wire nut, so he shouldn't have any problems removing this switch. I will assume he's savvy enough to kill the circuit before working on it and has the proper sized wire nut for this application. Probably a yellow, but if there are two wires on the hot terminal already, he might need a red. Of course, if he has the misfortune to encounter aluminum wiring, all bets are off.

[Bryan Ekers]

Incidentally, the little plastic wire-twisting-together thingy is a "splice cover".

If you end up doing something weird, I'd suggest writing a small note explaining your decision and tucking it in the box. In addition to not confusing yourself if you go back to make modifications ten years later, you can people it's a teeny-tiny time capsule.

[Cheesesteak]

Wolf_Meister and Cheesesteak, it is an extremely common practice to place two wires under a single screw terminal on light switches because the circuit doesn't always end at the switch. The hot wire will run to the switch and then continue on to the next switch or plug in the circuit, so safety is not really an issue.Safety is always an issue. Is that an accepted method under the NEC? Because, frankly, I don't care whether or not it's "common", I care whether or not it is up to code. Code violating setups are already way too common, my house came with at least 4. Let's not go out of our way to suggest another one. In your described situation, isn't that what pigtails are for?

I did a bit of research and dug up this from the state of Washington (http://www.lni.wa.gov/tradeslicensing/electrical/files/currents/elc9901.pdf) (warning .pdf)Multiple wire terminations in the same terminal lug
NEC 110-14(a) of the states in part that: “Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect
aluminum shall be so identified.” NEC 110-3(b) requires that: “Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed,
used, or both, in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.” The listing and labeling of
terminals includes the conductor size, the number of conductors, and any combinations of conductors that are
allowed to terminate in a single lug. This information may be marked directly on the terminal or may be included in
manufacturer’s information located on the equipment, such as a panelboard label.Unless the switch is labeled as accepting 2 wires under the screw, putting 2 wires under the screw violates the NEC. I don't have any switches handy, but my box of outlets clearly shows one wire in the diagram, and accepts up to 10ga on the side terminals and 14ga in the quick connect. Using the quick connect, as wolf_meister mentioned, would probably violate 110-3b, since the switch wouldn't be used in accordance with the instructions.

If being up to code is going to cost thousands of dollars you don't have, I wouldn't mind coming up with creative solutions. When the correct fix costs 10 cents what's the motivation for creativity, outside of sheer laziness?

[Rhubarb]

Cheesesteak, today I learned a new thing. After reading your post I called my brother (a Master Electrician). He tells me that only switches and plugs which are UL listed for multiple conductors may have two wires under one terminal. The only ones he knows of use a pressure plate, where the wires are under the pressure plate, which is tightened by the screw. In all other cases a pigtail must be used.

Thank you for correcting me on this.

As a side note, even though it is approved by NEC, I would not normally use the quick-connect. It has a bad habit of failing after 10-15 years of use and killing a whole string of switches or plugs.

[wolf_meister]

rhubarb
Yes, I always use the screw terminals as opposed to those back wire ("quick connect") plug-ins. As you said, they are unreliable and can fail.

Cheesesteak
I had a feeling my "cheapskate" solution would not be in compliance with the electrical code - now I'm sure. But hey it saves the ¢ost of one wire nut. :)
(This message Approved by the Penny Wise Dollar Foolish Electrical Association).

[Princhester]

The other basic problem with the cheapskate idea is that it leaves a switch related to an "on" socket which may look as if it will turn that socket off but which will not. Yes, I know that it would be silly for someone to turn off the switch and then assume that the associated socket was dead. People do silly things. Better not to help them.

[flight]

rhubarb
Yes, I always use the screw terminals as opposed to those back wire ("quick connect") plug-ins. As you said, they are unreliable and can fail.

Cheesesteak
I had a feeling my "cheapskate" solution would not be in compliance with the electrical code - now I'm sure. But hey it saves the ¢ost of one wire nut. :)
(This message Approved by the Penny Wise Dollar Foolish Electrical Association).
And while we are on good wiring practices, it is a good idea to wrap around the switch (covering both terminals) with electrician's tape. I have rarely seen it done and it is not required by any code I have seen, but it helps prevent shorts due to the bare ground coming into contact with a live wire.

[Rhubarb]

And while we are on good wiring practices, it is a good idea to wrap around the switch (covering both terminals) with electrician's tape. I have rarely seen it done and it is not required by any code I have seen, but it helps prevent shorts due to the bare ground coming into contact with a live wire.
I have seen it done occasionally. What really burns my bacon is an apparently common practice among electricians. They use the stab-in connection (quick-connect) on the back and leave the side terminal screws fully extended (normal out-of-the-box condition). This is not too bad in residential caonstruction where the switch/plug boxes are plastic, but in commercial construction, with metal boxes, a loose device can make a very startling light show when the screws touch the side of the box.

[flight]

I have seen it done occasionally. What really burns my bacon is an apparently common practice among electricians. They use the stab-in connection (quick-connect) on the back and leave the side terminal screws fully extended (normal out-of-the-box condition). This is not too bad in residential caonstruction where the switch/plug boxes are plastic, but in commercial construction, with metal boxes, a loose device can make a very startling light show when the screws touch the side of the box.
Yikes, I had always thought the stab-in connections were a cheap and somewhat dangerous way of doing things. Some of them hold very poorly even when new.