Kids today. . .

[Trunk]

So, Nicholas Kristoff has been writing about the genocide in Darfur for a while now. In the interests of giving the story a little youth appeal, he decides to hold a contest, the winner of which will travel with him across Africa, and blog in the New York Times.

He chose a graduate student in Journalism to accompany him. A chance of a lifetime.

As he wrote of this journey on Sunday,

We’re leaving tomorrow for Equatorial Guinea. It’s a backwater that has fascinated me since I first traveled through Africa in 1982 and my Lonely Planet guidebook said about it: “We’ve never heard of any travelers going there, so we have no details.”

Wow. What an adventure. What a learning experience. How psyched would you be to be going to Africa with a writer from the New York Times, and get to blog on the Grey Lady's website.

So, I'm anxiously looking forward to the 23 year old winner's first blog entry today. What must she be thinking heading off to a place where Lonely Planet had "never heard of any travelers going."

I present to you a graduate student in journalism. . .

http://parks.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=16#comments

Her fucking goddamn playlist. A snippet:

7. Telegraph Canyon, “You and Jane”
This is my cousin in Forth Worth’s band. He’s not afraid to veer away from the standard verse/chorus formula.

I thought the generation behind me was supposed to listen to louder music, do crazier drugs, have crazier sex. What do they do? They text each other, make myspace pages, play video games, and listen to emo. How did they get so fucking lame?

No fucking wonder the most interesting thing she had to share on the brink of a journey of a lifetime is what's on her fucking iPod.

Jesus Christ, their fucking parents are doing more drugs than them. (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060908-120425-9076r.htm)

[Eonwe]

That link requires one to be a Times Select member.

I agree that generally younger folks feel unable, unwilling, or unworthy to opine thoughtfully about anything, unless it's about themselves. It's sad that a grad student in journalism isn't using this oportunity to create something worthwhile.

But this is truly the age of self-importance, where everyone has their own MySpace profile, and what music you have on your new iPod is the important topic of the day.
[/26 year old crumudgeon]

[Clothahump]

I thought the generation behind me was supposed to listen to louder music, do crazier drugs, have crazier sex. What do they do? They text each other, make myspace pages, play video games, and listen to emo. How did they get so fucking lame?

No fucking wonder the most interesting thing she had to share on the brink of a journey of a lifetime is what's on her fucking iPod.



As long as the little brat stays off my lawn.....

[Trunk]

That link requires one to be a Times Select member.
Sorry.

It starts out with this. . .

How about opening up my blog with what I’m listening to as I head to Africa?

Then has a top-ten list. I cited one gem. Another. . .

10. Ciara, “Get Up”
She’s such a great dancer, and when I listen to her music, I feel like a great dancer, too!

Man, I wonder if Kristof is rethinking his decision right about now.

[/26 year old crumudgeon]

My problem is that I don't REALLY feel like a curmudgeon. I feel like the people I know who are 50 are cooler than the people I know who are 20. How the hell does that happen?

Do college kids even stay up past midnight anymore? Someone please tell me they do.

[Bryan Ekers]

He's hip!

He's cool!

He's 45!

[Duke of Rat]

"We finally got here, this place doesn't seem too exciting, lots of poor looking people. I haven't even seen a mall yet, I hope they have a Banana Republic, I sooo don't want to have to shop at The Gap."

[Merijeek]

"I had to sit next to a black guy on the plane. His elbow kept bumping mine. It was gross. The clothes he was wearing were so last year. Eew"

-Joe

[if6was9]

Why, when we were kids, we didn't have my spaces, or the internets, or tv or radio. We had a barrel hoop and a stick! AND WE LIKED IT!

*hikes up britches*

[davenportavenger]

Some of the best travel journals are written by people who started out very naive about the cultures they were about to experience. Look back at this journal in a few months. If there is no change in the writer then yeah, there's cause for complaint. But this isn't really any different from, say, a nineteenth-century English noblewoman with narrow viewpoints going to Africa and finding her life totally changed by the experience. Isn't that part of travel writing, seeing how the writer changed? And isn't it more interesting to read something by a "typical teen" about to experience Africa for the first time than someone well-schooled in the culture? Hopefully this experience will be very transformative for her. (I admit that her playlist leaves something to be desired.)

