Give me your full name! It's the law!

[Aunt Flow]

Long story short, I work at an emergency vet. We got in a rather irrate lady today who found some of the staff extremely rude. For the record, they weren't. She was just overreacting. But anyway, she wanted names. I told her the names of the two she was displeased with and gave her our complaint email address. Not good enough. She wanted last names. I told her they'd know who she was talking about in the email. Still no go. Demanded names and said that by law, whenever dealing with people in a service industry, full names were public domain and she had a right to them. At this point the doctor stepped in (thank god) and basically told her we don't give out last names and that first names would suffice and sent her on her way.

So...is there such a law? At least in Oregon? She seemed pretty irked and mumbled about having friends in law enforcement. We're not worried or anything but I was just curious.

[BrandonR]

IANAL but I highly doubt it... Everywhere I've worked in the past seemed to be moving in the opposite direction, such as obscuring team members' last names in the light of privacy and protection of the employees. Never heard of any such law requiring people to give their names in such a situation...

[Green Bean]

I'd be VERY surprised if such a law existed, especially these days when we're so much more aware of issues like stalking and identity theft.

I would refuse to give my last name to a seemingly irrational customer. My first name would be enough to identify me to whomever they're complaining to, as I am the only person with that name that works for the company. That should be sufficient for anyone with a legitimate gripe.

Perhaps there is something out there somewhere which states that people in certain service professions must provide enough information to be uniquely identifiable, whether it be a full name or an ID number or something?

Then again, people seem to know a lot of "laws" that don't really exist.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

<Hrumph>

If there is such a law, it oughtta be called the "Human-Hot-Air-Dirigible" Law.


Too-too self-important. Ignore her.

[Nava]

I can just picture giving my full name to someone like that... Real name changed to protect the innocent, but how long do you think it would take her to write down something like

María de los Ángeles Díez de Sádaba Gorricho

and of course, it's not valid if it doesn't have the accents!

[Hypno-Toad]

Down here in Florida, we have Sunshine Laws that are intended to prevent the government from operating in secrecy. The side effect of preventing efficiency is just a happy perk. I don't think that I'm allowed to keep my name secret since I'm an employee of a government agency. It's part of the public record therefore can be demanded by a citizen. However, any time information is requested of my record, I would be notified and told by whom it was requested. There exceptions to this such as police and judges, who might be targeted for vengeance.

But for private companies? I think they can tell you to piss up a rope if want to know about any employees info. In fact, they can tell you to piss up a rope for any reason at all. It's just whether or not they want to lose a customer.

[Beware of Doug]

María de los Ángeles Díez de Sádaba Gorricho"My name is Michael Hunt. My associate here is Richard Hertz."

[Gfactor]

rather irrate lady today who found some of the staff extremely rude. For the record, they weren't. She was just overreacting.
I'm shocked.


Demanded names and said that by law, whenever dealing with people in a service industry, full names were public domain and she had a right to them.

Public domain? So she's got the right to copy them? Obviously its possible that there is a statute says something like this, and she sounds like an idiot, so maybe she used the wrong words. (Or maybe you are paraphrasing). But public domain isn't a concept that matches the kind of law she's talking about. Which is a mark of a legal urban legend.

So...is there such a law? At least in Oregon? She seemed pretty irked and mumbled about having friends in law enforcement. We're not worried or anything but I was just curious.

Heck, anything is possible. I looked around a bit, and found nothing. Didn't expect to. Never seen one like that.

A few times when I worked in service-oriented jobs, I had a customer demand my full name. The conversation went something like this:

G: Sir. Please exit the store.
C: This is an outrage. I demand to speak to a manager.
G: Fine. He'll be in tomorrow at nine. You can call or stop by then.
C: I want your name.
G: The proper spelling is on my nametag.
C: What's your last name?
G: Why? Are you going to call me at home?
C: I need your full name in order to complain about you.
G: ::Looking around:: Sir, I'm the only Gfactor here right now, I doubt the manager will be confused.
C: I demand your full name.
G: Um . . . let me think . . . nope, sorry.
C: You have to give it to me.
G: I'll tell you what.
C: Huh?
G: It'll be on the police report.
C: What police report?
G: The one that will be completed when the police arrive to remove you from the store. Please exit the store.
C: I've got rights yanno.
G: The officers will explain those to you in a few moments. Can I help the next customer?

