Employer is keeping my tips

[Scuba Steve]

I'm a host at a very nice country club. Old men drink brandy while the ladies play bridge. I light cigars for the gentlemen.

Every day, the guests come in for lunch. It's typical Aramark style trash, served at about $15/plate for the buffet. On top of every tip is an automatic 18% gratuity, coupled with a $3 service charge. In addition to this, there is a separate blank, where guests can write in an additional tip, which many choose to do.

What they don't know, and aren't allowed to know, is that the company keeps all of this money, and we aren't allowed to tell them this. We're paid above minimum wage., but I want to reiterate the gratuity and service charge are mandatory.

Someone, please tell me this is illegal and how.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I'm assuming that your employment with the country club is voluntary, and they do, in fact pay you a wage that you both agreed to when you took the job.

So, no, they're not doing anything illegal. Anoying maybe, but not illegal.

I suppose you could blab to the guests, but I wouldn't count on maintaining employment if you do.

[control-z]

I never liked the whole tipping thing anyway, but if the customers/members think you're getting a tip and you're not, that's not a good way for a business to treat their customers.

[gotpasswords]

Blab to your state's labor commission. One distinct problem I can envision will be at tax time when the restaurant reports those 18% tips to the IRS.

[Q.E.D.]

One distinct problem I can envision will be at tax time when the restaurant reports those 18% tips to the IRS.
I bet the restaurant can envision those problems, too. Maybe they didn't report them at all. That's BIG trouble.

[Fir na tine]

IANAL but it would seem they are perpretrating a fraud on their guests. The guest thinks they are tipping you while they are actually adding to the gross profit of the club.

Do you know any of the members of the Board? You might just ask casually "Gee, this is unusual, do all clubs keep the tips?"

I agrre with ALice that you personally don't have a claim. I also agree with gotpasswords that you want to watch your W-2 very carefully.

[Scuba Steve]

IANAL but it would seem they are perpretrating a fraud on their guests. The guest thinks they are tipping you while they are actually adding to the gross profit of the club.
This was what I suspected to be the real crime (although I still hope I might get my tips). The way I see it, if they're defrauding customers, the only thing they can do to avoid trouble is to refund the money to the customers, or give me what the guests thought was mine to begin with.

[pulykamell]

Here's the federal fact sheet on it. (http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs15.htm)

To be honest, I can't tell. It seems to depend on whether you're classified as a "tipped employee." If you are a tipped employee, then the employer cannot keep your tip, no matter the agreement, but can keep the compulsory service charge. However, I can't tell where your situation lies.

[DrDeth]

What State are you in? Check with your States labor comm/board.

[anson2995]

FWIW, this is why I always tip in cash, even if I pay the bill by credit card. I want to be sure that it's going to the person I'm giving it to.

[Harmonious Discord]

I love these employers that think "Because I say so." or "It's company policy." makes practices legal. It's very obvious why they'd not want the patrons to know of this practice, they're funneling money from them meant for you into the business. I can see this even being a scam by some bosses to keep unreported money. Get hold of the state attorney general or the other suggestions and ask them.

[DrDeth]

I'm assuming that your employment with the country club is voluntary, and they do, in fact pay you a wage that you both agreed to when you took the job.

So, no, they're not doing anything illegal. Anoying maybe, but not illegal.
.

Your employment may be voluntary, and you can )and dudes do) agree to many things that aren't according to their States or Federal Labor Codes. Your agreement doesn't make it legal. You can agree all you want to work for less than Minimum wage, but it's still (in most cases) against the law.

[dmatsch]

So let me get this straight.

The CC you work at no doubtedly charges an annual membership fee.

And they still have the nerve to nickel and dime their guest with a service fee AS WELL AS a mandatory gratuity (which, as the name implys itself is meant for the service help)? Not to mention $15 for a simple buffet-style meal?

And on top of that there is an extra space on the guest check for an additional gratuity that ALSO does not go to you??? WTF??

How long are you planning on remaining employed here, and what's the service industry job market look like in your area? You get my meaning?

[Kalhoun]

That's big money they're defrauding the customers out of. I'd narc AND blab. Fuck them!

[Pleonast]

You might try an anonymous letter/phonecall to a local newspaper/television station. A little publicity can work wonders on questionable business practices.

[wevets]

I'm assuming that your employment with the country club is voluntary, and they do, in fact pay you a wage that you both agreed to when you took the job.

I'm not sure it's relevant what he agreed to. As a customer, it's immoral for the club to charge my bill fraudulently, and depending on the jurisdiction, it may be illegal to charge me a gratuity that is not in fact a gratuity. The local Better Business Bureau or Consumer Affairs Office should know about this.

So, no, they're not doing anything illegal. Anoying maybe, but not illegal.

Don't be so sure. Some (most?) localities have laws against fraudulent charges on a bill.

[Cerowyn]

FWIW, this is why I always tip in cash, even if I pay the bill by credit card. I want to be sure that it's going to the person I'm giving it to.That wouldn't help in this case, because the "tip" is included on the bill.

[yelimS]

That wouldn't help in this case, because the "tip" is included on the bill.

You don't have to fill it out if you don't want to, you can just stick the money in his hand.

I'm with the rest on this, alert local authorities and papers, if you can afford to lose your job, that is. I don't know how you'd stick out from your colleagues regarding suspicion from your employer, but there's probably a lot you can do anonymously.
You might not get much out of it yourself, but people shouldn't get off doing business like that.

[DrDeth]

You don't have to fill it out if you don't want to, you can just stick the money in his hand.
.
No, the bill includes an "automatic 18% gratuity, coupled with a $3 service charge". How does the OP get that back?

And of course, cash tips lead to tax problems.

[Rick]

It is for sure an imoral thing to do. Karma can be a bitch. But beyond that, here in California the food in a restaurant is taxed, the tip isn't. If they are keeping the tip, they are defrauding the state out of tax revenue.
I don't know your state's attitude about this, but the Calfornia Franchise Tax board would be on them like stink on shit.
Drop a dime.
Remember what I said about karma? :D

[Frylock]

I request that you keep us posted on this one. This is a really interesting story.

