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Malienation
11-12-2006, 11:42 PM
I am 44 y.o. and a regular gym goer. I have noticed recently that men in locker rooms seem more modest than they used to be. They are less likely to face the common area of the locker room when they change and guys that shower seem to try pretty hard to avoid exposing themselves on the way to and on the way back from the showers. Thing is, it's mostly younger guys. Older guys (especially older than 50) seem to care less. Also, guys with better bodies are more self-conscious. WTF?

Am I imagining things? And why would this be so? :confused: A lesbian acquaintance I mentioned this to suggested homophobia, but I'm not convinced by any means. :dubious: And the better looking guys: better looking because they're self-conscious, and thus highly motivated to look better? Guys?

FWIW, I am in pretty good shape but a little heavy (205, 5' 10 3/4"). I'm a let it all hang out kinda guy. :cool:

iano
11-12-2006, 11:59 PM
Perhaps high school and such... it's my impression that showing in high school is now atypical, but for people over 50, presumably it was?

Walloon
11-13-2006, 12:04 AM
I've noticed this too, and I can't explain it. We had group showers at my high school, group showers at my college, group showers at my college fraternity, group showers in the locker rooms when I was working as a journalist, and group showers at my old health club. It was no big deal. But the health club's new building has individual showers, and I don't know if it's sad or funny to see these younger guys carefully trying to pull their underwear on underneath the towel wrapped around their waist.

"In my day, we used to streak, you know, run around naked!" :eek:

Fiveyearlurker
11-13-2006, 12:06 AM
It's funny. I was going to ask the question from the opposite direction.

I am one of those guys (30 years old now) who puts his underwear on under his towel. No reason for it, really. I think people my age and younger were never in locker rooms all naked together.

I've had this talk with friends about what it is about you old folks that makes you so comfortable walking around naked in locker rooms!

TheLoadedDog
11-13-2006, 12:07 AM
I've noticed it too. In my work locker room, there was only ever one guy who would strip down completely, and the others complained about it.

I have had gay friends who were really fussy about it, to the point of using the stalls in preference to the urinals. One of them even told me that outside of a sexual context, he found nudity offensive.

matt_mcl
11-13-2006, 12:10 AM
One of my friends noted that (much to his irritation) many of the swimmers at the Athens Olympics were wearing body suits instead of speedos, or otherwise covering up excessively.

Frosted Glass
11-13-2006, 12:11 AM
Perhaps high school and such... it's my impression that showing in high school is now atypical, but for people over 50, presumably it was?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of my peers (I am 22) never had to shower for gym in school so people in my generation really are not used to getting naked in front of people. Between swimming when I was younger and track in college, I have grown accustomed to changing in front of people so to me it is a non-factor.

Walloon
11-13-2006, 12:11 AM
I think people my age and younger were never in locker rooms all naked together.Didn't you have gym class in high school? Didn't you ever play a team sport?

iano
11-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Didn't you have gym class in high school? Didn't you ever play a team sport?

In my district showering was required for neither. In fact, the showers were only really on if there was a dance after school or such, something which prevented people from going home to shower and dress. It's probably for the best, since it was so unusual that when it did happen, some jokers would invariably strike up conversations with whoever walked by, approaching them completely normal with a kind "are you freaked out yet?" grin on their face. :dubious:

Walloon
11-13-2006, 12:27 AM
Forget about "required", weren't you stinky and sweaty after gym class? Didn't you want to shower off after all that?

Malienation
11-13-2006, 12:30 AM
It's funny. I was going to ask the question from the opposite direction.

I am one of those guys (30 years old now) who puts his underwear on under his towel. No reason for it, really. I think people my age and younger were never in locker rooms all naked together.

I've had this talk with friends about what it is about you old folks that makes you so comfortable walking around naked in locker rooms!Ummmm....it's a locker room? :confused:

Rigamarole
11-13-2006, 12:32 AM
Didn't you have gym class in high school? Didn't you ever play a team sport?

We didn't shower after my high school gym class (I'm class of '03, for perspective), just changed clothes and (maybe) swiped some deodorant on. In retrospect, kind of gross. But I would have been terrified of showering in front of other guys in high school (I was overweight and terribly self-conscious. Changing my shorts and shirt was hard enough for me. I always did it in the corner if I could).

Nowadays, I don't go to the gym but if I did, I wouldn't mind stripping completely and taking a nice shower at all (in fact, I would prefer to. I hate leaving any sweat on me).

treis
11-13-2006, 12:42 AM
Forget about "required", weren't you stinky and sweaty after gym class? Didn't you want to shower off after all that?

We rarely got enough time to shower.

Mr. Excellent
11-13-2006, 12:42 AM
Forget about "required", weren't you stinky and sweaty after gym class? Didn't you want to shower off after all that?

I, for one, made it a point of pride to never break a sweat in phys ed. Strangely, I also never broke past a "B" in that class. Eh, it was worth it.

/Enjoys fond memories of slacking.

Gridnak
11-13-2006, 12:50 AM
I'm in the gym fairly often, 2 to 3 times a week ,and I've noticed the same thing. I remember seeing a younger guy actually showering in his underwear and doing a WTF?

Personally, I had any kind of locker room modesty burned out of me at the academy. I don't know how it is now, but when I was there the locker room down on the practice fields had toilet stalls with no doors on them. And...there were two rows of them facing each other. There's nothing quite like wiping your ass in front of a row of people to slap the whole modesty thing down the drain.

Bobotheoptimist
11-13-2006, 01:05 AM
Didn't you have gym class in high school?Hell, I didn't have gym in high school - it wasn't required even way back in '86.

And frankly, I don't want naked dudes around me.

Rodgers01
11-13-2006, 01:34 AM
I think you're right -- it's a function of not having ever had to do group showers at school. When I was growing up (I'm 26) I never once had to shower in school: the most we ever had to do in gym class was change our shirts and put on gym shorts over our underwear. I was worried we'd have to shower, but it wasn't even an option: the shower room hadn't been used so long, the school was using it as a storage room. I don't remember worrying about being sweaty and smelling -- I guess we just used deodorant and dealt with it. No open showers in college either.

If I can expostulate for a minute, I think there's another, larger reason at work here: a lot of younger people have never had to share much, period. In the past couple decades, birth rates have fallen, and average size of houses has grown larger. My impression is that in the "old days" you'd often have pretty big families (3+ kids) living in small-ish houses: everyone would have to share one bathroom, a couple siblings might have to share a bedroom, everyone would have to fight over one TV and wait their turn to use one telephone. People were, in general, bumping into one another a lot more. Nowadays, you have much smaller families living in much bigger houses. Most kids have never had to share a bedroom. Many of them have their own TV, and even their own private bathroom. Virtually all of them seem to have their own phones. I've read a couple articles where colleges are rushing to build individual dorm rooms, because incoming students don't want to have roommates -- they've never had to live in close quarters with anyone, and they don't want to. (My first roommate in college fit this profile -- he very clearly had never had to adjust to living with someone else before.) I'd guess somewhere in that transition it became unthinkable to have open showers.

Walloon
11-13-2006, 02:07 AM
Bowling Alone (http://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046/sr=1-1/qid=1163401386/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4970421-3188820?ie=UTF8&s=books).

Tomcat
11-13-2006, 08:14 AM
Boy, most of y'all would have a real problem here...Some places I go to here will give people the key to the opposite sex locker room if your's is full. I've had to say "Pardon me ladies, this won't take but a 'sec." and had to change there. And no, I didn't put my underwear on underneath a towel.

I wonder if there is a connection to rising childhood obesity levels and the fact that kids don't play sports hard enough to require showers? I went to high school in the mid-late 80's and showering was a requirement because we sweated our butts off.

-Tcat

Edward The Head
11-13-2006, 08:42 AM
If you're looking for naked men you'll have to find a swim team. There are only a couple of guys on the team that don't strip down naked after swimming. We even take nude showers together. Guess it comes from seeing damn near everything anyway.

Fiveyearlurker
11-13-2006, 09:31 AM
Didn't you have gym class in high school? Didn't you ever play a team sport?

Gym class? Yes. Like others have said, no showering afterwards. You had 3 minutes once class ended to get to your next class. How could you possibly shower? In retrospect, it's not pleasant, but no one thought anything about it at the time.

Team sports were always after school was over. You finished, went home and showered there.

StinkyBurrito
11-13-2006, 10:18 AM
Gym class? Yes. Like others have said, no showering afterwards. You had 3 minutes once class ended to get to your next class. How could you possibly shower? In retrospect, it's not pleasant, but no one thought anything about it at the time.

Team sports were always after school was over. You finished, went home and showered there.
I will echo the above from my experiences. But I would have to say in high school, we played a lot of golf and some bowling. Everyonce in a while we played a game of softball in the gym so we never really got all that sweaty.

