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Lightray
10-24-2006, 05:00 PM
Or is that just the way I think it should happen? :D
I swear I've read that exact same scenario, only with Apollo v. Blanders subbed in. The Internet sure is a funny place...

Cervaise
10-24-2006, 05:10 PM
Incidentally, I mentioned something about this in the thread for BSG's season premiere, but now that we're a few episodes in I'm looking again:

The thread for the last episode of "Lost" topped out at 148 posts, just about three pages.

This one just topped six pages and 250 posts.

The "Lost" thread had 63 participants, for an average of 2.3 posts per person.

This one has 48, an average of 5.2 apiece.

Not really sure what that says. Maybe: smaller audience, but more to talk about. Or... we don't really have lives. :p

Ponder Stibbons
10-24-2006, 05:26 PM
Or... we don't really have lives. :p :(

Oakminster
10-24-2006, 05:41 PM
Well, this was a major episode, pretty much blowing off all the tension built up over the previous episodes this season. Could be that Lost just hasn't had a really big episode yet....

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 05:42 PM
Or... we don't really have lives. :p

Well, I'm married, which means I don't need one anymore. :D Anyway, she watches BSG with me, which is pretty cool.

Cat Whisperer
10-24-2006, 08:35 PM
We need a "technical discussion" version of spoilers, so those of us who couldn't care less about how fast the Galactica was going when it jumped to FTL can just gloss over those posts. Maybe a "Math nerd" tag.
:D

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 08:54 PM
Maybe a "Math nerd" tag.
:D
x=1/2at^2 isn't enough of a nerd tag, already?

Loopydude: I hate you. Mrs. Plant's only false is an intense dislike of a BSG that doesn't have Liquid Prell and blow dryers. :)

...oh damn, did she giggle when Starbuck twisted the knife?

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 09:00 PM
Mrs. Plant's only false
only failing. :rolleyes:

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 09:14 PM
Loopydude: I hate you. Mrs. Plant's only false is an intense dislike of a BSG that doesn't have Liquid Prell and blow dryers. :)

...oh damn, did she giggle when Starbuck twisted the knife?

Loopybabe hates sci-fi. Hates it. I take her acceptance of BSG as a sign it's simply got to be something special. Has Mrs. Plant really watched it? If she saw a few episodes back-to-back could she truly be unmoved? My wife once watched an episode with me last year, but because she wasn't following the show, she was totally lost, and fell asleep after about twenty minutes, refusing to give it another chance. "No! It's stupid and confusing!" So I rented the miniseries and the whole first season, and one rainy weekend later I got her favorite movie snacks together as an inducement and said "We're doing this". It was a conceptual barrier to get over. She so couldn't believe that she was getting drawn in that I think her mind refused to acknowledge at first that it had responded positively to the viewing experience. But finally it hit her. "I can't believe I like this nerdy space crap!"

All relationships take work. :)

Lightray
10-24-2006, 09:23 PM
... Mrs. Plant's only false is an intense dislike of a BSG that doesn't have Liquid Prell and blow dryers. :)

...oh damn, did she giggle when Starbuck twisted the knife?
What, did she miss the episodes with Jamie Bamber in a towel???

The only women I know who've resisted Apollo-in-a-towel-yowza! are the ones more interested in Starbuck-in-a-dress-vavavoom! (and a small minority attracted to The Glare)

silenus
10-24-2006, 09:28 PM
The wife is an even bigger fan than I am. She started watching it first season just to have something to talk to me about. She got hooked about three episodes in and hasn't missed one since. She couldn't care less about the science, but loves the human interactions. I think she even told Ron Moore she wanted to have his children when we saw him at Comic-Con! :mad:

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 09:29 PM
Mrs. Loopy digs Helo, but the towel scene from Final Cut did indeed put them in close contention. Lee's pudgyness has really got her down. She's also fond of Chief Tyrol. Really, it's this almost endless parade of eye-candy for all involved.

Lightray
10-24-2006, 09:33 PM
Heck, fat Apollo almost has me down.

... every time he comes on screen now I wonder why he's storing nuts in his cheeks like he's some kinda space chipmunk.

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 09:50 PM
What, did she miss the episodes with Jamie Bamber in a towel???


She's a Leonard Nimoy kind of woman.
^ :dubious: ^

Cat Whisperer
10-24-2006, 09:54 PM
x=1/2at^2 isn't enough of a nerd tag, already?
<snip>
Good point.

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 09:56 PM
the towel scene from Final Cut did indeed put them in close contention.
Er, have you heard him on the miniseries CD? He's an English guy playing for the other team.

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 10:05 PM
Jeez, don't tell is wife (http://www.jamiebamber.co.uk/).

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 10:06 PM
Or his kids! Especially the twins! They'll be devastated!

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 10:11 PM
Next you'll be telling me that James Callis swished down the aisle.
Maybe it's an English thing.

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 10:16 PM
Poor Neha and Josh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Callis)! Next thing you're going to tell me, he and Jamie Bamber are rocking the Raptor model between takes! How sordid!

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 10:25 PM
I just reported to Mrs. Plant that James is Jewish and she replied, "How sad."
Oye.

levdrakon
10-24-2006, 10:27 PM
Er, have you heard him on the miniseries CD? He's an English guy playing for the other team.I remember way back then they were doing an "about" show and Callis & Bamber were reading letters from fans and one question was "will there be gay characters?" They looked at each other suggestively and chuckled, "we'll see."

It was mildly amusing at the time because it suggested there would be gay characters. Now we're on season three with no gay characters and that little bit doesn't seem so funny.

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 10:35 PM
Jeez, don't tell is wife (http://www.jamiebamber.co.uk/).

You know how they say that people who live with each other a while start to look alike?

Lightray
10-24-2006, 10:40 PM
It was mildly amusing at the time because it suggested there would be gay characters. Now we're on season three with no gay characters and that little bit doesn't seem so funny.
It's not canon, but I remain convinced that Felix Gaeta feels the love that cannot be named for Gaius Baltar. Well, felt the love etc., 'cause he's sure not a Baltar fan now. I still have hopes for poor Felix continuing on; it'd be an interesting way to develop his character.

