Treasure Hunters 7/17

[Otto]

Six minutes in and I'm already wishing Kayte was dead. But no more than Kayte herself I guess. I hear she's putting out a CD soon, "Kayte Fauxgal's Greatest Fits."

[lorene]

Oh, my ears!
Love her Dad's statement, "Well, after 24 years, we're pretty used to it..."

Are the producers of this show so deep that they are trying to indictate that escaping slaves might have had to choose between being free but leaving a loved one, and potentially not making it to freedom?

Too deep? Hey, it is hot here. My brain is loopy.

[Otto]

That is deep.

Six hour penalty for the Brown because of the injruy? The doesn't seem fair somehow. If they'd actively abandoned Keith they'd only have had a three hour delay.

Yet again I'd have been standing somewhere for days. I could've been staring into the mirrors forever without thinking of blowing on them.

[rockle]

Dude. Kayte Fogal seriously needs a nap, and a smiting. To paraphrase what Jase over on Big Brother said -- that noise is not from Jesus.

[rockle]

Six hour penalty for the Brown because of the injruy? The doesn't seem fair somehow. If they'd actively abandoned Keith they'd only have had a three hour delay.
Nope -- if they'd have actively abandoned Keith, they'd have had a 3-hour time advantage (relative to the other teams). The penalty for coming back was 3 hours.

[lorene]

I was hoping that, after finding the mask, Mt Fauxgal would hit her in the back of the head with a shovel and use one of the convenient, ready-made shallow graves.

No, of course I didn't really hope that. But I'll bet it at least crossed his mind.

[lorene]

By the way, did anyone else take the time between the Fauxgal's prayer and the mask-finding as proof that God goesn't give a rat's hiney about who finds a mask and who doesn't?

Nice juxtaposition of praying by the Fauxgals and the multiple f-bombs dropped by the Southies.

[rockle]

No, of course I didn't really hope that.
I did. Heh.

By the way, did anyone else take the time between the Fauxgal's prayer and the mask-finding as proof that God goesn't give a rat's hiney about who finds a mask and who doesn't?

Nice juxtaposition of praying by the Fauxgals and the multiple f-bombs dropped by the Southies.
Quoth God: "Nice try, Fogals, but if you really want your prayers answered? Become Catholic, and get a cute accent. Oh, and ditch the brat, why don'tcha?"

[Otto]

Nope -- if they'd have actively abandoned Keith, they'd have had a 3-hour time advantage (relative to the other teams). The penalty for coming back was 3 hours.
A distinction without a difference. Had they gotten to the boat and kept Keith, they'd have been delayed three hours. By having no choice but to lose Keith to continue, they lost six hours. Losing a team member to an accident cost them double the time keeping him would have. And had they cut him intentionally they'd have picked up three hours. So really, we're talking about a potential nine hour swing.

[Otto]

Oh, never mind. I said it backwards in my first post. Still seems very unfair, though.

[jsgoddess]

My god. She's the most annoying person in history.

I'll give you one guess as to which person I mean!

I'm rooting for everyone but the harpy.

And the geniuses actually did something smart. Wow.

[Otto]

Does anyone recognize the quote from the safe house quilt panel clue? "I believed that in America most all men loved freedom and would rather go to their grave free than live their life as a slave." I googled it but got no results.

[Robot Arm]

Six hour penalty for the Brown because of the injruy? The doesn't seem fair somehow. If they'd actively abandoned Keith they'd only have had a three hour delay.Remember, they got to skip the entire swamp. When Keith pulled a Barbaro they hadn't even found the first box yet, then they all went back to the plantation. If they'd kept on, they'd still have to find all the boxes, in order, take the boat ride, get to the safe house and search through the quilts for the last remaining clue. Instead they sat around for six hours. I think they came out ahead.

I liked the mirror thing. Simple once you know the trick, but I have no idea if I'd have figured it out.

Kayte Fogal must die.

[StarvingButStrong]

I was starting to think no one else was still watching.....


Just want to say that I thought these last two episodes were GREAT. An interesting challenge, good use of history, multiple mental puzzles plus two really hard physical tasks.

In truth, I thought the 'Underground railroad' challenge sequence made all the "Amazing Race" challenges from all seasons look trivial.


I hope this show gets good enough ratings to get a second season.

[Draelin]

"After 24 years, we're used to it." You've got to be kidding me. My kid throws a fit like that past age ten and it's straight into therapy, if not military school.

