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SoMoMom
09-13-2000, 08:22 AM
Please, pardon me for any spelling mistakes. (Feel free to correct them.) I'm going to ask this question before my 7yo does. She was watching a show on Tutankhamun in which they went on and on about this letter that his queen sent to the king of the Hitites asking for one of his sons to marry her after King Tut died. Then last night I was taping a show on Nefertiti for my daughter and they said that she had sent the letter after Akhenaten died. I know that isn't going to slip by her, especially after the big deal they made of it on the show about Kind Tut.

So what's the best explanation?

SoMoMom
09-13-2000, 08:23 AM
:o Of course, that's King Tut.

lucie
09-13-2000, 11:45 AM
It was Tutankhamun's widow who wrote the Hittite king requesting he send one of his sons for her to marry, in order to avoid being forced to marry Ay, the old vizer who is the chief suspect in Tutankhamun's death.

Here's a link you might want to show your daughter explaining the whole mess:

http://home.rmci.net/gwoods/TTClub/ttstories/Tutankhamun.html

SoMoMom
09-13-2000, 12:04 PM
lucie, you opened up a new can of worms with this one. In the documentary on Nefertiti they said that she was co-ruler with Akhenaten. That story says that the woman to rule Egypt before the time of Tut was someone's mother.

I bet she might like reading that though.

Aglarond
09-13-2000, 12:35 PM
SoMoMom, you are correct. Nefertiti sent the letter to the hittites after Akenaten died. This is before Tutankhaten changed his name to Tutankhamun and took power. Nefertiti died before Tutankhamun did. They found him, but if I recall correctly, they never found Nefertiti's body. Hope that helps.

SoMoMom
09-13-2000, 01:40 PM
No, I'm not correct because I don't know anything. ;)

The show on Nefertiti says that they think they know where to look for her, but they are waiting for an OK from the Egyptian gov't. Don't ask me who "they" are. :rolleyes:

Aglarond
09-13-2000, 02:25 PM
"They" are a research group most likely funded by a large museum. In the 'olden' days, a lot of expeditions were funded by private citizens praying for vast wealth, but nowadays museums tend to pick up all the tabs. The Egyptians have a group(can't remember the name) devoted to the preservation of the archaeological sites, and you have to petition this group for permission to dig. There are a lot of theories about where she might be buried, but nobody's really sure, nor have they been able to prove anything. I know they've done a lot of ground sonar type stuff, but that's proved to be pretty much useless, and IIRC, this preservation group hasn't given permission to excavate any new ares in over 50 years. Given, it's been a while since I studied this stuff, so they may be digging again, now.

lucie
09-13-2000, 04:50 PM
Here is another page stating that it was Tutankhamun's widdow, the daughter of Akhenaten, who sent the letters requesting a husband to the Hittite king.

http://publish.uwo.ca/~charring/egypt/19nouemp.htm

I haven't yet run across any reference to Nefertiti writing the letter. Aglarond, can you get me a link? I'm starting some study on the Hittites, and this is a fairly major incident, so I'd like all the info I can get on it.

mipsman
09-13-2000, 08:13 PM
I had the privilege of visiting Hattusha in May. All of my sources say it was Ankhesenamun, the widow of King Tut, who wrote the letter to Suppiluliuma. Lucie, if you want to talk about Hittites, count me in.

Aglarond
09-13-2000, 08:48 PM
OK. I did some research, and not coming up with anything definite, I called my old college professor who taught me all of this. He was teaching us one version. Apparently, there are two schools of thought, resulting from a confusion of dates.

One, the oldest and most used theory, is that the letter was written by the widow of King Tutankhamun after his death. Tutankhamun had left no heirs, so Ankhesenamun(not sure of most popular spelling) had to find someone to marry. She sent a letter to the Hittites asking for a husband, but he never made it. She ended up choosing Ay to rule. This is the first I've come across this theory, but it seems to be very popular.

The latest theory is that the letter was written by Nefertiti, who was going by the name Nefernefruaten at the time. She changed it shortly thereafter to reflect worship of Amun, along with Tutankhaten. She sent the letter, but nobody ever arrived. She held power with Pharoah status, even though she was a woman. I'm not completely sure of all the details of her status and could be wrong on that one. She died less than a year later, which is when Tutankhamun officialy took power. He didn't live for very long. Ankesenamun, after the completion of Tutankhamun's tomb, took Ay as a husband. IIRC Ay was responsible for getting the tomb ready, though I can't find a site for it.