And if not Felix, maybe they'll throw a bone to poor Capt. Kelly, who really needs some development and screen-time. I was inordinantly cheered when he showed up again in Exodus pt. I.

But I vaguely recall this, too, being mentioned by Moore in one of his podcasts -- along the lines of "if we can figure out how to do it well."

levdrakon
10-24-2006, 10:49 PM
But I vaguely recall this, too, being mentioned by Moore in one of his podcasts -- along the lines of "if we can figure out how to do it well."Which is basically a euphemism for "not on my show."

Geez, how many people went and got married? There are no orphans rescued from sexual slavery who need a nice wholesome gay couple to adopt them? It doesn't have to be the focus of the whole frakin' episode or anything.

I like your idea about Capt. Kelly. I actually would like to see his character developed if they're going to keep sticking him in the background and giving him little lines now and then.

alphaboi867
10-24-2006, 10:53 PM
..."if we can figure out how to do it well."

Doing it well would be handling a same-sex relationship exactly how RDM's handled every other relationship on the damned show. The whole "sexuality wouldn't be an issue (in the future)" is a fucking cope out when every expression of sexuality is between a male and a female.

Loopydude
10-24-2006, 11:12 PM
I think the chuckles were over Callis' arguably most well-known role as a gay pal of Bridget Jones (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243155/).

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 11:26 PM
poor Capt. Kelly, who really needs some development and screen-time. I was inordinantly cheered when he showed up again in Exodus pt. I.

I wondered who the hell he was when RM mentioned Kelly in the podcast, 'till I saw him in the miniseries along with Serenity.
I thought he was killed when she took the nuke, or Cain bit his ear of or something.

Lightray
10-24-2006, 11:37 PM
I thought he was killed when she took the nuke, or Cain bit his ear of or something.
He shows up from time to time. He was the landing officer when Starbuck was teaching the newbies to land, IIRC. He's also the third in command of Galactica -- after the Old Man and the XO.

My favorite theory is that we don't see him because he's the guy who's busy making all those incredibly detailed models that Starbuck and Adama like pushing around on their situation board. Do we really think they had a model of the Colonial Carrier sitting around on the Galactica, just in case they had to plan an ambush on a Cylon tyllium mine?

I mean, it can't be a coincidence that they learn about the Resurrection Ship for the first time, and by the time they have their plan together to show to Caine, here's a painted-and-to-scale mounted miniature of the Resurrection Ship for Starbuck to push around, and, hey, where's Capt. Kelly been all this time?!?!

carnivorousplant
10-24-2006, 11:41 PM
here's a painted-and-to-scale mounted miniature of the Resurrection Ship for Starbuck to push around, and, hey, where's Capt. Kelly been all this time?!?!

I can understand that, but I have issues with how a Commander ranks a Captain. Hornblower ain't in it.

levdrakon
10-24-2006, 11:46 PM
My favorite theory is that we don't see him because he's the guy who's busy making all those incredibly detailed models that Starbuck and Adama like pushing around on their situation board. Do we really think they had a model of the Colonial Carrier sitting around on the Galactica, just in case they had to plan an ambush on a Cylon tyllium mine?

I mean, it can't be a coincidence that they learn about the Resurrection Ship for the first time, and by the time they have their plan together to show to Caine, here's a painted-and-to-scale mounted miniature of the Resurrection Ship for Starbuck to push around, and, hey, where's Capt. Kelly been all this time?!?!I like that one and I've also just assumed he's the guy in charge when Adama, Tigh, Apollo & Starbuck are theoretically sleeping. They do have to operate 24/7.

But then they show him on duty at the same time as everyone else and I get confused again.

Oh, frak. Just give him his own show. Battlestar Galactica: The Night Shift.

Oslo Ostragoth
10-25-2006, 12:07 AM
All relationships take work. :)Sig line!

cerberus
10-25-2006, 12:47 AM
Delightful ... the Hogan's Heroes/Stalaag 17 retarded story arc ends with the pointless loss of the only modern battlestar left, as well as depleting any and all mystique remaining to the Toasters, humanoid or otherwise.

Of course, the Pegasus had the ability to manufacture the Mark VII Vipers.

:rolleyes:

And now we get to limp through endless cycles of post-WWII, Vichy and Nuremberg-style consequences of the collaborators from planetside.

athelas
10-25-2006, 09:30 AM
Which is basically a euphemism for "not on my show."

Wait, so now he's obligated to give the another of left's pet issues what you all determine to be "adequate" screen time? Be grateful you got the nice Iraq parallels with the Occupation.

OpalCat
10-25-2006, 09:56 AM
(buncha stuff)
If you don't like the show, why do you watch it? :confused:

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 10:00 AM
Well, out of fairness, I love the show, and I bitch about things incessantly in my usual, annoying, nitpicky way that I need to get under control.

However, that review does look like something more in line with someone who plain doesn't like the show.

Lightray
10-25-2006, 10:02 AM
Sometimes, I find myself wondering if Moore is choosing plots simply because they'll annoy the maximum number of Internet persimmons.

And then I think, "Way to go, Ron."

Cat Whisperer
10-25-2006, 10:16 AM
Delightful ... the Hogan's Heroes/Stalaag 17 retarded story arc ends with the pointless loss of the only modern battlestar left, as well as depleting any and all mystique remaining to the Toasters, humanoid or otherwise.

Of course, the Pegasus had the ability to manufacture the Mark VII Vipers.

:rolleyes:

And now we get to limp through endless cycles of post-WWII, Vichy and Nuremberg-style consequences of the collaborators from planetside.
It's still head-and-shoulders better than any number of reality shows put together.

Cervaise
10-25-2006, 10:28 AM
And now we get to limp through endless cycles of post-WWII, Vichy and Nuremberg-style consequences of the collaborators from planetside.Limp?

Some of us will strut. :cool:

carnivorousplant
10-25-2006, 10:47 AM
It's still head-and-shoulders better than any number of reality shows put together.

Well, yes, but in all fairness so is Captain Kangaroo.
At least when he has animals.
:)

Lightray
10-25-2006, 10:53 AM
Well, yes, but in all fairness so is Captain Kangaroo.
At least when he has animals.
And even though he's dead.