And I know that the main reason that I don't use drugs is because I'm afraid of getting caught. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I like having a job and not having a criminal record. I'm always up past midnight though.

[Smeghead]

I'm not entirely clear on this, but the blog entry in question was made as the trip began, yes? Perhaps it would be worthwhile witholding judgment until we see what the student writes at the end. I mean, if they come home and the blog is still this bad, that would be shameful. But to me, what's been written so far just proves that this chance of a lifetime has gone to someone who despertately needs it.

[Roonwit]

I feel like the people I know who are 50 are cooler than the people I know who are 20.

We are. :cool:

(As long as they stay the hell off our lawns, of course.)

How the hell does that happen?

I submit that the aforementioned journalism student has provided the answer to this question.

The Information Age gave us the ability to share our every thought with everyone in the world, and it's just soooo hard to be concerned with trivial shit like politics and national affairs (or traveling in Africa) when the whole world is waiting to hear what's on our iPods.

Like, duh. You just don't understaaaaand because you're old, dude. ;)

[Trunk]

You know --

Actually I had a post typed up that maybe -- just maybe -- Kristof was doing exactly that. . .finding someone who really does need an eye-opening experience.

Whether the girl is a co-conspirator in that, or a pawn to Kristof's machinations, I'm not sure.

Either way, young people should still do drugs.

And I know that the main reason that I don't use drugs is because I'm afraid of getting caught. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I like having a job and not having a criminal record.
It doesn't make you a coward, but it doesn't diminish my point in the least. Yeah, no shit you could get caught, or have drugs show up on a drug test.

THAT'S PART OF THE FUN!!!!

When I was a kid, we could get caught, too. We did GET CAUGHT. We got caught by parents, teachers, and cops. The question is why kids today are such wimps about it.

We got caught plenty. We also had a shitload of fun.

[davenportavenger]

The question is why kids today are such wimps about it.Tougher sentencing?

Get caught smoking pot in the sixties: slap on the wrist. Get caught smoking pot now: maybe five years probation, plus mandatory counseling, and your name in a database somewhere that will make it harder for you to own a house, fly on a plane, teach school, or do other important stuff.

Want kids to do more drugs? Get rid of the harsh penalties for doing so.

[Trunk]

Tougher sentencing?

Get caught smoking pot in the sixties: slap on the wrist. Get caught smoking pot now: maybe five years probation, plus mandatory counseling, and your name in a database somewhere that will make it harder for you to own a house, fly on a plane, teach school, or do other important stuff.
You have GOT to be kidding me.

You think they're handing out 5 years probation to a high school or college kid who gets caught smoking pot?

In the jurisdictions where they don't flat out ignore pot, they pretty much have legalized it.

[Whiks]

Of course the problem is that you only see the segment of kids who feel the need to make a myspace page about themselves. All the cooler kids have better things to do, and/or have no interest whatsoever blogging and posting pictures of themselves looking moody. Though, because no one knows they're out there, people just assume the youth of today ALL live a myspace-like existance.

[Anne Neville]

Yeah, no shit you could get caught, or have drugs show up on a drug test.

THAT'S PART OF THE FUN!!!!

When I was a kid, we could get caught, too. We did GET CAUGHT. We got caught by parents, teachers, and cops. The question is why kids today are such wimps about it.

We got caught plenty. We also had a shitload of fun.

But why is it fun to risk getting caught doing drugs? That's what this kid-these-days who never did drugs doesn't understand.

[Trunk]

Of course the problem is that you only see the segment of kids who feel the need to make a myspace page about themselves. All the cooler kids have better things to do, and/or have no interest whatsoever blogging and posting pictures of themselves looking moody. Though, because no one knows they're out there, people just assume the youth of today ALL live a myspace-like existance.Well, I always figured that what you're saying was true -- that the cool kids really are out there, laughing at the kids like davenportavenger. (j/k)

And so, I figured, "well, Nicholas Kristoff must have found one of the cool ones ot take to Africa with him." Naturally, I kind of flipped out when her first entry was this playlist shit.