-Kris

[Askia]

You might try an anonymous letter/phonecall to a local newspaper/television station. A little publicity can work wonders on questionable business practices. I think the way you like.

[Frylock]

I'm thinking you should send some anonymous letters out to some of the customers of this place.

That would be fun.

-Kris

[Weirddave]

You might try an anonymous letter/phonecall to a local newspaper/television station. A little publicity can work wonders on questionable business practices.
I agree wholeheartedly. I'd be furious-I mean, I'd be chewing neutronium-if the money I put down as a tip did NOT go to my server.

[dnooman]

How would your employer react to you making their business practice known? Might they be willing to pay the tips to you, if you suggested such a disclosure might occur? Unless your regular wages are great, I'd start looking at alternative employment first though.

[AWB]

The situation kinda sounds like my pizza delivery boss. Ever since gas has gone over $2.00/gal, they've tacked on a $1.50/delivery delivery charge. We drivers still get our 3% commission (of pre-tax price of food and of the delivery charge), plus 25 cents per delivery. But the customers commonly assume that all of it goes to the drivers, when we only get 29 1/2 cents.

But we've never been told not to tell the customers. If any ask me, I give them the breakdown.

[Dag Otto]

How would your employer react to you making their business practice known? Might they be willing to pay the tips to you, if you suggested such a disclosure might occur? Unless your regular wages are great, I'd start looking at alternative employment first though.

If this is illegal, I bet that quite a few workers would be due a fair amount of backpay. How long has the club done this?

[Cheesesteak]

But beyond that, here in California the food in a restaurant is taxed, the tip isn't. If they are keeping the tip, they are defrauding the state out of tax revenue. Ooooooh, that's a good one, but you have to be SURE they aren't paying the tax. It would be trivial for them to back into the tax amount, and add that to their check to the state.

I think the best option is the local newspaper. They would KILL to get a juicy story of consumer/tax fraud. If that doesn't go anywhere, maybe try your state attorney general, but then your name will be attached to the complaint.

[Scuba Steve]

Sorry for the absence, fellows. Long, busy day. I'll answer what questions I can. Sorry for no quote attributions, I'm not entirely sure how this BB system works.

Do you know any of the members of the Board?
I know one member, and I haven't talked with him yet. I called the treasurer of the board, and she just cackled and said "well sue us!" I am not making this up.

Check with your States labor comm/board.
Alabama doesn't have any special labor laws, according to the dept of labor website. We follow the federal guidelines, and that's it.

You might try an anonymous letter/phonecall to a local newspaper/television station. A little publicity can work wonders on questionable business practices.
This is looking like my best option. The law seems to be a bit gray (which means lawyers are even more expensive), so if I get the customers riled up, they'll listen, legal or not.

How would your employer react to you making their business practice known? Might they be willing to pay the tips to you, if you suggested such a disclosure might occur? Unless your regular wages are great, I'd start looking at alternative employment first though.
I thought of this, but I'm thinking it might not be a good idea. Maybe if I worked at Applebees or something, but there are some powerful people here. The president of Alabama Power comes in at least twice a week. A senator is a member. God only knows how powerful the board is, and they might have the power to stop publication if they catch wind early enough.

[Mr. Slant]

And given the amount of information you've shared, anyone on this board could now figure out where you work if they felt like making the right phone calls or are familiar with your local area.
Was that your intention?

[Little Nemo]

I think the club might be covered on the 18% gratuity and the three dollar service charge. While must customers will assume that this money is going to their server, it's not implicitly stated so. So the club can argue that this money was never yours to begin with.

On the other hand, while I'm not a lawyer, I think a strong case can be made that any additional tips the customers designate are the server's. If the club is pocketing this money, it's stealing.

[OKFMDOA]

How would your employer react to you making their business practice known? Might they be willing to pay the tips to you, if you suggested such a disclosure might occur? Unless your regular wages are great, I'd start looking at alternative employment first though.I thought of this, but I'm thinking it might not be a good idea. Maybe if I worked at Applebees or something, but there are some powerful people here. The president of Alabama Power comes in at least twice a week. A senator is a member. God only knows how powerful the board is, and they might have the power to stop publication if they catch wind early enough.Plus, you don't (I hope) want to get into a situation you get paid extra to keep quiet but your coworkers are still getting the raw deal.

One more vote for the tipping off the press idea.

[Scuba Steve]

And given the amount of information you've shared, anyone on this board could now figure out where you work if they felt like making the right phone calls or are familiar with your local area.
Was that your intention?
I admit, I'm not trying very hard to keep it secret. I've got another job lined up to start in a couple of weeks that will make just as much money, I just want any back pay owed to me, and I don't want any of the other people working here to get screwed. One lady has been here for over 30 years and is the nicest person I have ever met.

These people are bastards, plain and simple.

[Jeff Lichtman]

I found something on the Federal Department of Labor web site that seems to apply:

Tipped Employees (http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/hrg.htm#3)

Here's an excerpt:

. . . employees must retain all of their tips, except to the extent that they participate in a valid tip pooling or sharing arrangement.

So according to DOL, the tips are supposed to go to you, not to your employer. My guess is they owe you a lot of money.

BTW, some years ago there was a similar case in Oakland, CA. A lawyer who worked near Chinatown found out that most of the restaurants in the area kept the tips that were supposed to go to the waiters. He took it on himself to represent a large group of waiters pro bono. With the lawyer's help the waiters won their back pay. I don't know remember whether they had to go to court.

[drachillix]

These people are bastards, plain and simple.

And im sure a couple of your coworkers would happily chip in for you guys to have a visit with a lawyer specializing in these areas. Might be the best $250 you could ever spend.

Your lawyer could easily arrange to take a DA or two out to lunch. If they are reporting tips as paid to the employees rather than the business a call to the IRS could unleash an ass kicking of biblical proportions for the owners of the club.