Did it appear to anybody else that first she was complaining about one leg, and then the other?

And my personal favorite moment was when one of the Southies said something to the effect of "Why are we waiting for them?"

I don't know if I'd have thought to blow on the mirrors. I noticed the "fREeDom" clue, but I probably wouldn't have put on the glasses. I definitely would have headed for the red quilts, though. (And as soon as I saw something that said "Charleston," I would have called my mommy and asked her to bring me clean clothes. :D)

I was kinda rooting for the Browns. That six hour time penalty was crap. Seemed to me like way too much time, but then, I don't know how long it took a team, on average, to get through the swamp.

[rockle]

"After 24 years, we're used to it." You've got to be kidding me. My kid throws a fit like that past age ten and it's straight into therapy, if not military school.
Yup. And I know one thing: If she were teaching my kids, they'd be going to a new school in the fall. There is something seriously wrong when your elementary schoolchildren are more mature than their teacher. She's totally Colin: "My thumb is broken! This is bullshit! I hate you!"

[Draelin]

She's totally Colin: "My thumb is broken! This is bullshit! I hate you!"
Coffee out the nose. A wonderful way to start the day. Thanks. :D

I'm glad the geniuses went back to get Sam. I have serious doubts about them to begin with, and I would have had to start a vendetta if they'd left Sam behind. Although, putting the glasses on was the first thing I've seen them do that even comes close to approaching genius level in anything.

So ... anybody know who the mask face is? This (http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-1058) is who I assumed it was last night--but that might be because his was the only name I could dredge up from the recesses of my memory. I think just because the name "Oglethorpe" amuses me, and did back in high school, too. It appears, though, that he didn't have much to do with the Revolution.

[rockle]

So ... anybody know who the mask face is?
Based on what I remember of the clue -- that it was a non-native-born Revolutionary War hero, and something about American soil -- and also based on the fact that Paris was pictured in the previews, I'll bet it's Lafayette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Lafayette). One of the only things I remember about early American history is that the Marquis had a bunch of dirt from Bunker Hill shipped back to France, so that he could be buried "in" American soil.

(I like European history much more than American history, for some reason -- perhaps it is all the blood and plague and Communism. There is a soft spot in my heart for the Commies, even though they're deranged crazy possibly venerally diseased wackadoos, for the most part.)

Oh, and last week (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=379098&highlight=treasure+hunters) I griped about why the Producers were bothering to hide the infrared nightvision cheap plastic sunglasses if they weren't needed for that particular task ... perhaps this is why? When I saw "FREEDOM" written thusly on the door of the safe house, I had a feeling it would amount to something. Although, to me, it suggested that they should examine the red squares on the quilts.

[Draelin]

Based on what I remember of the clue -- that it was a non-native-born Revolutionary War hero, and something about American soil -- and also based on the fact that Paris was pictured in the previews, I'll bet it's Lafayette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Lafayette). One of the only things I remember about early American history is that the Marquis had a bunch of dirt from Bunker Hill shipped back to France, so that he could be buried "in" American soil.
Oooh, didn't think of the French connection (heh). I bet you're right.

Although, to me, it suggested that they should examine the red squares on the quilts.
That's exactly what I thought--and we weren't wrong, the clues were all hidden behind red squares.

[Robot Arm]

During the digging, was I the only one thinking "what's your dirt doin' in Boss Keen's ditch?"


I saw the whole show, but didn't hear the last 20 minutes (long story); If anybody already made this joke, I like them.

Did I miss any good histrionics from Kayte, while someone else was doing the actual work, of course?

[Avarie537]

Did I miss any good histrionics from Kayte, while someone else was doing the actual work, of course?

Why yes, yes she did! While her dad was digging his eleventy-third hole, she kept telling him to go dig somewhere else. He said that he would, after he was done with the hole he was digging ... that had an "artifact" at the bottom! Damn good thing he didn't listen to her.

The way I see it, Mom and Dad Fogal put up with Kayte because they made her the way she is - at least somewhat. So, to admit that their daughter is a horribly whiny wench would reflect poorly on them.

[Otto]

Based on what I remember of the clue -- that it was a non-native-born Revolutionary War hero, and something about American soil -- and also based on the fact that Paris was pictured in the previews, I'll bet it's Lafayette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Lafayette). One of the only things I remember about early American history is that the Marquis had a bunch of dirt from Bunker Hill shipped back to France, so that he could be buried "in" American soil.
It's definitely Lafeyette. One of the portraits they showed on-screen is the same as the one from the Wikipedia article (it's also on the stamp toward the bottom).

