Which is the best detterant against Jewish vampires?

[The Weird One]

Not wishing to hijack this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377851), I'll ask it here: when facing a Jewish vampire, is a cross an effective deterrant, or should I use a Star of David? And, for that matter, what should I use against Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or Pagan vampires? And if I'm up against an aetheist vampire, am I up shit creek, too? I know that in certain stories, a cross is only effective against vampires if the user has faith in its power, but I don't remember the faith of the vampire ever coming into play.

[Oakminster]

Forget the symbols, just eat lots of pork.

[Larry Mudd]

A cheese collar.

[astorian]

There's no intelligent answer to this question, obviously. Since vampires are wholly ficitious, they take on whatever characteristics a given author chooses to give them.

So, Bram Stoker might say the cross would work against ANY vampire, regardless of what religion he'd belonged to, since the cross has supernatural powers.

Richard Matheson might say that talismans have no supernatural powers, and religious symbols frighten only vampires who adhered to the relevant faith while they were human.

You could write your own vampire novel and make up your own rules.

There's no reason to take any horror author's work as Gospel.

[Queen Bruin]

I'd lob medium-rare bacon cheeseburgers at it, but that's just me.

[The Weird One]

There's no intelligent answer to this question, obviously. Since vampires are wholly ficitious, they take on whatever characteristics a given author chooses to give them.
Yes, but it's much more entertaining to discuss them as if they were real. This is meant to be a funny thread, not an informative one.

[Linty Fresh]

Anyone else flashing back to The Fearless Vampire Killers (http://imdb.com/title/tt0061655/)?

"Oy vey! Have you got the wrong vampire!

[ultrafilter]

Personally, I'd guess that tactical nukes are a great defense against vampires of any faith.

[Oregon sunshine]

I don't think that the blood of victims is exactly kosher. ;j

[Anaamika]

If you're going against a Hindu vampire...well, it rather goes against the concept of ahimsa (non-violence) to begin with but I guess you could wave a really bloody hunk of beef.

[Der Trihs]

A crossbow with a wooden stake comes to mind. In terms of holy symbols, none, as a modern vampire will just pull out a pistol and shoot you if you wave a holy symbol at him. "Let's see Jesus stop this ! < BAM ! >" :D

[Harmonious Discord]

Death by fire is always a proven method in the older books from different countries.

[MaxTheVool]

Well, there's always the Jewish equivalent of Holy Water, so.... Manischevitz?

[Quartz]

Personally, I'd guess that tactical nukes are a great defense against vampires of any faith.
I always thought that it was the faith of the wielder, not the vampire that mattered; but with nukes, you'll need thermo-nukes to generate genuine sunlight. Ordinary nukes will just make the vampire radioactive.

[detop]

Mad magazine once came out with a solution : drive a Cadillac through their heart.

[marque elf]

You know, I'm surprised that this never came up on Buffy. They had black vampires, asian vampires but they remained altogether silent on their vampires' religion. Of course, in the Buffyverse, a demon takes over the body of vampire's victim. Its pretty clear that the demon retains the memories and some of the personality of the body it invades. Therefore, if that person was religious, then the vampire it became would probably be affected negatively by the religious symbols it once revered.

The Star of David really isn't the Jewish equivalent of a cross. It has no intrinsic holiness. Maybe if you hit the vamp with a torah though...

[Der Trihs]

I always thought that it was the faith of the wielder, not the vampire that mattered; but with nukes, you'll need thermo-nukes to generate genuine sunlight. Ordinary nukes will just make the vampire radioactive.I never played the game, but I've been told that old-time World of Darkness vamps are immune to nukes, because they aren't magic. I also recall a vampire short story where aliens burned away all life on Earth with radiation, and were astonished to find survivers. They brought them on board to investigate, and the crew started getting weaker and sicker and weaker . . .

Quoting from memory ( so I'm sure it's wrong ), when the Captain questions one of them at the end :

"The ancients knew how to deal with us, so well that by your arrival we were thought to be myths. Until you came, and your radiation burned away the stakes and melted the chains."

"Nothing human could have survived what you did to Earth. Nothing human did. Now, you will take us to your world, where your people shall meet their new Masters."

[carnivorousplant]

Well, there's always the Jewish equivalent of Holy Water, so.... Manischevitz?