[dnooman]

Your customers are without a doubt, more powerful than your employer. They are judges, lawyers, etc.

They hold the highest card, not your boss.

If it were me, (storytelling, not instruction) I'd call up mr. Dickhead manager and say the following.

"I'm really dissatisfied with the way you pay me. Specifically, the way you keep the tips that our guests think are going to me. The people that write those additional tips, pay the included tips, pay the exorbitant buffet cost, and pay the "service charge", are the people that keep this place funded."

"The goal of this club, is to provide comfort, satisfaction, and luxury to our guests. The knowledge that you keep the "tips" written in on checks, as well as the built-in gratuity and the service charge, would appall most of our members. In fact, they'd probably demand that the person responsible for implementing such practices be fired immediately."

"It's above your head?" "I'm sure that the paying members of this club have no qualms about going to the top."

"If you'd like to pay me my share of the tips, I'll consider not disclosing the unfortunate practices that your office employed. If not, I see no reason that I should not inform the general population of our paying memebers that the money they think is being given to the staff, is in fact being kept by the management."

"This would not be a defamatory statement. I'd neither slander the busines, nor issue libelous statements. I'd just be making clear the employee payment policies of the Club."


"I have a new job lined up. Do you?"

"I'm willing to make this story public knowledge. Are you?"



Obviously there are many caveats, and a few issues which might be interpreted as being illegal. These points will come up. Please take my statement not as instruction, but as fiction, as I've stated. Thanks.

[MizGrand]

Okay folks, lets get to work here. Which one is it? I'd be happy to send an "anonymous" note to local paper/tv. Just need the right name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cherokee Ridge Country Club Union Grove, AL
Cedar Creek Country Club Bessemer, AL
Lakeview Country Club Inc McCalla, AL
Golf Club at Cumberland Lake Pinson, AL
Cahaba Valley Country Club Trussville, AL
Marcum Country Club Empire, AL
Woodward Golf & Country Club Bessemer, AL

[gigi]

Assuming that the employees could be paid a lower-than-minimum-wage amount as a server, by paying higher than that the employee is passing on the tips, since the tip amount is steady as well as the wages in excess of minimum wage. It's a roundabout way but the tips do get passed on (the employee can afford to pay more because of having collected the extra gratuity). The employee's wages are taxed so that money is being taxed in one way.

[Mr. Slant]

gigi,

Your argument has some merit, but if you were to dine at this place, would you feel deceived if you found out the tips didn't go directly to the servers, or at least a pool that went directly to the servers?
If you have to tell someone, "Shh! Don't tell!!," you're usually doing something wrong.

[A.R. Cane]

I think I'd first look into report this to the IRS. I suspect these folks are indulging in some creative accounting. If that's true, the IRS will pay a reward based on a percentage of any monies collected and I believe you may remain anonymous under whistleblower laws. After making an IRS complaint there's nothing to stop you from going to the state AG and or the media. If there's as much political influence as you imply, among the membership, it could work for you, or against you. It's probably not likely, but you could be opening a real can of worms here, how vulnerable are you and/or you family if that should happen?

[R. P. McMurphy]

There's also the political angle. Is the Senator up for reelection? Would his opposition party love a piece of slime to smear on him? Maybe they would run with the story. They usually have pro bono lawyers at their disposal.

Personally, I would not want to go to a club where I knew they were screwing the employees. The "little guys" can do all kind of things to exact a measure of revenge for a bad situation. Spitting in the food is all too common and the least of the possibilities.

Sounds like an arrogant bunch you are dealing with. Have fun bringing them down.

[Cheesesteak]

There's no evidence here that the employees are being screwed. He's being paid above minimum wage. If he was never promised tips, why does he deserve tips? If the club had called it an 18% service fee instead of an 18% gratuity, or if it were just added to the cost of each item, would the employee suddenly be unscrewed?

If anybody is being wronged, it's the membership who is being told they are leaving a tip for the servers, when that is not the case. Legally (and morally) I don't think the servers have grounds for feeling wronged.

[drachillix]

Okay folks, lets get to work here. Which one is it? I'd be happy to send an "anonymous" note to local paper/tv. Just need the right name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cherokee Ridge Country Club Union Grove, AL
Cedar Creek Country Club Bessemer, AL
Lakeview Country Club Inc McCalla, AL
Golf Club at Cumberland Lake Pinson, AL
Cahaba Valley Country Club Trussville, AL
Marcum Country Club Empire, AL
Woodward Golf & Country Club Bessemer, AL

Hell I would be happy to arrange for the IRS to find out....just one phone call to mom :D

[Monty]

In my humble, non-lawyerly, opinion, there is evidence that the employees are being screwed. The lower minimum wage is a floor, a guarantee, of a minimum (thus the word in the title after all) wage that an employee who derives more than a certain percentage or amount (I forget which it is) of his income in tips. The amount of his base pay is irrelevant to the issue of "Is the employer scarfing the employee's income?" As a portion of the income for an employee in such a service profession does come from tips, and the employees at the OP's place of employ are not in a "tip pooling" agreement, the tips are designated by the tipper to go to the employee so tipped. Even if they were in a pool agreement, the management would be required to disperse the tips to the employees. Keeping the tips is wrong.

[drachillix]

These people are bastards, plain and simple.

Have you worked there long enough to generate a W-2 and does it match up with your paycheck?

You can also call the IRS and request a copy of your witholding information/reported earnings to date and see if it matches your check stubs, there will be a small delay from payday to IRS reciept of your witholding but it should be within a week or two.

[bup]

There's no evidence here that the employees are being screwed. He's being paid above minimum wage. If he was never promised tips, why does he deserve tips? If the club had called it an 18% service fee instead of an 18% gratuity, or if it were just added to the cost of each item, would the employee suddenly be unscrewed?He's also not getting the tips above the 18% mandatory gratuity.

Besides the employees, the customers are being defrauded, because it's called a gratuity.

There's also the DoL link somebody provided that says tips go to employees.