[Ben Gates]

It's definitely Lafeyette. One of the portraits they showed on-screen is the same as the one from the Wikipedia article (it's also on the stamp toward the bottom).

No way, dude. It's totally one of Lafeyette's men:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Pu%C5%82aski

Fort Pulaski... killed in the Battle of Savannah... rumored to have been buried nearby but the body's never been found... they were digging for PULASKI!

From the article

According to several contemporary witnesses, including Pułaski's aide-de-camp, he was buried at sea. A long-standing rumor, however, has it that the wounded Pułaski was actually taken to Greenwich plantation near Savannah, where he died and was buried. In 2004, an eight-year examination of remains buried at the plantation ended inconclusively.

--Ben Gates

[jsgoddess]

They said the dead guy died in 1834.

[Ben Gates]

Did they? I missed that if they did.

[ElvisL1ves]

Did I miss any good histrionics from Kayte, while someone else was doing the actual work, of course?Yep. While Dad was doing all the work, Mom asked Princess to hold the flashlight for him. Her cry: "I hate this job! I don't want to hold a flashlight! [stompstompstomp]". Dad's and Mom's faces were silently saying "Please turn the camera off so we can go upside her head with this shovel, okay? Please do that for us, Mr. Cameraman?"

Then there was her doing nothing in the theater except insist constantly that the mirrors were a distraction. Even Mom said on-camera that "if she'd just have shut up for a little, Dad could have figured that one out a lot sooner". Give Mom credit for not actually getting in Dad's way on this show, at least. Kayte? I just wonder what she's thinking as she watches back. Maybe it'll do her some good.

I was expecting the Miss USA's to provide the drama-queen quota for this show. But they're all as gung-ho as anyone, despite their spell of exhaustion during the digging challenge. They pulled it back together and got it done.

Gotta bet on Air Force to win - they're both the smartest and the luckiest team so far. Digging up the mask in 10 minutes? Come on now.

[Otto]

No way, dude. It's totally one of Lafeyette's men:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz_Pu%C5%82aski

Fort Pulaski... killed in the Battle of Savannah... rumored to have been buried nearby but the body's never been found... they were digging for PULASKI!
Nope. Definitely not Pulaski. Not even close.

[Draelin]

Yep. While Dad was doing all the work, Mom asked Princess to hold the flashlight for him. Her cry: "I hate this job! I don't want to hold a flashlight! [stompstompstomp]".
Inside Casa Drae, the reply to that was "Then shut the ^$*# up and you can dig." I almost feel sorry for Brad--however long they were digging, he did all the damn work. I say "almost," because then I remember that no matter how much she grates on him, he's partially responsible for her turning out that way.

[FlightlessBird]

The Fogals are turning into Chip and Kim with an extra dose of Colin. He does all the work, she stays out of his way giving encouragement, and Kayte screams at things.

I think after 5 hours doing anything I would be so happy to finish the task, but I noticed that no one seemed to get the idea to take shifts to rest. We kept seeing two people standing and one person digging, or one person standing, and two people diggindg, one with their hands. If I heard that the people were doing something for 5 hours, I'd start immediately in on prepping for the long run. One digger, one spotter and one rester who will be the next digger and run in short shifts like 10-15 minutes. In 5 hours(4.5), each would have only dug for 1.5 hours. And lastly, I cannot believe that there wasn't a way to figure out where to dig. I was kinda hoping the Genuii would have showed up and figured something out. Kind of a let down for this show.

Go Southies, Go AirForce

[Robot Arm]

I had a college professor who did consulting work examining outdoor crime scenes for the local sheriff's office. He showed us some of the tricks he used, like keeping track of when particular species of trees lost their leaves, so, if you knew when the crime took place, you could pick up the right leaves and bring the area back to how it had been. Ground that has been distrubed is different than the ground around it. The staff of the show must have dug holes to bury the masks. And when those are filled in, no amount of stomping around is going to compress the dirt as much as the undisturbed earth around it. First thing I'd have done is look for areas where the ground was a different color, or poke around with the point of the shovel looking for soft spots.

It may not have been entirely luck that the Junior Birdmen picked the right spot.

[jsgoddess]

First thing I'd have done is look for areas where the ground was a different color, or poke around with the point of the shovel looking for soft spots.

It may not have been entirely luck that the Junior Birdmen picked the right spot.

