Vegetarian Pot Pie?

[Mooch]

This weekend I am having some friends over and I am making a game stew which I will then put into individual dishes, cover with puff pastry and bake. One of these friends is a vegetarian and I didn't want her to have a different looking dish (at least superficially), so I was going to put puff pastry on top of a vegetarian pot pie (if there are tasty ones to be made).

Would a regular chicken pot pie recipe work if I left out the chicken and chicken stock and subbed them in for an additional vegetable and vegetable stock? The recipe for pot pies I use comes from Cook's Illustrated.

Anyone have a good vegetarian pot pie recipe?

[norinew]

Being a carnivore myself, I've never made vegetarian pot pie. However, I googled on "vegetarian pot pie recipe" and came up with more than 600 hits. So I'm absolutely certain it can be done.

I think I'd be inclined to add some vegetarian protein instead of just more veggies; like firm tofu, or some of those vegetarian "meat" crumbles they sell in the freezer case of the grocery store.

[WhyNot]

Absolutely. You can either leave out the meat and add more of the veggies and gravy or you can use one of the many "fake" meat products out there. Boca or Morningstar Farms both make a respectable "ground beef" crumble, which will give you sort of a cottage-pie result. Just don't cook it too long or it gets...weird. It doesn't need browning or long simmering like meat. If I make veggie chili, for example, I cook the vegetables, tomatoes, spices and beans first, then add the crumble in the last 10 minutes of cooking.

White wave makes a phenomenal Chicken Style Seitan (http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Food/75x89ww_seitan.jpg), which is chunks of this chicken-like wheat gluten product that can be used instead of chunk chicken. They also have a "beef" one that I'm not quite so fond of - seitan is more chicken textured than beef textured.

Vegetable broth is fine, of course. You can also find "beef" and "chicken" gravy mixes which don't have actual meat products in them - look in the really expensive Organic specialty aisle or the really cheap artificial flavoring aisle.

[Mooch]

Thanks! I think I'll steer away from "meat" products because I am am not sure if she even likes any of them (save those breaded "chicken" patties). I'll just go ahead and make my normal pot pie for her without chicken and add another vegetable with "bite" like fennel or something.

[norinew]

I'll just go ahead and make my normal pot pie for her without chicken and add another vegetable with "bite" like fennel or something.
Mushrooms are a nice veggie alternative to meat, too.

[Mangetout]

Mushrooms and beans to the rescue here, I would say; large flat mushrooms with dark gills will make a good gravy, but tend to cook down to funny little slippery bits of nothing. I would suggest one finely chopped flat mushroom, plus a handful of little whole button mushrooms (per person). Beans... butterbeans would be nice with that, I think.

[badbadrubberpiggy]

Mushrooms are a nice veggie alternative to meat, too.

Yeah, especially something with a lot of substance, like portabellas.

[Mooch]

Mangetout and norinew - mushrooms are a great idea. I tend not to think of them as they are not my favorite (I won't go out of my way to eat them, but will if they are in something).

I'll try sauteeing the button mushrooms when the firmer veggies are almost done so they retain some texture.

[Dangerosa]

I'd put in garbanzo beans, myself. They add some texture and protein.

Buy a can of vegetarian stock. It will be easiest.

(I've never actually been vegetarian, but have cooked for lots of them and am an omnivore who does a lot of meatless meals. Do "watch your vegetarian" - i.e. in my experience you can't assume vegetarian means "will eat eggs" or "will eat vegetables that were not bought from the organic shelf."

[Mooch]

...Do "watch your vegetarian" - i.e. in my experience you can't assume vegetarian means "will eat eggs" or "will eat vegetables that were not bought from the organic shelf."

Thanks for the heads up.

I've known her for several years and have cooked for her on occasion. She is more of a "pick it off" type. I think it's the texture that gets to her. She'll even be ok with chicken stock, although I am curious how the veggie stock will do. The milk in the "gravy" and butter that will be in the dough and cooked veggies are ok. I can't explain her reasoning. I don't argue, and don't mind making the extra meal (not at her request - just trying to be all-inclusive).

