The Unsolved Murder Thread!

[Eve]

The Jack the Ripper thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=386683) and the upcoming Black Dahlia movie got me feeling we needed another Great Unsolved Murders thread, replete with wild-assed guesses. Feel free, of course, to add your own murders.

Well, not your own murders; you know what I mean.

William Desmond Taylor (http://www.angelfire.com/az/Taylorology/). I think Mary Miles Minter's mother did it, both on the available evidence and on the fact that it's fun to say "Mary Miles Minter's mother."

Thelma Todd (http://www.usc.edu/libraries/archives/la/scandals/todd.html). I think it was a plain old boring accident: she came home from a night of partying and fell asleep in the car with the motor running. The Mob does not kill you by putting you in a running car in an unlocked garage; they put a bullet in your head.

Lizzie Borden (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/borden/index_1.html). I used to think the maid, Bridget Sullivan, might have done it, but the more reading I do, I think it was indeed Lizzie.

As far as the Black Dahlia and Jon-Benet, I'm going with "I have not the slightestidea," except that the same person probably did not kill them both.

"Your serve, Maude."

[Tapioca Dextrin]

As far as the Black Dahlia and Jon-Benet, I'm going with "I have not the slightestidea," except that the same person probably did not kill them both.


That's because it was a suicide pact. Duh!




I think I'm going to hell for that one

[jimmmy]

My Takes FWIW

Thelma Todd:
An Accident. Drunk as a monkey she reached her car, but passed out after turning it on.

Wm. D. Taylor:
I’m going to say Margaret Gibson's (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317098/) confession was genuine. She had been involved ibn othe rbad lawbreaking schemes


Borden:
I think that Lizzie gave her mother 40 whacks and when she saw what she had done…

How about:
Marilyn Monroe:
My Take: Marilyn Accidentally overdosed. Her housekeeper discovered this about midnight and called her Doctor - either her personal Physician or her Psychiatrist (probably the former). This Doctor had negligently prescribed drugs w/o consultation (or perhaps Marilyn didn't tell him she was seeing the Psychiatrist and/or that he had prescribed anything). Whatever, he had prescribed the barbiturates that killed '62's Jessica Simpson/ParisH/Lindsay Lohan rolled into one. He cleaned the scene and may have made some calls. About 4:30 AM he told the House keeper to call the police. A Conspiracy Theory/mystery death is born.
-----

Black Dahlia - No Idea - Having said that a 48 Hours really gave a big maybe about an LA Doctor - but I dunno ....

Jon-Benet: Based on what I know, I would not vote to convict the Ramseys in a court of law as a Jury member. But the Boulder DA says all the evidence is in the public domnain, and they are the best suspects that I can think of - by far.

[What Exit?]

That's because it was a suicide pact. Duh!




I think I'm going to hell for that one
I think you are right

How about the mystery of the Mary Celeste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste#Speculation_on_the_Mary_Celeste)?
I have always thought a mutiny and mass murder the likeliest answer.

I have no opinion on the murders you mentioned Eve, The Borden case is the only one I am familiar with and I do not know enough to make an educated guess.

Jim

[Little Nemo]

Another unsolved mystery which will be getting new media attention is the Zodiac killings, with the movie Zodiac due to be released in January.

[Rodgers01]

The Nicole Brown/Rod Goldman murders are still officially unsolved. But I have an idea who might have done it...

[What Exit?]

The Nicole Brown/Rod Goldman murders are still officially unsolved. But I have an idea who might have done it...
It was Cato, right?
I never trusted him.

[Dr. Rieux]

It was Cato, right?
I never trusted him.
Are you implying that the Green Hornet is covering up for him?

[What Exit?]

Are you implying that the Green Hornet is covering up for him?
Green Hornet? I can't keep up with these bad guys, I thought it was the Green Lamppost or something like that.

Jim {Ok, so he spells it Kato}

[JThunder]

The Nicole Brown/Rod Goldman murders are still officially unsolved. But I have an idea who might have done it...
Who? Who?

[Cunctator]

The solution to the infamous (at least in Australia) Bogle/Chandler deaths/murders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogle_chandler) in 1963 is supposedly going to be revealed this week in a television documentary.