Let's review:

BSG > zombie Captain Kangaroo + animals > reality TV > 7th Heaven

Any questions?

Corner Case
10-25-2006, 10:58 AM
It's still head-and-shoulders better than any number of reality shows put together.Mrs. Plant's only false is an intense dislike of a BSG that doesn't have Liquid Prell and blow dryers.The max factor for this series is that it is not just about pert cover girls in oil. Allay your fears that they may ban the sole marriage relationship of man and woman. It would be a vidal topic to bring up as the human race needs to repopulate.


Sorry, I just had to get that out of my head so that I could move on.

alphaboi867
10-25-2006, 11:04 AM
I can understand that, but I have issues with how a Commander ranks a Captain. Hornblower ain't in it.
It's a fictional military. The Colonial Fleet's ranks appear to be a combination of army and navy ranks. For officers it's; Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant , Captain, Major, Colonel, Commander, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, and Fleet Admiral. A Commander in the Colonial Fleet translated to an Brigadier General in the US Army, a Rear Admiral (lower half) in the US Navy, and a Commodore in the Royal Navy. Cain was a Rear Admiral (per extended Pegasus. Adama appears to have been made Fleet Admiral (Nagala was FA in the mini). The ranks in conjecture are italics based on that.

Grossbottom
10-25-2006, 11:08 AM
For any gamers in the thread, I just saw this today for the first time:

http://www.game-warden.com/bsg/gallery.html

As with any ambitious mod project, there's a better than even chance that it dies a drama-related death in utero. But it might make it! Fap.

Lightray
10-25-2006, 11:24 AM
Moore's blog listing Colonial military ranks (http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/02/index.html#a000020) (scroll down)

wiki with rank insignia (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Military_Ranks_(RDM)) (which seems to be extrapolating some information; it's a wiki, after all)

alphaboi867
10-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Wait, so now he's obligated to give the another of left's pet issues what you all determine to be "adequate" screen time? Be grateful you got the nice Iraq parallels with the Occupation.

If RDM just doesn't want homosexuality on his show he should come out and say it. His sneaking around is annoying. BSG's premise is ripe with possible gay storylines. Colonial civilizations appears to completely lack racism and sexism (except for some naming conventions). Given their lack of hangups on gender roles lets assume that homosexuality may be so well accepted that it's not in anyway remarkable. Meaning same-sex couples can marry along with their opposite-sex counterparts and a pride parade would never occure to anyone. Now all of the sudden 20,000,000,000 people have died. The human race is at a bottleneck. They literally must populate or perish.

carnivorousplant
10-25-2006, 11:41 AM
The max factor for this series

Is that a Freudian slip for a show that had lots of 70's hair?

The rank question was intended to be of a humoroue nature. I apologize if I whooshed anyone. :)

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Wait, so now he's obligated to give the another of left's pet issues what you all determine to be "adequate" screen time? Be grateful you got the nice Iraq parallels with the Occupation.I'm really not sure what you're trying to say but if you're saying gays are leftist and Iraq parallels are what turns them on then yours is one of the more surreal posts I've read in awhile.

RDM has created this imaginary futuristic world where he's gone out of his way to prominently place women and minorities in roles where they're clearly established as being strong, intelligent and completely equal.

The absence of a single depiction of a gay character is glaring. The problem now is the longer he waits, the harder it will be to casually introduce one without it coming across like a loud fart in a library. But if he doesn't introduce one it makes it seem like in the "future" teh gays was a defect that was fortunately cured by advanced medical care.

In other news: Mrs. Plant's only false is an intense dislike of a BSG that doesn't have Liquid Prell and blow dryers.Maybe I'm missing a reference here but I thought Roslyn & D'Anna's hairdos pretty much covered the Prell & blow-dryer set.

C K Dexter Haven
10-25-2006, 03:23 PM
alphaboi867: I have removed the double post, as you requested, but your email address seems to have changed. Please change your registration to conform? ... I was trying to send you an email acknowledgement, but it bounced.

carnivorousplant
10-25-2006, 03:32 PM
In other news: Maybe I'm missing a reference here but I thought Roslyn & D'Anna's hairdos pretty much covered the Prell & blow-dryer set.

Ah, but not 70's hair. Consider Baltar with the anti-70's hair, oily and unkempt, opposed to clean and perfect, like say a freshly shampoed wombat.

Cleverly changing the subject, I shall remark that I'm not sure what Mrs. Plant objects to; maybe it's Starbuck being female, maybe it's just because I like it. :)
Could be worse. We could disagree about Trek.

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 03:34 PM
I have a guess about this: I think they just don't know how to do it convincingly, and I'm not sure if they can. BSG's writers have dealt with sexual politics by mixing the cast up completely in terms of what we come to expect from the usual TV portrayals of gender, and for the most part forgeting all about it (though we've seen some disappointing cliches come out of Starbuck's character). I'm pretty sure that's quite intentional. I think they're very wise in treating the gender of the characters as henceforth irrelevant, and make quite a statement by going about their business as much as they can in a very natural, unselfconcious manner. You really don't think about the fact that, of the top three sticks in the Fleet, two of them are women. You just don't. Cat and Starbuck are great pilots, and besides being quite teh hawt, you just don't give a second thought to their female status. It's utterly believable. However, a gay character (and it pains me to say this) might be a bit too "activist" to maintain this quality. Maybe if they'd put some in at the very beginning, but after that, well, I don't think it can be done without having that character be obtrusively "the gay character", like they're putting one in because, hey, our show lacks "the gay character". And I'm sorry, but I think having "the gay character" might really suck under those circumstances. It would be pointlessly distracting.

Lightray
10-25-2006, 04:00 PM
I really don't think having a gay relationship would be too distracting, because the relationships we've seen so far don't take up much time, at all. They exist mainly as foils to character development.

Even when characters have their relationship as a large part of their story arcs -- e.g., Helo + Boomer, Billy + Dee -- their story arcs haven't really been about the relationship. The relationships proceed on while other things happen to the characters.