[Frylock]

If the club had called it an 18% service fee instead of an 18% gratuity, or if it were just added to the cost of each item, would the employee suddenly be unscrewed?

Yes. If I ask for money, and say it is a donation for my kid's cancer (say my kid really had cancer) and I then use the money to buy a new computer instead, I have screwed over my kid. If I ask for money from the same person, and he gives me the same amount, but I had said "it's in order for me to buy a new computer," and I then proceded to buy that very computer, then my kid has not screwed over.

The only thing that made the difference between my kid being screwed over and not screwed over was the label I attached to the donation.

Similarly, if the money in question is called a "gratuity," then arguably the server has been screwed, while if it were called a "service fee" then the server would not be thereby screwed.

-Kris

[Cheesesteak]

He's not a little kid with cancer, he's an adult who accepted a job for $X/hr with no tips, and is getting $X/hr with no tips. He is getting exactly the amount of money he agreed to, but now he wants to get tips on top of it. AFAIK, people who get tips like waiters usually get paid a nominal hourly wage, he does not get a nominal hourly wage.

I don't hear him suggesting that he should get paid $2.25/hr plus tips, like every other waiter in the country, he wants his significantly higher hourly wage plus tips.

In my world, if you're an adult, and enter into an agreement which is clear and easily understood, then you can't claim you're being screwed if the other party holds up his end exactly as written and intended. There was no deception on the part of the club with respect to what he would be paid, they offered him $X/hr with no tips and pay him $X/hr with no tips. He is also a "host" not a waiter, so I don't even know if he would be eligible for tips if the tipping were conducted normally.

[Stringer]

My guess is Vestavia Country Club. Charles McCrary (President and CEO of Alabama Power) lives around the corner.

[gigi]

He's not a little kid with cancer, he's an adult who accepted a job for $X/hr with no tips, and is getting $X/hr with no tips. He is getting exactly the amount of money he agreed to, but now he wants to get tips on top of it. AFAIK, people who get tips like waiters usually get paid a nominal hourly wage, he does not get a nominal hourly wage.

I don't hear him suggesting that he should get paid $2.25/hr plus tips, like every other waiter in the country, he wants his significantly higher hourly wage plus tips.

In my world, if you're an adult, and enter into an agreement which is clear and easily understood, then you can't claim you're being screwed if the other party holds up his end exactly as written and intended. There was no deception on the part of the club with respect to what he would be paid, they offered him $X/hr with no tips and pay him $X/hr with no tips. He is also a "host" not a waiter, so I don't even know if he would be eligible for tips if the tipping were conducted normally.Right, and it's actually easier for the company (and employee) to just pay more and dispense with splitting up collected tips, etc. They can estimate how much gratuity money they expect to pull in and estimate how much extra they can pay over min-wage-with-tips rates.

[robcaro]

The amount of the tips you receive probably exceeds the increase in wages that you receive. So, the Country Club is earning a lot of money taking your tips. Go to the authorities on this one.

[A.R. Cane]

The OP indicates that the receipts show the service fee and the 18% gratuity, as well as additional tips, are definitely listed as such. This leads me to believe that there is some hanky panky going on w/ the accounting. I think this goes beyond the question of who is legally entitled to the gratuities and into the area of tax fraud.
Perhaps we have someone here who has done bookeeping in the restuarant/service industry and can lend their expertise?

[velvetjones]

Why not just charge $17 for the meal and dispense with the added 18% gratuity? Because they're not paying sales tax on the 18% or the $3?

Really, why add $3 service fee and 18% gratuity at all? Why not just charge $21 for your buffet?

And the additional tips that are written in.....I don't know how you could evey say that those don't go to the server.

Something definitely doesn't seem right but I'm not entirely convinced that the OP is entitled to part of the 18% or the $3. Tips that are written in are a different story but he said he's a host, not a server.

[Scuba Steve]

My guess is Vestavia Country Club. Charles McCrary (President and CEO of Alabama Power) lives around the corner.
Good guess. That's where I'm from originally (the city), but wrong club.

I don't hear him suggesting that he should get paid $2.25/hr plus tips, like every other waiter in the country, he wants his significantly higher hourly wage plus tips.
And I don't hear you decrying Hamas, so clearly you're a terrorrist? I would much rather make my $2.13/hour plus tips than this. Which is what I'm headed to do in another job.

In your big, grownup world, would you raise all of your prices 18% and tell your customers "it's not for me, it's for these poor, hardworking people you see every day"?

[Cheesesteak]

In your big, grownup world, would you raise all of your prices 18% and tell your customers "it's not for me, it's for these poor, hardworking people you see every day"?No, that's called lying to your customers, which is what I said it was from the very start. In my grownup world, I don't claim to be screwed when a deal I agree to is conducted exactly as I agreed it to be.

If you feel that $2.13 + tips is better, then go for it. That fact, in and of itself, does not make these people crooks. I think the deception of the customer is a bullshit move, and there may be 100 other reasons why they're sleazy scumbags, but they're treating you exactly as you agreed to be treated.

[Scuba Steve]

When I interviewed, they told me I'd be earning $7.50/hour, and a percentage of the tipshare. They only told me the day I started work that I wouldn't be getting that.

[Cheesesteak]

Well, that sure clears up the crook vs. non-crook aspect of the whole thing.

I'll happily classify them as crooks to you, their customers, and possibly the state of Alabama as well. When you get a new job lined up, go after them with both barrells.

[LemonPledge]

Your leverage here is with the club members, because they're the ones being misled. And it's their club.
If it were my club doing this, I'd be seriously pissed off that the club had been intentionally misleading me into thinking that I was giving a tip to the individual when in fact I was just giving more money to the club. I say "intentionally misleading" because that's the only reason to split out the line for an additional gratuity. Being a cynic experienced in the world of business, I might assume that the 18% and the $3 charge went to the establishment -- and then the wait staff gets a cut, or maybe not. But the additional line for a tip clearly says "here's where you can make sure Joey gets a little something extra for hustling when you wanted more iced tea."
Otherwise, why would anyone spontaneously add a few more dollars to their bill and just pad the club's bottom line for no reason? The club is misleading its own members and I don't think they'll take kindly to that.
I'd forget all the lawyers, government agencies and so forth, and instead I'd find a way to let the club members know. They'll either change the policy, or they'll just stop adding it to the bill and give you cash instead.

