hebrew speakers - are you offended by Microsoft's profanity?

[Arnold Winkelried]

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/5051/061018zune/

Microsoft Zune: Doesn't sound sweet to everyone
IDG News Service 10/18/06

Jeremy Kirk, IDG News Service, London Bureau

Microsoft's forthcoming digital music player, dubbed Zune, may make some Hebrew speakers gasp. The name for the device -- which will take on the Apple iPod when released later this year -- sounds like a vulgarity, specifically the "f" word, in Hebrew.

Is this the straight dope?

[susan]

Does the standard pronunciation of "FAQ" trouble English speakers? It's about as close. That said, I wouldn't name my product Faq or Fug or anything similar for an English-speaking market.

[mobo85]

I think it's some sort of federally mandated law that any marketing textbook and/or story about a company working in foreign markets has to include the apocryphal "The Chevy Nova failed in Spanish-speaking countries since 'no va' means 'no go' in Spanish" story in it.

[GorillaMan]

I like this quote found via Google News (link (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=16202&Page=1&pagePos=5)):

In September, French-speaking Canadians noted that the word 'Zune' is a euphemism for male or female genitalia in the Quebec area.

I thought I was worldly-wise, but clearly not.....maybe somebody could guide this poor fool, and explain how to identify the 'quebec area', and exactly what genitalia I will encounter therein?

[susan]

exactly what genitalia I will encounter therein?Duh! "male and female"!

[Lynwood Slim]

I speak hebrew and know many other Hebrew speakers and it does not offend.

The Hebrew word for sexual intercourse is "zee-yoon".

[asterion]

Does the standard pronunciation of "FAQ" trouble English speakers? It's about as close. That said, I wouldn't name my product Faq or Fug or anything similar for an English-speaking market.
But FAQ is pronounced as the acronym. I don't know of anyone who pronounces it as a word.

[gazpacho]

But FAQ is pronounced as the acronym. I don't know of anyone who pronounces it as a word.You really have never heard someone say "fac" or something like it, rather than "eff aye queue"? I find that rather astounding.

[Derleth]

But FAQ is pronounced as the acronym. I don't know of anyone who pronounces it as a word.'Acronym' means pronounce it as a word. The word you're looking for is 'abbreviation'.

[susan]

Huh. I've never heard anyone say "ef ay que," only "fak." Ever, since 1987.

[Patty O'Furniture]

IMHO thread: Just the F.A.Q.'s, ma'am (pronunciation) (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=393077)

[Noone Special]

Not offended. It doesn't really sound similar -- there's no way that a Hebrew speaker will hear zoon and think Zee-yoon; there are simply too many extra vowels, and the root Z(OO)N has several other possible meanings (including "food" and "weapon")
More likely a Hebrew speaker will not the similarity between "zoon" and "zoom"

[chappachula]

also, -it isn't as obscene in Hebrew as it seems.
The word that sounds sort of (but not exactly) like "Zune" is NOT the equivalent of the English "f-word".
A better translation would be "to screw" or "get laid".
So it's not quite as obscene, even if I still wouldnt recommend using it in business.

But in any case, most Hebrew speakers wouldnt care.

[Hilarity N. Suze]

I like this quote found via Google News (link (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=16202&Page=1&pagePos=5)):


In September, French-speaking Canadians noted that the word 'Zune' is a euphemism for male or female genitalia in the Quebec area.
I thought I was worldly-wise, but clearly not.....maybe somebody could guide this poor fool, and explain how to identify the 'quebec area', and exactly what genitalia I will encounter therein?

What ISN'T a euphemism for some manner of genitalia or other, somewhere in the world? Won't anyone think of the Richard Johnsons of the world? How about people named Wang? How about people named Dong? Etc....

[susan]

I sometimes administer a test called the Woodcock-Johnson, and have worked on a psychiatric ward called the Johnson Unit.

[psychonaut]

You really have never heard someone say "fac" or something like it, rather than "eff aye queue"?What's an FIQ?

[Alessan]

also, -it isn't as obscene in Hebrew as it seems.
The word that sounds sort of (but not exactly) like "Zune" is NOT the equivalent of the English "f-word".
A better translation would be "to screw" or "get laid".

No, it means "fuck" (the noun, to be specific). It's just that Israelis aren't that touchy when it comes to obscenities.

[anyrose]

What's an FIQ?
:D:D So, when may I expect a new keyboard from you? :D:D

FWIW, when iI read FAQ, I "hear" in my mind "fack" to rhyme with stack or quack
The name of the product discussed in this thread, to me, is pronounced "zoon" to rhyme with prune or soon.
I used to speak Hebrew (I can still read it at services but don't ask me to translate) and I never heard that word as slang or a vulgarity, or even at all for that matter. But thanks for teaching me a new one! :)

[Martha Medea]

The British pronunciation of zune (zyoon) comes closer to the Hebrew "ziyoon", so you never know.

the root Z(OO)N has several other possible meanings (including "food" and "weapon")
Amos Oz describes brilliantly in his autobiography A Tale of Love and Darkness how as a young lad he attended a speech by Menachem Begin, and couldn't keep a straight face when Begin spoke earnestly about having to 'arm the nation', clearly oblivious to the more common use of the word.

[John Mace]

No, it means "fuck" (the noun, to be specific). It's just that Israelis aren't that touchy when it comes to obscenities.
So, there isn't a harsher or more derogatory term in Hebrew for "fuck"?

