Philly Prison Dopefest?

[twickster]

I've been wanting to check out Eastern State Penitentiary (http://www.easternstate.org/index2.html) for years. At the time of its construction (1829), it was a progressive model of prisoner treatment -- i.e., that everyone did solitary confinement. It was in use until 1971. (See the "History" page in the link.) Al Capone was imprisoned there. Etc. I've heard it's very cool.

And it seems eminently Doperific. Anyone interested? I'm thinking either a Saturday or Sunday in mid-October -- 14th, 15th, 21st, or 22nd. There are restaurants in the area for a meal after -- it's also extremely close to the Art Museum, if people want to do a day of it. (The Art Museum is "let your conscience be your guide" admission price on Sundays.)

[MsRobyn]

If it's a Sunday, it's possible. I've always wanted to see it, too; I've seen documentaries and such on historic prisons.

Robin

[BiblioCat]

Damn, I'd be jumping right in and saying, "Me, me, me!" because I know where it is, and could squeeze in a visit with my Philly-collegebound daughter, but I have class nearly every Saturday in October.

I may check back in once you settle on a date.
Pencil me in as a very tentative Maybe.

[twickster]

Damn, I'd be jumping right in and saying, "Me, me, me!" because I know where it is, and could squeeze in a visit with my Philly-collegebound daughter, but I have class nearly every Saturday in October.

What about a Sunday? That seems to be better for Robin anyway. (Though I guess there are some football fan types who wouldn't prefer it.)

[MsRobyn]

What about a Sunday? That seems to be better for Robin anyway. (Though I guess there are some football fan types who wouldn't prefer it.)

Aw, screw the football types. ;)

Robin

[BiblioCat]

Go ahead and plan it, and see what works the the actual Philly Dopers. If I can make it, I will. I'm just an out-of-towner who's gonna crash it.

[Cleophus]

I vote for Sunday as wel.

[twickster]

Okay, so Sunday it is. Does anyone have a preference between the 15th and the 22nd?

[Cleophus]

I have no preference to either date.

[swampbear]

Twicks you and Eve know how to plan some classy dopefests. Cemeteries and prisons. All the fun places! :D

I'm also extremely jealous that I'm not nearby to go.

[Voyager]

Just want to jump in and say we visited once, a while back, when there was an exhibition of art about political prisoners placed in some of the cells. It is an awesome place - have fun!

[MsRobyn]

I like how they have "alumni reunions". There's a certain je ne sais quoi about that.

Robin

[FairyChatMom]

Aw, geez, this sounds so cool! But it's over 3 hours away, and I've got classes in Oct, so I can't take a Monday off. And Saturdays won't work because of my ceramics class.

I love living in the boonies except when cool stuff like this comes up. <sigh>

[ryobserver]

I can make it on the 15th; I did have a book discussion on the 15th, but this sounds more interesting. On the 22nd I'll be at Capclave, so that's out.

[What Exit?]

The 22nd is better for me. I am pulling a boat out of the water the week before and going to a small clam festival. I will not be in any shape fora drive out to Philly that Sunday.

Approximately what time of the day?

Jim

[rocking chair]

y'all do know that october is the big shindig month for the prison? halloween at the prison? big crowds.

[twickster]

y'all do know that october is the big shindig month for the prison? halloween at the prison? big crowds.
Yeah, I saw that -- seems like it would be more for the evening haunted house tours, though. A Sunday afternoon should be okay.

You gonna mosey down the street and join us?

[RTFirefly]

Aw, screw the football types. ;) Easy for you to say (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=382937). :D

[DocCathode]

Marvellous! A dopefest I don't need a ride for!

[rocking chair]

depends on date and time. i know i have a work dinner one of those sundays.... i'm not sure which.

[twickster]

This would probably be more afternoonish.

[twickster]

Okay, we're looking at a Sunday afternoon -- October 15th is better for ryobserver and the 22nd is better for What Exit? -- anyone else interested?

[MsRobyn]

The 22nd is better for me, too.

Robin

[What Exit?]

So what's the verdict?
What day are we to be sent to Jail?
Can we Lock Down a date?

Jim {Bump}

[twickster]

Yeah, why limit yourself to one bad pun when there are three readily available?

It sounds like the 22nd is good for more people than it's bad for. I was thinking early afternoonish -- or we could do more mid- to late-afternoonish, and have dinner after? Or late morningish and do lunch after? What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening...

[What Exit?]

Yeah, why limit yourself to one bad pun when there are three readily available?