Nowadays, (I am in my mid twenties) I hang out naked in the locker and steam rooms and shower naked when I go to the gym. It is kind of fun in a free and liberating kind of way.

alphaboi867
11-13-2006, 10:37 AM
Showering wasn't required (class of '03) and the showers were almost never used. We just changed shirts and shorts over our underwear (& most guys were reluctent to have both off at the same time). Some of the sports teams showered after practice and occasionally jocks would shower if they had gym in the mornings. Nobody changed in stalls though (no doors). I hated gym (and all the male PE teachers) and skipped as much as possible. I didn't shower simply because none of the other boys showered. If they did I would have. From 10-13 I went to a "Christian" summer camp. There were stalls, but they only went up halfway didn't curtains. My 1st night I (along with with alot of other boys) kept our underwear on. After I was done I realized how pointless it was to shower in tighty-whities. By the end of the week our counselors had to keep reminding us not to walk outside out tents naked and everybody slept naked. We even made fun of the more modest boys. It's all about peer presure.

Hampshire
11-13-2006, 11:11 AM
I guess I fall into the category of "just take care of your business and get dressed".
I don't mind guys undressing in front of me / undressing in front of them, showering with them in the same area, going to and from the showers, getting dressed together, etc.
But geez, it just creeps me out when these old guys want to hang out nude striking up conversations with people and strolling around the locker room like it's the "nude dudes social club".
Then they go up to the sinks to shave, etc. without putting a towel around their waist and lay their junk right up on the counter.

Just take care of your showering/clothes changing needs and either get dressed or put a towel on.
I joined a gym, not a men's bath house.

Fiveyearlurker
11-13-2006, 11:19 AM
I used to work out at a predominantly gay gym (in Chelsea, in New York). I can tell you that I felt no different about it there, than I do now. I like to be naked in groups as little as possible. If I drop trow, the towel is ready to be wrapped. If I remove towel, the underwear is ready to go on. Gay gym, straight gym didn't matter. So, I really don't think homophobia is an issue in this at all.

Hijack:

Interestingly, for reasons that escaped me, one of my current gyms (though not predominantly gay, certainly has a large gay clientele) has shower stalls, but no curtains. The women's locker room, I'm assured has curtains. My gay buddy laughed at me when brought it up, and he said, "Why do you think we're all in such good shape around here."

GrizzRich
11-13-2006, 11:22 AM
I'm an gym-rat (age 46). That is, I'm a heavy weight lifter; in both senses (a heavy weightlifter AND a heavyweight lifter). I've noticed a similar trend.

I think it's a products of the more "tender" ways that schools are treating students these days. You know, don't want to have ANYONE being offended, so certain things are done away with. Seems that communal showers were one of the things that have been quietly shuttered.

But, jeez, showers used as STORAGE AREAS?!
You'd at least think the sports teams would use them after practice and games!
After football practice at school, I was sometimes LITERALLY covered in mud.

Ethilrist
11-13-2006, 11:23 AM
Boy, most of y'all would have a real problem here...Some places I go to here will give people the key to the opposite sex locker room if your's is full. I've had to say "Pardon me ladies, this won't take but a 'sec." and had to change there. And no, I didn't put my underwear on underneath a towel.
In H. Allen Smith's The Complete Practical Joker, he mentions an infamous stagehand from the days of Vaudeville who would walk through the women's dressing room. He'd yell "Close your eyes, ladies, I'm coming through..."

Re: the OP, we had group showers in high school and college, and I never really gave it a thought about walking around nekkid. About ten years ago I was a member at Bally's, and again with the walking around nekkid. Now, the gym I use is at work, and there's not so much walking around naked, most people wrap a towel around their waist even though it's only about twenty feet from the lockers to the showers. There are still a few guys who walk around nekkid, but we also have a few on the other end of the scale who go fully dressed to the showers (individual stalls which have a pre-shower stall with hooks on the walls) and do all their changing there, and a few guys who don't even shower after working out. Their co-workers must love them.

you with the face
11-13-2006, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=HampshireThen they go up to the sinks to shave, etc. without putting a towel around their waist and lay their junk right up on the counter.[/QUOTE]

There's one chick who does this at my gym. While she doesn't quite lay her "junk right up on the counter", she does spend a lot of time walking around without any clothes on. It doesn't freak me out or anything, but I do wonder why she does it.

wolfman
11-13-2006, 11:43 AM
When I was in high school we were one of the last classes that did naked showering. It was kind of stupid because we had a total of 40 seconds to enter shower. dry off, and get dressed before the end of class. It was simply a matter of conforming, cause no showering was ever done. The showers were turned on and everybody dropped clothes, walked in a single unwavering line under the showerheads, and out the other door grabbed a towel wrapped it around, and hoped to get back to your clothes before they were thrown in the toilet.

Everybody aimed for the median path. the guys who were scared to get naked and covering themselves got picked on a wusses, and the guys who lingered too long naked were showing themselves and picked on as gay.

That's still how I operate today I guess. While showering, naked, but not more than 5 seconds before or after the water is on. And I do look for some privacy and face the wall before towling off butch and sundance.

HMS Irruncible
11-13-2006, 11:48 AM
Am I imagining things? And why would this be so? :confused: A lesbian acquaintance I mentioned this to suggested homophobia, but I'm not convinced by any means. :dubious: And the better looking guys: better looking because they're self-conscious, and thus highly motivated to look better? Guys?

The gym is a little different as far as nudity goes, in my opinion. In a nudist type environment, the sexuality is dealt with up front and everybody understands that whatever sexual issues you bring up are your own. The purpose is to be naked, openly and often. A mens' locker room can be a little different... not because everyone is cruising for sex (although some occasionally are), but because there is nudity in a place where sexuality is a concern but nobody really knows where each person stands. I think maybe 30 years ago, most men in the locker room never dreamed that it was a place of any sexuality at all (or if they did, they absolutely did not let on), but it's a slightly different world now.

Personally, I don't really care who sees my body. But I know if I cavalierly flaunt my goods, others may wrongly see it as sort of a sexual advertisement. Of those who saw it that way, some would be offended and some would be attracted. Since I'm not trying to create those situations, and it's not a requirement that I show off my package to the world, I practice just a bit of basic modesty. Nothing like hiding under a towel to cover each and every single exposure, just dressing with face to the wall, not lounging around for a half hour with my legs splayed apart, etc.

CalMeacham
11-13-2006, 11:49 AM
Heck, nobody's modest in my gym -- everyone walks from the lockers to the showers naked, and we're of all ages.

HMS Irruncible
11-13-2006, 12:02 PM
Interestingly, for reasons that escaped me, one of my current gyms (though not predominantly gay, certainly has a large gay clientele) has shower stalls, but no curtains. The women's locker room, I'm assured has curtains. My gay buddy laughed at me when brought it up, and he said, "Why do you think we're all in such good shape around here."
Well, an anecdote fraught with assumptions... for several years I worked out at a gym in midtown Atlanta (quite the bustling gay hotspot). The showers had a view of the changing area, and they had vinyl curtains. The shower curtains always had an eye-level hole large enough to see through, and whenever a curtain was replaced, the eye-level hole would appear again within days. The prospect of someone using me as a wank object strikes me with the same indifference as if they were getting off over a furniture catalog; that's their thing, I have no reaction to it. But knowing that someone could be watching, I did become conscious about trying not to give off any come-hither signals and trying to find a locker somewhere other than the "observation deck". I don't go to the gym to deal with that kind of attention.

alphaboi867
11-13-2006, 12:32 PM
...he shower curtains always had an eye-level hole large enough to see through, and whenever a curtain was replaced, the eye-level hole would appear again within days...

Which is why I find it funny whenever a gym/school/club/etc remodels and replaces a communal shower with private stalls because of lawsuit concerns, privacy, behavior complaints, etc. Private stalls (especially with locking doors) encourage more of the "unseemly" behavior that the institution seeks to prevent.

Patty O'Furniture
11-13-2006, 12:49 PM
I don't know if it's sad or funny to see these younger guys carefully trying to pull their underwear on underneath the towel wrapped around their waist.

It's hilarious. These guys are few and far between (at least in my area) and I don't think they realize that this makes them the object of more attention, not less. People look at them with a puzzled "what the hell are you doing?" face. Sometimes the towel will slip off and then they have to juggle the half-pulled-on underwear with trying to grab the towel.

ZipperJJ
11-13-2006, 01:28 PM
It's because of the Internet and it's preponderance of porn.

The only other naked men that guys see outside of the gym have huge cocks, and the only other naked women girls see have huge breasts.

No one wants to take off their clothes for fear that other people will notice how spectacularly un-endowed they are.

The people you see flitting around the lockerroom are the ones who have never seen porn ;)

GrizzRich
11-13-2006, 01:42 PM
...The people you see flitting around the lockerroom are the ones who have never seen porn ;)

bolding mine.

You know how sometimes someone says something and you're SURE that's the first time in history that those words were ever put in that order?