[davenportavenger]

Well, I always figured that what you're saying was true -- that the cool kids really are out there, laughing at the kids like davenportavenger. (j/k)Um, well, at least I don't have a Myspace. And I don't listen to emo. And I've never posted a playlist on my journal, which I use rather sparingly anyway. And I DO know people who have gotten probation and counseling on their first drug offense, though five years might be a bit of a hyperbole. But make whatever generalizations you feel like, you're so great at doing that anyway.

[Trunk]

But why is it fun to risk getting caught doing drugs?
Because you'rea kid and you're not supposed to do what they tell you.

That's what this kid-these-days who never did drugs doesn't understand.
Obviously.

[Sean Factotum]

Man, I wonder if Kristof is rethinking his decision right about now.
Can you post comments to Kristof's blog? If so, I would definitely lay out your argument there. Who knows - if it's entertaining enough, maybe you'll get to fill in for the Journalism student.

[Anne Neville]

Because you'rea kid and you're not supposed to do what they tell you.

Not doing stuff- that I can do! I'm good at not doing stuff.

I can understand why using drugs might be fun, but wouldn't it be more fun if there were no possibility of something bad happening as a result? That's the part I don't get.

[KidScruffy]

Either way, young people should still do drugs...

When I was a kid, we could get caught, too. We did GET CAUGHT. We got caught by parents, teachers, and cops. The question is why kids today are such wimps about it.

We got caught plenty. We also had a shitload of fun.
Sure, but only cause everyone else was, ya darn follower.

The problem with kids these days, is that polls aren't accurate enough. Kids need to be able to wake in the morning, see that 51% of kids are or are not doing drugs, and be able to make an informed decision about being a trend-setter and not a follower.

Or to put it another way, how much do you need to know about an individual to be able to determine if their non-drug-use is their own conscious decision, or just a wimpy submission to authority? A 10-year acquaintenceship? A one-hour interview? A peek at their playlist?

[Roonwit]

I always thought that once the old 'bourbon-and-branchwater was good enough for my Daddy' geezers were out of the way, we Boomers might have a chance at legalizing cannabis. Now we're gonna have to fight with the kids about it, too? Jesus. I hope Nancy Reagan roasts in hell.

And I know that the main reason that I don't use drugs is because I'm afraid of getting caught. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I like having a job and not having a criminal record.

We're supposed to believe all these polls that say that kids these days aren't toking up? Yeah, right. The ones who are are just scared shitless to admit it.

(Not saying that you do, just that the 'fear factor' has to be skewing the poll results.)

FWIW, I disagree with Trunk that part of the fun is the risk of getting caught. Nothing fucks up a good buzz like paranoia. I rather think that the 'fun' in that regard is the feeling of the civil disobedience of largely unjust laws... as long as there's little chance of actually being caught. Of course, YMMV if adrenaline rushes are your idea of a good high.

[Merijeek]

You think they're handing out 5 years probation to a high school or college kid who gets caught smoking pot?


Eight tabs of X - 8 years.

Not probation.

-Joe, not me

[Gangster Octopus]

Just curious, what should she have posted?

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

When I was a kid. . .
Dude, you're a curmudgeon. Nobody but curmudgeons begins a sentence like that. Shake your cane, pretend like kids today aren't as cool as you were when you were a kid, and head down to the shuffleboard court for your afternoon exercise.

Or try this: what do you think your parents were saying about your generation when y'all were young? Were they saying, "Look at these cool kids, with their exciting drug rebellions"? Shit no: they weren't understanding what the fuck you were doing, and so they were treating you with contempt borne out of a strange mixture of ignorance and experience.

Because you'rea kid and you're not supposed to do what they tell you.
"Supposed" is an ironic word to use there. First, if it's fun because you're supposed to do what they tell you not to do (which sounds like a more accurate phrasing of your point), you're still responding to authority. Second, here you are trying to tell the younger generation what they should do. Third, the younger generation seems to be happily getting along without your advice, and it's just steaming you up.

Kinda funny, really.