[Throwing matzoh soaked in wine] "Take that, you schmuck! Vhy ist tonight different from every other night, Count?!"

[Bippy the Beardless]

A pork steak through the heart, duh.

[bagkitty]

Am I gonna get accused of anti-semitism if I suggest a retail price sticker..... :wally

[carnivorousplant]

Is he an Orthodox or Reform vampire?

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Try Guilt.

With the large "G".

[Happy Clam]

Well, it's apparent from the huge variety of literature on the subject that there are multiple different varities of vampire; "traditional" vampires, whose aversion to the Cross is based on the "fact" that it is the symbol of the One True God, and that said vampires are in league with the devil; "modern" vampires, whose symbol-wariness tends to be based on personal belief before death; and even such oddities as vampirism as a medical condition (think Morbius from "Spider-Man"- I always found him a bit odd because, hey, aren't there real vampires in the Marvel universe?).

Now, I don't think a Star of David would work against any of these: for the first two, it's not really a "religous symbol", so unless we assume vamp. type 2, and a formerly devout jew who is also stupid enough to think of the star as being a symbol of his (ex?)faith, it won't effect them, any more than it will medical vampires. I think you'd be much safer going for the tried-and-tested: holy water (should work for almost any type of vampire), garlic (this one tends to be constant in all vampire stories, as well) and maybe silver, cold iron, or wood (through the heart).

[carnivorousplant]

holy water (should work for almost any type of vampire),Meshugganah


garlic (this one tends to be constant in all vampire stories, as well)
You, Sir, never had my aunt's cabbage rolls.

[Revenant Threshold]

As the Chosen people, perhaps Jews have an intrinsic holiness. Sort of a..vampire forcefield, I guess. :p

[carnivorousplant]

As the Chosen people, perhaps Jews have an intrinsic holiness.
Nah, you're thinking of the Unitarians.
We were chosen to make G-d known to other people, and quit because they killed us for it. :)

[Happy Clam]

Meshugganah
.
Nah, I meant due to the idea that it is empowered with holiness by a servant of the "one true god"- if the Vampire in question is from a universe where the judeo-christiain-islamic deity is top dog, then any holy water blessed by a Christian, Jewish or Muslim priest ought to burn him equally- not because of the priest, but because of the holiness.

Oh, and I meant that garlic is a common factor in nearly all garlic stories, so it ought to work equally for gentile and jewish vampires.

[carnivorousplant]

holy water blessed by a Christian, Jewish or Muslim priest
Jews don't have priests anymore, since we no longer have a Temple. A Jewish vampire wouldn't be afraid of Christian parapnalia unless his Mother was worried about his converting. :)

[carnivorousplant]

N
Oh, and I meant that garlic is a common factor in nearly all garlic stories, so it ought to work equally for gentile and jewish vampires.
Not if he became immune to my Aunt's cooking while he was alive.

[Happy Clam]

Jews don't have priests anymore, since we no longer have a Temple. A Jewish vampire wouldn't be afraid of Christian parapnalia unless his Mother was worried about his converting. :)
Yah, but it's still the same god. The way I see it, if we assume a vampire who makes a deal with the devil to get his powers (as in Dracula, for instance), then anything sacred to Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah will hurt him- and that includes holy water blessed by any holy figure equipped to do so within one of those religions.

[carnivorousplant]

holy water blessed by any holy figure equipped to do so within one of those religions.
Think of Die Hard where the New York policeman had no authority in Los Angeles.

[Happy Clam]

Think of Die Hard where the New York policeman had no authority in Los Angeles.
Same.God. Assuming that the Judeo-Christian god is dominant, and that s/he is, as Bible, Torah and Koran all say, the same god, it is that entity who gets to decide who is equipped to imbue water with holiness, not the Jewish vampire getting the stuff splashed on him. I know that the concept of the devil doesn't really exist in Jewish mythology, but if there are vampires running around, we have to assume that there is some evil entity that gave those creatures their powers- an entity which is opposed to the Judeo-Christian god, and whose servitors (vampire) are gonna get hurt by holy water, regardless of the faith they had before their death.

I mean, if the priest/rabbi/mullah (I know these terms are not synonymous) is empowered by the Big G to imbue water, wafer, wine or whatever with His Holy Might, what's the vampire gonna do about it?