The only ones I can think of where the relationship affected the character's life, and not vice-versa, were the Tighs. The others we get brief glimpses while other things go on. And I think that any relationship -- gay, straight, or lightly toasted -- is going to get this treatment on BSG. And then probably implode in some gut-wrenching emotional disaster.

And I'd think it doesn't have to be a major character, either. One of the pilots (or Capt. Kelly) hanging out in that observatory love nest that Billy & Dee went to, and no one finding it shocking, would do much to make this frakking topic just go away.

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 04:08 PM
Well, I simply cannot believe that sexual tension between Lee and Kara isn't going to be a big part of the coming season. And I'll be up front right now by saying I'll be really disappointed if they don't handle that well, because I don't want this show to turn into a total frakking soap opera.

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 04:27 PM
And I'd think it doesn't have to be a major character, either. One of the pilots (or Capt. Kelly) hanging out in that observatory love nest that Billy & Dee went to, and no one finding it shocking, would do much to make this frakking topic just go away.That's the exact episode & scene I was think of where Moore dropped the ball. He missed a huge, free "gimme" window of opportunity to shut people up.

ElvisL1ves
10-25-2006, 07:25 PM
Well, I simply cannot believe that sexual tension between Lee and Kara isn't going to be a big part of the coming season.I can. It's been, what, a couple of years. He's married to Dee now, apparently happily, and she's still messed up from the Leoben treatment. And they're both out of shape now, too.

As for the gay stuff, I just don't see where it would help advance any particular story line, or even develop any characters, without promoting some minor one into a major role. That would, however, be just like putting some cute moppet on a dying sitcom's last season.

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 07:30 PM
That's just it. I actually am inclined to agree that they blew a good opportunity at inception, but now...it'd be so obviously contrived I just don't see how it couldn't be a glaring discontinuity in focus and tone.

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 07:51 PM
As for the gay stuff, I just don't see where it would help advance any particular story line, or even develop any characters, without promoting some minor one into a major role. That would, however, be just like putting some cute moppet on a dying sitcom's last season.

Dualla didn't have to marry Apollo. Cally marrying Tyrol and having a baby didn't serve any particular story line. Starbuck marrying Anders didn't advance the story. Helo didn't have to marry Boomer.

But Ron Moore ran around marrying everyone off anyway.

Remember Duck from the webisodes? He lost a spouse and that's what made him go suicide bomber. Did his significant other have to be a woman? Why? I'd have cried foul of course. Why'd they have to kill the gay guys? But at least they'd have established they exist in the BSG universe.

silenus
10-25-2006, 07:57 PM
Remember Duck from the webisodes? He lost a spouse and that's what made him go suicide bomber. Did his significant other have to be a woman? Why? I'd have cried foul of course. Why'd they have to kill the gay guys? But at least they'd have established they exist in the BSG universe.

This is one of the reasons Ron is avoiding the issue, I'll bet. What's the point of introducing a character characteristic if you are just going to take shit for anything bad that happens to that character? Gay characters have to be just as expendable as any other character. Otherwise I have no problem with it one way or another. But when the demands turn to "they have to be gay, and they have to be happy, and they have to live" then forget it. What Whedon went through when he killed Tara was a nightmare. I think Ron has learned a thing or two from that.

Besides, nobody is going to be married much longer, methinks. Too much darkness approaching....

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 08:09 PM
I think making Starbuck a woman pretty much proved Ron Moore owns a pair of flame-proof underpants.

Alphaboi already made the point that the best way to handle it right, is to handle it just like every other relationship he's created. If they have to die, let them die. You'll never please everybody.

I've heard a few comments over the series about a lack of black characters in prominent roles. Should Ron Moore just not have any blacks on the show so he can avoid the whole issue? "Sorry, but in the BSG universe, there are no blacks." Oops, there goes Dualla. But she was only a token Uhura anyway. Answering the phone. Typical.

Oh wait, she suddenly got promoted to officer, XO and married Apollo.

silenus
10-25-2006, 08:16 PM
I think making Starbuck a woman pretty much proved Ron Moore owns a pair of flame-proof underpants.

Roger that! :D


I wonder when he's going to have the balls to kill off a really major character?

MaddyStrut
10-25-2006, 08:27 PM
Roger that! :D


I wonder when he's going to have the balls to kill off a really major character?

Who's been in more than a couple episodes that's been killed off so far? I remember the priestess lady earlier and now Ellen. Were there any others (Cain and the Peggy XO were on too short a time to count).

My boyfriend doesn't get my fascination with this show. So far, I haven't been able to convince him to start watching. He's convinced it's a typical sci fi show and he doesn't like sci fi (he has his faults). He can accept that I watch it, but he's having trouble accepting that Friday night is Battlestar Night! No, I won't wait to watch it later--I'm watching it as soon as it airs. Then there's the post show read and post on the internet about Battlestar time, discuss Battlestar with friends over the next couple days, then (around Wednesday) start getting psyched for the next Battlestar episode. That confuses the poor guy.

Lightray
10-25-2006, 08:29 PM
Besides, nobody is going to be married much longer, methinks. Too much darkness approaching....
You and me both.

Heck, Apollo and Starbuck might as well have "doomed to be tortured soul" tattooed on their foreheads. I'm not surprised that Blanders was too dim to pick up on the fact that any relationship Kara gets into is foredoomed, but I'd thought better of Dualla. She could have stayed with nice Billy (who'd still be alive, too), but noooo, she had to go with the Hot Body Of Preordained Frakkitude.

She's toast, I think. And probably Helo, too.

Nobody gets out unscathed on this show.

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm thinking whatever happens to them, "and they lived happily ever after" is not in the cards for Sharon and Helo.

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 08:52 PM
I wonder when he's going to have the balls to kill off a really major character?The big three to me would be Adama, Apollo & Starbuck. I think Apollo and Starbuck are safe, but I could almost see a time when EJO gets bored and says "kill me. I'll make occasional appearances as a ghost or something."

After that you've got Roslyn, Baltar, Tigh and the Cylons. Can't easily kill off one of the Cylon models. I could see Roslyn or Tigh going.