[Lamar Mundane]

Due to all the recent JonBenet Ramsey hysteria, and the fact that I live at ground zero, I have been recently exposed to this (http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/) website.

Caution, this link has links to disturbing, but not graphic, crime scene photographs.

[gonzomax]

Disalvo the Boston Strangler is now supposed to be innocent. TV show gave him pretty good alibis.

[Aholibah]

Always been a bit partial to the Hall-Mills murders (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/mills/1.html), myself. I incline to the Willie Stevens/Mrs. Hall theory of the crime.

[dropzone]

Mary Miles Minter's mother did it. She was one scary old battleaxe. It's a credit to Taylor's unrestrained libido that he was doing both her and her hot daughter.

So, you don't think Lizzie and Bridget were Um-Friends, Mom found out, and they did her in plus Dad because he'd probably disapprove of murder? I've never seen a crime scene photo of Mom (a situation I expect to be corrected within the next 24 hours) but Lizzie killed Dad several times over.

Whoa! Bogle had as many as five affairs going at once? Never question the horniness of physics nerds! Where he found five female physics groupies in the early sixties is a wonder, though. And in underpopulated Oz? I think he was making it up.

[dropzone]

As for Thelma Todd, why was the garage door closed with her behind the wheel? Huh? I run circles around you logically!

But yeah, the Guys typically make no effort to make it look like an accident. The victim is not the person who is supposed to take a lesson away but if the others who have transgressed the unwritten law can justify it away as an accident they didn't learn much of a lesson, did they?

[PBear42]

The Princes in The Tower (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/the_princes/1.html). I said Edward did it, i.e., ordered it done, though it's possible a supporter did it on his own hook. Yes, the Tudors doubtless dressed up the story for publicity purposes, but no other theory I've seen covers the facts. But I admit that Edward's guilt has not been (and probably cannot be) conclusively proven.

[Cunctator]

The Princes in The Tower (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/the_princes/1.html). I said Edward did it, i.e., ordered it done, though it's possible a supporter did it on his own hook. Yes, the Tudors doubtless dressed up the story for publicity purposes, but no other theory I've seen covers the facts. But I admit that Edward's guilt has not been (and probably cannot be) conclusively proven.Edward? Do you mean the boys' father? He had already died. The two suspects usually suggested are Richard III (the boys' uncle) or Henry VII.

[PBear42]

D'oh. Typo.

[Lobelia Overhill]

The Nicole Brown/Rod Goldman murders are still officially unsolved. But I have an idea who might have done it...

I seem to remember seeing a CGI animation of 'what happened that night' that IMO "proved" it wasn't one person acting alone...

'course that could just have been a crap animation...

[PBear42]

FWIW, I saw a CGI animation demonstrating how it COULD be done. Not sure how any demonstration could prove that it couldn't.

[FRDE]

The Princes in The Tower (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/the_princes/1.html). I said Edward did it, i.e., ordered it done, though it's possible a supporter did it on his own hook. Yes, the Tudors doubtless dressed up the story for publicity purposes, but no other theory I've seen covers the facts. But I admit that Edward's guilt has not been (and probably cannot be) conclusively proven.

Have you read 'A Daughter of Time' by Josephine Tey ?
- an interesting book

My take is that the demonization of Richard III was a bit odd

[Annie-Xmas]

Mark Fuhrman's book "Murder in Brentwood" gives a good accounting of the Nicole/Ron/OJ bruhaha, even if it is not imparital. The evidence against OJ was stronger than is generally thought (how did Goldman's blood get into the Bronco).

Say what you will about Fuhrman, his next book "Murder in Greenwich" helped open the unsolved Martha Moxley murder, and led to the conviction of Michael Skakel.

[Zsofia]

What about Buckingham, with or without Richard's permission?

[Wee Bairn]

How about the pizza delivery guy with the bomb around his neck?

ANd Lord Lucan's family.

[Zsofia]

What about Buckingham, with or without Richard's permission?
Obviously that was in reference to the princes in the Tower.

[PBear42]

FRDE: Have read a little about Tey's book, but never read the book itself. As for the demonization being odd, in what way? Henry had seized the throne. Demonizing the fellow he displaced makes sense to me. Note, btw, that More's account was not published during his lifetime. But that Shakespeare would use it makes sense also. After all, he was writing during Tudor reigns. Good politics AND good theatre. Two out of two ain't bad.