Vampire:"Oh, yeah, Holy Water. I'm Jewish, doesn't count."
Booming Voice: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHO DELIVERED YOUR PEOPLE OUT OF ISRAEL.
Vampire: What the fuc- OH SHIT IT BURNS!
:D

[msmith537]

(think Morbius from "Spider-Man"- I always found him a bit odd because, hey, aren't there real vampires in the Marvel universe?).



According to the Blade movies which take place in the Marvel universe, vampires can be killed by garlic, UV light (inlcuding the sun) and silver (which I always thought was for werewolves). Crosses and holy water, not so much.

[carnivorousplant]

Same G-d.
Yes, but the reports made by the Christians and Moslems leave something to be desired. For further discussion, please see your Rabbi. :)

[Happy Clam]

Yes, but the reports made by the Christians and Moslems leave something to be desired. For further discussion, please see your Rabbi. :)
Fair enough. :) My point was that holy stuff = hurty vampire, no matter what faith said vampire was (is being a bit of misnomer here, I feel). Mind you, if we're going to discuss whether you can, in fact, make holy stuff at all (in Jewish mythology), then I think I'll need to hand over the debate to someone more knowledgeable than I.

My final suggestion? If all else fails, sick the golem of Prague on him. ;j

[Skald the Rhymer]

Back when Chris Claremont was writing X-Men in the 80s, it was established that, for Marvel Comics at least, the determining factor was the faith of the person wielding the symbol. Thus Nightcrawler, a Catholic, could use a cross; Kitty Pryde, a (presumably reform) Jew could use a Star of David but found the cross useless; and Wolverine, an atheist, might as well stick to his claws. It made me wonder if Peter Rasputin (still a communist back then) might have found a picture of Lenin useful; or whether Magneto, who pretty much worshipped mutancy, might have used a symbol of the X-Gene. :D

[carnivorousplant]

My final suggestion? If all else fails, sick the golem of Prague on him. ;j
Good point. He may be able to regenerate body parts, but he can't chase you while having his limbs repeatedly ripped off. :)

[Der Trihs]

Back when Chris Claremont was writing X-Men in the 80s, it was established that, for Marvel Comics at least, the determining factor was the faith of the person wielding the symbol. Thus Nightcrawler, a Catholic, could use a cross; Kitty Pryde, a (presumably reform) Jew could use a Star of David but found the cross useless; and Wolverine, an atheist, might as well stick to his claws. It made me wonder if Peter Rasputin (still a communist back then) might have found a picture of Lenin useful; or whether Magneto, who pretty much worshipped mutancy, might have used a symbol of the X-Gene. :DIn that case, Dr Doom can use a self portrait. :D Or maybe vampires just cower when he walks into a room, and burst into flame when he touches them.

[Skald the Rhymer]

In that case, Dr Doom can use a self portrait. :D Or maybe vampires just cower when he walks into a room, and burst into flame when he touches them.

hmm..what if it's a Doombot? After all, they think they're Doom except when in the presence of each other or the boss.

[Flutterby]

I never played the game, but I've been told that old-time World of Darkness vamps are immune to nukes, because they aren't magic. I also recall a vampire short story where aliens burned away all life on Earth with radiation, and were astonished to find survivers. They brought them on board to investigate, and the crew started getting weaker and sicker and weaker . . .

Quoting from memory ( so I'm sure it's wrong ), when the Captain questions one of them at the end :

"The ancients knew how to deal with us, so well that by your arrival we were thought to be myths. Until you came, and your radiation burned away the stakes and melted the chains."

"Nothing human could have survived what you did to Earth. Nothing human did. Now, you will take us to your world, where your people shall meet their new Masters."

Don't know about the nukes, but in 3rd anyone who has True Faith can hurt vamps with it.. whether it be true faith in Jesus, G-d, Satan, the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Flying Spaghetti Monster.. as long as it is true faith, it works.

If you could find that story again, I'd love to read it.

[Harmonious Discord]

An older book has vampires in England that says you can kill a vampire just about any way you do a man. The touch of the full moon will return them to life, so you needed to destroy the body or put it where the full moon never shines.