It sounds like the 22nd is good for more people than it's bad for. I was thinking early afternoonish -- or we could do more mid- to late-afternoonish, and have dinner after? Or late morningish and do lunch after? What's the buzz, tell me what's a-happening...
Once is nice, twice is better, but thrice pays for all.

I like the idea of early afternoon and an optional late lunch or early dinner after.

[twickster]

Okay, if we say Sunday the 22nd at 1 PM, who's in?

[What Exit?]

Okay, if we say Sunday the 22nd at 1 PM, who's in?
I am in. I will hopefully be groggy from a World Series game, but I will make it.

Jim

[Little Nemo]

I am definitely giving thought to driving down to Philadelphia for the weekend of the 22nd. Assuming I get the days off, I'll be in.

[twickster]

Yay! That would be cool!

I just emailed bibliocat, since she was another out-of-town possible.

[MsRobyn]

Okay, if we say Sunday the 22nd at 1 PM, who's in?

If I can swing it, I'll be there.

Robin

[BiblioCat]

Nope, I can't make it that day, even with the personal invitation from twickster.
You'll have to get by without me.

[DocCathode]

I should be able to make it.

[Little Nemo]

I finally got the weekend off. I'll be there.

[twickster]

Yay!

So the list is:

Doc Cathode
Little Nemo
twickster
What Exit?

looking likely;

Cleophus
MsRobyn
rocking chair

somewhere between possible and likely.

Anyone else want to join us?

[Cleophus]

I'm there.

[quiltguy154]

Hi guys! The twenty-twooth sounds good to me!

[twickster]

Hey quiltguy -- haven't seen you in eons! Glad you can make it!

[Mr. Goob]

I toured it about 15 years ago when I lived on Green St. a few blocks away. Creepy and cool as hell.

Now I live a few miles from Attica. What's with me and famous prisions?

Have fun guys.

[Little Nemo]

Being as I'll be in Philadelphia for a couple of days, I'd like suggestions for other sites I should visit while there.

I've been to Independence Hall and the mint. I'm thinking about the Mutter Museum. I plan on hitting some sites in New Jersey on the trip back, like the USS New Jersey and Lucy the Elephant.

Are there any flea markets open that weekend? Any good independant bookstores? And recommendations on places to eat? Other tourist tips?

[twickster]

Mutter Museum, definitely.

Go down to Old City (Independence Hall neighborhood) and check out Ben Franklin's house, on Market between 3rd and 4th. While in the area, check out a couple of good used bookstores on North 2nd Street -- The Book Trader and, um, the other one, a few doors up from there on the same side of the street, can't think of the name. That's also a restaurant area -- wander around and read the displayed menus. Perhaps a trifle pricey, but a lot of good places to eat.

Place to wander around, and be more likely to find cheap eats -- South Street.

Daytime place to eat: Reading Terminal Market, 12th and Filbert (a block north of Market). Old-fashioned farmers' market, in operation continuously for over 100 years.

[DocCathode]

If its okay, I'd like to bring two friends.

[twickster]

The more the merrier. In fact, I just emailed my pal M. to see if he wanted to come.

[Carl Corey]

I might be able to make it as well.

[twickster]

Looking likely:
Cleophus
Doc Cathode + two friends
Little Nemo
quiltguy154
twickster
What Exit?


Also considering joining us:

Carl Corey
MsRobyn
rocking chair


Anyone else want to join us?

[What Exit?]

Anyone else want to join us?
My wife is deciding whether or not to come. She said she would decide today, so I can arrange for sitters for my kids.

Jim

[twickster]

My wife is deciding whether or not to come. She said she would decide today, so I can arrange for sitters for my kids.

Jim

Yay! I wouldn't mind if I weren't the only female.

[MsRobyn]

Thanks to various Powers That Be, it's looking very likely that I'll be able to attend. I may have the sprog with me, if that's okay. I think the trip would be good for him. ;)

Robin

[twickster]

Check the link -- I think there's a "no kids under XX" clause -- on my way out, I don't have time to check it myself right now.

[MsRobyn]

Check the link -- I think there's a "no kids under XX" clause -- on my way out, I don't have time to check it myself right now.

Yeah, it's no kids under 6. Ah, well. I think he'd've enjoyed it, but then, a day to myself is fun, too.

Robin

[What Exit?]