After that, just about anybody could go. Either for story-telling purposes or one of the actors gets a better contract. I could see the actor who plays Tyrol getting a better contract. He's a pretty good actor. I could see Helo getting it because even though I really like both the actor and the character, I've gotten the feeling RDM didn't have much use for him after he served his purpose season one.

silenus
10-25-2006, 09:15 PM
Can't easily kill off one of the Cylon models.

Wanna bet? Rumor has it that a model gets "boxed" before too long. Close enough for me. :D

carnivorousplant
10-25-2006, 09:15 PM
Can't easily kill off one of the Cylon models. .

"A hundred Sharon throats may be slit in a single night by a running Cally."

Loopydude
10-25-2006, 09:19 PM
Wanna bet? Rumor has it that a model gets "boxed" before too long. Close enough for me. :D

A model? Like, the whole line? Or do you mean an individual Cylon of a particular model?

Lightray
10-25-2006, 09:26 PM
A model? Like, the whole line? Or do you mean an individual Cylon of a particular model?
All individuals of one model are supposed to be taken offline this season.

No spoilers yet on which model; only speculation. Me, I'm guessing D'Anna will be the one, and Xena will move on to other things.

levdrakon
10-25-2006, 09:35 PM
Wanna bet? Rumor has it that a model gets "boxed" before too long. Close enough for me. :DDamn you! Damn you and your spoilers I can't resist!

I bet it's the Boomer model, leaving us with with just the good Boomer. Or, Dean Stockwell is bored.

silenus
10-25-2006, 09:57 PM
I bet it's the Boomer model, leaving us with with just the good Boomer. Or, Dean Stockwell is bored.

At this point it's completely up in the air. I can see valid reasons for any of the above. Or not. Interesting conundrum, isn't it? :D

tanstaafl
10-25-2006, 10:49 PM
All individuals of one model are supposed to be taken offline this season.

No spoilers yet on which model; only speculation. Me, I'm guessing D'Anna will be the one, and Xena will move on to other things.
Yep, that's the one I've heard. Supposedly she declares herself to be the Cylon god or something and the rest of them decide that her model is too unstable and shut down/box the entire model. (I've also heard that it is because Lucy Lawless didn't want to be tied down to the series.)

And, I've heard that the reason we haven't seen the other five models so far is because all of them are boxed already, but that the Cylons may "unbox" one later on.

Priam
10-25-2006, 11:05 PM
I think that Gaeta would work well as a good gay character at this stage of the game. Consider, for a moment, that he has had all the indications of a serious closet case when it comes to all romances (tightly wound, depressive, naive, obsessive with a certain someone...) that you could introduce a gay thread just based on the past subtext between him and Baltar. I also think it could be handled in a way that drastically deepens his character, especially since we've only seen a glimpse of the true him in Final Cut. What would it be like to invest your entire passion, love and vision in one man and then find out he's the biggest traitor humanity has ever seen? Makes the Kara v. Lee tragedy seem subdued.

I'm not saying it'd be the only way to handle Gaeta, but I do feel like it could be a tasteful and powerful storyline that's relevant to the overall plot and character. It isn't even, in my opinion, necessary for him to be locked in as far as orientation goes. There are plenty of people who are either bisexual or form such a powerful attachment to one member of the same sex that they are only homosexual with that person.

athelas
10-25-2006, 11:17 PM
Actually, yeah, I think that would be an awesome storyline to throw in. My point is that they shouldn't throw in arbitrary points (as I think some of the throwaway lines in the Occupation storyline were) just to please certain constituencies. But that idea, if handled in, could be done quite well. (Although, I think it could be done equally well with a non-sexual attachment, just a case of idol-worship shattered)

anu-la1979
10-25-2006, 11:46 PM
I think of all the characters Helo is the most susceptible to being axed. Which is a pity because he is *sob* my favourite eye-candy.

However, if they ever axe Tricia Helfer I'll mutiny. I live for ChipSix's outfits and psychoses. Hell, "would Six give up?" is what allows me to gasp out the last 5 minutes on the treadmill at 5:55 a.m. every day.

Um, yes, I am sad and motivate myself with BSG during my daily workout.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 07:18 AM
I just listened to my first RDM poscast last night. Actually, I tried once before, but it went on too long. So, this time I stuck it out, to see if there were hints about tomorrow night. Anyhoo, the highlight for me was, when commenting on the Galactica free-fall, "If we don't win the fucking Emmy for this, I swear to God..." or something very much to that effect.

Jammer's toast.

Sean Factotum
10-26-2006, 08:38 AM
Dualla didn't have to marry Apollo. Cally marrying Tyrol and having a baby didn't serve any particular story line. Starbuck marrying Anders didn't advance the story. Helo didn't have to marry Boomer.
Individually, you're right. But taken all together, it shows that the colonists decided to restart civilization after reaching New Caprica. It was time for them to stop running and start living again.

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 08:41 AM
"If we don't win the fucking Emmy for this, I swear to God..." or something very much to that effect.

You would think he would say "Frak", wouldn't you? :)

Where'd you get your spoiler, not that it is a bad thing?

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 09:12 AM
From the podcast.

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 09:15 AM
From the podcast.

I thought he just said something like [/spoiler]his future is uncertain[/i]

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 09:16 AM
Some of us drink Scotch, some of us drink coffee. :)

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 09:42 AM
I thought he just said something like [/spoiler]his future is uncertain[/i]

Yeeeah, but if you think about it, what are the alternatives? One is nobody knows of his guilt, which I think is rather unlikely, given his speaking rather clearly to a certain someone who really ought to have known who it was. So that leaves the other, which is they do know it him, in which case he's in serious trouble. That possibility branches to, does he eat a slug sandwich, or is he spared? As we know from the preview, 13 people "vanish", and I take it his peers didn't number much more than the scores, or low hundreds, so the odds start to look pretty scary.

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 10:17 AM
they do know it him, in which case he's in serious trouble.
Cally may know.
Of course, ski mask or no, they'd recognize hie beat up Addidas. :)

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 10:19 AM
Cally may know.

Bingo.

silenus
10-26-2006, 10:23 AM
More dramatic to stretch it out a bit, and watch him unravel under the tension.