[Grumman]

...or whether Magneto, who pretty much worshipped mutancy, might have used a symbol of the X-Gene. :D
One of the "300 things Mr Welch can no longer do in an RPG" comes to mind:

109. Not allowed to kill a vampire with any part from a DC-10 larger than my car.

[Der Trihs]

If you could find that story again, I'd love to read it.I think it was in a sci-fi themed collection of vampire stories called Tomorrow Sucks.

[Alessan]

The Star of David really isn't the Jewish equivalent of a cross. It has no intrinsic holiness. Maybe if you hit the vamp with a torah though...

That would work.

I'm serious - if anything has intristic holiness in Judaism it's the written word, with certain words having special significance. A Tora would do the job, as would tfillin; I doubt a Jewish vamp would be able to cross a threshold containing a mezzuzah, either. IMHO, the very sight of the Tetramogram (YHVH) would have basically the same efect as a cross, so I'd walk around with it written on a piece of paper, etxhed into a piece of metal or even felt-tipped on my forehead.

[Jonathan Chance]

But not tattooed, of course.

Interesting.

[Nava]

hmm..what if it's a Doombot? After all, they think they're Doom except when in the presence of each other or the boss.

Hrm... faith is "conviction without proof" - if a bot can have conviction, then the Doombot's conviction of being the true Doom might count.

[Tully Mars]

You could write your own vampire novel and make up your own rules.

There's no reason to take any horror author's work as Gospel.

Or, if you're Ann Rice, you can make up your own rules, then 589 pages later, ignore the rules and make up some new ones.

[Mangetout]

Is this Jewish vampire an observant Jew? If so, perhaps you could engage him in debate over some point or other, then quietly slip away while he's trying to work out his position on the matter.

[jjimm]

I'd say langoustine in an aioli cream sauce should do it.

[Malacandra]

An older book has vampires in England that says you can kill a vampire just about any way you do a man. The touch of the full moon will return them to life, so you needed to destroy the body or put it where the full moon never shines.

*snertle* :D

[Happy Clam]

*snertle* :D
Oy! I don't know whether to feel sorry for the vampire or the hunter!

Well, you know what they said about Van Helsing- man always acted like he had a bug up his ass!

[Shirley Ujest]

Try Guilt.

With the large "G".

Also works on Catholic Vampires.

[carnivorousplant]

Guilt.

Victim: Oy, I suppose you're going to suck my blood and leave me to change into a monster.

Vampire: Well, yes, that's how this sort of ting is usually done.

Victim: Who will ask the questions at the Seder? Not to worry. My cousin Moshe. Mother hates Moshe.

Vampire: Well, maybe...

Victim: Moshe drank Elijah's wine last year.

Vampire: Hey, look...

Victim: Don't worry! I'll just lie here and transmogrify in the dark.

[Harmonious Discord]

I was hoping someone would catch the phrasing on that one.

[Kyla]

Booming Voice: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHO DELIVERED YOUR PEOPLE OUT OF ISRAEL


Out of EGYPT.

Anyway, this has been covered on Buffy, my personal guide to all thing vampiric. I can't believe none of you nerds remember that Willow - who's Jewish - is a vampire in the alternate universe where Buffy never comes to Sunnydale. (As covered in the Season 3 episodes The Wish and Dopplegangland.) I don't recall her being scared away by a cross, but she leaves Cordy alone after Wesley threatens her with a bottleof holy water.

[Ephemera]

Aren't she and vampire Xander kept from entering the book cage by one of the characters (Oz? Larry?) brandishing a handy cross after they drain Cordy?

[Happy Clam]

Out of EGYPT.

Anyway, this has been covered on Buffy, my personal guide to all thing vampiric. I can't believe none of you nerds remember that Willow - who's Jewish - is a vampire in the alternate universe where Buffy never comes to Sunnydale. (As covered in the Season 3 episodes The Wish and Dopplegangland.) I don't recall her being scared away by a cross, but she leaves Cordy alone after Wesley threatens her with a bottleof holy water.
Yeah, I was kinda hoping no-one would catch that (could we not have an edit function in MPSIMS, at least?). So Joss Whedon and I are agreed- holy water=dead Jewish vampire.

[Kyla]

Aren't she and vampire Xander kept from entering the book cage by one of the characters (Oz? Larry?) brandishing a handy cross after they drain Cordy?

Oooh, I think so. And, though it violates the X-Men's rules of vampires, Willow also uses a cross to keep Angelus away at one point.