Iraqi Army Mutiny (South Vietnam Rerun)

[Count Blucher]

I was reading the Washington Post today and I came across an interesting article. It’s in the 'A' section if anyone wants to read it or pick up a copy...and it’s about how the British were handing over a base to the new Iraqi government's army. It was supposed to be a triumph for US policy, with big brass bands beating drums about the triumphant re-emergence of the military of the government of Iraq. The problem was, it just didn't happen that way.

The local militia, hostile to US/British forces, moved in to loot the base after the British pulled out ...and the Iraqi Army (whom the base had just been handed) were supposed to defend it.

(Quote is from section A of the 08/25 edition of The Washington Post; my access is not shareable by link)

The withdrawal sparked wide-scale looting at the base and then intense clashes late Thursday between Iraqi army forces guarding the camp and unknown attackers, a military intelligence official said. The volatile situation worsened when the 2nd Battalion of the Iraqi army's 4th Brigade mutinied and attacked a local military outpost, said the official, who spoke on condition that his name not be used. :smack: :smack: :smack:

Yes....the Iraqi Troops...the ones we've been spending Billions to train and to do what Bush says. They Mutinied!!! They decided they'd rather fight with the local warlord than defend their democracy. Jay-sus, I haven't heard stuff like this since I was a kid and the South Vietnamese abandoned their guns and tanks and ran screaming like little girls ahead of the advance of the North Vietnamese regulars. Yes, there's a corollary there; the one thing in common is the US foreign policy. Still, that was 35 years ago. Have we as a nation learned nothing since then...?

Yes, I pit the Iraqi Army; the one that we paid to train and inspire. But I also pit the people who made all this possible. I pit this war, in all of its stupidity. I pit the politicians sending friends and family over to Iraq to die essentially for nothing. I pit the stupidity of these same politicians for taking failed Vietnam strategies and trying to apply them in the 21st century Iraq, all while on my tax-dollars.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

And we've got what? -- another two-plus years to go of "Stay the course"?

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Dude.

Nobody else is mentioning it.

Nobody!

Not one news source.

I think the Post pulled this one out of its posterior.

[threemae]

I think the Post pulled this one out of its posterior.

Yeah, that, or some dude names Bosda.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060825.wiraq25/BNStory/International/home

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/25/iraq.main/

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

OK.

I googled "mutiny" & "iraq", & only got articles on a US officer who is being court-martialed for not going.

I should have tried more.

[rjung]

Dude.

Nobody else is mentioning it.

Nobody!

Not one news source.
Damn that liberal media!

[threemae]

No problem. Sorry, I didn't mean to be overly curt, I just wanted to make it clear that this incident most certainly did happen.

[GIGObuster]

From USA today:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted_x.htm
"The handover of the Camp Abu Naji was coordinated with the Amarah authorities 24 hours in advance," said spokesman Maj. Charlie Burbridge.

"It was understood that the governor was likely to use the camp as a police training camp," he said in an e-mail Thursday, adding that Iraqi forces had secured the base after the British soldiers left.

Burbridge said Thursday that British authorities could not comment on early reports of looting "because by that stage the camp was the property of the Maysan authorities and Iraqi Forces were in attendance."
The Houston chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4142020.html
Camp Abu Naji, 200 miles southeast of Baghdad, had come under almost daily attack when the Britons were in control, an indication of the hostility for foreign troops.
Raise your hands whoever heard that before, this is the first time I heard of this. Most of the reports I see are from the area controlled by the US. The worrisome thing is that this are mostly Shiites, the ones that were supposed to be glad we liberated them.

Looking around, it seems that this is officially a change of tactics from the part of the British. Nothing wrong with that, Og knows a change of tactics was needed even if the sorry leadership does not want to hear about it. But, I am getting the feeling that the stated reason is not quite right.

"The Americans believe there is an inflow of IEDs and weapons across the border with Iran," said Burbridge, referring to improvised explosive devices, in a telephone interview from Basra. "Our first objective is to go and find out if that is the case. If that is true, we'll be able to disrupt the flow." He said the second goal was to train Iraqi border guards.

The lack of intelligence that did not see the lack of control that came is worrisome IMO, All that is leading me to believe that the Shiites, that are considered to be "allies", are beginning to seed misinformation. Good luck in the marshes.

[glee]

According to a respectable English newspaper there was no fighting or mutiny, just looting:

A British soldier said that as the last men drove away, they saw pick-up trucks being filled with equipment worth tens of thousands of pounds.

...