...well, for me, those four bolded words has to be one of those times.

Count Blucher
11-13-2006, 02:14 PM
I thought people were more modest in locker rooms now because of all the jerks with camera phones, but maybe I'm wrong.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
11-13-2006, 02:49 PM
Heck, nobody's modest in my gym -- everyone walks from the lockers to the showers naked, and we're of all ages.

Pretty much that's what I notice, though I go to a relatively upscale club that probably skews slightly older, since the dues are probably a little expensive for someone just out of college. I don't notice the younger guys being that much more modest, with one exception: at one of the locations I go to, we have nude, gender-separated jaccuzis, and I rarely see anyone who looks even as young as I am (48), let alone younger than that, using the men's.

I will not put my clean towel around me when I'm all sweaty after working out, so I head to the shower in the altogether. But on the way back I usually wear the towel since it helps absorb residual water that I might have missed. So, going both ways I'm guided by primarily practical concerns.

I think men generally are a lot more modest these days. To me, it sometimes seems that men's bodies are thought to be generally ugly even under the best of circumstances, and then so many of us are flabby anyway, which encourages the wearing of shapeless, covering styles. Then wearing clothes like that, what's the point of being in shape, so some guys probably end up fatter than they otherwise would.

corkboard
11-13-2006, 03:02 PM
In middle school, we got plenty sweaty but just put our street clothes back on and went on with the schoolday. Teachers must have been disgusted.

When I was entering my teen years (early '80's) we had swimming class in school and we were strongly encouraged to shower afterwards, but nobody did. Also, during that time we were all going through... changes. I remember one of the popular guys- handsome, football player-type- was getting changed out of his suit and I had to do a double-take- his junk was the size of a horse's. I of course assumed every other guy had one like that too, having never before been exposed to one other than my own. I hadn't yet begun my pubescent transformation and was mortified that someone would see my own tackle and I'd be the laughingstock of the school.

Nowadays, I'll change in the gym lockerroom with the same speed I do it at home. I don't linger naked, but I don't scramble to get covered either. I don't walk around naked. Clothes come off, wrap a towel, go to the showers, towel goes on a hook, finish shower, dry off, towel around waist, back to locker and get dressed.

DMark
11-13-2006, 03:18 PM
In my public, small town, Midwestern high school, they had an old swimming pool with just two small locker rooms - one for the boys and one for the girls.

Girls had an odd, one-size-fits-all suit that they wore and then threw in with towels at the end of swimming class.

Boys all swam in the nude! Yep - four years of swimming classes and four years of nude swimming. The first couple of classes were a bit intimidating, but after awhile, you didn't care. My cousin still works at the high school and said it is still the school policy.

I remember one swimming class where the school bells were out of sync and all the boys dove into the pool in a hurry when the girls swimming class suddenly appeared out of nowhere to begin their class.

There was another incident with one of the guys who was rather proud of what he had and intentionally got, uh, excited as a joke. The swim coach made him stand on the end of the diving board until everything returned to normal.

This same public high school also had mandatory ROTC for a minimum of one year.

I tell people these stories and hardly anybody ever believes me, but it is all true.


Specific to the OP - I used to go to a Gay gym in West Hollywood and it depended on the person. Some guys just loved ambling nude over to the showers, taking their sweet time and putting it out there for the world to see - other guys wouldn't even take a shower and just left and went home to shower. Almost all of the guys were in good to fantastic shape, so I think it had less to do with body image than personal preference. Some people don't care, others are more modest.

alphaboi867
11-13-2006, 03:26 PM
...Boys all swam in the nude! Yep - four years of swimming classes and four years of nude swimming. The first couple of classes were a bit intimidating, but after awhile, you didn't care. My cousin still works at the high school and said it is still the school policy...

Really? It's still policy? I asked the same question in GQ, but didn't get a real answer. I assume this is in the US.

Rodgers01
11-13-2006, 03:54 PM
Girls had an odd, one-size-fits-all suit that they wore and then threw in with towels at the end of swimming class.

Boys all swam in the nude! Yep - four years of swimming classes and four years of nude swimming. The first couple of classes were a bit intimidating, but after awhile, you didn't care. My cousin still works at the high school and said it is still the school policy.
I, too, find it incredible that that would still be polcy today! Anyways, what was the rationale for having the girls using bathing suits but the guys swimming nude? Why not everyone either swims nude, or in suits?? What in the world is the point in swimming nude in the first place -- saves money?

stpauler
11-13-2006, 04:16 PM
I dunno, I'm 33 and I've always been a modest guy. I belong to two gyms. One is at work, it's typically pretty empty when I go and I'll occassionally take a shower there as it's private and has its own stalls. The other gym is Lifetime Fitness. I sweat a lot more at Lifetime but they don't have private anything there, so I just slip my sweats on afterwards and shower at home. My partner on the other hand wanders around naked and has no qualms about nudity whatsoever and he's 37.

DMark
11-13-2006, 04:43 PM
I, too, find it incredible that that would still be polcy today! Anyways, what was the rationale for having the girls using bathing suits but the guys swimming nude? Why not everyone either swims nude, or in suits?? What in the world is the point in swimming nude in the first place -- saves money?

Yep, still policy.

The rationale was because of the small locker rooms, they couldn't assign everyone permanent lockers - so there was no place to put wet bathing suits. And the one size fits all for guys was more problematic, as they would constantly be stretched out and would fall off most guys when they dove in or tried to swim fast, even if they tied the waist strings tight, so why even bother.

Supposedly, the girl's suits held up better because they were one piece and had the straps going over the shoulders, although I remember some girls complaining they were either too tight or too loose, but for the most part, their suits at least stayed on when they dove or swam fast.

My mother went to the same high school and it was even policy back then as well. To be honest, it got to be no big deal other than if you were unfortunate enough to have swimming first period of the day. Do you have any idea how cold that water was at 8:00 AM on a January morning in Illinois? The pool was "heated", but trust me, it was anything but warm. After that first plunge, every guy pretty much looked the same.

Roboto
11-13-2006, 05:26 PM
I wish I didn't have to encounter naked men in the locker room . . . I don't consider myself to be homophobic, I just prefer not to have some guy's junk in my face.

Plus, I've seen some blatant weird naked guy behavior (guys blowdrying their pubes, etc) that weided me out and makes me uncomforatble in the lock room.

Malienation
11-13-2006, 05:36 PM
If I can expostulate for a minute, I think there's another, larger reason at work here: a lot of younger people have never had to share much, period. In the past couple decades, birth rates have fallen, and average size of houses has grown larger. My impression is that in the "old days" you'd often have pretty big families (3+ kids) living in small-ish houses: everyone would have to share one bathroom, a couple siblings might have to share a bedroom, everyone would have to fight over one TV and wait their turn to use one telephone. People were, in general, bumping into one another a lot more. Nowadays, you have much smaller families living in much bigger houses. Most kids have never had to share a bedroom. Many of them have their own TV, and even their own private bathroom. Virtually all of them seem to have their own phones. I've read a couple articles where colleges are rushing to build individual dorm rooms, because incoming students don't want to have roommates -- they've never had to live in close quarters with anyone, and they don't want to. (My first roommate in college fit this profile -- he very clearly had never had to adjust to living with someone else before.) I'd guess somewhere in that transition it became unthinkable to have open showers.Good point. When I was growing up, I shared a room with my brother until we were split up by college. When my sister went away to college (she's the oldest), we still shared a room...too used to it to care, I guess. Only one bathroom, too, so dad/son/son in there shaving/showering/taking a leak all at once was common too.

Along the same lines, I read somewhere that since many kids are used to eating alone in their rooms some have trouble eating in a group setting when going away to college. :eek: Now that's strange.

Walloon
11-13-2006, 06:16 PM
You call a man's proudest possession "junk"? Shame on you.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
11-14-2006, 12:53 PM
Forget about "required", weren't you stinky and sweaty after gym class? Didn't you want to shower off after all that?

Right, after spending 35 minutes lackadaisically playing a sport I had absolutely no interest in, I reeked.

Hypno-Toad
11-14-2006, 01:32 PM
For me, it's only an issue if the guys are unfamiliar to me. If it's faces that I've seen at the gym for years, it doesn't really bother me. But if it's a stranger, I'm more modest.

And I agree that it sucks to have some old guy's equipment jiggling next to my ear while I'm putting on my socks.

Wee Bairn
11-14-2006, 02:03 PM
I took PE every year probably from grades 7-12 in 1983-1989 and never once saw anyone use the showers- I'm not even sure if they worked.

Antinor01
11-14-2006, 02:07 PM
I personally don't like being naked in the gym locker room any longer than needed because I feel fat. Being in there with all those guys that have been working out for years and whose bodies actually look really good makes me very self-conscious. Maybe if I keep at it and actually feel like I look half-way decent will change that.