Maybe. But if I were digging the holes for TV production, I'd have a big old, er, dirt moving thingie, clear the whole area down a few feet, stick the masks in the dirt, and cover them up.

I don't mind digging holes, but messing with their heads would be more fun.

[Otto]

The even scarier thing about Kayte is that she's a teacher. From the Team Fauxgal Family website (http://www.teamfogal.com//html/meet.shtml), which invites you to "Meat" [sic] the Fogals:
After graduating from high school, I attended my dad's alma mater, California State University at Fullerton. I graduated with a degree in Child Development and then went on to get my teaching credential.
Ironic that she'd have a degree in Child Development since her own development is so obviously arrested.

I was expecting the Miss USA's to provide the drama-queen quota for this show. But they're all as gung-ho as anyone, despite their spell of exhaustion during the digging challenge. They pulled it back together and got it done.
That's 'cause they're hardcore.

I wonder if the casting people put the beauty queens in thinking they'd be good for a meltdown or two, and are now disappointed. Other than their gaffe with the clue bundle last week they've been overall pretty solid Racers Hunters and I'm kind of rooting for them.

[rockle]

No way, dude. It's totally one of Lafeyette's men ... Fort Pulaski... killed in the Battle of Savannah... rumored to have been buried nearby but the body's never been found... they were digging for PULASKI!
I have also heard this theory bandied about. To me, it's plausible, but I don't know. For starters, I've never heard of him. And while I am admittedly ignorant of much American history, I'd heard of Lafayette before.

(A wholly unscientific poll of all the people in my department returned almost 0% recognition on Pulaski, too, except for one guy who thought the town in upstate NY where he goes fishing might be named for Pulaski -- but Pulaski, NY is pronounced differently. I got more hits on Lafayette [~60%], but I also work very close to Valley Forge Park, so we could have picked up some history lessons via osmosis or something.)

Also ... why Pulaski? How do you segue to him? Would people know he was buried in Savannah? I think the Lafayette connection makes a lot of sense, because there is a lot of Masonic-style mystery and symbolism surrounding a lot of this game, and both Lafayette and George Washington were known Masons. Lafayette and Washington were also good friends (Lafayette named one of his sons Georges). So there is a logical connection between the two men, which the upcoming tasks in France seems to support.

Then again, this Hunt sent teams from Montana to Boston for ... an overnight at a B&B? So who the hell knows. Could be anyone. (Some people on teh intarweb are saying the death mask is Napoleon's, but since 99% of those people can't even spell Napoleon correctly [e.g., "Napolean," which would make him a guy from Napole, I guess], I tend not to trust them. Then again, I'm a snarky snob, so.)

[jsc1953]

You're kidding...I just assumed that the mask was that of Casimir Pulaski. I'll be damned.

Kayte Fogal is what you get when you raise kids to value self-esteem over good manners. OK, that sounded just a wee bit crotchety....

I can't believe how long some of these tasks take (using TAR as my baseline). And at one point a few weeks back, one team was like 8 hours behind the team ahead of them...and didn't LOSE! WTF?

[jsc1953]

0% recognition on Pulaski, too, except for one guy who thought the town in upstate NY where he goes fishing might be named for Pulaski -- but Pulaski, NY is pronounced differently.

Yeah, but Lafayette, IN is pronounced LAY-fet, Cairo, IL is pronounced KAY-row and Berlin, CT is pronounced BUR-ln. So don't trust the locals.

[Draelin]

Yeah, but Lafayette, IN is pronounced LAY-fet, Cairo, IL is pronounced KAY-row and Berlin, CT is pronounced BUR-ln. So don't trust the locals.
Don't forget Noo-fownd-land, NJ. :)

I think (even though I haven't even checked out the linked articles) that Lafayette is definitely the better choice--if only for the reasons rockle cited. There's a decent chance that anybody who paid attention in American History will at least recognize the name Lafayette, but I was suprised to hear we even had a Fort Pulaski.

[rockle]

So don't trust the locals.
This is true: here in PA, we don't even all say "Lancaster" the same way. Or "creek," for that matter. (I'm a "crick"-er, myself.)