Riffing off of tanstaafl's spoiler above:

What if the Cylons have discovered that they are "unstable?" If they resurrect often enough, they go psychotic, or are prone to fits of "godhood." The whole attack on the colonies could be a lashing out at the life form that created them, and the desperate attempt to breed hybrids a struggle to stave off the death of their entire species. The boxed models are ones that have gone "bad," and they are running out of options. Might make for an interesting twist a ways doen the road. Could humans forgive the destruction of their species if it was an attempt to save another?

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 10:28 AM
More dramatic to stretch it out a bit, and watch him unravel under the tension.

Riffing off of tanstaafl's spoiler above:



Depends on how much they've had to drink.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 10:33 AM
......

I think there's no question they're unstable. There's the conflicted morality of the 6 and 8 models, which clearly makes working with them a serious risk-factor, as they're prone to sedition, at least under the conditions of this war. And just look at Leoben, for frak's sake. He even said that he's God (in a strictly mystical sense, I'm sure, but still). He's a loon! And what good is he? All he does is rant about swimming in the stream and seeing the patterns and so forth. I guess he's shown some effectiveness for psy-opps, but otherwise he seems fairly disconnected from the organizers, and I'd guess he's little interested in managing much of anything. Playing house with Kara seems to be only the sort of thing that he's motivated to do. He's no 5/Doral, that's for sure. I would have picked the Leoben model for boxing immediately, but if Xenabot is developing true delusions of Godhood, boxing her certainly does make more sense.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 10:34 AM
Oh, FRAK. Need some help with coding!

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 10:44 AM
Oh, FRAK. Need some help with coding!
I consider that to be speculation, and not spoiler material.

silenus
10-26-2006, 10:45 AM
Reported. Makes for some interesting speculation, doesn't it? :D

groo
10-26-2006, 12:13 PM
I love you people.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 12:14 PM
Many thanks, SM!!

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 01:16 PM
Individually, you're right. But taken all together, it shows that the colonists decided to restart civilization after reaching New Caprica. It was time for them to stop running and start living again.True, but then we can't say a same sex relationship wouldn't advance the plot if it were shown in the context of people moving on with their lives.

Besides Capt. Kelly, you know who else would be good? Lt. 'Catman' Birch. He was the guy Adama tried out as the CAG while Apollo was off being mutinous. I remember listening to the podcast for that episode (Home: pt. 1) and RDM said he felt bad for the actor because he'd probably never find a reason to use him again. But I remember him, and occasionally wonder what he's up to.

Regarding the current spoiler discussion: I think that's pretty cruddy Lucy Lawless took the role than changed her mind. How do you box an entire model series anyway? Wouldn't some of them run for it? Are the Cylons free to create a new model so there are still 12? I also would have picked Leoben for boxing, come to think of it. He's pretty well off his rocker.

Come to think of it, I saw something in the previews from last week's show I assumed we were going to see in this week's episode, but it didn't happen. It sure as heck looked like Adama was captured by the Cylons and he was talking to them. At one point he said "Apollo's leading them to Earth." Or something like that. I wonder what's up with that?

silenus
10-26-2006, 01:31 PM
Come to think of it, I saw something in the previews from last week's show I assumed we were going to see in this week's episode, but it didn't happen. It sure as heck looked like Adama was captured by the Cylons and he was talking to them. At one point he said "Apollo's leading them to Earth." Or something like that. I wonder what's up with that?

I think that is from Episodes 7 & 8. :eek:

Lightray
10-26-2006, 01:53 PM
I'm not quoting, because it's already looking like classified documents in here, but regarding the current spoiler under discussion:
From what I have read, it seemed like the decision to deactivate an entire Cylon model was made so that the Cylons would have casualties equivalent to the Colonials. Moore & co. are determined to show how high the danger is, so they're planning on killing off some significant -- and fan favored, apparently -- characters. They didn't want to leave the Cylons out of the carnage.

Lucy Lawless had apparently signed on for a limited run, anyway. Same, apparently, with Dean Stockwell. It'd be easy to write any of the Cylon models out other than Six or Boomer, and just bring them in for cameos. We haven't really seen Leoben or Doral show up that often, and Simon almost never.

Our only contact with the Cylons coming up seems like it will come through Baltar. Presumably, he'll be on a BaseStar -- and we don't know that all the Cylon models are represented on the BaseStars. For all we know, it will be Baltar, Six (= Lucifer), and his merry crew of hundreds of naked Boomers.

silenus
10-26-2006, 01:57 PM
If so, then James Callis has truly sold his soul, the lucky bastard!

As for Ron....well, that's big of him! :D

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 02:50 PM
I'm not quoting, because it's already looking like classified documents in here, but regarding the current spoiler under discussion:
Lucy Lawless had apparently signed on for a limited run, anyway. Same, apparently, with Dean Stockwell.

Regarding the same discussion:That strikes me as a very poor decision on RDM's part. He's only got 12 Cylon models. Why would you bring in big name actors for limited runs? He needs to find a way out of the "there are 12 models" trap, or choose his remaining models very carefully.

Unless his intention all along was to eventually end up with a small, core group of surviving Cylon models.

Subway Prophet
10-26-2006, 03:24 PM
If so, then James Callis has truly sold his soul, the lucky bastard!

As for Ron....well, that's big of him! :D

Reminds me of a joke from the Tiny Toons movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105598/):

Buster: But I can't marry both your daughters...that'd be bigamy!

Big Daddy Boo: No, that's big of ME.

(budda-boom *crash*) :D

silenus
10-26-2006, 03:29 PM
Bigamy: One wife too many

Monogamy: see Bigamy



Ow! Ow! Ow! Honey, it was a joke!

Grossbottom
10-26-2006, 03:41 PM
About that spoiler...

I think boxing Lawless is a good thing. She's one of the cast that just screams D-list bland television talent to me, and she always strikes a flat note compared with some of the better actors and actresses on the show. By far, she's my least favorite Cylon model. It's a good thing that she represents the bitch factor in human behavior, because that appears to be the limit of her range as an actress. Box her and ship her back to Stargate or wherever she came from, I say.

And I also think that in re: the no gay characters thing...