[Cervaise]

In my world, if you're an adult, and enter into an agreement which is clear and easily understood, then you can't claim you're being screwed if the other party holds up his end exactly as written and intended.It has to be a legal agreement. The clearest contract language in the world doesn't permit me to do something illegal to you. At one end of the scale, for example, you cannot sign an agreement that allows me to murder you. At the other end of the scale is something like this. As the cites to federal labor law have made clear, tips and gratuities go to the wait staff, period, end of story.

[Cervaise]

At one end of the scale, for example, you cannot sign an agreement that allows me to murder you.Clarification: While you can certainly sign the agreement, it doesn't give me the legal right to take your life. In this case, an agreement that basically states "I will not complain about your unambiguous violation of labor law" is not valid.

Incidentally, I really like the idea of contacting a club-member politician's election rival.

[Elendil's Heir]

Sounds to me like the management is ripping off the staff, and deceiving the clientele. A respectful but firm approach to the manager, an anonymous call to the local media or the Senator's opponent might be just the thing.

A few years ago, a writer for the Cleveland Plain Dealer had a very popular, much-talked-about column in which she exposed several local restaurants which kept the tips of the waiters and coat-check staff. Several embarrassed harrumphs later, the restaurants changed their policies. Sunlight really is the best disinfectant.

I'll be checking back on this thread. I'm very interested to see what comes next. Good luck, Scuba Steve!

[Cheesesteak]

It has to be a legal agreement. The clearest contract language in the world doesn't permit me to do something illegal to you. True, the question then would be "Is Scuba Steve considered a 'tipped employee' by the US Dept of Labor?" If he is, then the club is definitely doing something illegal.

The only definition I could find is A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. If you work somewhere that has a "no tipping" policy, and people shove money your way anyhow, does that make you a tipped employee?

[Excalibre]

There's no evidence here that the employees are being screwed. He's being paid above minimum wage. If he was never promised tips, why does he deserve tips? If the club had called it an 18% service fee instead of an 18% gratuity, or if it were just added to the cost of each item, would the employee suddenly be unscrewed?

If anybody is being wronged, it's the membership who is being told they are leaving a tip for the servers, when that is not the case. Legally (and morally) I don't think the servers have grounds for feeling wronged.
Do you have any evidence for your legal claims here? Or are you just guessing and then claiming your guesses have the force of law? Because actual legal evidence cited so far, even if it's a bit thin, doesn't seem to support you on this.


He's not a little kid with cancer, he's an adult who accepted a job for $X/hr with no tips, and is getting $X/hr with no tips. He is getting exactly the amount of money he agreed to, but now he wants to get tips on top of it. AFAIK, people who get tips like waiters usually get paid a nominal hourly wage, he does not get a nominal hourly wage.
You can't contract away your legal rights.


In my world, if you're an adult, and enter into an agreement which is clear and easily understood, then you can't claim you're being screwed if the other party holds up his end exactly as written and intended.
Historically, I think there's ample evidence that we are fortunate that your world is not the one inhabited by the rest of us.


Right, and it's actually easier for the company (and employee) to just pay more and dispense with splitting up collected tips, etc. They can estimate how much gratuity money they expect to pull in and estimate how much extra they can pay over min-wage-with-tips rates.
You have no evidence that the kid is being paid anything commensurate to what he would be if he were getting appropriate tips. So you're just talking out of your ass here.


If you work somewhere that has a "no tipping" policy, and people shove money your way anyhow, does that make you a tipped employee?
Interesting reasoning. Seems to me that under this thinking, if I hire someone for a job, and don't pay them at all, I'm in the clear. Because, after all, they're not my employee. If they were, they'd be getting a paycheck!

[Cheesesteak]

Historically, I think there's ample evidence that we are fortunate that your world is not the one inhabited by the rest of us.Indeed, it would be a shame if one agrees to be paid $7.50/hr for working and gets paid $7.50/hr. Obviously, you should be able to complain if such a terrible thing happens to you.

Since the OP has since clarified that he agreed to salary plus tips, it's kind of moot, they should have provided him with promised tips. My point here is that if he agreed to a salary without tips (as was my assumption from his OP), then he shouldn't be bitching about not getting tips.

I'd also like to know when agreeing to a fixed hourly wage is considered signing away your rights.

[xash]

Okay folks, lets get to work here. Which one is it? I'd be happy to send an "anonymous" note to local paper/tv. Just need the right name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cherokee Ridge Country Club Union Grove, AL
Cedar Creek Country Club Bessemer, AL
Lakeview Country Club Inc McCalla, AL
Golf Club at Cumberland Lake Pinson, AL
Cahaba Valley Country Club Trussville, AL
Marcum Country Club Empire, AL
Woodward Golf & Country Club Bessemer, ALRSSchen, we do not encourage such campaigns on this board. Please do not repeat this, or you will lose your posting privileges.

You have been warned.

-xash
General Questions Moderator

[MizGrand]

My bad - apologies all around!

[Monty]

He's not a little kid with cancer, he's an adult who accepted a job for $X/hr with no tips, and is getting $X/hr with no tips. He is getting exactly the amount of money he agreed to, but now he wants to get tips on top of it. AFAIK, people who get tips like waiters usually get paid a nominal hourly wage, he does not get a nominal hourly wage.

What you're referring to is not a nominal hourly wage. It's a minimum wage, established in law, for someone whose income from tips exceeds a certain amount. The employer and employee are completely free to agree to a higher wage than the minimum. They are not free to agree to a lower wage than the minimum.