[WhyNot]

For what it's worth, I'm never quite as satisfied with vegetable stock, so I would, in your shoes, with the proper notification and acceptance of the "vegetarian" in question*, use chicken broth or stock. Veg broth is just....weaker. It doesn't have the richness and smoothness of chicken stock, or even broth. Chemically, it's lacking in the gelatin that gives the nice smooth mouth-feel to stock. You can help by replacing some of that with fat - vegetable oil or butter, but it's still not the same, IMHO.



*I would never "sneak" chicken broth into a vegetarian's meal any more than I'd sneak pork into a person who followed Kashrut or Halal, as I'd hope no one was sneaking caterpillars into mine. People are allowed to say what they're willing to eat, and I'm willing to honor that. If it's too much trouble, I just won't cook for you!

[tiltypig]

Do you have Quorn or Veat in your neck of the woods? These are two VERY convincing brands of fake chicken. If she likes the breaded "chicken" patties, I'm sure she would like these too. You could then make almost exactly the same recipe for the vegetarian pot pie. You could even try using it in the carnivore pot pies and see if anyone can tell. :)

[Beltane]

For what it's worth, I'm never quite as satisfied with vegetable stock, so I would, in your shoes, with the proper notification and acceptance of the "vegetarian" in question*, use chicken broth or stock. Veg broth is just....weaker. It doesn't have the richness and smoothness of chicken stock, or even broth. Chemically, it's lacking in the gelatin that gives the nice smooth mouth-feel to stock. You can help by replacing some of that with fat - vegetable oil or butter, but it's still not the same, IMHO.



*I would never "sneak" chicken broth into a vegetarian's meal any more than I'd sneak pork into a person who followed Kashrut or Halal, as I'd hope no one was sneaking caterpillars into mine. People are allowed to say what they're willing to eat, and I'm willing to honor that. If it's too much trouble, I just won't cook for you!


I find that "Better than Bouillon" is a good, flavorfull alternative to Bouillon cubes that is not as much trouble as creating my own stock.

[WhyNot]

I find that "Better than Bouillon" is a good, flavorfull alternative to Bouillon cubes that is not as much trouble as creating my own stock.
Yes, yes, yes, I love them! Do they have a vegetable "stock"? That might be worth trying. I use the chicken and the beef ones. So much better than canned, so much easier than homemade.

[WhyNot]

Yes, yes, yes, I love them! Do they have a vegetable "stock"? That might be worth trying. I use the chicken and the beef ones. So much better than canned, so much easier than homemade.
Answered my own question: yes, they do have a vegetable, as well as mushroom, turkey, ham and others.

Cook's Illustrated likes their vegetable quite a bit, ranked second among store-boughts in 2003. In 1998, the beef was ranked second to homemade - not bad!

[WhyNot]

Better Than Bouillon homepage (http://www.superiortouch.com/btb.htm) They even have "Vegan No Chicken" and "Vegan No Beef". Obviously, my local grocery store needs to place a better selection for me!

[anu-la1979]

Hey WhyNot, speaking of that fake-o meat stuff. I want to make tourtiere, which is a French-Canuck meat pie I grew up eating. Are you saying if I bake the Smart ground round meat crumbles in the pie crust that it will taste like ass? Generally the real meat recipe calls for sauteeing the meat in a few spices and then filling it into the pastry with a layer of cubed or mashed potatoes (I remember it as cubed).

How to go about resolving this issue? Should I just sautee the spices with some onions, carrots and celery and then mix it with the Smart Round and then pour into pie shell and bake???

[Anne Neville]

I use chicken or beef flavored vegetarian stock instead of chicken or beef stock in most of my cooking, since I keep kosher and can't have meat stock in any dish that contains dairy. It comes in jars of loose powdered stock, which is much more convenient than cubes. Look in the kosher foods section of your market for those.