The evidence is legion. Where does he come from? We do not know. Parents? Right, they were 'nuked.' Convenient. Who has he laid in the fleet? No one...that we know of! Gaeta is not only gay, he's a Cylon. A gay Cylon. A gaylon.

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 03:50 PM
And I also think that in re: the no gay characters thing...

The evidence is legion. Where does he come from? We do not know. Parents? Right, they were 'nuked.' Convenient. Who has he laid in the fleet? No one...that we know of! Gaeta is not only gay, he's a Cylon. A gay Cylon. A gaylon.

A Gaylon! My dreams come true. Gay speculation doesn't need to be spoiler-boxed, I shouldn't think.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 03:58 PM
For all we know, it will be Baltar, Six (= Lucifer), and his merry crew of hundreds of naked Boomers.


Gaius Baltar: Darlinig!
Dina Six: Oh, I'm not that Six, I'm her sister Dina.
Gaius Baltar: Oh, well, sorry, I'm trying to...
Dinga: Where are you going?
GB: I seek my spiritual love child! I have seen it in this Basestar!
D6: Oh, no! Bad! Bad bad Six!
GB: What the frak?
D6: Oh wicked, bad, naughty Six! She's been stealing human babies again!
GB: You mean it's not a Cylon-human hybrid?
D6: Oh wicked, bad, naughty, evil Six! We have but one punishment on the Basestar for counterfeit hybrids! You must tie her to the bed, and spank her!
(about 100 8 models): A spanking! A spanking!
D6: You must spank her, and spank her well. And after you have spanked her, then spank me!
(Random 8's from the crowd) And me! And me! Me too!
D6: Yes, you must give us all a good spanking!
(8's): A spanking! A spanking!
D6: And after the spanking, The Twirl!
(8's): The Twirl! The Twirl!
GB: Well, that doesn't seem so bad...
Lee Adama: Doctor Baltar!
GB: Er, yes?
LA: Dr. Baltar, come quick!
GB: Do I have to?
LA: Dr. Baltar, you're in grave danger!
GB: I really don't think...
LA: Quick, the Galactica is coming with nukes!
GB: I think I'm quite alright. I can tackle this lot with my bare hands!
(All Cylons): Yes, let him tackle us with his bare hands!!
LA: Don't listen to them! (grabs Baltar) Come with me to the Raptor, NOW!
GB: No really! I can handle this lot easily!
(All Cylons): Yes, let him handle us easily!!!
GB: I can defeat them, I swear!
(All Cylons) Let him defeat us! We haven't a chance!
(LA and GB dissapear through the hatch)
D6: Oh, FRAK!

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 04:04 PM
Plagiarism raises it’s ugly head… :)

Corner Case
10-26-2006, 04:19 PM
But you didn't plagarise the best part! And the most relevant to the current discussion!

Lee Adama: We were in the nick of time. You were in great peril.
Gaius Baltar: I don't think I was.
Lee Adama: Yes, you were. You were in terrible peril.
Gaius Baltar: Look, let me go back in there and face the peril.
Lee Adama: No, it's too perilous.
Gaius Baltar: Look, it's my duty as a knight to sample as much peril as I can.
Lee Adama: No, we've got to find the Holy Grail. Come on.
Gaius Baltar: Oh, let me have just a little bit of peril?
Lee Adama: No. It's unhealthy.
Gaius Baltar: I bet you're gay.
Lee Adama: Am not.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 04:21 PM
Oh yes! Very good! Excellent, and quite perfect! Somebody should just email this to David Eick. I hear he's got a video blog. We need this as a skit!

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 04:25 PM
Try taking out some of the knight and Grail references, though!

jackdavinci
10-26-2006, 04:51 PM
Jammer will then live with the knowledge of his treachery hanging over him, where it will be exploited later by un-named parties, maybe another of the collaborators who also survived.

I just watched the episode again, and teared up again when Adama saluted Tigh. That alone makes up for the deus ex machina of Kaycee's mother walking by Starbuck at just the right time. Of course, if you really want to mess with your mind, what says that Kaycee's "mom" isn't a Cylon? :D

Some people were saying that Jammer was in the suicide bomber scene and should have been blown up and therefore might be a cylon. Can anyone confirm or deny this definitively?

The Adama-Tigh reunion was touching but I was hoping Adama would comfort Tigh with an actual hug upon learning about his loss rather than getting distracted by his fanclub.

I found it interesting that only the cylon agents that had already been revealed dared have a presence on New Caprica. Were they afraid that the humans would escape and they would still need their secret agents, or is it possible that they themeselves don't know who the other 5 models are?

The Tigh scene with his wife scene was tragic but interestingly written. I like how he didn't really do anything. She confesses, takes the cup on her own, and says she needs to sleep. If she new what was going on and commited suicide then this was very well written. If she wasn't aware then it was all a bit too pat.

All of Starbuck's plotline just didn't work for me. There was some interesting set up but it didn't seem to pay off. The fact that the girl was just a stolen human child used to mindfuck Starbuck was cool, but the instant discovery od said fact was cheesily portrayed. And how do Leoben's visions work? Could he really not sense the overwhelming insincerity of Starbuck's "I love you" in his vision? Or is this all a set up for something that happens later on? I love Starbuck and I love Leoben, but neither were well served the past few episodes. I hope I'm missing something that either was going on or was set up to happen later.

I hope they don't go overboard with the whole cylon collaborator thing. Whereas Tigh's wife and Baltor collaborated in a way that was traitorous (handing over secret documents that would lead to a mass execution), none of the other supposed collaborators were in my mind in the same category. I think the whole police force=collaborator thing was too copied from Iraq an unrealistic. I would much rather have a human police force than a cylon one. I can see if the police started comitting atrocities, but everyone was against anyone even thinking of even joining up.

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 04:59 PM
I found it interesting that only the cylon agents that had already been revealed dared have a presence on New Caprica.
Obviously a theatrical device for a TV show. Other might be there unseen do our Dear Viewers.

The fact that the girl was just a stolen human child used to mindfuck Starbuck was cool, but the instant discovery od said fact was cheesily portrayed.
Again, a theatrical device. They can't spend much time on it.