[FlightlessBird]

UPDATE: I knew the digging wasn't random! Here (http://www.teammissusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53) in MissUSA's blog:Speaking of rhyme or reason though...you know how stars were a big part of the whole episode? One in the quilt, ones on the flags, ones of the map that led us to the dig, etc.? Well, the pattern in which to dig holes was in the shape of a star. (note: NO ONE knew that the dig pattern was in a star shape, so it was surprising when we found out the next day) I want to go listen to the robot's clue again and see if there was a hint in the clue. But now I have a question, weren't there 6 masks? a 6-pointed star? hmmm

[Robot Arm]

How many of the clues on this show have been complete wooshes? There was that map with the anamorphic picture of Mt. Rushmore that nobody noticed. Only one team used the glasses to find the clue in the quilt. The masks were buried in a star shape, and nobody noticed. If I were one of the writers on this show, and had come up with such deviously subtle puzzles, I'd be a little annoyed that everyone was getting through on brute force and dumb luck.

[Lamar Mundane]

At least now we are down to teams that have an actual shot at winning this thing. Some don't have much of a chance, but it is possible to imagine a scenario where any of the remaining teams could win.

I think the Browns and the Hanlons are two of the worst teams/contestants in the history of reality TV. The Hanlons wandered around like a kid with ADD in a video game parlor, unable to concentrate on any one thing longer than thirty seconds, and at one point drove 100 miles out of their way to get a hamburger! I also don't think they solved any clues on their own.

The Browns, while seemingly a nice bunch of guys, simply had no shot. Overweight, slow, afraid of water and prone to injury is not the resume of a reality TV champion. Add in the inability to read a map and you have a recipe for losing. When you get eliminated almost immediately, then get put back in the game only to come in second last and then dead last, maybe you weren't a good candidate for the race.

I don't have a lot of hope for the "geniuses" going forward. Assuming they are much smarter than the AF team and the ex-CIA, both fairly sharp teams, I don't see a quiz on quantum mechanics or an SAT test being required to move on in this game. Plus they have slow guy.

[rockle]

But now I have a question, weren't there 6 masks? a 6-pointed star? hmmm
There could have been one mask at the center, and then another at each of the points.

[lorene]

Why yes, yes she did! While her dad was digging his eleventy-third hole, she kept telling him to go dig somewhere else. He said that he would, after he was done with the hole he was digging ... that had an "artifact" at the bottom! Damn good thing he didn't listen to her.


Didn't she also start out by saying that he should dig deep but not wide, then change and tell him he should spread out and not go deep?

WhatEVER. Stomp. Sigh.

[jsc1953]

Or "creek," for that matter. (I'm a "crick"-er, myself.)

That's just adorable. I didn't think anyone said that outside of a Ma & Pa Kettle movie.

;)

[rockle]

That's just adorable. I didn't think anyone said that outside of a Ma & Pa Kettle movie.

;)
Were Ma & Pa Kettle Pennsylvania Dutch? Because I am, and that's my problem. I even know what the word is, and I still say it wrong. It's sad, really, and it's probably part of the reason why I had to give up a lucrative career in broadcast journalism for ... whatever the hell it is that I do for a living these days. Le sigh.

[Tangent]

I even know what the word is, and I still say it wrong.

Hmmm... I grew up learning--while tromping through woods and pastures following Dad or Grandpa--that a creek and a crick are two different things.

This article by one of my favorite humorists explains the difference pretty well. (http://www.finefishing.com/1flyfish/humor/howtofishcrick.htm)

[Flutterby]

I can somewhat sympathize with Kayte, because I did do a five day hike when I was in worse shape than I am now and was a complete and utter whiny bitch about it too. Pretty much like her, only I like to think I wasn't quite so bad. (Bad, but not as bad as she.)

I'd like to think I'd be holding up better than she at the moment if our places were reversed though.

My goodness girl! Try to remember the camera man that's hanging around you and that this is being broadcast on tv!

I wonder how many parents will want her as their children's teacher after watching her be so whiny..

[jsc1953]

[QUOTE=rockle]Were Ma & Pa Kettle Pennsylvania Dutch? QUOTE]

Taking the question at face value...they were some kind of generic hillbilly. Actually, they were characters in the movie The Egg & I, who got spun off into their own series of movies. But before that, they were characters in the book of the same name, which was a semi-factual memoir, and set in Washington state.

[rockle]

Hmmm... I grew up learning--while tromping through woods and pastures following Dad or Grandpa--that a creek and a crick are two different things.

This article by one of my favorite humorists explains the difference pretty well. (http://www.finefishing.com/1flyfish/humor/howtofishcrick.htm)
That article actually explains a lot. I grew up around cricks as the writer defines them, so my "ignorance" is justified.