Yay! I wouldn't mind if I weren't the only female.
My wife wants to come, now I just need to arrange babysitters. Both of my sisters are busy, so I have to reach out to the less convenient options or my Aunts that my Daughter does not like. I am hoping my Brother might come down for the afternoon. He can watch the Giants game on my LCD TV, he might go for it.

Jim

[twickster]

Looking likely:
Cleophus
Doc Cathode + two friends
Little Nemo
MsRobyn
quiltguy154
twickster
What Exit?[/b] + the lovely Mrs. What Exit

Also considering joining us:

Carl Corey
rocking chair

Looks like we're approaching the critical mass on grooviness.

There's a bunch of good restaurants in that area -- I'm thinking we could go out for some combination of drinks and food (snack or meal, depending on what any individual wants to order mid-afternoon -- linner, anyone?)after. I'll do some research on specific places.

[twickster]

Got an email from crandolph saying s/he (sorry, don't know which) used to be a tour guide there, and might be able do get us into some cool back-room spaces, etc. -- but s/he can't do the 22nd, do we want to try to reschedule for November sometime?

It's hard enough getting agreement on a first date that I'm thinking "no," -- what do the rest of you think?

[What Exit?]

Got an email from crandolph saying s/he (sorry, don't know which) used to be a tour guide there, and might be able do get us into some cool back-room spaces, etc. -- but s/he can't do the 22nd, do we want to try to reschedule for November sometime?

It's hard enough getting agreement on a first date that I'm thinking "no," -- what do the rest of you think?
I am okay with a reschedule, but it might be tough for others. Seems like it might be a big bother this close to the event. So I guess I am saying, I am good either way.

[MsRobyn]

I am okay with a reschedule, but it might be tough for others. Seems like it might be a big bother this close to the event. So I guess I am saying, I am good either way.

It's harder for me in November, what with Airman's cousin's wedding in Pittsburgh and projects and such being due.

Robin

[Little Nemo]

Guys, I'd really like to have a committment as soon as possible. I almost made hotel reservations today when I saw that the discussion on the date has been re-opened.

[twickster]

Let's stay with the 22nd. I'm taking anything less than an immediate chorus of "ooh, guided tour" to mean that we're on for the original plan.

Sunday the 22nd, 1 PM, meet at the prison, nearby restaurant for conviviality after.

I'll convey our thanks and regrets to crandolph.

[Little Nemo]

Just a bump to say I've made my reservations and to bring this thread back up for others to see.

[What Exit?]

My wife will not be able to make it. We failed to line up baby sitters. I will still be there.

[Zebra]

Actualy busy or I would train down from NYC.

[What Exit?]

Where and how are we meeting up at the Prison?
Will someone be holding a sign? :D
How is parking?
Do they have a lot or is it street parking?
I found this under Directions:
On-Street Parking: There is ample on-street parking surrounding the Penitentiary. While the parking is unmetered, some streets do have a two or three hour limit.

Parking Lot: There is a public parking lot right next door. Parking costs $4.00 for up to 2 hours and $5.00 for more than 2 hours.
Here are the Directions:
Location: 22nd Street and Fairmount Avenue, just five blocks from the Philadelphia Museum of Art.

Parking: There is ample on-street parking and a parking lot right next door.

From the North or West:
- Take Interstate 76 (the Schuylkill Expressway) to Exit 344 (Old Exit 38), which is Interstate 676, also know as the Vine Street Expressway.
- On I-676 take the first exit, "Benjamin Franklin Parkway/ 23 Street."
- Take the first left onto 22nd Street.
- Pass the Philadelphia Museum of Art (on your left) and continue five blocks north, to Fairmount Avenue.

From the South or East:
- Take I-95 to Exit 22 (Old Exit 17) and follow Interstate 676 West.
- Follow Interstate 676 West.
- Get off at Art Museum/ Benjamin Franklin Parkway" Exit.
- At the top of the ramp, turn right onto 22nd street.
- Pass the Philadelphia Museum of Art (on your left) and continue five blocks north, to Fairmount Avenue.

Bus and Trolley Service: Eastern State Penitentiary is convenient to SEPTA bus routes: 76, 48, 43, 33, 32, 7 the Phlash Tourist Bus Line, and the Philadelphia Trolley Works route.

[twickster]

The parking situation is as described -- it's not usually a big deal.

For when and where to meet -- I'll be there by 12:45, and know, I think, everyone but you and LittleNemo -- who have met others of us, correct? (BTW -- This (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/twickster/?action=view&current=moi.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch3) is what I look like.) So there will be six or eight nerds, most of whom will look familiar to at least one of the others, wandering around in the general area of the main entrance at roughly that time.