[Monty]

The only definition I could find is If you work somewhere that has a "no tipping" policy, and people shove money your way anyhow, does that make you a tipped employee?
I'd imagine it makes you liable for termination for violating the company policy regarding tips. That violation would be you accepted it. I've worked at places where we employees were prohibited from accepting tips. The line we gave the tippers was, "Thank you for the offer; however, I cannot accept tips."

[SnakesCatLady]

I'd be wiling to bet that 95% of the members of the club do not know that the club policy is to take 100% of what is written on the check. When I worked at a country club, there was a 15% added gratuity; the server got 7.5% of it.

This club is robbing the members. I'm not saying the staff is being robbed as I don't know the pay/benefit scale. But the members are being robbed if they think they are leaving tips that are not going to waitstaff.

Is this specific to the OP because he's a host, or does this rippoff apply to all staff?

[indecisive1]

Is this specific to the OP because he's a host, or does this rippoff apply to all staff?
This is what I am wondering. Does the 18 percent gratuity charge go towards paying all the support people? Like bus-boys, hosts, kitchen help? Does the OP feel that they should get a cut of the actual tips that are intended to go to the server? Do the servers have the same wage arrangement?

[Scuba Steve]

Nobody gets the money. Not the servers, not the bussers, not me. Yes, the money does go to the management, and the management is ultimately who cuts my paycheck, but that doesn't justify this.

[Guinastasia]

Indeed, it would be a shame if one agrees to be paid $7.50/hr for working and gets paid $7.50/hr. Obviously, you should be able to complain if such a terrible thing happens to you.

Since the OP has since clarified that he agreed to salary plus tips, it's kind of moot, they should have provided him with promised tips. My point here is that if he agreed to a salary without tips (as was my assumption from his OP), then he shouldn't be bitching about not getting tips.

I'd also like to know when agreeing to a fixed hourly wage is considered signing away your rights.


Even then, it would still be unethical because the customers are assuming their money goes to the staff, not the bosses. Also, just because he gets minimum wage or above, if tips are allowed, that does NOT give the manager the right to take them. The managers are NOT entitled to tips.

[Number]

IANAL, but I have had an experience with getting a recalcitrant employer to come up with back pay.

When I interviewed, they told me I'd be earning $7.50/hour, and a percentage of the tipshare. They only told me the day I started work that I wouldn't be getting that.Do you have that first part in writing? If not, are there any other employees that would corroborate it? If you can establish that fact then it seems (in my admittedly inexpert opinion) that you have a very strong case.

How much money is at stake? If it's under $3,000 then you could take them to small claims court (http://www.alsp.org/articles.cfm?typeID=Know&ArticleID=ART040601100510). You wouldn't need a lawyer and it sounds like you have access to all the pertinent evidence -- the employment agreement, the DoL page, itemized bills which show the tipping structure, and your pay stubs. Just filing might be enough, as the club management could back down when they see that you are serious.

If the amount is over the threshold for small claims, or if there's any possible way they could make a counterclaim then you really need to get a lawyer.


I'm thinking you should send some anonymous letters out to some of the customers of this place.That's also a nice idea. The press might not care but the customers definitely will. They are the ones being deceived, and at the very least they will stop giving the additional tips.

[Blunt]

This may be a long shot, but I wonder if its actually the club itself keeping these extra tips, or maybe one or more managers just pocketing them for themselves. What I mean is, maybe it isn't exactly a case of the tips just being included with the rest of the bill and accounted for that way and all going to the club. Maybe someone (manager or supervisor) is taking the tip money without upper management's knowledge.

On one hand, this seems like it may not be the case because it sounds like the practice has been going on for a long time, and maybe board members are already aware of it.

On the other, it makes more sense to me that one or more supervisors have a scam going for personal benefit, rather than a big country club nickeling and diming their employees and customers in this way. Maybe its just me though.

Just a thought.

[Excalibre]

I'd also like to know when agreeing to a fixed hourly wage is considered signing away your rights.
When it involves not receiving the gratuities you are supposed to receive. Duh. Per the laws cited earlier in the thread.

Tell me, since I'm genuinely curious - what makes someone decide to invent some random personal prejudice and offer it up with the claim that it's some sort of legal principle? I'm just curious, since you're not the first to do it in this very thread, and it's not something I understand at all. Why do you assume that you are capable of deciding what the law is, when obviously you don't have any experience or knowledge of it?

[drachillix]

I think this goes beyond the question of who is legally entitled to the gratuities and into the area of tax fraud.

I talked to my mom today (current management with IRS), might want to try contacting the IRS and checking to see if your witholding to date matches what the restaraunt is reporting as your income. If they are keeping tips and reporting tips on your income the IRS would be VERY interested in looking into their accounting practices.

If you have any evidence that something like this is happening and you report it there are also potential rewards for you as well.

[doreen]

Why not just charge $17 for the meal and dispense with the added 18% gratuity? Because they're not paying sales tax on the 18% or the $3?

Really, why add $3 service fee and 18% gratuity at all? Why not just charge $21 for your buffet?

And the additional tips that are written in.....I don't know how you could evey say that those don't go to the server.

Something definitely doesn't seem right but I'm not entirely convinced that the OP is entitled to part of the 18% or the $3. Tips that are written in are a different story but he said he's a host, not a server.

He's certainly entitled to the additional tips. About the gratuity- that's a liitle less clear. I used to stay at a dude ranch which added a 15% service charge to the entire bill. It was pretty clear from the statement in the brochures that the service charge was to enable the ranch to pay the staff a higher wage. I imagine that the service fee was added separately so as not to make the dude ranch appear more expensive than competitors which did not have such a fee.

[Ficer67]

What about an anonymous letter to the patrons?

Excuse me sir or madam, did you think this is going to me? Or the club? Because the club is taking it from you and keeping it for themselves.

The fact that the club does not want its members to be aware of this practice gives you some leverage. Course if the patrons ask you, all you have to say is, "I am not allowed to discuss these things." And you are covered.