Whichever is true, Ay had married Nefertiti/Ankesenamun before they even knew a Hittite was on his way, possibly before he was even sent. I've heard some speculation that Ay was responsible for him not making it, but there's no historical evidence for this. I'll let you know if I find anything else. It looks like you're ok with your original theory, though. Sorry about the confusion.

Aglarond
09-13-2000, 08:54 PM
Sorry, I forgot to add. Part of the confusion stemmed from the idea that Nefertiti, at one point or another, was going by one of like 6 names. That and an apparent attempt to wipe Akhenaten out of the history books created a bit of a gap and extra confusion. I'm inclined to believe that it was Ankhensenamun after hearing both theories, but it's nice to have both sides.

Northern Piper
10-01-2000, 12:58 AM
Anyone who's interested in this issue may find The Murder of Tutankhamen by Bob Brier a fun read. He doesn't agree with the theory that Nefertiti could have written the letter, because she predeceased Akhenaten. He says the letter was written by Ankhesenamen, the daughter of Akhenaten by Nefertiti. Ankhesenamen had been married to Tutankhamen, the son of Akhenaten by his second wife, and wrote the letter after Tutankhamen died.

The thing I found amazing is that the text of the letter has been preserved, in a Hittite chronicle called "The Deeds of Suppiluiuma as told by his son Mursilis II." It reads:
But when the people of Egypt heard of the [Hittite] attack on Amka, they were afraid and since, in addition, their lord Nibhuruiya had died, therefore the Queen of Egypt, who was Dahamunuzu, sent a messenger to my father [the Hittite king] and wrote to him thus: "My husband died. A son I have not. But to thee, they say, the sons are many. If thou wouldst give me one son of thine, he would become my husband. Never shall I pick out a servant of mine and make him my husband! ... I am afraid!

Brier explains that one of Tutankhamen's royal names was Neb-kheperu-re, which the Hittites would have transliterated phonetically as "Nibhuruiya." He theorises that "Dahamunuzu" is a Hittite transliteration of "Ta Hemet Nesewt," the Eqyptian for "The King's Wife."

The Hittite king was so surprised by this request, coming from the Egyptians, the Hittites' main enemy, that he called a council to discuss the proposal. We have the minutes of that council:
When my father heard this, he called forth the Great Ones for council [saying]: "Such a thing has never happened to me in my whole life!" So it happened that my father sent forth to Egypt Hattusa-zite, the chamberlain, [with this order]: "Go and bring thou the true word back to me! Maybe they deceive me! Maybe [in fact] they do have a son of their lord! Bring thou the true word back to me!

Some months later, Hattusa-ziti came back, bringing a messenger from Egypt with him, Lord Hani, who had a second letter from the Egyptian Queen, upset that the Hittite King had not sent her one of his sons:
Why didst thou say "they deceive me," in that way? Had I a son, would I have written about my own and my country's shame to a foreign land? Thou didst not believe me and hast even spoken thus to me! He who was my husband has died. A son I have not! Never shall I take a servant of mine and make him my husband! I have written to no other country, ontly to thee have I written! They say thy sons are many: so give me one son of thine! To me he will be husband, but in Egypt he will be king." So, since my father was kindhearted, he complied with the word of the woman and concerned himself with the matter of a son.

Lord Hani then put the case to the Hittite king, and we have his speech:
Oh my lord! This [is...] our country's shame! If we had [a son of the king] at all, would we have come to a foreign country and kept asking for a lord for ourselves? Nib-hururiya, who was our lord, died: a son he has not. Our lord's wife is solitary. We are seeking a son of our lord for the kingship in Egypt, and for the woman, our lady, we seek him as her husband! Furthermore, we went to no other country, only here did we come! Now, oh our Lord, give us a son of thine!

Finally, the Hittite king sent one of his sons, but the clay tablet records that "they killed him as they led him there," sparking a punitive Hittite raid.

Brier's theory is that after Tut's death, leaving no heirs, the Vizier, Ay, aspired to be Pharaoh, even though he had no royal blood. Since Ankhesenamen was the daughter of the Pharaoh Akhenaten, any man who married her would become Pharaoh. But Ankhesenamen did not want to marry Ay, the "servant," and so wrote to the Hittite king for a royal prince to marry her and become Pharaoh. Presumably, the Egyptians had no desire for a Hittite to become Pharaoh, hence the murderous attack on the Hittite prince as he neared Egypt. Ay then married Ankhesenamen and became Pharaoh.