Rodgers01
11-14-2006, 02:09 PM
For me, it's only an issue if the guys are unfamiliar to me. If it's faces that I've seen at the gym for years, it doesn't really bother me. But if it's a stranger, I'm more modest.Really? I'm exactly the opposite -- I don't mind showering and changing at the gym I currently go to because I don't know anyone at all there. I think it would be ten times worse to be naked around a bunch of guys I know -- classmates or friends and the like. I don't care if strangers see me naked, but it's a little too intimate with people you know.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
11-15-2006, 09:41 AM
I hated PE anyway, so beginning in the 11th grade I took "managers' class" -- we were the guys who lined the fields and set out the bases--when we did anything, but before that I had four years of daily PE.

What people really hated most about the showers was simply that they were COLD--beyond that I don't remember anyone ever being harrassed or mocked while changing or showering. One guy ran for class president on a platform of making showers optional, and suprisingly enough, he was able to put it through after he got elected.

Algernon
11-15-2006, 03:37 PM
My personal experiences, and what appears to be the general consensus in this thread, is that it is generational and based primarily on whether or not you did group showers in grade school and high school.

I had group showers that were required from about third grade and up (in the upper midwest, USA). About 1960 through 1971. So for me it is perplexing when I see extreme modesty in the gym locker room.

I was shocked when my kids were not required to shower after gym class in school. Then astounded when in high school they told me that even the football players after a game did not shower at school, but waited until they got home.

My son, who played soccer, never showered after a game. My daughter, who was on the swim team, showered after meets and practices but always with her suit on. (Hmmm. I never thought to ask about the level of modesty exhibited when she and her teammates put on their swimsuits.)

Anne Neville
11-16-2006, 01:12 PM
My daughter, who was on the swim team, showered after meets and practices but always with her suit on. (Hmmm. I never thought to ask about the level of modesty exhibited when she and her teammates put on their swimsuits.)

If she did what I did (took gym in high school in 1989 and 1993, but I think I may have been a little ahead of my time on this issue), she would have changed from her clothes to her swimsuit (or vice versa) as quickly as possible, ideally in a closed bathroom stall. If there wasn't a bathroom stall available, I would change in front of my locker, as quickly as possible, keeping my eyes strictly on my locker, and not talking to anyone or making eye contact until I was decent. It was kind of like guys at urinals, AIUI (I don't speak from personal experience about guys at urinals, but my understanding is that the Guy Code requires you to keep your eyes forward at all times and not speak to others)

When I took water aerobics at the Y, I did pretty much the same thing. I didn't shower there- you can get foot fungus from public showers unless you wear flip-flops, and I had quite enough of wearing flip-flops in the shower when I lived in the dorms in college, thankyouverymuch.

There were showers in our gym locker room, but I never saw anyone use them.

When I was growing up, I shared a room with my brother until we were split up by college. When my sister went away to college (she's the oldest), we still shared a room...too used to it to care, I guess. Only one bathroom, too, so dad/son/son in there shaving/showering/taking a leak all at once was common too.

I shared a bathroom with my sister when I was growing up, though we had more than one bathroom in the house. I never, ever, went in there when she was in there, and she did the same. If you really needed something from in the bathroom and someone else was in there, you knocked and asked them to hand it out to you. They did so while keeping the door such that you didn't see anything except their arm and maybe their head.

Hypno-Toad
11-16-2006, 01:16 PM
Really? I'm exactly the opposite -- I don't mind showering and changing at the gym I currently go to because I don't know anyone at all there. I think it would be ten times worse to be naked around a bunch of guys I know -- classmates or friends and the like. I don't care if strangers see me naked, but it's a little too intimate with people you know.

It's because I have things to talk about with familiar people. I don't mix well with strangers and so there's an uncomfortable silence that the nudity seems to exacerbate. And I don't like the thought of exacerbating in public.

Hypno-Toad
11-16-2006, 01:20 PM
Actually, the only times I've seen a guy really embarrassed in the locker room are those occassions when I've wlked in on them and caught them in the middle of posing for the mirrors.

piperjohn2
10-15-2015, 12:49 PM
I know I am dating myself, I graduated in'58. We not only took showers after gym we swam naked as well at the local "YMCA" then I went into the USAF during the entrance physical you lined up naked for your "Turn your head and cough"

I sit in my easy chair now and watch the HS'ers run across the street and the guys have more cloths on then the gals do. As a sufferer of SSA it's disappointing, even though young trim bodies of both sexes look great. I think it's more fear of the "HOMO" label that forces guys to wear longer and longer and longer shorts, when practicality suggests shorter shorts would be more desirable. Or are today's teens afraid the male equipment is going to fall out the leg opening and somehow show, or are today's teens more endowed then those of previous generations.

Personally I think the shorts on the market today look ridicules, you might as well have long pants on when the "Shorts" are below the knee.

bump
10-15-2015, 01:20 PM
My impression is that in the "old days" you'd often have pretty big families (3+ kids) living in small-ish houses: everyone would have to share one bathroom, a couple siblings might have to share a bedroom, everyone would have to fight over one TV and wait their turn to use one telephone. People were, in general, bumping into one another a lot more. Nowadays, you have much smaller families living in much bigger houses. Most kids have never had to share a bedroom. Many of them have their own TV, and even their own private bathroom.

I think this is a lot of it; there seemed to be a real divide when I was in high school and college about roommate nudity, and the divide seemed to break down to whether you'd grown up in a small house and/or had a large family, both of which tend to quash any precious notions of privacy that you might have. Guys from larger families and/or small houses tended to not have nudity taboos, while the guys from houses where everyone had their own bathrooms tended to have the taboos.

Plus, there was a certain peer-pressure component as well- if you had been in Boy Scouts and/or played organized sports like football, you were much more likely to have had to do communal showers, and were somewhat immune to it.

I mean, we never had communal showers in gym class in high school or college, but we did in Boy Scout camp, and at football practice in high school. Plus, I grew up in a 950 sq foot house (1.5 bath) as part of a family of four- I have a brother.

So I'm pretty much in the let it all hang out camp, but my good friend didn't grow up in such a small house, and never had communal showers, so he's much more bashful about nudity than I am.

Flyer
10-15-2015, 01:30 PM
Forget about "required", weren't you stinky and sweaty after gym class? Didn't you want to shower off after all that?

I have always found this level of obsession with "stinky and sweaty" to be utterly bizarre. OF COURSE we get sweaty at times. Get over it.

Tamerlane
10-15-2015, 01:43 PM
Get over it.

He may have, but since he last posted on this board in 2010 we'll likely never know ;).

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-15-2015, 01:45 PM
I know I am dating myself, I graduated in'58. We not only took showers after gym we swam naked as well at the local "YMCA" then I went into the USAF during the entrance physical you lined up naked for your "Turn your head and cough"

I sit in my easy chair now and watch the HS'ers run across the street and the guys have more cloths on then the gals do. As a sufferer of SSA it's disappointing, even though young trim bodies of both sexes look great. I think it's more fear of the "HOMO" label that forces guys to wear longer and longer and longer shorts, when practicality suggests shorter shorts would be more desirable. Or are today's teens afraid the male equipment is going to fall out the leg opening and somehow show, or are today's teens more endowed then those of previous generations.

Personally I think the shorts on the market today look ridicules, you might as well have long pants on when the "Shorts" are below the knee.

What's a sufferer of SSA?

Roderick Femm
10-15-2015, 03:22 PM
I have always found this level of obsession with "stinky and sweaty" to be utterly bizarre. OF COURSE we get sweaty at times. Get over it.Remind me not to sit next to you on the bus. Or are you under the impression that your old unwashed sweat doesn't make you stink?

For myself, I have to shower after heavy sweating because my sweat makes my dermatitis break out if I don't wash it off.

I was in high school in the mid 60's and not only did we have an open shower that we were required to use, but we didn't get a towel until we were done with the shower. So after the exercise was done, we went to our lockers, stripped, locked the lockers, and walked nonchalantly naked to the shower room. After the shower, we walked by the towel booth to get a towel, which we could then wrap around ourselves if we desired, but by then it seemed a little pointless.

My swimming lessons at the Y were always with bathing suits (because the pool had bleachers, presumably for meets or something), but my first year in college I had to take a swimming class which we took nude.

It's very interesting to me to read the responses from the younger guys who never went through that kind of experience. Somehow it seems like their loss, and when they struggle with not being nude in the locker room they look very uncomfortable to me.

GreenElf
10-15-2015, 03:41 PM
My high school and college PE classes and organized sports in the 70's and 80's involved communal naked showering on a routine basis. People used to be required to shower before entering the city pool. Since then, I've rarely been in any situation involving communal showers other than co-ed at nudist places.

UncleRojelio
10-15-2015, 03:59 PM
I think the question of whether zombies take communal showers is kinda mute. They are going to stink no matter what.