[susan]

So, there isn't a harsher or more derogatory term in Hebrew for "fuck"?When I was in Israel, Israelis used English or Arabic obscenities for emphasis.

[Beware of Doug]

Then there's the occasional list of Frequently Unasked Questions= FUQ.

[Noone Special]

The British pronunciation of zune (zyoon) comes closer to the Hebrew "ziyoon", so you never know.Yes, I thought of that too -- it would actually come quite close. I suspect that, if pronounces the british way, it will be a HUGE hit with teenagers when it gets here -- "hey, honey, ya want a [zyoon]?" ;) The possibilities are endless! 'Course, that will be the time some tight-asses will choose to be offended.
Too bad we're all too far Americanized -- it will almost certainly be called "Zoon." I would have loved to see the looks on some people's faces otherwise! :D

Amos Oz describes brilliantly in his autobiography A Tale of Love and Darkness how as a young lad he attended a speech by Menachem Begin, and couldn't keep a straight face when Begin spoke earnestly about having to 'arm the nation', clearly oblivious to the more common use of the word. Heh, yesterday I almost mentioned the old term for the erstwhile US-USSR "Arms Race" -- which was "Merotz HaZiyoon" it took not only Menachem Begin many years to figure out that they had better start talking about "Merotz haKhimush" if they don't want to get jeered at every time [*cough* State Radio *cough*]. I suspect similar things must have happened to Americans who insisted for slightly over-long that the word "gay" is a perfectly good synonym for "happy"...

[Alessan]

So, there isn't a harsher or more derogatory term in Hebrew for "fuck"?
I'd say euphamisms like litchon ("grind") or litko'a ("stick" or "nail") are worse. Hebrew is funny that way - indirect speech can be worse than direct.

When I was in Israel, Israelis used English or Arabic obscenities for emphasis.
You have to remember that Hebrew, as spoken today, is barely a century old - it has relatively few "organic" obscenities. An Israeli stubbing his toe has very few choices when it comes to Hebrew utterences; in all likelihood he'll end up saying "sheet" (English) or "coosochtoc" (Arabic) or possibly "kibinimaat" (I dunno, Russian?). But what can you say about a language where the most common way of saying farewell is the phrase "Yallah bye"?

[susan]

When I was there in the mid-80's there was a bumpersticker with the legend "al tidfak oti cmo ha-Histadru" (pardon my 2-decade-old transliteration), which I assumed was a play on the root DFK meaning "knock" in both the sense of "bump into my car" and "bang" in a sexual sense. Tame enough to go on bumperstickers, though.

The root ZYN is found in the word under discussion, "the letter z," "weapon," and "penis."

[Noone Special]

When I was there in the mid-80's there was a bumpersticker with the legend "al tidfak oti cmo ha-Histadru" (pardon my 2-decade-old transliteration), which I assumed was a play on the root DFK meaning "knock" in both the sense of "bump into my car" and "bang" in a sexual sense. Tame enough to go on bumperstickers, though.Actually the secondary meaning (other than "don't bang my car") in this sticker whould have been "don't fuck me over," exactly as used by Americans to describe what they feel an unscrupulous employer (or, as in this case, union) was doing to them. Exact same meaning and connotations, exact same play on the sexual background of the word.

The root ZYN is found in the word under discussion, "the letter z," "weapon," and "penis."Many or even most Hebrew letter names are words in their own right -- in this case, "the letter Z," or zayin, being the old Hebrew word for weapon.
Additionally, the exact same root, or possibly the very-closely-related ZWN (Zayin-Vav-Nun), also means "nourishment" or "food" (e.g.,mazon). A common attempt to avoid the obvious by Biblical scholars is to claim that Rahab of Jericho was a "Food provider" (Zona in the sense of one who provides mazon) rather than a Lady of the Night :rolleyes:

[susan]

Thanks. I'd wondered if zona was from a related shoresh. There's a women's clothing store called Zona near the university, and the sign always makes me laugh.

[Noone Special]

Thanks. I'd wondered if zona was from a related shoresh. There's a women's clothing store called Zona near the university, and the sign always makes me laugh.Heh. Which reminds me of the Giggle Attack I got when driving on the Italian autostrada and coming upon the sign pointing to the nearby Zona Industriella (industrial zone)

[susan]

Nice!

[brownie55]

I sometimes administer a test called the Woodcock-Johnson, and have worked on a psychiatric ward called the Johnson Unit.
Is the Johnson Unit the one males swear is six inches, but only looks like four when measured with a ruler?

[Noone Special]

Yes, I thought of that too -- it would actually come quite close. I suspect that, if pronounces the british way, it will be a HUGE hit with teenagers when it gets here -- "hey, honey, ya want a [zyoon]?" ;) The possibilities are endless! 'Course, that will be the time some tight-asses will choose to be offended.OK, I'm committing not one, but two faux pas here by both bumping an old(-ish) thread and replying to myself... but.
I happened to be in a record store today. One teen-ager was telling the other about the Zune. He was definitely, happily and smirkingly talking about the "Ziyun" -- as, almost immediately, was his friend. So, as I semi-predicted, the name of the contraption, at least, is becoming a hit in its own right... :D The offenderati cannot be far behind, of course. I'm sure we'll be hearing from them soon enough :p