[indecisive1]

Nobody gets the money. Not the servers, not the bussers, not me. Yes, the money does go to the management, and the management is ultimately who cuts my paycheck, but that doesn't justify this.
Thanks for clearing up my question. If you have a new job lined up I'd wait till you start it to do anything about this problem. I sure wouldn't threaten your current employer that you will expose their questionable practices unless they pay you back tips. I don't know the legal definition of extortion or blackmail, but I think you'd be much better off doing this through appropriate legal channels.

And I hope that you do. The customers and the workers are being ripped-off and deceived.

[Eva Luna]

Alabama doesn't have any special labor laws, according to the dept of labor website. We follow the federal guidelines, and that's it.


Then why don't you call up the Feds (http://www.dol.gov/esa/contacts/whd/america2.htm#Alabama) and see what they think?

[Monty]

indecisive1: Aren't employees protected from retalitory firing if they expose ("blow the whistle") on their employer's illegal acts?

[Guinastasia]

indecisive1: Aren't employees protected from retalitory firing if they expose ("blow the whistle") on their employer's illegal acts?


They should be, although I don't know if I'd still want to work there-they could make it mighty unpleasant for you.

[hawksgirl]

I'm not seeing a problem with his pay, its that customers think they are tipping the staff and they aren't. THAT'S the part that looks wrong to me.

[Monty]

AFAIK, tips are part of the employee's pay. If the management is keeping the tips, the management's keeping the pay.

[Excalibre]

I'm not seeing a problem with his pay, its that customers think they are tipping the staff and they aren't. THAT'S the part that looks wrong to me.
The thing is, regardless of how well the staff is being paid (and $7.50 is not exactly a generous wage), the workers are entitled to the tips they are being given. At least under the law quoted earlier in the thread. Like I said, even if the workers agreed to such an arrangement in their ignorance, you can't give up your legal rights by signing a contract.

I have to say that I feel a particular distaste for a business, no doubt a rather well-off one, taking advantage of teenagers' ignorance to stiff them of what is rightfully theirs. The customers have the right to see their money given to the staff, and the staff have the right to see that money given them. Trying to separate the two halves of that, the giving from the receiving, makes little sense to me.

[Bob Ducca]

I've spent some time working in the hospitality industry, and many hotels do something like this:

All banquets are charged an extra 18% on food purchased.

This money is pooled together, and is split based on a "tip point." The head chef, banquet manager, bqt captains, etc - get a higher percentage than the grunts that wash dishes and set up the room and serve the food.

Based on your tip point, at the end of the pay period, the amount in the gratuity pool is divied up in a "per hour" basis. You are paid minimum wage + your "per hour" gratuity which varies based on the amount of money generated into the Gratuity Pool. Usually only $1-2 per hour, except around the holidays when XMas parties are in full swing.

I don't remember if this money was taxed as tips, or as regular income because of how it's paid out.

Seems to me, the OP is already being paid above minimum wage, and though it's shady for the club to not want its staff to tell the customers how they pay their employees (though, do any businesses want you discussing this sort of thing w/ their patrons?) - the money above Minimum Wage he's taking home probably makes up for the gratuities he thinks he's owed.

Would he rather get minimum + grat, or his higher wage? It's probably a wash.

[Excalibre]

Would he rather get minimum + grat, or his higher wage? It's probably a wash.
That strikes me as unlikely; most waitstaff I've known get considerably more than that. Besides, nobody can really guess - they're not keeping track the way they should be. If indeed he's getting the same as he would otherwise, then it's not a big deal. But what's the evidence he is?

[Monty]

From where I see, it doesn't matter about the druthers. The employer is keeping the tips. Now, unless the tipper designated the management as the tippee, then that's not exactly the nice thing to do.

[Cheesesteak]

Why do you assume that you are capable of deciding what the law is, when obviously you don't have any experience or knowledge of it?Obviously, I'm not. Why don't we ask Alfred B. Robinson, Jr. (http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSA/2005/2005_09_02_31_FLSA.htm) , Deputy Administrator at the US Department of Labor whether or not a fixed percentage gratuity automatically added to your bill is legally a tip? However, 29 C.F.R. § 531.52, (copy enclosed), distinguishes between a tip voluntarily paid by a customer and a mandatory charge imposed upon the customer. “Whether a tip is to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the customer.” Id. For example, “a compulsory charge for service, such as 10 percent of the amount of the bill, imposed on a customer by an employer’s establishment, is not a tip and, even if distributed by the employer to his employees, cannot be counted as a tip.” See 29 C.F.R. § 531.55(a) (copy enclosed). Furthermore, these charges “which become a part of the employer’s gross receipts are not tips for purposes of the Act.” Therefore, the 18% gratuity is not legally a tip, and doesn't factor into whether or not Scuba Steve is a "tipped employee". It also looks like there's precedent to adding those charges to the employer's gross receipts instead of distributing to the employee, so I doubt that is automatically illegal.

Don't agree? Take it up with the Department of Labor.

[Waenara]

Therefore, the 18% gratuity is not legally a tip, and doesn't factor into whether or not Scuba Steve is a "tipped employee". It also looks like there's precedent to adding those charges to the employer's gross receipts instead of distributing to the employee, so I doubt that is automatically illegal. Even if the 18% gratuity isn't a tip, I'd think that the additional tips some customers give would be considered a tip.

The fact that the management leaves an additional "tip" line on the bill (in addition to the gratuity/service charge), and that they don't give the additional tip to the staff, makes it seem to me that they're knowingly ripping off their employees for those tips.

[Excalibre]

Obviously, I'm not. Why don't we ask Alfred B. Robinson, Jr. (http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSA/2005/2005_09_02_31_FLSA.htm) , Deputy Administrator at the US Department of Labor whether or not a fixed percentage gratuity automatically added to your bill is legally a tip? Therefore, the 18% gratuity is not legally a tip, and doesn't factor into whether or not Scuba Steve is a "tipped employee". It also looks like there's precedent to adding those charges to the employer's gross receipts instead of distributing to the employee, so I doubt that is automatically illegal.