P.S. I graduated high school in '82 and we took showers.

phreesh
10-15-2015, 04:04 PM
Increased modesty has been my experience as well. I'm probably projecting, but my guess is that it is body shaming. People have been conditioned to be ashamed of their naked bodies.

I think it's a real bummer. I have young kids and I volunteered to look after the boys in the locker room after swim class (they need somebody to make sure they're all accounted for and safe). Half were reluctant to change at all - they wanted to go back to school with their wet trunks under their pants. Others waited for the two private change rooms to be open or did that weird shuffle where they put a towel around their waist and try to change under it. I'd say about 5% changed openly.

It's not like I want to look at cock, but I think it's sad that somehow nudity is something to be afraid of. We all have the same stuff. Be proud of it.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-15-2015, 04:09 PM
I graduated in 93 and we did not take showers. I don't think they were ever used. It's crazy because we got very sweaty and some people had P.E. first period! I don't know why they didn't make us shower.

Now when I go to the gym, I see the same as everyone else. Old guys are as naked as possible for as long as possible. Young guys are scared of their shadows. And guys in their 30s through 50s generally just do their business and don't care what others things. This entails *gasp* being occasionally naked.

Rodgers01
10-15-2015, 04:41 PM
I think the trend has accelerated since this thread went dormant nearly ten years ago. I grew up around the military, an organization that used to be rather nonchalant about the whole locker room nudity thing. (Think barracks, boot camp, etc.) Well, I'm back working around the military now after an absence of some years, and even in the gym on base there are now individual showers which hardly ever get used - I think people just go home to change. There's even a sign on the steam room saying that nudity is not allowed - people must wear clothes! I just don't get it.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-15-2015, 04:44 PM
I think the trend has accelerated since this thread went dormant nearly ten years ago. I grew up around the military, an organization that used to be rather nonchalant about the whole locker room nudity thing. (Think barracks, boot camp, etc.) Well, I'm back working around the military now after an absence of some years, and even in the gym on base there are now individual showers which hardly ever get used - I think people just go home to change. There's even a sign on the steam room saying that nudity is not allowed - people must wear clothes! I just don't get it.

I would be uncomfortable in a steam room with full nudity. I think a towel or bathing suit is appropriate in that situation. But underwear in showers and things like that are ridiculous.

Rodgers01
10-15-2015, 04:47 PM
I would be uncomfortable in a steam room with full nudity. I think a towel or bathing suit is appropriate in that situation. But underwear in showers and things like that are ridiculous.

I would understand if the sign said use either a towel or shorts if you're sitting on the bench. But no - it explicitly says that clothing must be worn and no nudity is allowed. This is in a steam room within the single-sex locker room. I dunno - maybe I'm just too used to the German version.

Lightray
10-15-2015, 05:35 PM
What's a sufferer of SSA?
Since he necro'd the thread to talk about male modesty, and mostly discussed boys' shorts and floppy penes, I'm going to guess SSA = "Same Sex Attraction".

Tamerlane
10-15-2015, 06:02 PM
P.S. I graduated high school in '82 and we took showers.

I graduated in 1985 and we were supposed to take showers every day, but many of the smaller/fatter/shyer kids would mostly dodge doing so despite the occasional nag from the instructors. Except during swimming when our head P.E. teacher would demand everyone take one to rinse off the chlorine from the pool and would stand at the gym door to monitor and enforce his decree.

Arcite
10-15-2015, 07:04 PM
I think this is a lot of it
GREAT username for the first person to post after a zombie resurrection.

I graduated in 93 and we did not take showers. I don't think they were ever used. It's crazy because we got very sweaty and some people had P.E. first period! I don't know why they didn't make us shower.

Now when I go to the gym, I see the same as everyone else. Old guys are as naked as possible for as long as possible. Young guys are scared of their shadows. And guys in their 30s through 50s generally just do their business and don't care what others things. This entails *gasp* being occasionally naked.

I graduated in 94 and can say the same thing. The only time we were even supposed to shower in gym class was after swimming, and even then many of us skipped it. Those who did it generally just rinsed off with our swim trunks still on.

I have had the same thought about old guys, too. In fact, I've joked about having come up with a mathematical law that the percentage of total time in the locker room spent naked is directly proportional to a man's age. I don't do anything awkward like try to change underwear under a towel, but in general I make a reasonable effort to minimize time spent in a state of undress. (E.g., the first thing I do after removing my underpants is put on my other pair.) Old guys, on the other hand, seem to do the opposite. I've seen old guys come into the locker room, throw their gym bag on a bench, and immediate strip completely naked, before even choosing locker or opening their gym bag.

I think it's because there's a paradoxical effect of the increased emphasis on sex in our society. Back when sex was kept under wraps, and couldn't be talked about in polite society, it was more compartmentalized. Sex was considered something that happened only between a husband and wife behind a closed bedroom door, so if genitalia were exposed in some other context--locker room, kids going skinny dipping down at the swimmin' hole--it wasn't considered sexual. Now, however, with sex being a more public aspect of society, these things have become sexualized. And since most people don't want to think about or have sexual interactions with total strangers of the same sex, they're uncomfortable with nudity in a locker room.

handsomeharry
10-15-2015, 07:49 PM
In H. Allen Smith's The Complete Practical Joker, he mentions an infamous stagehand from the days of Vaudeville who would walk through the women's dressing room. He'd yell "Close your eyes, ladies, I'm coming through..."


I wish to honor you for your knowledge of an H. Allen Smith book.

Mdcastle
10-15-2015, 08:01 PM
I graduated in 1992 at a private school and I recall three people taking showers after PE (and one of those wasn't able to because they weren't turned on). They still were required at the local public school, to spare me from that is one reason my parents pulled me out.

As for long shorts, they're what in style so I buy. I still remember the 1980s shorts, and we wore pretty short shorts in gym, which was fine.

Sattua
10-15-2015, 08:04 PM
I think it's because there's a paradoxical effect of the increased emphasis on sex in our society. Back when sex was kept under wraps, and couldn't be talked about in polite society, it was more compartmentalized. Sex was considered something that happened only between a husband and wife behind a closed bedroom door, so if genitalia were exposed in some other context--locker room, kids going skinny dipping down at the swimmin' hole--it wasn't considered sexual. Now, however, with sex being a more public aspect of society, these things have become sexualized. And since most people don't want to think about or have sexual interactions with total strangers of the same sex, they're uncomfortable with nudity in a locker room.

Agreed. Society is becoming increasingly prudish.

epbrown01
10-15-2015, 09:17 PM
Agreed. Society is becoming increasingly prudish.

Maybe cautious? With camera phones everywhere, and people being idiots, I'd want to limit my exposure these days.

Roderick Femm
10-15-2015, 09:30 PM
I graduated in 93 and we did not take showers. I don't think they were ever used. It's crazy because we got very sweaty and some people had P.E. first period! I don't know why they didn't make us shower.

Now when I go to the gym, I see the same as everyone else. Old guys are as naked as possible for as long as possible. Young guys are scared of their shadows. And guys in their 30s through 50s generally just do their business and don't care what others things. This entails *gasp* being occasionally naked.I'm an old guy, but I'm naked for about three seconds when I strip down before the shower (the time it takes to drop my drawers and cover myself with a towel) and a few more seconds when I'm drying off after the shower. I haven't seen any of the other older guys parading around naked either. Almost everyone at my gym wraps himself in a towel for most walking around purposes.

jz78817
10-15-2015, 09:46 PM
I know I am dating myself, I graduated in'58. We not only took showers after gym we swam naked as well at the local "YMCA" then I went into the USAF during the entrance physical you lined up naked for your "Turn your head and cough"

I sit in my easy chair now and watch the HS'ers run across the street and the guys have more cloths on then the gals do. As a sufferer of SSA it's disappointing, even though young trim bodies of both sexes look great. I think it's more fear of the "HOMO" label that forces guys to wear longer and longer and longer shorts, when practicality suggests shorter shorts would be more desirable. Or are today's teens afraid the male equipment is going to fall out the leg opening and somehow show, or are today's teens more endowed then those of previous generations.

Personally I think the shorts on the market today look ridicules, you might as well have long pants on when the "Shorts" are below the knee.

oh great, another old white person who thinks how things were in the 1950s was perfect and should never change. it ain't your day anymore, grandpa. get over it.

Agreed. Society is becoming increasingly prudish.

fuck that. I go to the gym to exercise, work out, and go home. what the fuck difference does it make to you or anyone else whether I get completely undressed in the locker room before or after? Jesus christ.

Melbourne
10-16-2015, 01:49 AM
oh great, another old white person who thinks how things were in the 1950s was perfect and should never change. it ain't your day anymore, grandpa. get over it.



fuck that. I go to the gym to exercise, work out, and go home. what the fuck difference does it make to you or anyone else whether I get completely undressed in the locker room before or after? Jesus christ.

Well it obviously makes a great deal of difference to you. Tell us why, or get over it.