My inclination is "no" on the sign, due to a streak of conventionality that prevents me from appearing in public with a large piece of paper that says "Hi, Opal!" I would, however, be willing to sidle up to such a person and identify myself if you want to bring one.

[What Exit?]

...snip...
My inclination is "no" on the sign, due to a streak of conventionality that prevents me from appearing in public with a large piece of paper that says "Hi, Opal!" I would, however, be willing to sidle up to such a person and identify myself if you want to bring one.
Thanks, Cool, I will remember to bring a pen in case I need to resort to the Hi, Opal Sign. :)

[MsRobyn]

The parking situation is as described -- it's not usually a big deal.

For when and where to meet -- I'll be there by 12:45, and know, I think, everyone but you and LittleNemo -- who have met others of us, correct? (BTW -- This (http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/twickster/?action=view&current=moi.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch3) is what I look like.) So there will be six or eight nerds, most of whom will look familiar to at least one of the others, wandering around in the general area of the main entrance at roughly that time.

My inclination is "no" on the sign, due to a streak of conventionality that prevents me from appearing in public with a large piece of paper that says "Hi, Opal!" I would, however, be willing to sidle up to such a person and identify myself if you want to bring one.

I've met Little Nemo on one of his forays to Houston.

I'll be more than happy to bring a sign that says "Hi Opal!" in a large, gaudy font on fluorescent cardboard. I'll take that bullet because that's just the kind of person I am. [sub]The kind with no dignity.[/i]

Robin

[twickster]

For where to go after: I recommend Rembrandt's (http://www.rembrandts.com/), a nice bar/restaurant right next to the public parking lot that's right next to the prison. I checked, and


Brunch stops at 2:30Pm in the dining room but we are open in both bars after that. We serve the lunch/bar menu for the rest of the day. We open the dining room at 5:00PM with the dinner menu. So to answer your question, yes, we are open and serving food and drink.
It's perhaps a trifle pricey (see menus), but it's a nice place and the food is good.

Let me know what you think.

[DocCathode]

I'm against a pricey restaraunt. Besides being cheap, Philly has an abundance of quality low-cost establishments.

[twickster]

I'm against a pricey restaraunt. Besides being cheap, Philly has an abundance of quality low-cost establishments.
Fine. Propose a couple.

[What Exit?]

For where to go after: I recommend Rembrandt's (http://www.rembrandts.com/), a nice bar/restaurant right next to the public parking lot that's right next to the prison. I checked, and


It's perhaps a trifle pricey (see menus), but it's a nice place and the food is good.

Let me know what you think.
I'll be good anywhere everyone decides and I have no recommendations.

Jim

[DocCathode]

Fine. Propose a couple.

Kay, good cheap places near eastern state. Gimme a bit- after all it's easier to criticize than contribute.

[DocCathode]

Actually, looking at the menu from Rembrandt's it's much less than I expected when I heard the word "pricey". $15 isn't that much for an entree. When you said pricey, I expected twice that.

[twickster]

I was just trying to be sensitive to people's budgets -- I know when I'm counting pennies, $10 for a sandwich and a drink while hanging out is kind of "pricey," and I think that could be the range people are looking at.

[rocking chair]

i'm now officially in the "no" column. work, eat, sleep, that is my life.


as for less pricey places, there is pete's (24th and fairmount), little pete's (philadelphian ground floor level fairmount ave side); and the art museum restaurant (25th and fairmount).

there is a place called mug shots that is on 21st and fairmount, good gathering place for the group to gather pre tour. (can grab a beverage and outdoor table) tours are timed and tickets needed. high season at the "pen".

[twickster]

Bummer, rocking chair! (In retrospect, I can't believe I actually met you at my first Dopefest -- haven't seen you since!) Thanks for the info -- I was hoping you'd be back with some tips, since that's your neighborhood.

So, current version of the list, I believe:

Cleophus
Doc Cathode + two friends
Little Nemo
MsRobyn
quiltguy154
twickster
What Exit?

Still TBA: Carl Corey

[MsRobyn]

I'm 99% sure I can't make it. I've got a monster cold, plus I promised the sprog that I'd take him to Chocolate World on Sunday.

Robin

[DocCathode]

My friends have had to cancel on me.

[Carl Corey]

It's looking pretty good for me. The only issue is I'm going to a birthday party out in the suburbs Sat. night. I don't drive, so I may end up crashing out there. I should be able to make it back to the city by 1pm though.