Amy's (http://www.amys.com/) makes a vegetarian broccoli cheese pot pie that I absolutely love.

[WhyNot]

Hey WhyNot, speaking of that fake-o meat stuff. I want to make tourtiere, which is a French-Canuck meat pie I grew up eating. Are you saying if I bake the Smart ground round meat crumbles in the pie crust that it will taste like ass? Generally the real meat recipe calls for sauteeing the meat in a few spices and then filling it into the pastry with a layer of cubed or mashed potatoes (I remember it as cubed).

How to go about resolving this issue? Should I just sautee the spices with some onions, carrots and celery and then mix it with the Smart Round and then pour into pie shell and bake???
I haven't used Smart in a while, I usually use frozen Boca or Morningstar. I don't know if Smart's any different. Boca and Morningstar hold up to baking OK. I've made cottage pie with it, and that's baked for 40 minutes or so. What I won't do is simmer it on the stovetop for more than about 10-15 minutes - certainly not an all day simmer like for chili. It soaks up too much liquid and just gets...mushy and odd.

For cottage pie, I'll sautee onions and/or leeks, make a roux and gravy in that, add a bag of frozen veg and heat it all throu, then add the crumble and heat just until hot. Then it goes into a casserole, topped with whipped potatoes and baked until brown. Whereas, with meat, I'd add the meat with the onions, brown it, and let it keep cooking as the gravy and veg are prepared in the same pan.

Your meat pie sounds substantially similar. I'd do what you suggest - sautee the spices in some oil to wake them up, along with the veg, then add the crumble to heat it through and proceed as normal.

Hope this helps!

[jjimm]

I used to do this all the time when I was a vegetarian - though usually with a celeriac/potato mash instead of pastry.

It was really simple - all I used was finely cubed potato, leek and carrot, in a seasoned bechamel sauce. You could change that for veggie gravy, or even use the gravy to season the bechamel. The veg cooked in the sauce while the pie was baking. Bloody delicious.

[Anne Neville]

It was really simple - all I used was finely cubed potato, leek and carrot, in a seasoned bechamel sauce. You could change that for veggie gravy, or even use the gravy to season the bechamel. The veg cooked in the sauce while the pie was baking. Bloody delicious.

That rumbling sound you just heard coming from the west- that was my stomach growling from reading this. That does sound delicious. I use leeks and carrots instead of onion, celery, and carrots in a lot of dishes, because Mr. Neville doesn't like celery. Is it a traditional British thing to do that I somehow stumbled upon on my own, or is it just you and me that do that?

[jjimm]

Is it a traditional British thing to do that I somehow stumbled upon on my own, or is it just you and me that do that?To be honest, I would never have thought of leeks had I not been living with Welsh people at the time, and it's their national vegetable. More subtle taste and a better texture than onion, I find. Now my tummy's rumbling too.

[Chronos]

She'll even be ok with chicken stock, although I am curious how the veggie stock will do.Contrary to WhyNot, I find that stock is stock. Vegetable stock will have a different flavor than meat stock, of course, but it's not inferior. So long as it's mostly water and a bit salty, it'll work the same way in the recipe.

[elelle]

I find pre-made veggie stock to be a little watery and lacking flavor, probably because when I make it myself, I use a lot of vegetables and spices, so, pretty hearty. It would be a bit of extra work for the OP to do it from scratch though.

One way to up the flavor is to use miso paste instead of stock. Mix it with a cup of hot water, very tasty. I use miso in recipes that call for ham as well (like split pea soup), it's comparably salty and flavorful.

For the pot pie, perhaps use shallots instead of onions for richer flavor, and rosemary or Herbes de Provence for nice seasoning.

[Sonia Montdore]

[QUOTE=Mooch]
I was going to put puff pastry on top of a vegetarian pot pie (if there are tasty ones to be made).

You might want to make sure that the puff pastry you serve your veg friend doesn't contain butter, lard or other animal fat.