JessMagic
10-16-2015, 07:51 AM
Went to secondary (aka "high" I guess) school from 1992 to 1998 in Scotland and for the first four years I did PE. I was chubby and really shy for most of those four years, and as far as I can remember I avoided showering after PE as much as possible. Some of the more alpha kids would shower after PE class but a lot would be like me.

However, an adulthood of playing "soccer" relentlessly and going through bursts of gym-going, combined with losing the weight I was carrying age 13-16 has conditioned me to being used to being naked in front of other men. Play football, take a communal shower after, and head home or to the pub - no big deal. But yeah I see kids like 10 years younger than me and in much better shape than me kinda covering things up in the changing rooms at the gym.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 09:25 AM
So men and women should not care who is staring at them in the locker room when you people are clearly staring at us enough to see how we are getting dressed?

I mean, you saw someone showering with their underwear! How did you see this if you weren't staring? Maybe you should stop staring at other people!

Me, I have lost some of my modesty but I will never lose all. It's all in the upbringing. People in my family simply did not get undressed in public. I showered in PE but I didn't walk around the locker rooms naked, and I still don't. I shower at the gym, walk back to my locker with my towel firmly wrapped around me, and yes, I do put my pants on before I remove the towel.

I don't really want to expose my entire naked body to strangers. And I don't really give a shit if people think it's silly. I'm at the gym, I'm working out, could you please reserve your judgment?

filmore
10-16-2015, 09:49 AM
So men and women should not care who is staring at them in the locker room when you people are clearly staring at us enough to see how we are getting dressed?

I mean, you saw someone showering with their underwear! How did you see this if you weren't staring? Maybe you should stop staring at other people!


I think it's more that we notice what's unusual more than we're staring. I also notice people who shower in their underwear and change under a towel because it stands out. The ironic thing is that the people doing that are trying to be more modest, but they probably get looked at more than if they just blended in with what everyone else is doing.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 09:52 AM
Stop looking?

No, I'm serious.

But I can guarantee you I don't shower in my underwear. But then again, I guess you wouldn't know, because we have curtains. How do you know people shower in their underwear?

Urbanredneck
10-16-2015, 09:53 AM
In the old days high school boys were required to swim naked.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-16-2015, 10:27 AM
Stop looking?

No, I'm serious.

But I can guarantee you I don't shower in my underwear. But then again, I guess you wouldn't know, because we have curtains. How do you know people shower in their underwear?

This is ridiculous. People who do weird things stand out and are noticed. Fear of taking a normal shower by wearing underwear and dancing around with a towel while trying to get dressed are going to make you stand out and get more attention.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 10:30 AM
This is ridiculous. People who do weird things stand out and are noticed. Fear of taking a normal shower by wearing underwear and dancing around with a towel while trying to get dressed are going to make you stand out and get more attention.

STOP LOOKING. I mean, why do you care? This is the part I don't get. I'm at the gym to work out, not to flash my girlie parts everywhere. Do you ever think this kind of shit is maybe why people stop going to the gym? Why can't you just mind your own freakin business?

And again, I don't wear my underwear in the shower, and how would you know anyway, unless you were creeping?

Procrustus
10-16-2015, 10:37 AM
STOP LOOKING. I mean, why do you care? This is the part I don't get. I'm at the gym to work out, not to flash my girlie parts everywhere. Do you ever think this kind of shit is maybe why people stop going to the gym? Why can't you just mind your own freakin business?

And again, I don't wear my underwear in the shower, and how would you know anyway, unless you were creeping?

Most showers I see are communal. Easy to see if you're wearing underwear or not. I will grant you, it's no ones business. I don't think anyone here really "cares," but are just discussing the differences in our attitudes, etc. We have the same kind of discussions about food (ketchup on your hot dog?). Personally, I'm fine with people on the modest end of the spectrum, but it is something of a shift from the "old days." Of perceived to be, at least.

jz78817
10-16-2015, 10:42 AM
Most showers I see are communal. Easy to see if you're wearing underwear or not. I will grant you, it's no ones business. I don't think anyone here really "cares," but are just discussing the differences in our attitudes, etc. We have the same kind of discussions about food (ketchup on your hot dog?). Personally, I'm fine with people on the modest end of the spectrum, but it is something of a shift from the "old days." Of perceived to be, at least.

like I said, old white people thinking the way things were what they were kids was perfect and should never change.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 10:50 AM
Most showers I see are communal. Easy to see if you're wearing underwear or not. I will grant you, it's no ones business. I don't think anyone here really "cares," but are just discussing the differences in our attitudes, etc. We have the same kind of discussions about food (ketchup on your hot dog?). Personally, I'm fine with people on the modest end of the spectrum, but it is something of a shift from the "old days." Of perceived to be, at least.

In a communal shower, I might just wear underwear! We don't have communal showers, we have individual showers. And I do change by my locker, but this is an improvement over past years, where I used to change in a private room.

Your old days are nothing like my old days. Like jz says, it's a white people thing! Other Indian women in the gym are even more conservative than me. The reason I am even as casual as I am is because I'm almost 40 now and just don't give a shit anymore.

But I'm not skinny or svelte. I'm at the gym because I am not skinny or svelte. I don't really feel comfortable stripping naked anyway and not being skinny makes it worse.

Inner Stickler
10-16-2015, 10:55 AM
I was at a waterpark a few months ago and we, like I'm sure many other people did, checked out of our room on the last day and then went swimming for a few hours and used the shower/changing room to wash off and change into real people clothes and it was hilarious. I've never seen so many guys unsure of what level of nakedness was acceptable.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-16-2015, 10:57 AM
STOP LOOKING. I mean, why do you care? This is the part I don't get. I'm at the gym to work out, not to flash my girlie parts everywhere. Do you ever think this kind of shit is maybe why people stop going to the gym? Why can't you just mind your own freakin business?

And again, I don't wear my underwear in the shower, and how would you know anyway, unless you were creeping?

I am not going out of my way to look at anything. But if someone is doing something weird right in front of me, I can't help but notice. And I don't give a shit what people do. I just think it's funny and a bit sad how uncomfortable some people are about something so mundane.

You sound like the sort who should just get a home treadmill or something.

Lightray
10-16-2015, 11:11 AM
STOP LOOKING. I mean, why do you care? This is the part I don't get. I'm at the gym to work out, not to flash my girlie parts everywhere. Do you ever think this kind of shit is maybe why people stop going to the gym? Why can't you just mind your own freakin business?

And again, I don't wear my underwear in the shower, and how would you know anyway, unless you were creeping?
I can't wear my glasses when I'm swimming (and contacts + swimming = bad idea), so everyone in the locker room looks like a vague blob to me, unless they're very close up.

And yet, I know about all the nudity and fear-of-nudity shenanigans. How? Well, the creepy old guys who sit around in the lockerroom naked all day* are desperate for attention and latch onto anyone so they can ramble on about crap no one cares about... and they have to do that standing naked, three inches away from my face while I'm sitting down.

And the young towl-dance dressers are wriggling around in a crowded lockerroom, bumping into everyone trying to dress like adults. Or are hogging all the bathroom stalls as changing rooms, while the naked old guys are loudly complaining (and nakedly) that they need to use the toilet.

We care because this is ANNOYING. Not because we want to point and stare at your ladybits/manbits. I can't see them, anyway, and eew besides.

* I mean this literally. There was a guy who would come into the lockerroom early in the day, strip down to nothing, and sit on the vinyl couch watching Fox news all day. I never saw him in a workout area. The staff never saw him anywhere but sweating up the vinyl couch, and had to start posting signs because of complaints about his trying to control the tv and leaving wet buttcheek sweatstains on the vinyl. Naked TV Nazi no longer comes by to undress and watch tv, so we think he may have died.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 11:25 AM
1. I am not going to get a home treadmill. I am literally just going to continue not to care about what you think, and change exactly as I see fit. I like going to the gym because there is nothing else to do there but exercise. At home, I get distracted.
2. I promise I don't hop around bumping into people, though. I am very cognizant of my space. I don't care how other people get dressed, I care more about the people who have their stuff strewn all the way across the bench, or don't put it in a locker, leaving it for you to trip over.
3. I don't hog the dressing rooms either.

I am part of a family gym, which means I see many levels of comfort. Some people strip all the way naked and sit their bare asses down on the bench (eew!) and slowly, laboriously change into their clothes. Some people (mostly old or E. Asian) walk around naked. Some change under their towels. Some change in the changing rooms. Some change partly under their towels, like me. (I generally pull my pants on while my towel is still on. Then I take the towel off and put on my bra/shirt.

I just don't get why we can't just all politely ignore each other. I am not as comfortable with nudity as you. At almost 40 years old, I don't really give a shit whether other people think I am weird or not. I just think you need to mind your own freakin business.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-16-2015, 11:35 AM
At almost 40 years old, I don't really give a shit whether other people think I am weird or not. I just think you need to mind your own freakin business.