The Iraqi and British governments had described the transfer of Camp Smitty on July 30, a base outside the southern city of Samawah, as a key step in handing control of security back to Iraqis.

But the looting casts doubt on official insistence that coalition troops are only withdrawing when local authorities are ready to assume their responsibilities.

...

Muthanna, a sparsely-populated province bordering Saudi Arabia, is considered one of Iraq's most peaceful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/23/wiraq23.xml

[Princhester]

No, no, no, Count Blucher, one must not draw parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. Must not. Look into my eyes. There are no similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. None. Never ever say this again.

[Jophiel]

The latest and greatest verson from the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501315.html) backs away from the mutiny charge, now saying it was a "rumored" mutiny and that the point of contention was Iraqi forces not wanting to be deployed to Baghdad. Per the article:Iraqi army Lt. Ali Kareem of the 4th Brigade, 10th Division, said some members of his unit began to mutiny Thursday after learning that they were being deployed to Baghdad the next day to support a security plan in the capital. He said troops in the brigade's 2nd Battalion -- mainly members of Shiite militias such as Sadr's Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade -- started to fire guns and mortars in protest because they thought the American military was "trying to get rid of them." The situation was resolved only after the brigade commander said the protesters did not have to deploy to Baghdad

[RTFirefly]

Here's some bits from the story in today's WaPo:

Looters Ransack Base After British Depart
Failure of Iraqi Soldiers to Prevent Assault Raises Worries About Security Transfers

BAGHDAD, Aug. 25 -- Armed looters ransacked an abandoned British base in southern Iraq on Friday as Iraqi soldiers guarding the camp stood by and watched, heightening concerns that Iraqi troops are still ill-equipped to take control of security from U.S.-led coalition forces.

A crowd of as many as 5,000 people, including hundreds armed with AK-47 assault rifles, attacked Camp Abu Naji and hauled away window and door frames, corrugated roofing and metal pipes, despite the presence of a 450-member Iraqi army brigade meant to guard the base.

"The looters stole everything -- even the bricks," said Ahmed Mohammed Abdul Latief, 20, a student at Maysan University. "They almost leveled the whole base to the ground."
So I guess now it's "as we stand down, they'll loot up."

Lotsa progress since April 10, 2003.

Maj. Charlie Burbridge, a British military spokesman, said the Iraqi army maintained full control of the camp, even during the looting, and had managed to eject the thieves by early evening. Was this before or after they stole the bricks?

But the inability of the Iraqi soldiers to prevent widespread looting in one of the country's calmest provinces, as well as the reported mutiny of a local army brigade, left doubts about whether U.S.-led forces will be able to hand over security to the Iraqi government anytime soon. No shit, Sherlock.

The article also notes in passing that the Iraqi Sufis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism) have declared jihad and are joining the insurgency.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

OK, I was half wrong.:(

But, I was also half right.:)

Eventually, I will either become 100% right, or senile.
<sigh>

[elucidator]

You guys just don't see the good news in all of this! The entreprenuerial spirit is alive and well in Iraq!

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

You guys just don't see the good news in all of this! The entreprenuerial spirit is alive and well in Iraq! Huh. You may have a point there.

Just think of the construction boom, what with all the building material that's now available.

[Master Wang-Ka]

*sigh*

Well, we always knew you couldn't legislate morality. Apparently, you can't legislate a system of government, either.

No matter how bad you want someone else to accept it.

Of course, our government still thinks you can legislate morality, so....

[Voyager]

Maj. Charlie Burbridge, a British military spokesman, said the Iraqi army maintained full control of the camp, even during the looting, and had managed to eject the thieves by early evening.


Was this before or after they stole the bricks?



That's the funniest thing, in a sick way, I've read all day. I swear I remember seeing a movie where a clueless leader, standing in the middle of a riot, shouts out "I'm in complete control!"

Give that Major a job in the White House Press Office - he'll fit right in.

[Contrapuntal]

No, no, no, Count Blucher, one must not draw parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. Must not. Look into my eyes. There are no similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. None. Never ever say this again.Except for the whole, you know, quagmire thingy.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.

~ Karl Marx

[elucidator]

Hey, they built schools! Jihadist madrasa, but still....

[Princhester]

Except for the whole, you know, quagmire thingy.

Bad, bad Contrapuntal. Back to re-education camp for you. This is not the quagmire you are looking for. There is no quagmire. Things are going swimmingly in Iraq.