[Wile E]

We get those too. We told them the same thing, we don't give out full names of staff and all they need is the first name to complain about them. When someone continued to complain that it was "the law" we did offer to call the police and ask. This person was very likely intoxicated, so they definitely didn't want us to call the police. At some other point we did find out, either from a cop or lawyer, that there is no such law.

[Gary T]

"It's the law? Then by all means call the police and have me arrested."

[RealityChuck]

"Which law is that? What's the statute number?"

[Ponder Stibbons]

The more someone yells about what they want is "the law", the less likely it is that they know anything about the law.

[Bear_Nenno]

If your last names are Public Record, tell her to go look them up.

[Elendil's Heir]

The more someone yells about what they want is "the law", the less likely it is that they know anything about the law.

Amen, amen, alleluia!

If I need to know the name of a service provider or someone I spoke to on the phone in some vast bureaucracy (far more often than not, just so that I can get back in touch with that person when/if there needs to be some follow-through), I'll ask for just a first name, and then ask, "Is there anyone else named [firstname] who works there?" If not, well and good. If yes, I'll ask for some other identifier, an employee number or the like.

[Mister Rik]

The law she mentioned is, I believe right next to the law that says the customer is always right.

:D

[Rick]

I too vote for the lady was a wingnut.
What may have been confusing her is when you are arrested, you do have to give your name to the Police. Your name is not covered under the "I don't have to talk to you until my Lawyer gets here" rule.

[Hampshire]

If I had a dime for every customer I had to deal with that told me it was the law that I did what they demanded, well (you know the rest).

Working as a manager in retail through 7 holidays seasons you hear about everything.

"You sold one to my brother-in-law last week for $x. You have to sell it to me for that price now. It's the law."

"I know you closed 20 minutes ago. But I can see some people still shopping in there. You have to therefore let me in to shop too. It's the law."

"It's not my fault someone accidentally placed this $500 radio on a shelf that says $100. You now have to sell it to me for $100. It's the law."

"I know you have a 30 day return policy. But I bought this 8 months ago and never used it. You have to give me my money back. It's the law."

"You gave me a raincheck for the $500 laptop. Now your telling me that they aren't shipping anymore of that model. You must substitute the $1000 model in it's place. It's the law."

(I could literally go on for days....)

I've been sworn at, cursed at, shoved, had items thrown at me, been told I would be sued, been told I would be on channel 5 news that night, been told I would be in the newspaper, etc.
7 years and I never got sued, got in the newspaper, or wound up on the news.

[Analogue Skywalker]

If I had a dime for every customer I had to deal with that told me it was the law that I did what they demanded, well (you know the rest).

Working as a manager in retail through 7 holidays seasons you hear about everything.



"You gave me a raincheck for the $500 laptop. Now your telling me that they aren't shipping anymore of that model. You must substitute the $1000 model in it's place. It's the law."



A bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the fraudster lures in customers by advertising a good at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute good is


This could be percieved as a bait and switch, and courts have ruled to sue.

[Rigamarole]

"Which law is that? What's the statute number?"

Along these lines, I would just say "OK, well have your lawyer send us a letter outlining the relevant statutes and we'll get back to you."

That should be effective.

[Martiju]

"It's not my fault someone accidentally placed this $500 radio on a shelf that says $100. You now have to sell it to me for $100. It's the law."



And maybe slightly different from described, but over here goods priced wrongly - or at least where there is no indication that they are a different price to as displayed (eg. 12 identical radios on a shelf that say $100 underneath) are to be sold at the advertised price.

[Gfactor]

A bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the fraudster lures in customers by advertising a good at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute good is


This could be percieved as a bait and switch, and courts have ruled to sue.

Bait and switch is when you publish an advertisement for something that you don't intend to sell. Here the product just costs more than the customer thought because it was put back on the wrong shelf. The merchant intends to sell it at the correct price. Under some circumstances mispriced items can still be a problem, but bait and switch isn't what it is called:

Sec. 238.0 Bait advertising defined.1

Bait advertising is an alluring but insincere offer to sell a product or service which the advertiser in truth does not intend or want to sell. Its purpose is to switch consumers from buying the advertised merchandise, in order to sell something else, usually at a higher price or on a basis more advantageous to the advertiser. The primary aim of a bait advertisement is to obtain leads as to persons interested in buying merchandise of the type so advertised. (Emphasis added.) http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

[Gary T]

"You gave me a raincheck for the $500 laptop. Now your telling me that they aren't shipping anymore of that model. You must substitute the $1000 model in it's place. It's the law."
A bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the fraudster lures in customers by advertising a good at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute good is.