Don't agree? Take it up with the Department of Labor.
Um, they're keeping the actual tips as well.

You're really grasping at straws here, bud.

[Cheesesteak]

Even if the 18% gratuity isn't a tip, I'd think that the additional tips some customers give would be considered a tip.I think you're right.

[Cervaise]

You're really grasping at straws here, bud.But it's an upscale country club, so they can afford to use the flexy straws.

[Jeff Lichtman]

Obviously, I'm not. Why don't we ask Alfred B. Robinson, Jr. (http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSA/2005/2005_09_02_31_FLSA.htm) , Deputy Administrator at the US Department of Labor whether or not a fixed percentage gratuity automatically added to your bill is legally a tip?

This opinion letter answers a questions about whether, with a fixed gratuity that's passed on to the employee, the employee can be classified as a tipped employee for the purposes of minimum wage and overtime rules. The letter states that the employee cannot be classified this way under this scenario. It does not state that the employee isn't entitled to receive the fixed gratuity - in fact, the scenario in the letter assumes that the gratuity goes to the employee.

[Guinastasia]

That strikes me as unlikely; most waitstaff I've known get considerably more than that. Besides, nobody can really guess - they're not keeping track the way they should be. If indeed he's getting the same as he would otherwise, then it's not a big deal. But what's the evidence he is?


That and the fact that tips aren't even being divided up among the staff-the bosses seem to be pocketing everything.

And quite honestly, let's say they're doing NOTHING wrong, legally. Well, then the proper authorities will deal with it then. Right now, something looks shady-so what's wrong with checking it out?

[Scuba_Ben]

I checked the 5-in-1 Labor Law poster at my office today (it's right next to the coffee machine). Granted, it's a bit out of date, with a minimum wage of $4 and change, but I think the relevant point still holds:

According to that poster, if a tipped employee's cash wages plus tips do not add up to the applicable minimum wage -- not the tipped minimum wage but the standard minimum wage -- then the employer must pay the difference to achieve the minimum wage.

Whatever the current legalities may be, the situation smells to me of low ethics. But that's IMnsHO, not GQ.

[gigi]

According to that poster, if a tipped employee's cash wages plus tips do not add up to the applicable minimum wage -- not the tipped minimum wage but the standard minimum wage -- then the employer must pay the difference to achieve the minimum wage.He did mention that he receives more than minimum wage, so that's covered.


hijack - your sig reminds me of the Michael Peterson song:
I want to drink from your loving cup
Swear I'll never give you up
Steal all your kisses underneath the moon
I wanna lie here close to you look at what you made me do
Darling you're the reason why
I drink, swear, steal and lie

/hijack

[handsomeharry]

indecisive1: Aren't employees protected from retalitory firing if they expose ("blow the whistle") on their employer's illegal acts?
On that point I seem to recall that the laws/enforcement/technicalities on the "protection" laws make whistleblowing about as effective as a written resignation.
hh

[Scuba_Ben]

He did mention that he receives more than minimum wage, so that's covered.Good question for the OP: Scuba Steve, does the person in question make more than the standard minimum wage, or than the tipped-employee minimum wage?

hijack - your sig reminds me of the Michael Peterson song
/hijackNice song. It's probably the inspiration for the Diver's Toast, which I learned on a dive trip last year.

[Scuba Steve]

Sorry for the absence. I've been waiting on an e-mail from a fellow at the newspaper. He's helped out friends of mine before, but was out of town until Monday. Still no e-mail; I'll be making phone calls tomorrow to the newspaper, hoping anyone will do this.

Any ideas on how I should pitch this?

[Elendil's Heir]

...Any ideas on how I should pitch this?

Deceit. Hypocrisy. Fat-cat club management ripping off working stiffs. Hell, the thing practically writes itself! Seriously, I hope and expect he'll find it a pretty juicy story.

[Harmonious Discord]

You will have to start referring to management now as The Man. The Man is never on your side. Beware The Man.

[mhendo]

I'm not especially convinced that the members of the Club will be very sympathetic to the OP's cause. In cases like this, the upper-class members generally feel that they have much more in common with the Board and the Management of the Club than with the working stiffs who serve their dinner. I think that many of them probably won't give a shit where their 18% gratuity goes, and will be happy to live with the current situation rather than cause disruption in the running of the Club.

[muldoonthief]

Here's an article (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/9588410/detail.html) about a restaurant in MA (the famous Hilltop Steakhouse in Saugus) that was pulling a similar, but less blatant trick. On large parties, they were charging an 18% service fee, but only giving 14-15% to the waitstaff with the managers keeping the rest. Four waitresses who complained were fired as well. They lost the lawsuit, and now have to pay 2.5 mil back to the servers.

[Mr. Slant]

I'm not especially convinced that the members of the Club will be very sympathetic to the OP's cause. In cases like this, the upper-class members generally feel that they have much more in common with the Board and the Management of the Club than with the working stiffs who serve their dinner. I think that many of them probably won't give a shit where their 18% gratuity goes, and will be happy to live with the current situation rather than cause disruption in the running of the Club.

Naw.
A good % of the high middle upper class are control freaks; if they tell you do something just so, they'll FREAK if you do something just *like* so.
The moment one of the club members with this personality type tips $2 over the minimum expecting it to go to the server and it goes to the club instead, he'll acquire an intense desire to extinguish $400 cigars on the club manager or whoever thwarted his desires.
Granted, some of the members will be ambivalent, but they won't all.

[mhendo]

Here's an article (http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/9588410/detail.html) about a restaurant in MA (the famous Hilltop Steakhouse in Saugus) that was pulling a similar, but less blatant trick. On large parties, they were charging an 18% service fee, but only giving 14-15% to the waitstaff with the managers keeping the rest. Four waitresses who complained were fired as well. They lost the lawsuit, and now have to pay 2.5 mil back to the servers.The restaurant has posted a bullshit excuse rebuttal on its website (http://www.hilltopsteakhouse.com/newsitem/14/).