Rembrandt's sounds fine to me. I'm pretty flexible about restaurants, except no Little Pete's. I have had too many bad experiences with that place. Urgh.

Looking forward to meeting you all. (I lurked for a couple of years before joining up, so this will be interesting.)

[twickster]

Yay, Carl Corey! Are you okay with randomly trying to ID us, or do you want someone to bring a sign?

Revised current version of the list:
Carl Corey
Cleophus
Doc Cathode
Little Nemo
quiltguy154
twickster
What Exit?

A small crew, but a valiant one....

[DocCathode]

http://www.easternstate.org/visit/coupon.html $1 off adult admission.

[What Exit?]

http://www.easternstate.org/visit/coupon.html $1 off adult admission.
Cool I just cut and pasted them in word so I could print 4 per page. I will bring 8 with me.

Jim

[twickster]

Excellent -- eight should do it for the whole crowd, it sounds like.

One final bump for anyone who's managed to ignore this opportunity....

[Little Nemo]

Getting ready to head out. Looking forward to meeting everyone tomorrow. To help make my presence known, I'll wear my coat of many colors. Okay, actually it has three colors - black, gray, and teal - but it should be distinctive enought to stand out.

[twickster]

Well, distinctive your coat may be, Little Nemo -- but we sure didn't see it outside the front gate of Eastern State this afternoon. Or you. Hope it was a decision to not come for whatever reason, and not a problem of some sort. -- We did wait till 1:30.

It ended up being WhatExit, Carl Corey, Doc Cathode and myself -- Cleophus was also late, but caught up to us while we were still in the first wing, otherwise he never would have found us. (OTOH, one of my underlings showed up with her husband -- completely unexpectedly -- I saw them while we were still waiting outside, and then ran into them again when we were getting ready to leave -- they decided not to join us for the meal after, though.)

Very cool -- very trippy -- neat experience.

[What Exit?]

I just want to give a formal thank you to twickster for organizing an excellent outing.

It was good to finally meet you and to meet Carl Corey. Great to see Doc Cathode and Cleophus again.
I think Doc was determined to keep us entertain throughout. Did we remember to check him for a smuggled out MegaPhone?

Cleophus, can I talk you into posting some pictures when you get a chance.

Thanks all,
Jim

[Cleophus]

Cleophus, can I talk you into posting some pictures when you get a chance.


No prob. Digitals will be up later on Monday, though pictures from the Brownie will take about a week.

[DocCathode]

On the way home, I had a chance to stop at the used bookstore we passed on the way to Rembrandt's.

I loved the Pandemonium installation. I still find ESP amazing as example of pain and death caused by Quakers.

Cleophus You haven't decided to develop your own film?

[Cleophus]

On the way home, I had a chance to stop at the used bookstore we passed on the way to Rembrandt's.

I loved the Pandemonium installation. I still find ESP amazing as example of pain and death caused by Quakers.

Cleophus You haven't decided to develop your own film?

First off, I had color film loaded. Hand developing color film, while technically possible, is a royal pain in the ass compared to black and white. The temperatures and agitation must be controlled to a far more precise degree to get acceptable results (i.e. machine processing). That's not the issue, though - I can actually get the rolls developed in a few minutes. The Brownie doesn't use 35mm film, so it's going to take me a few days before I have time to go to a shop that can handle printing or scanning 120 film.

[twickster]

I loved the Pandemonium installation.
That was the one with the sounds in that one cellblock? Yeah, that was my favorite part too.

[What Exit?]

That was the one with the sounds in that one cellblock? Yeah, that was my favorite part too.
Ditto. That was a very interesting use of the accoustics. I would like to know a little more about what the artist went through to set it up and test it and what sort of controls he was using.
No prob. Digitals will be up later on Monday, though pictures from the Brownie will take about a week.
:cool:

[Little Nemo]

Nobody to blame but myself. For some reason my brain insisted we were meeting at 2:00 not 1:00. I showed up early - probably only seconds after you guys had given up on me and gone in. I then spent an hour waiting for everybody outside while you were inside touring. Depending on how long you were there we were probably in the prison at the same time at some point around 3:00. And assuming Doc's talkng about the used bookstore up the street across from the parking lot, I was there as well afterwards. So I guess in a sense I was there with you guys - I just didn't join in the conversation.