Daniel

[Wolfian]

Shut up. Shut up! Jesus Fuck- SHUT UP!

Every generation thinks the generation after it sucks. Every one. Yet, somehow society goes on. Amazing.

Here's (http://audio.theworld.org/wma.php?id=09114) a clip of the journalism student in question on NPR from yesterday. She's definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I think she'll get something good out of her trip.

[lokij]

You have GOT to be kidding me.

You think they're handing out 5 years probation to a high school or college kid who gets caught smoking pot?

In the jurisdictions where they don't flat out ignore pot, they pretty much have legalized it.


Believe it. My step sister is on probation right now... they searched her car with a dog because it was on school property they didn't need a warrant or permission. She got busted for posession and was sent to an alternative school for her senior year and a year of probation... with random drug testing. If she fails her drug tests she gets to go to jail. The ONLY reason she's not in jail is she Was a minor at the time. You cannot, and I can't stress this enough, CANNOT count on a 'slap on the wrist' anymore.

[Trunk]

Just curious, what should she have posted?
How about some actual THOUGHTS (those things that rattle about in some people's heads) about heading off to AFRICA with an op-ed columnist from the NEW YORK TIMES.

You can't tell me that the most you would expect from a graduate student in journalism -- or really, anyone with a college education -- in that situation is a fucking playlist.

Or try this: what do you think your parents were saying about your generation when y'all were young? Were they saying, "Look at these cool kids, with their exciting drug rebellions"? Shit no: they weren't understanding what the fuck you were doing, and so they were treating you with contempt borne out of a strange mixture of ignorance and experience.
They were saying we listened to devil music, wore out hair too long, our clothes too baggy, did too many drugs, had too much sex, drank too much, and drove too fast.

They sure as shit weren't saying, "you're music is too soft; your behavior is too appropriate."

If being a fucking pansy is what it takes today to be a rebel, give me the conformists.

[athelas]

But essentially, you're saying "why aren't those kids doing stuff that we were doing at their age?" Which is exactly what previous generations were saying.

(Not to mention that the complaint echoes those of the outskirts of society sneering at those who are successful. "Why aren't they doing the ultimately counterproductive stuff that I like to do?")

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

They were saying we listened to devil music, wore out hair too long, our clothes too baggy, did too many drugs, had too much sex, drank too much, and drove too fast.

They sure as shit weren't saying, "you're music is too soft; your behavior is too appropriate."

If being a fucking pansy is what it takes today to be a rebel, give me the conformists.
No, actually: they were saying that you were a bunch of self-absorbed, shallow little shits who didn't stand for anything and who had turned their backs on what was important in life. They might have said, looking at the sixties and seventies, "If being a fucking pansy is what it takes today to be a rebel, give me the conformists."

Daniel

[Trunk]

But essentially, you're saying "why aren't those kids doing stuff that we were doing at their age?" Which is exactly what previous generations were saying.
No, what I'm saying is that the culture behind you should tend to be more outrageous in the older generations eyes, not more toned down.

The problem -- my thread title notwithstanding -- is that there is no reason for an older generation to say, "Kids, today. . ." because the "kids today" have apparently turned out to be tamer than their parents.

I guess I overlooked that the "kids today" didn't want to get caught. That was my oversight. Previous generations didn't have to worry about "getting caught".

For what it's worth, Casey's subsequent blog entries have been much more interesting.

[buttonjockey308]

Jesus, you people are appalling.

Kids today don't have the sex we and the generation before us did because YOU CAN DIE from it.
That said,Blow Jobs (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_2002/tows_past_20020507_b.jhtml) are the new standard. More of a hand shake than a sex act, (thanks again Bill) and kids still consider themselves virgins afterward. Kids should experiment, no doubt, but fer Christs sake, it's not a business transaction.

And drugs? What the fuck? I, honestly, am all for the legalization of pot. It carries the same level of danger as Alcohol over time, and doesn't induce violence like booze sometimes can. Still though, it's illegal, and is so for several reasons, not the least of which the culture of violence that surrounds all illicit drugs. Admittedly, this would fix if they'd legalize it, at least for pot. I don't even smoke the stuff, and I can see the sense in legalization.