Zsofia: Buckingham with permission is merely a variation on the accepted view. Without permission, though possible, has difficulties. Access to the princes, for one thing. Also, acting contrary to Richard's wishes would have been risky, and Buckingham would have had no way to be certain what Richard's response would be. And, I have a hard time seeing why Richard would have covered up for Buckingham (or any other just-trying-to-help actor), since the deed placed him in the position of appearing to have killed the princes.

[Leaffan]

Geroge Reeves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Reeves) - The original TV Superman.

[Eve]

Geroge Reeves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Reeves) - The original TV Superman.

What's your theory? Mine's "suicide."

[Duckster]

I do not believe the dingo did it.

[PBear42]

Leaffan: Geroge Reeves - The original TV Superman.Eve: What's your theory? Mine's "suicide." Presumably referring to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Reeves#Controversy).

[Evil Captor]

Well, we THINK we know who killed Kennedy, but I have always had problems with mob-connected Jack Ruby coming along and oh-so-conveniently capping Oswald before he could talk. It's just a little too much like a standard cleanup operation.

[Cat Fight]

So, you don't think Lizzie and Bridget were Um-Friends, Mom found out, and they did her in plus Dad because he'd probably disapprove of murder? I've never seen a crime scene photo of Mom (a situation I expect to be corrected within the next 24 hours) but Lizzie killed Dad several times over.

Pic of stepmom Abby (http://www.frpd.org/images/lizzie/Photos/mrsborden.jpg). From what I've read in The Cases That Haunt Us (http://www.amazon.com/-Cases-That-Haunt-Us/dp/0671017063/sr=8-1/qid=1157566560/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8619579-4731213?ie=UTF8&s=books) and another book I can't recall, I'm quite sure Lizzie did it but do not think the maid was involved. You've got to love the cops ignoring a soaking bloody dress because they thought it was from a "flea bite" (apparently a euphemism for menstrual blood).

[Frank]

The evidence against OJ was stronger than is generally thought (how did Goldman's blood get into the Bronco).
I don't think anyone doubts that the evidence was strong. Problem was, the only competent people in the courtroom were behind the defense table.

[Frank]

The Cleveland Torso Murders (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/kingsbury/index_1.html), which ruined Eliot Ness. I believe that Dr. Sweeney was the culprit.

[dropzone]

Pic of stepmom Abby (http://www.frpd.org/images/lizzie/Photos/mrsborden.jpg). Thank you! She's GOOD 'n' dead.

[ivylass]

Mark Fuhrman's book "Murder in Brentwood" gives a good accounting of the Nicole/Ron/OJ bruhaha, even if it is not imparital. The evidence against OJ was stronger than is generally thought (how did Goldman's blood get into the Bronco).



IIRC, the judge threw out a bunch of evidence because it was not obtained correctly, or the defense wasn't notified in time, or something like that. One of them (I think) was the fact that carpet fibers from OJ's Bronco were found on Goldman.

[Governor Quinn]

Not technically a murder, but I have come to one of two determinations as to the fate of Justice (not, as often called, Judge) Joseph Force Crater (http://www.americanheritage.com/people/articles/web/20060805-joseph-force-crater-new-york-tammany-hall-supreme-court.shtml):

1) In advance of the Seabury hearings into New York City corruption, he fled the country. This would explain the fate of the contents of his safe deposit boxes and court files, and (possibly) why it took a while to report his case.

2) He was murdered because he knew too much that could be helpful to Seabury, possibly after having been tricked into believing that he would flee the country. This also explains the court file and (to a lesser extent) the safe deposit box issues, as well as why (unlike similar cases of fleeing the country)

[Frank]

The recent letter re: Crater seems believable. The wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Crater) summation is pretty accurate.