[twickster]

Damn! That really is too bad. I'm sorry you missed us -- my fault -- What Exit was all for being generous on waiting, I'm the one who started agitating around 1:25, so it may actually have been a hair before 1:30 that we disappeared inside.

We were there about two hours -- I think it was around 3:30 that we went over to the restaurant -- so we might well have passed inside.

Oh well ...

[Carl Corey]

Sorry we missed you, Nemo .

That was fun -- thanks again to twickster for setting the whole shebang up.

[Cleophus]

Digital pictures up at http://homepage.mac.com/smcgroty/PhotoAlbum13.html

[What Exit?]

Digital pictures up at http://homepage.mac.com/smcgroty/PhotoAlbum13.html
Great Pictures, thank you for sharing them.
Is it okay if I copy some?

Jim

[twickster]

Damn, Cleophus, those came out great! Thanks for posting them.

[danceswithcats]

Super pictures! The plaster ceiling pieces have a 70's abstract feeling to them. Wish I could have been there-is Rembrandt's still as cool a place as I remember it being from 20 years ago?

[twickster]

Super pictures! The plaster ceiling pieces have a 70's abstract feeling to them. Wish I could have been there-is Rembrandt's still as cool a place as I remember it being from 20 years ago?

The restaurant is nice, and the food is good -- but the service leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. (Okay, we were there during the 4th quarter of the Iggles game, but still....) I ordered "Chicken Rustica" -- and ended up with "Pizza Rustica," but was so friggin' hungry at that point I said "just give me the damn pizza."

BTW, dwc -- would you ever consider exposing danceswithkittens to Doperosity if we had a family-friendly Doper outing on a Sunday? I'm thinking of a trip to this really cool topiary garden for next spring sometime.

[What Exit?]

The restaurant is nice, and the food is good -- but the service leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. (Okay, we were there during the 4th quarter of the Iggles game, but still....) I ordered "Chicken Rustica" -- and ended up with "Pizza Rustica," but was so friggin' hungry at that point I said "just give me the damn pizza."

BTW, dwc -- would you ever consider exposing danceswithkittens to Doperosity if we had a family-friendly Doper outing on a Sunday? I'm thinking of a trip to this really cool topiary garden for next spring sometime.
The Food was good, the company was excellent and the beer selection was well varied. But as twickster said the service was sub par. It took longer than reasonable to put two table together, I even offered to help at one point. The food took longer than reasonable for a slow part of the day and poor twickster got stuck with the wrong food. However, I did enjoy the food and beer.

About where is the cool topiary garden? I would like an outing I feel safe bringing the kids to.
The prison was emphatically unsafe for any little ones that do not always listen to their parents. Translated: My son would have been in trouble half the time and I am really glad I did not bring him.

Jim

[Cleophus]

Great Pictures, thank you for sharing them.
Is it okay if I copy some?

Jim

No problem. Drop me an e-mail if you want the full resolution files.

[Cleophus]

A zip file of the high-res pictures are available at http://idisk.mac.com/smcgroty/Public/ESP Pictures.zip. 68.5 MB.

[Cleophus]

I've added the Brownie pictures to the album.

[danceswithcats]

The restaurant is nice, and the food is good -- but the service leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. (Okay, we were there during the 4th quarter of the Iggles game, but still....) I ordered "Chicken Rustica" -- and ended up with "Pizza Rustica," but was so friggin' hungry at that point I said "just give me the damn pizza."

BTW, dwc -- would you ever consider exposing danceswithkittens to Doperosity if we had a family-friendly Doper outing on a Sunday? I'm thinking of a trip to this really cool topiary garden for next spring sometime.
Sure-that would be great, and then you'd possibly believe that I actually have a daughter, not a neighborhood kid I've hired for the day to pretend I'm her old man. ;) Where is said topiary garden?

[twickster]

Sure-that would be great, and then you'd possibly believe that I actually have a daughter, not a neighborhood kid I've hired for the day to pretend I'm her old man. ;) Where is said topiary garden?

It's called Ladew Gardens (http://www.ladewgardens.com/), and it's down near Baltimore, so we might get some genuine MAD action. As I said, this is something I'm thinking of for next spring sometime.

[danceswithcats]

Wow. That looks like a very neat place, indeed! After the great time we had at Winterthur, I'm definitely interested. It reminds me of Brookgreen Gardens (http://www.brookgreen.org/), a place that is a must visit for anyone with similar interests, should they find themselves in coastal South Carolina. I'm grateful that my parents took me there as a youngster-my most recent visit is almost 30 years ago. Yikes!