It's not fuckin hip, cool, or rebellious to expose yourself to some chemical you buy off of some guy in an alley. You can't trust the supply, and in my opinion, you never could. You boomers can wax nostalgic about getting high in the basement at your friends mom's house if you like, but you've got to know that today is a different world. It's not Mikey from down the block growing his supply in the woods across the street, it's a cartel from Jalisco pushing tons of weight over the border in Home Depot trucks. It's not about eating a couple shrooms and veggin' out in front of a deep purple black light poster for 5 hours, it's about downing 3 X tabs and having sex with random people until you pass out. It's not about taking a couple of speed pills to cram for a test or lose a few pounds, it's about your neighbor making meth in his bedroom to sell to your little brother and his friends. Then turning your neighborhood into a superfund site because he wasn't a careful enough cook.


With all that said, kids today ARE soft, though in different ways. This is TRULY the 'ME' generation. MySpace, MY Playlist, me me me. The smaller the world gets and the more we know about the people who live in it, the farther apart we become, because we realize that, upon closer examination, people are fuckin weird. The only thing they have left is to take the things they like and know, and look for people who like the same things, and the easiest way to do that is in front of this contraption.

IMO, "kids" have been soft though for a long time, because they remain untested.

To quote Charles Bukowski,

"The trouble with these people is that their cities have never been bombed and their mothers have never been told to shut up."

/hijack

Re: The OP, I'm going to reserve judgement (same as DavenportAvenger) until later. It's too soon to tell.

[anu-la1979]

It also used to be that you were barred from receiving federal education loans if you had a drug offense on record. I don't know if this is true anymore but I clearly remember answering the question on my forms.

cite (http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/faq003.htm#faq003_5)

[Cyberhwk]

IMO, "kids" have been soft though for a long time, because they remain untested. EXACTLY...because the fucking old people have taken away what little responsibility kids DID have at one time.

As someone just exiting the younger generation (I'm 23) I assure you there is PLENTY of support for marijuana legalization in my generation. Just because we may or may not be smoking it, doesn't mean we're not smart enough to make a rational judgement on whether prohibition is a good idea. I, like you, do not (and have never) smoke marijuana yet would strongly support legalization.

Kids are soft because every responsibility has been taken away from them. Curfew laws are being passed, driving restrictions are becoming tigher...shit (this is the pit isn't it...oh yeah)...SHIT...in some school districts they can't even choose their own fucking clothes in the morning.

And people wonder why kids these days want everything given to them...BECAUSE IT'S WHAT YOU'VE FUCKING BEEN DOING!

Just remember whenever you bitch about kids...you reap what you sow.

[DoctorJ]

I can't read the blog, so I can't say anything about her comments as a whole.

But the point of a blog is that not everything has to be an earth-shattering, finished piece. I've always heard that when you can't think of what to write about, the best solution is to just write something, and those warm-ups and personal asides that would have been hidden in an old-school columnist's Moleskine make it into the final product on a blog.

This sounds like something I would do. Music is a big part of my consciousness, and writing down what I was listening to when I left on my adventure would help me remember how I was feeling when I looked back on it later. My travel journals have often started with mundane details--lists of what I'm taking with me, expected itineraries, etc.

Again, I haven't seen the blog, and the rest of it may be truly vapid. But I wouldn't draw this conclusion based on the fact that she posted a playlist.

[DoctorJ]

You think they're handing out 5 years probation to a high school or college kid who gets caught smoking pot?

In the jurisdictions where they don't flat out ignore pot, they pretty much have legalized it.
As others have pointed out, there are still harsh penalties out there for marijuana possession. They're pretty arbitrary, usually given out when a local PD or politician needs to look "tough on drugs", but they exist.

The law isn't the end of it, though, at least for those of us who are employed. Every major employer in my area does random drug testing. Just about everybody I know who isn't self-employed could potentially be fired after a single positive test for marijuana, which could result from a single joint smoked weeks, or even (for those companies that do hair tests) months ago. It just isn't worth it.

[Trunk]

I can't read the blog, so I can't say anything about her comments as a whole.