On August 19, 2005 authorities revealed they received a letter written half a century before by Stella Ferrucci-Good. In it, the woman identified a location near West Eighth Street in Coney Island, Brooklyn, at the current site of the New York Aquarium, where she claimed the judge was buried under the boardwalk. Moreover, the letter identified as Crater's killers her husband Robert Good, NYPD officer Charles Burns, also bodyguard of Abe Reles of Murder, Inc., and Burns's brother Frank, a cab driver.1

Police confirmed that skeletal remains had been discovered at that site in the 1950s. Modern DNA techniques, not available in the 1950s, would make it an easy matter to determine whether any particular set of remains might be those of Judge Crater. However, the bones discovered were almost immediately reburied in a Potter's Field on Hart Island, New York, among hundreds (if not thousands) of other unmarked and unidentified remains, and it would now be a daunting task for anyone to find those bones among so many.

[Annie-Xmas]

The murder of Bob Crane (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/bob_crane/1.html) remains unsolved.

And some people believe Nancy Spungen wasn't killed by Sid Vicious.

[spingears]

Jon-Benet: Based on what I know, I would not vote to convict the Ramseys in a court of law as a Jury member. But the Boulder DA says all the evidence is in the public domnain, and they are the best suspects that I can think of - by far. I heard the analysis of the ransom note by an ex fbi profiler on Fox news. He stated the points of analysis but refrained from drawing any conclusions.
I am fairly convinced that it was a family affair.
Find and read the analysis and draw your own conclusions. Don't have link, sorry to say.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Sam Sheppard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Sheppard)

Well, technically, he was the accused murderer, but it's still officially unsolved.

[wonder9]

I think you are right

How about the mystery of the Mary Celeste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste#Speculation_on_the_Mary_Celeste)?
I have always thought a mutiny and mass murder the likeliest answer.
Jim

I was fascinated by this case when I was younger. So I followed the many conjectures over the years. What makes WAYYYYY more sense than mutiny or mass murder was the theory that the alchohol that was carried on board was the key element. The idea that the cargo was responsible for the tragedy seemed mundane. Here are several cites for that thinking.
http://www.readyed.com.au/Sites/celeste.htm
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmaryceleste.html] towards the bottom
http://www.e-referate.ro/referate/Aa_sea-faring_mystery2005-03-18.html


Folks getting off the boat, because they think the danger is ON the boat, and then coming to grief in a small, ill-equipped life boat...I can see that happening. And it explains a lot of the spooky evidence.

why can't I embed the links in text? What am I doing wrong? I used to be able to do that...

[Leaffan]

What's your theory? Mine's "suicide."
Don't know Eve, obviously..... But it sure doesn't sound like suicide to me........ Too many questions....

[What Exit?]

I was fascinated by this case when I was younger. So I followed the many conjectures over the years. What makes WAYYYYY more sense than mutiny or mass murder was the theory that the alchohol that was carried on board was the key element. The idea that the cargo was responsible for the tragedy seemed mundane. Here are several cites for that thinking.
http://www.readyed.com.au/Sites/celeste.htm
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmaryceleste.html] towards the bottom
http://www.e-referate.ro/referate/Aa_sea-faring_mystery2005-03-18.html


Folks getting off the boat, because they think the danger is ON the boat, and then coming to grief in a small, ill-equipped life boat...I can see that happening. And it explains a lot of the spooky evidence.

why can't I embed the links in text? What am I doing wrong? I used to be able to do that...
The Embedded link format looks like this without the spaces near the brackets. [ URL=http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmaryceleste.html]Embedded links[/URL ]
Thanks for the links, I am off to read them.

Jim

[tashabot]

My mom hates OJ, but doesn't think he did it. I think that's weird. Anyway, she thinks he was there the night of the murders and may have even seen them get taken out, and that the person involved knew he knew - and that he wasn't talk because of his kids.

I dunno how sound that theory is, because I was pretty young when the whole case came out, and I didn't like OJ so I didn't care if he got convicted or not, and therefore did not watch the proceedings.

However, despite the fact that I was rather young when JonBenet Ramsey was murdered, I always thought this scenario fitted:

The dad was touching her. He, for some reason, always gave me weirdo pedophile-vibes. So my theory is that the dad was doing stuff to her, and the mom found out. Mom never struck me as being right in the head, either, so my guess was that instead of being upset for the sake of her child like a normal mom was, she got jealous and murdered the daughter to focus Dad's attentions back to her. Dad just covered it up because he didn't want to get busted as a pedophile.

Recall that I was about eleven or twelve years old when JonBenet was murdered, but this is just what made sense to me at the time. It still does today, though.

~Tasha