We are minding our own business. We are discussing it here, like we do lots of trivial issues. No one is saying to anyone "wow you are weird" to people in person at the gym. We are just thinking it to ourselves if we see strange behavior like showering in underwear or taking drastic measures to not be naked for 5 seconds.

Roderick Femm
10-16-2015, 12:07 PM
Yeah, it's dangerous to close one's eyes in the locker room, you never know what you might run into.

Seriously, Anaamika, it's unfortunate that there were one or two posts that did sound judgmental because most of us are just remarking on what seems (so us) an odd way that things have changed, and speculating about possible reasons.

This seems like a sensitive subject for you (based on how the tone of your posts here is so different from your usual tone) but really, I doubt if anyone is judging your behavior or appearance in the locker room. I've belonged to a lot of gyms over the years and in none of them have I ever felt like anyone was judging (or even cared) how I looked, even when I was very sensitive about being fat. It is difficult not to notice what is going on around one, even if one tries to keep one's eyes on the ground.

Arcite
10-16-2015, 12:15 PM
like I said, old white people thinking the way things were what they were kids was perfect and should never change.
Oh, you said "old white people!" Wow, thanks for clarifying. All this time I've been thinking I had a right to exercise dictatorial control over other people's locker room changing habits, but since you've helpfully notified us that old white people are evil, I totally see the error of my ways. :rolleyes:

And yet, I know about all the nudity and fear-of-nudity shenanigans. How? Well, the creepy old guys who sit around in the lockerroom naked all day* are desperate for attention and latch onto anyone so they can ramble on about crap no one cares about... and they have to do that standing naked, three inches away from my face while I'm sitting down.
Yes, in addition to all the old guys who immediately strip down and then conduct all their business while in the locker room naked (like the guys I've seen more than once standing at the sinks shaving, totally naked) I once encountered a naked locker room reader. When I entered the locker room, he was sitting on a bench (at least he had a towel under him) totally naked, reading a magazine. I came back from my workout, opened my locker, got out my towel, went and took a shower, came back to the locker, got dressed, and left the gym--at which time he was still sitting on the bench reading his magazine, naked. Your Naked TV Nazi takes the cake, though.

I just don't get why we can't just all politely ignore each other. I am not as comfortable with nudity as you. At almost 40 years old, I don't really give a shit whether other people think I am weird or not. I just think you need to mind your own freakin business.
We are politely ignoring each other and minding our own freakin business. Like Living Well said, we aren't accosting people in real life about it. We're discussing it on an anonymous online forum. And we're not staring. Human beings are wired to notice things out of the ordinary out of the corner of our eye, in case you hadn't noticed.

Pixel_Dent
10-16-2015, 12:41 PM
Remind me not to sit next to you on the bus. Or are you under the impression that your old unwashed sweat doesn't make you stink

If the car pool of high schoolers I drive is any indication, young people today think an eye watering, asthma inducingly heavy application of Axe body spray can substitute for a shower.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-16-2015, 12:44 PM
If the car pool of high schoolers I drive is any indication, young people today think an eye watering, asthma inducingly heavy application of Axe body spray can substitute for a shower.

It did back in 1993 too. I think we used Right Guard instead though.

mistymage
10-16-2015, 01:02 PM
I am part of a family gym, which means I see many levels of comfort. Some people strip all the way naked and sit their bare asses down on the bench (eew!) and slowly, laboriously change into their clothes. Some people (mostly old or E. Asian) walk around naked. Some change under their towels. Some change in the changing rooms. Some change partly under their towels, like me.

So.. how do you know that if you weren't looking?


I'm not an old white guy... I'm a 40+ Native American woman. My middle and high school had compulsory showers with teachers watching you shower. Plus I have went to a gynecologist for 20 years, given birth 3 times, was born into a family of 8 and have had multiple kidney surgeries. All of which means any sense of modesty has gone out of the window.

That doesn't mean I run around my house or in public naked. It just means not only don't I care what you see but I don't care about what I see in private or public. If I notice a guy wearing short shorts and his balls hanging out accidentally*, I avert my eyes and laugh to myself. If I see a mom nursing her child and the kid pulls off flashing mom's nipple to the world, I smile. If I see a guy in a trench coat flashing people, I call the cops.

And I never get my panties in a bunch because I go commando.


*That was at a company picnic so I know it wasn't some guy getting off on doing so. Or there would have been Stories.

Anaamika
10-16-2015, 01:11 PM
My sense of modesty has not gone out the window. I'm not sure why it's considered some sort of moral high ground to have it do so. :confused:

And I don't care what people do like clearly some others here do. I see many levels of comfort but I don't judge any of them. I don't care if people do walk around naked in the locker room. I just choose not to.

Ice Machine
10-16-2015, 02:35 PM
I was about to post an anecdote but had a recollection of posting it already. Looks like I did in this poll (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=537786) from several years back on similar topic of how comfortable people are naked.

As I get older I seem to care less and less. Different scenario than a single-sex locker room but I went to a clothing optional beach this summer for the first time. I was quite nervous at first but my 8 year old son and I joined the locals. It was actually quite nice to be swimming in the lake without a swimsuit. The crowd was quite varied in age from 20s through 70s (we were the only ones with kids there).



I chose the last one although I'm probably half way between the last 2. As long as it's not inappropriate I'm good. I'm usually naked most of the time at home although as corkboard noted I'll probably have to watch it soon as my daughter has just started kindergarten.

Here in Texas I it seems I see a lot of folks who aren't comfortable even in locker rooms. About a year ago we went to a waterpark and at the end of the day I took my son to shower and change and my wife took my daughter. I stripped myself and him down and showered in the open showers. Most of the guys (all ages) were wearing bathing suits and giving us odd looks. My wife had the same experience, the women were showering with their one-piece bathing suits on reaching under the suit to lather up and thought my wife odd for showering naked.

phreesh
10-16-2015, 04:07 PM
My sense of modesty has not gone out the window. I'm not sure why it's considered some sort of moral high ground to have it do so. :confused:

And I don't care what people do like clearly some others here do. I see many levels of comfort but I don't judge any of them. I don't care if people do walk around naked in the locker room. I just choose not to.

Maybe you'd rather not delve more deeply into this and feel free not to comment, but may I ask why you think you choose not to be naked?

As noted several times in this thread, you seem to be part of the future. It seems like more and more people feel the way you do. And I'm genuinely curious about what has happened to make your position the more common one. Not in a judgmental way. Just in a more, "Huh? So what's with that?" way. I don't think either attitude is 'better'. I just wonder what is motivating this apparently broad change in behavior.

I am about your age and one of the guys who doesn't mind being naked in the locker room. I've played sports my whole life and so got used to locker room nudity. To repeat others, I am one of the 'in-betweeners'. I don't strip down and hang out for awhile. I get naked as necessary, grab a towel as soon as possible and then get dressed right away.

To explain why I feel that nudity is no big deal, I would say that I was just brought up that way. My brother and I used to run around the back yard naked when we were kids. My parents would walk around the house naked as they got their clothes after a shower or whatever. I was just not brought up to see anything weird or shameful about a naked body.

So that's where I'm coming from. Where do you think your more modest attitude comes from? Do you find nudity weird or shameful? Are you worried about people taking pictures of you with their phones? Are you worried that people are staring at you and judging you? Again, I don't mean any disrespect, I just would like to understand your point of view.

Tamerlane
10-16-2015, 06:19 PM
Again, I don't mean any disrespect, I just would like to understand your point of view.


Your old days are nothing like my old days. Like jz says, it's a white people thing! Other Indian women in the gym are even more conservative than me.

I absolutely don't want to speak for Anaamika, but I thought the above pretty much explains it - she grew up in a household that was much more culturally conservative about casual nudity.

My ( quite white ) parents were definitely much more casual about nudity than I am. I avoided communal showers in HS as much as I reasonably could and I was never one for skinny-dipping as an adult. I don't attend a public gym these days, but when I did I was roughly in the same bailiwick as Anaamika with how I comported myself. Showered nude, quickly - coverd up with a towel at all other times, dressed as quickly as possible and avoided interaction with others while vulnerable skin was showing ;).

jz78817
10-16-2015, 08:46 PM
Maybe you'd rather not delve more deeply into this and feel free not to comment, but may I ask why you think you choose not to be naked?

speaking for myself, you may ask but it's none of your business.

Ambivalid
10-16-2015, 09:04 PM
speaking for myself, you may ask but it's none of your business.

Whew! Close call! Good thing he didn't ask you.

jz78817
10-16-2015, 10:01 PM
Whew! Close call! Good thing he didn't ask you.

well, given that Anaamika and I have been advancing similar viewpoints, I felt I could answer. But I'm glad you felt you could stick your ass into the conversation while adding no value whatsoever.

Ambivalid
10-16-2015, 10:09 PM
well, given that Anaamika and I have been advancing similar viewpoints, I felt I could answer. But I'm glad you felt you could stick your ass into the conversation while adding no value whatsoever.