[wring]

Bad, bad Contrapuntal. Back to re-education camp for you. This is not the quagmire you are looking for. There is no quagmire. Things are going swimmingly in Iraq.
how do we reconcil this w/Rummy's "I never painted a rosy picture"?

do none of these folks realize their words are being, ya know recorded by the crowd of reporters they're talking to?

[Princhester]

Of course they realize that. But they don't care because they know that the occasional quiet admission will go unnoticed by the majority, as long as the propaganda machine churns out the counterfactual bullshit.

[OttoDaFe]

Besides, reporters are, pretty much by definition, part of the "reality-based" demographic. To those like Rummy who can create a different reality by force of will, recorded "facts" are mere bagatelles.

[glee]

'the Iraqi army maintained full control of the camp, even during the looting, and had managed to eject the thieves by early evening'

This reminds me of some Iraqi spokesman who used to appear on TV and say US tanks had not reached Baghdad. Even when one appeared behind him...

:rolleyes:

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Ah, Baghdad Bob (http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/). Happy days :)

[RTFirefly]

That's the funniest thing, in a sick way, I've read all day. I swear I remember seeing a movie where a clueless leader, standing in the middle of a riot, shouts out "I'm in complete control!" There's a scene toward the end of Animal House, where a guy (Niedermeyer?) is standing in the middle of the road shouting something like, "All is well, remain calm!" in the middle of the panicked chaos after Delta House has managed to turn the homecoming parade into total anarchy. Nobody pays the least attention to him.

I bet that's what you had in mind.

I'm wondering whether we're doing anything more effective than that in Iraq right now. Or maybe, per Abbie Hoffman's formulation, we're exercising our free speech over there by yelling "Theatre!" in a crowded fire.

[wring]

There's a scene toward the end of Animal House, where a guy (Niedermeyer?) is standing in the middle of the road shouting something like, "All is well, remain calm!" in the middle of the panicked chaos after Delta House has managed to turn the homecoming parade into total anarchy. Nobody pays the least attention to him.

I bet that's what you had in mind.

that was "Chip" (I think that was the characters name) played by KEvin Bacon (that, I'm sure of). great scene.

[Tuckerfan]

*sigh*

Well, we always knew you couldn't legislate morality. Apparently, you can't legislate a system of government, either.

No matter how bad you want someone else to accept it.

Of course, our government still thinks you can legislate morality, so....
Well, why don't we try giving them our Constitution? I mean, we're not using it, so why shouldn't we let someone else try it out?

[RTFirefly]

Well, why don't we try giving them our Constitution? I mean, we're not using it, so why shouldn't we let someone else try it out?Good point! If only our troops weren't tied down in Iraq, think of all the nations we could invade in order to force them to take this unwanted document off our hands!

[Scissorjack]

American foreign policy in Iraq continually reminds me of Terry Jones in Erik The Viking, who, as he stands atop the last scrap of dry land on his island kingdom which is rapidly sinking beneath the waves, calls out cheerily, "It's all right, it's not happening!".

[Damuri Ajashi]

Well, why don't we try giving them our Constitution? I mean, we're not using it, so why shouldn't we let someone else try it out?

look at the list of countries with constitutions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_constitutions

Just having a constitution is not enough.

[Tuckerfan]

look at the list of countries with constitutions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_constitutions

Just having a constitution is not enough.
Whooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Triskadecamus]

So, jumping in and saying, with no information whatsoever, that the Washington Post obviously made it all up is only half wrong.

No wonder Bush doesn't worry about looking like an idiot.

Tris

[elucidator]

His appearance is the least of our worries.

[Squink]

A Second Mutiny (http://www.nola.com/newsflash/iraq/index.ssf?/base/politics-10/1156800581232650.xml&storylist=iraq): General says Iraqi soldiers refuse duty

about 100 members of a battalion in the 4th Brigade, 10th Iraqi Army Division, who were serving in the southern Maysan province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maysan) , refused to deploy to Baghdad.
"What's tough, right now, is the Iraqi army, for the most part, is a regionally based unit," Pittard told Pentagon reporters. "The majority of this particular unit was (Shiite.) And they felt, or the leadership of that unit and their soldiers felt, like they were needed down there in Maysan."

[Triskadecamus]

But don't worry, as soon as these guys are ready to protect their democracy, it will be "Mission Accomplished!" Again. Really, this time. I mean it.

Tris

[Zoe]

...and ran screaming like little girls ...

Those weak and cowardly females again...

(It's a good thing they generally aren't allowed in combat in the US; we have too many troops already.)