But the point of a blog is that not everything has to be an earth-shattering, finished piece. I've always heard that when you can't think of what to write about, the best solution is to just write something, and those warm-ups and personal asides that would have been hidden in an old-school columnist's Moleskine make it into the final product on a blog.

This sounds like something I would do. Music is a big part of my consciousness, and writing down what I was listening to when I left on my adventure would help me remember how I was feeling when I looked back on it later. My travel journals have often started with mundane details--lists of what I'm taking with me, expected itineraries, etc.

Again, I haven't seen the blog, and the rest of it may be truly vapid. But I wouldn't draw this conclusion based on the fact that she posted a playlist.
You just beat 4000 other people in a contest to travel with Nicholas Kristof for 2-3 weeks in Africa.

You're going to Equatorial Guinea, Cameroon, possibly Libya, Cantral African Republic, Chad -- to meet with dictators, observe AIDS clinics in sub-sahara, perhaps see refuge camps caused by genocidal regimes.

You're a graduate student in journalism.

You're getting a chance to write a publicized blog in the New York Times.

You're going to tell me that you think it's just fine that on the eve of this adventure that you post your playlist?

No wonder people think journalism standards have fallen. If this kind of thing is all people expect. . .why the fuck not? It's a lot easier to list what's on your iPod than actually do work.

As I said before. . .for what it's worth, her subsequent entries have been more interesting.

[davenportavenger]

It also used to be that you were barred from receiving federal education loans if you had a drug offense on record. I don't know if this is true anymore but I clearly remember answering the question on my forms.That is still true, my boyfriend works in financial aid and he's had to tell people that they couldn't get it because they had a drug offense.

[Anaamika]

I'm not going to comment on the whole kids today stuff but man that was a really mundane, boring, stupid entry. I mean, all she had to do was type a little bit about her thoughts or maybe her fears on going to a new country.

[DoctorJ]

You're going to tell me that you think it's just fine that on the eve of this adventure that you post your playlist?
Ideally it wouldn't be the only thing one posted on the eve of the adventure, but I don't think there's anything wrong with posting it. It helps people form a personal connection to her before the meat of the blog gets started. My favorite blogs have been a mixture of the poignant and the mundane. In many ways, the personal touches are what makes a blog more interesting to read than a traditional newspaper column or news story.

You also have to allow for someone in a situation like that to be overwhelmed. Despite all my schooling and training, I didn't really knock anything out of the park on my first day on the job, either.

[The Weird One]

1. This is weird, I'm 24 and I don't know anyone who doesn't smoke pot. Wait, probably my stepmom. And my stepbrother, but he's only 12. Give 'im time.

2. Less than a week ago, my younger brother left for Uganda. He'll be living there for a year, working for an NGO that is trying to make the Members of Parliament less corrupt and more responsible to their constituents. This will be my brother's third time in Africa; if you're looking to read some damn good writing by a young person about their experience in Africa, I'd be happy to forward you some of the e-mails he sent us about living and teaching AIDS education in Tanzania.

3. Damn old folks.

[Cyberhwk]

1. This is weird, I'm 24 and I don't know anyone who doesn't smoke pot. Wait, probably my stepmom. And my stepbrother, but he's only 12. Give 'im time.Pretty much my situation too. In fact my only close cowoker that doesn't only doesn't because he says he smoked too much when he lived down in California and decided he'd had enough and gave it up.

[sturmhauke]

Either way, young people should still do drugs.
You know what, fuck you and your establishment bullshit! I ain't doing drugs because you told me to! In fact, I'm gonna be cleaner than a fucking whistle! How you like me now, you old ass muthafucka?

Kids' real job is to piss off the older generation. Seems they've done a good job so far.

[Mr2001]

It's not about eating a couple shrooms and veggin' out in front of a deep purple black light poster for 5 hours, it's about downing 3 X tabs and having sex with random people until you pass out.
Having sex after taking three hits of ecstasy is about as practical as singing while you drink a glass of water (if you're male, at least). Shrooms are still out there, but one or two bad trips are enough to turn anyone off to them, especially given the availability of alternatives.