Yeah, because you answering when you weren't even the one being asked, only to basically say, "not telling!" really advanced the dialogue here in a very meaningful and relevant way. :)

Rune
10-17-2015, 05:44 AM
STOP LOOKING. I mean, why do you care? This is the part I don't get. I'm at the gym to work out, not to flash my girlie parts everywhere. Do you ever think this kind of shit is maybe why people stop going to the gym? Why can't you just mind your own freakin business?

And again, I don't wear my underwear in the shower, and how would you know anyway, unless you were creeping?I care, not about you personally, but in general because I see it as part of a larger trend of increasing body image alienation (leading to psychological problems, eating disorders, excessive plastic surgery, having unrealistic notions of what humans look like when your only reference are photoshopped porn images and porn movies, etc.), and of general sexualisation (naked sexualised tits on commercials are ok Ė real life nursing mother not, and 5yo girls must wear bikinis).

Anyway, Europe doesnít seem to have progressed this far. My daughters still shower after gym class (doh), and the gyms Iíve been to in Europe arenít controlled by nudity angst. In the gyms Iíve been to in Germany, Ukraine and Russia, the cleaners were always women, and theyíd clean while the guys would take showers. Nobody gives a damn. In Denmark the female locker room had workmen doing some repairs and painting. The girls didnít seem to mind.

mistymage
10-17-2015, 06:54 AM
I care, not about you personally, but in general because I see it as part of a larger trend of increasing body image alienation (leading to psychological problems, eating disorders, excessive plastic surgery, having unrealistic notions of what humans look like when your only reference are photoshopped porn images and porn movies, etc.), and of general sexualisation (naked sexualised tits on commercials are ok Ė real life nursing mother not, and 5yo girls must wear bikinis).

Anyway, Europe doesnít seem to have progressed this far. My daughters still shower after gym class (doh), and the gyms Iíve been to in Europe arenít controlled by nudity angst. In the gyms Iíve been to in Germany, Ukraine and Russia, the cleaners were always women, and theyíd clean while the guys would take showers. Nobody gives a damn. In Denmark the female locker room had workmen doing some repairs and painting. The girls didnít seem to mind.

I... wish I would have said this from an Old Person POV (when did I get old? When my oldest hit 18 years old, I guess).

From my heritage POV... our women apparently ran around topless according to all the really old paintings/inkings/prints/whatever old images are called except for cartography because that's the wrong Continent. And then they got dressed as time Progressed.

I'm skeptical ... native mosquitoes and gnats are annoying and downright crazy-making a few months out of the year with chemicals... without them? I guess I would be making excuses to stay inside of the lodges for quite a few months of the year.. an extra itchy month is added for the Asian skeeters.

Spectre of Pithecanthropus
10-17-2015, 11:02 AM
Good point. When I was growing up, I shared a room with my brother until we were split up by college. When my sister went away to college (she's the oldest), we still shared a room...too used to it to care, I guess. Only one bathroom, too, so dad/son/son in there shaving/showering/taking a leak all at once was common too.

My brother and I always shared a bedroom growing up, as did most other same sex siblings in the neighborhood. The houses weren't small, but back in the day the builders tended to skimp on bedrooms in favor of the "public" areas of a house like the living room. There were usually multiple bathrooms but those would almost always be off the hall, rather than ensuite.

I was so used to sharing a bedroom that, on a couple of occasions when I decided to move into a different room, I'd ended up moving my things back to the shared bedroom.

phreesh
10-18-2015, 11:48 PM
speaking for myself, you may ask but it's none of your business.

Well, there you go. You won't advance this discussion. As is your right. Hopefully, others will be more forthcoming to fight ignorance.

Orville mogul
10-19-2015, 09:57 AM
Anyway, Europe doesnít seem to have progressed this far. My daughters still shower after gym class (doh), and the gyms Iíve been to in Europe arenít controlled by nudity angst. In the gyms Iíve been to in Germany, Ukraine and Russia, the cleaners were always women, and theyíd clean while the guys would take showers. Nobody gives a damn. In Denmark the female locker room had workmen doing some repairs and painting. The girls didnít seem to mind.
Yeah, I was just going to say the same thing about locker rooms in Europe -- still a lot of prolonged nudity here. And I second the thing about opposite sex cleaners.

Slightly off topic, but the thing I hate about the communal showers without dividers is the people who come out of a sauna and take a COLD shower right next to you, dousing you with their cold spray...

Arcite
10-19-2015, 10:49 AM
My brother and I always shared a bedroom growing up, as did most other same sex siblings in the neighborhood. The houses weren't small, but back in the day the builders tended to skimp on bedrooms in favor of the "public" areas of a house like the living room. There were usually multiple bathrooms but those would almost always be off the hall, rather than ensuite.

I was so used to sharing a bedroom that, on a couple of occasions when I decided to move into a different room, I'd ended up moving my things back to the shared bedroom.

I think the lack of bedroom-sharing is a factor too. My brother and I at least shared a room for a time when we were little kids. OTOH, I have a friend who grew up in a house where he and his brother had a joint bathroom "suite" between their two rooms, each with his own private sink, and a common shower and toilet. So not only did he never share a bedroom, the greatest number of other people he ever had to share a shower or toilet with was 1. And he's very squeamish about changing or even going shirtless around other people.

Trom
10-19-2015, 02:07 PM
Interesting... apparently my experience was pretty rare for people of my generation. I graduated high school in 2002. Most guys, me included, showered sans clothing in the communal showers after gym class and after sports practices.

I currently play men's league ice hockey. I'd say 99% of guys shower in the community showers after skating. I can only think of one guy who I've noticed does not.

Living Well Is Best Revenge
10-19-2015, 02:15 PM
Interesting... apparently my experience was pretty rare for people of my generation. I graduated high school in 2002. Most guys, me included, showered sans clothing in the communal showers after gym class and after sports practices.

I currently play men's league ice hockey. I'd say 99% of guys shower in the community showers after skating. I can only think of one guy who I've noticed does not.

I don't think the showering after hockey is rare. I think sports teams, especially as adults, are more apt to be comfortable enough to do that. Especially if you go out for beers/food after.

I'd say showering after gym class in 2002 is definitely rare.

SciFiSam
10-21-2015, 07:37 AM
For women, I think it's changed a lot in the past twenty years or so. I've been going swimming about weekly for that long, either alone or with my daughter, and have definitely noticed a change. So it's not just confined to men, and I think that means it's just about homophobia, which tends to be more directed towards men than women (and I'm a lesbian, btw).

It's no big deal. I'm not even sure that changing takes longer, even though it should, because we're all waiting for cubicles. Maybe you use the space better when it's briefly your own, rather than juggling swimsuits and clothes, and still have the social pressure to get out of the cubicle quickly.

Arcite
10-21-2015, 04:49 PM
I don't think the showering after hockey is rare. I think sports teams, especially as adults, are more apt to be comfortable enough to do that. Especially if you go out for beers/food after.



I'd say showering after gym class in 2002 is definitely rare.


I don't know whether by mentioning going out afterward, you meant to invoke the general idea that a sports team has that much camaraderie to be comfortable with showering, or specifically the idea that they're heading somewhere else immediately afterward. But if it's the latter, that reminds me of a way in which this increased squeamishness actually does affect the rest of us, and that is that many people will only shower at home, which causes an extra trip, which takes extra time. I notice a lot of the younger guys at the gym not only will not get changed in front of other guys, they won't even shower in a private stall. They show up to the gym in their gym wear, and leave in their gym wear.

My friend whom I mentioned earlier is like this. He won't use public showers at all, even with private stalls (in addition to being skittish about changing around others, he's a bit of a germophobe.) So he can't come straight from his gym or tennis club to meet up. He has to go home and shower first.

St_john
01-20-2016, 10:51 PM
I'm one of the old guys. I grew up with out being concerned about my body. I shared a room with my sister till we were 10 and 11, she a year and a half is older then I am. Then I started sharing a room with our older brother. We had only one bathroom and the door was never locked. If it was closed you knocked. We also walked to and from the bathroom nude.

The last few years I have worked with the youth at church and I was amazed that no one even the sports teams did not take showers. On a retreat I shared a room with the youth pastor and he changed under the covers because he was afraid of anyone seeing him undressed. I asked him about this and his response was he had never changed in front of anyone not even family members. He shared a room with his brother and always went into the bathroom to change. I wander how he deals with his wife now that he is married.

I have also used change rooms in Europa. I have seen men bring their daughters, as old as 11 or 12, into the showers with them and no one has a problem with it.

Roderick Femm
01-21-2016, 12:34 AM
St_john, I want to thank you for reviving three different threads today about nudity. I am pleased that you are so relaxed and mature about your own and others' naked bodies.

On the other hand, maybe you could find additional topics to talk about, just, you know, for a little variety.