Could he really not sense the overwhelming insincerity of Starbuck's "I love you" in his vision?
Apparently Cylond also suffer from testosterone poisioning.

none of the other supposed collaborators were in my mind in the same category. I would much rather have a human police force than a cylon one. I can see if the police started comitting atrocities, but everyone was against anyone even thinking of even joining up.
Hey, they carted folks off to be killed, hiding behind ski masks like terrorists or a SWAT team. Bad boys.

carnivorousplant
10-26-2006, 05:02 PM
I would much rather have a human police force than a cylon one.

Let me rephrase. I would agree, if they were helping little old ladies across the street, but they were doing the dirty work for the Cylons, like the Vicky French gathering up Jews for the Nazis.

Corner Case
10-26-2006, 05:06 PM
Try taking out some of the knight and Grail references, though!Yes, we could substitute "president" for "a knight" and "Earth" for "the Holy Grail" - but then I wouldn't want to plagarise, oh no! Besides, Earth is the Holy Grail to some. For some it's a Basestar of naked Boomers. I'll just start to get worried if I hear some of those going after the collaborators start shouting, "Burn him! Burn him!"...

Gaeta: I'm not gay I'm not gay!
Tigh: But you are dressed as one
Gaeta: *They* dressed me up like this!
Crowd: We didn't! We didn't...
Gaeta: And this isn't my genitalia. It's a false one.
Tigh: [lifts up his false genitalia] Well?
Crew 1: Well, we did do the genitalia.
Tigh: The genitalia?
Crew 1: And the hat, but he is gay!
Crowd: Yeah! Burn him! Burn him!
Tigh: There are ways of telling whether he is gay.
Crew 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Tigh: Tell me. What do you do with the gay?
Crew 1: Burn them.
Tigh: And what do you burn, apart from the gay?
Crew 1: More gays.
Crew 2: Wood.
Tigh: Good. Now, why do the gay burn?
Crew 3: ...because they're made of... wood?
Tigh: Good. So how do you tell whether he is made of wood?
Crew 1: Build a bridge out of him.
Tigh: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Crew 1: Oh yeah.
Tigh: Does wood sink in water?
Crew 1: No, no, it floats!... It floats! Throw him into the hydrotanks!
Tigh: No, no. What else floats in water?
Crew 1: Bread.
Crew 2: Apples.
Crew 3: Very small rocks.
Crew 1: Cylons.
Crew 2: Gravy.
Crew 3: Hera.
Crew 1: Mud.
Crew 2: Churches.
Crew 3: Lead! Lead!
Adama: A Duck.
Tigh: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Crew 1: If he weighed the same as a duck... he's made of wood.
Tigh: And therefore...
Crew 2: ...gay!

What do they expect with a name like 'Gaeta'?

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 05:25 PM
Brilliant!

Lightray
10-26-2006, 09:09 PM
Although I'm all for BSG catching teh Gay, I'm not so keen on having Gaylons. I mean, they're modeled off humans, so if ~10% of humans are gay, then 10% of the Cylon models should be gay.

12 x 10% = 1.2 gay Cylon models

As far as I can tell, that leaves Cylon Gaeta dating... himself. Ick.

And maybe occasionally Simon, who's "just experimenting and isn't really that way." Because you know he's the model who's 0.2 gay -- we've seen how Doral and Leoben dress. They're straight.

;)

Tigh: No, no. What else floats in water?
Crew 1: Bread.
Crew 2: Apples.
Crew 3: Very small rocks.
Crew 1: Cylons.
Crew 2: Gravy.
Crew 3: Hera.

Oooh, good catch, that. Back to Baltar's Kobol visions. Well done!

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 09:36 PM
we've seen how Doral and Leoben dress. They're straight.Doral?? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MatthewBennett.jpg) He's about as straight as the letter "s." Public Relations. That's one step away from interior decorator on HGTV. :p

Lightray
10-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Doral?? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MatthewBennett.jpg)
Oh, Good Lord. I'd thought that orangey leisure suit jacket he wears was some cheap, polyester blend.

Is that... could it be... corderoy?!?!

Sweet, Cylon baby Jesus, it's worse than I thought.

They're supposed to be archetypes of humanity. Gay man in orange corderoy just doesn't strike me as archetypical.

Grossbottom
10-26-2006, 09:49 PM
Doral is totally a Gaylon.

Loopydude
10-26-2006, 09:51 PM
Are you suggesting that any self-respecting Gaylon would be caught dead and far, far from any resurrection ship in orange frakking corduroy?

alphaboi867
10-26-2006, 09:52 PM
...As far as I can tell, that leaves Cylon Gaeta dating... himself. Ick...

It'd take some pretty good CGI to pull off, but could make for some very bizarre and erotic scenes. :eek: :D

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Are you suggesting that any self-respecting Gaylon would be caught dead and far, far from any resurrection ship in orange frakking corduroy?But would a straight Cylon even know where to get orange corduroy? Let's face it. Girl had that tailored, and it look good. snap, snap. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Levdrakon/CyDorFiv.jpg)

Lightray
10-26-2006, 10:10 PM
snap, snap. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Levdrakon/CyDorFiv.jpg)
What does it have in its pocketses, Precious?

Seriously. It's like he's got his lunch stuffed in his pockets. He's like a Cylon "What Not To Wear" project.

Anyway, if Doral shows up with a tribal tattoo or a tramp stamp, maybe then I'll be convinced. Until then, its Gaylon Gaeta, all the way. (he already has the tattoo...)

levdrakon
10-26-2006, 10:25 PM
Anyway, if Doral shows up with a tribal tattoo or a tramp stamp, maybe then I'll be convinced. Until then, its Gaylon Gaeta, all the way. (he already has the tattoo...)Speaking of that, anyone else notice Starbuck & Anders are sportin' some rad tribal tattoos? Is that what they're doing in lieu of wedding rings on New Caprica?

Cat Whisperer
10-26-2006, 11:50 PM
Are you suggesting that any self-respecting Gaylon would be caught dead and far, far from any resurrection ship in orange frakking corduroy?
He's in deep, deep cover.


I like the wedding tattoos. My husband and I aren't much for the ink, but I have never thought of getting tattoos to declare our undying devotion to one another.