This could be percieved as a bait and switch, and courts have ruled to sue.
The point in Hampshire's example is the customer asserting that an item at twice the value "must" be substituted. No. A store would be wise to, and may be legally required to, offer an equivalent item at the advertised price, but the customer is not entitled to demand an upgrade of that magnitude.

[Risha]

And maybe slightly different from described, but over here goods priced wrongly - or at least where there is no indication that they are a different price to as displayed (eg. 12 identical radios on a shelf that say $100 underneath) are to be sold at the advertised price.I don't believe that to be the case is the U.S. I'm not a lawyer, but I definitely recall one of the examples from my business law course covered a similar situation. A newspaper ad had a misprint that far understated the cost of a sewing machine. The customer that they refused to sell it to at that price sued them. The ruling was that an advertised price is an invitation to buy, not a contract, so the shop could refuse to sell to that person.

[Gfactor]

The ruling was that an advertised price is an invitation to buy, not a contract, so the shop could refuse to sell to that person.

It's an invitation to make an offer at the advertised price. When the customer shows up and tenders the purchase price, the merchant can refuse the offer. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mo&vol=/appeals/012001/&invol=8013001_2001 This rule has been modified by statute and caselaw in some jurisdictions. E.g., http://www.consumer.state.ny.us/clahm/clahm-falseadvertising.htm#Deceptive%20Business%20Practices

Mistakes in price advertising are generally forgiven.

13. If a store says there was a price mistake in an ad, do they still have to sell the advertised item at the advertised price?

Not necessarily. Mistakes can happen, and advertisements have usually been viewed by the Courts as mere offers to deal, not creating any binding obligation on the part of the merchant. If there has been a mistake, the merchant should take prompt action to correct it, for instance, by placing a correction ad in the newspaper and posting a sign in the store.

However, it often pays to speak up and let the merchant know you're unhappy. Many merchants are sufficiently concerned about customer relations to make an adjustment for a customer who has been inconvenienced because of a mistake.

If a particular merchant makes repeated "mistakes" in advertising, it may be a matter for OCP to investigate. Too many "mistakes" might add up to a deceptive trade practice. http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/ocptmpl.asp?url=/content/ocp/consumer/freq_ask_quest.asp#thirteen

[Dr_Paprika]

Sigh. I work in a busy emergency department. Some people can be remarkably self-absorbed and will complain and threaten to call their lawyers over the most minimal perceived slight. I have seen people walk into a "code blue" demanding a glass of water right now. I have seen people swear at the staff about having to wait five minutes since their spouse had ear infection pain for the last thirty minutes. The vast majority of people are patient, and the most of complaints are fairly trivial. But I have been in your situation a few times. My name is written on their chart and on their armband and I don't mind giving them my name, but I won't tell them those of other emergency staff.

[Little Nemo]

Like Hypno-Toad, I'm a government employee and I am required to give my name to people if they ask. But I doubt very much there's any law in this country requiring private citizens, like the employees of a vet clinic, to do the same.

[Martini Enfield]

The correct response to a demand for your name is:

"I am Sancho".

If the customer demands a last name, you should look confused and hurt, and tell them:

"I am Sancho. Are you Sancho? No, you are not Sancho. There are many Toms, and many Geoffs in the world, but only *I*... am Sancho." :D

As for the price thing- most price tags (on shelves) here have an item description on them for that very reason. If a Widget is accidentally put back on the shelf in the space for a Thingy (and the Thingy price ticket clearly identifies it as a Thingy), then the store doesn't have to sell it at that price.

However, if an UltraWidget is accidentally put back on the shelf in the place for a SuperWidget (ie, the two items are similar and it's reasonable someone might think that was the price), then the store will generally sell it at the lower price.

Hampshire, have you discovered that 90% of people who want to Talk To The Manager usually want something that any other staff member could have taken care of for them? I've just taken over the Assistant Manager's role at work and that's certainly been my experience thus far...