View Full Version : I'm going to ignore your documented evidence and expertise in favor of my own WAG
08-11-1999, 02:54 AM
Check out this thread:
In it, I answered why right-hand threads are threaded that way and why they're called "right-hand threads." I also explained the right-hand rule and how it applies to calculating torque. I drew conclusions based on my own experience and schooling (in my mind, "Duh") Not good enough for the teeming 5 or however many people didn't believe me. I then went on to provide documented evidence supporting my assertion. Even so, people who obviously have no clue are debunking the evidence I presented and going on to make statements based on their own wild-ass guesses and speculation. WHY?? Did I not make my point clear enough, or are these people just that dense?? (Actually, I find one member to be more of a troll based a number of posts I've seen by him.) This is not a rhetorical question.
I've noticed this sort of thing occurring numerous times in other threads. The "G-d" question I posed in GQ comes to mind. After Dex, Keeves, Rowan, and cmkeller presented evidence (very eloquently, I might add) supporting their answers, along with personal accounts, a poster still went on to speculate something along the lines of "It must be some religious fanatical thing." If someone has a background regarding the question at hand, and especially if they provide credible evidence supporting their assertions, then DON'T MAKE AN ASS OF YOURSELF BY SPECULATING OTHERWISE! I know I shouldn't let this get to me, but it's damn irritating.
C K Dexter Haven
08-11-1999, 07:52 AM
You're in good company, Stainger. Cecil did a column on the meaning of Kemo Sabee (from the old Lone Ranger show: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_061.html . You would think the explanation offered by the guy who wrote the original radio show was sufficient, but no, people still stick to the "wonderful" version that they heard from a friend. It is to laugh.
08-11-1999, 08:54 PM
strainger ,don't let me get to you.Sometimes, though an answer can get a bit technical.make that 'jargony', I Still don't get that right hand rule.
08-11-1999, 11:57 PM
CKDex, not to shmooze here, but you have a good mathmematical background (I suppose a PhD is adequate :D) and you are quite verbally adept. Nickrz and mr john have both expressed a sincere interest in figuring out what the hell I'm talking about, and I aim to please. I would greatly appreciate any input you have that would clarify or supplement my future posts in the "right-hand thread" thread. In that thread, I've outlined my challenges regarding presentation. I feel that you can help me out with these.
08-12-1999, 09:33 PM
Look strainger, I will spell it out for you one more time you dim-witted engineer. You know something, you are walking proof that an advanced degree don't have a damn thing to do with intelligence....
You were entirely correct. The right hand rule acts like a screw with threads that screw in as you turn it clockwise. Torque obeys the right handed rule in that the direction of the torque vector obeys the right hand rule of cross products. Since the screw described above obeys the right hand rule (turning clockwise moves it away from the turner) it is called a right-handed screw. HOWEVER: Righthanded screws did not become the standard way to thread a screw because of this rule. Torque does not offer any mechanical advantage. Torque does not make righthanded screws inherently better than lefthanded screws. If it did, it would disobey the law of conservation of energy. Since torque lies orthogonal to the direction of the applied force, there is zero force along the torque vector, as defined. The right hand rule of torque is not a physical phenomena, it is a mathematical convenience. Torque must run along the axis of rotation (since it must be orthogonal to the plane of rotation), but its direction is arbitrary. The right hand rule is chosen so that an instanteous force applied at a point on the positive x axis and parallel to the positive y axis has a torque along the positive z axis. All motion and force is in the x-y plane, the z axis is imaginary.
Jason R Remy
"One pill makes you taller, and one pill makes you small, but the ones that mother gives you don't do anything at all"
-- Jefferson Airplane White Rabbit (Slick, G. 1966)
08-12-1999, 10:08 PM
I always figured that the best Pit Topic would be about screwing, but I didn't expect THIS!!
08-13-1999, 11:47 AM
Screw u sly and with a left hand thread! Come on over to "street ell" for some real WAGing. Apparently there is no authority on the subject to screw the ell out of us 'practical enginners'.
Jay I been trying to get strainger to show me that "inherit advantage" I guess i am just not making myself clear to him. If you haven't posted that whole thing over there would you?( I got something 'stuck' in my copy and paste' and cant get it out! damn paste hardened up i guess) I respect the man's knowledge and expertise as well as every one else,and try to avoid serious personal attacks, but goldurn some of that 'proof' just makes my brain hurt. Some people got plenty of book smarts but don't ask um to MAKE a book for you.
Signitorily yours, Mr John
" Pardon me while I have a strange interlude."-Marx
08-15-1999, 08:33 PM
Whoa! I hope I didn't imply that there was a "mechanical advantage" to making right-hand threads that way! The only advantage is that it's a standard, i.e. you know which way the screw is going to go when you turn it. I think TheDude has explained a couple of things pretty well in the right-hand threads thread in GQ (a lot better than I did, IMHO). I've found a good source that may answer the question once and for all, so after this post, I'm keeping my mouth shut until I get a chance to check it out. Stay tuned.
08-20-1999, 10:59 AM
Sorry to bring this ugliness back to the top, but I was rereading the posts more carefully. Jayron saidSince the screw described above obeys the right hand rule (turning clockwise moves it away from the turner) it is called a right-handed screw.Yes yes yes yes yes!!! That's all I've been trying to say!! I admit, I don't know how many threads were right-handed pre-right-hand rule convention compared to post-right-hand rule convention (I've seen several sources saying that 98-99% of threads are right-handed now. My WAG is that there were less than that pre-standardization), although I have taken a personal interest (read: unhealthy obsession) in finding out. Basically, I need to find a technology history book whose audience has at least some knowledge of vector algebra, not an easy task as it turns out. I'll stop by the Engineering Library at ASU before rehearsal next Tuesday to see what they yield.
I apologize if I implied or stated anymore than what I wrote above in the RHT thread. My initial intent in posting there was to answer questions that other people had brought up, not necessarily the original OP.
08-20-1999, 11:31 AM
Since you brought it back up,strainge, i just been waiting for the original thread to come up in Gq, I aint goin there again till some new twist gets added. I am already screwy enough,and don't know which way to turn, I don't wanta go there and go totally nuts.( I still stand by my theory that it is easier to make right hand threads,NYAH!)
"Pardon me while I have a strange interlude"-Marx
08-20-1999, 01:12 PM
"Screw" you, mr john. I deliver a good "pitch," and you have to go and throw a "wrench" into things. What are you, some kind of a "nut?" You're really beginning to "torque" me off. A "hex" on you. The "moment" that I find the "right" answer, I'll post it in that "thread," and you'll see that I have a "head" for this sort of thing. What a "relief" that will be. ;)
I'll talk to you later. I gotta "bolt."
08-21-1999, 01:22 AM
Thanks for clearing everything up, strainger. After re-reading everything again, I realized that the two of us were talking about two unrelated issues, and not in conflict at all. I realize what occured was that SOMEONE asked if right handed screws offer mechanical advantage over left handed ones, and since you responded somewhat in the affirmative, I took that you were backing them up. It is clear now that you did nothing of the sort, and I apologize for any unseemly comments I might have made along the way.
BTW, since this is the BBQ pit: You're an idiot! :) :) :)
Just keeping in the spirit of the board...
Jason R Remy
"No amount of legislation can solve America's problems."
-- Jimmy Carter (1980)
09-09-1999, 10:45 PM
"Oh PUH-FUCKIN-LEEZE people...get a friggin' LIFE!!!!"
09-09-1999, 11:52 PM
Great, this friggin' thread is at the top again.
I won a bet with myself. I guessed that TheMagician had a total of 1 post on this MB. I was right.
09-10-1999, 12:33 AM
Is it just me, or have an awful lot of newbies shown up in the last couple of days?
college frosh playing with their new toys. We'll get one or two good ones. The rest will give up after a couple of weeks.
09-10-1999, 01:21 PM
I can't believe you guys are arguing about screwing....uh...well..wait a minute..maybe I can ;)!
09-12-1999, 05:38 PM
At the risk of being redundant..."Oh PUH-FUCKIN-LEEZE people...get a friggin' LIFE!!!!"
09-12-1999, 09:02 PM
I've always found it laughably ironic when someone posts a message saying that people who post to message boards should "get a life."
I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.
09-13-1999, 02:00 AM
Tracer, especially when they take the time to register specifically for the purpose of stating something so profound as ... well, you've read it twice already.
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