Airline Boarding Procedures. WTF!!??

[Onomatopoeia]

I just got home from another excruciatingly painful flight that was two hours late on account of weather, and another forty-five minutes late departing. I'm tired and agitated, but that's not why I'm pitting.

I fly quite a bit for work, and I'd say I may fly first class on three out of every ten trips. For the rest I hoof it in coach, um, I mean business class (snort).

For the past year-and-a-half or so, whenever I've had the misfortune to have to fly business class, I've experienced something that defies all logic, in my opinion. It used to be normal procedure, on most airlines I fly, for first class ticket holders to board first, and then non-ambulatory flyers. Then flyers holding tickets for seats in the five to ten rows at the very back of the plane would be called to board, followed by the next five to ten rows forward of that, and so on, until the last five to ten rows that were called were immediately behind first class. This worked out great as it expedited boarding with a minimum of bottlenecks.

Now what they do is call first class, then the non-ambulatory, and then the next five to ten rows immediately behind first class, then the next rows behind that, until they've called the last group, which is at the back of the plane. WHAT KIND OF IDIOCY IS THIS!!? If it'd happened once I'd say "okay, well this was a dumb mistake," but it's seemingly all the time now. It takes freaking FOREVER to board now. I figure the airlines must know they're pissing people off with this asinine process. What could POSSIBLY be the reasoning behind it?

Well, tonight (oh, that's right, make that LAST night...sigh) I'd had enough. I left my place in line and went to the counter. After all, my seat was 27F and my end of the line wasn't moving anytime soon. After asking the counter agent what the reason was for this bass-ackwards boarding procedure, the only thing she said, without even looking up at me, was "Sir, the plane is boarding." What!?! Did i speak another language? I swear I felt like clocking that wench. When I restated my question she just ignored me, so naturally, after barely winning an internal battle to contain the Hulk, I slunk back into line. After all, clocking that wench, as satisfying as I'm sure it would have felt at the time, just wouldn't have been worth the lengthy incarceration that would have inevitably followed.

Anyway, before even entering the plane, in fact, while standing so far back in the accursed line that I coudln't even see the plane, a flight attendant announced that the plane couldn't depart until all passengers had taken their seats O_o. I was in that bloody line another ten freaking minutes before I stepped onto the plane. By the time I got back to 27F another five or so minutes had elapsed. It was another fifteen minutes before the pilot called crosschecks.

I usually fly American, but do fly USAir in a pinch if I have to, but only if I have to. . .freaking luggage-losing, incompetent freaks that they are. Can anyone give me any idea as to why procedures on the boarding order has changed? I have to fly again next week and if I can't solve this conundrum I may freaking snap. It's always bad to be inconvenienced, but it's a little more bearable if I understand why.

TIA

[Robot Arm]

I read something about 10 years ago that said the then-new state-of-the-art was to board by 'zones'. The first zone to board was the window seats near the back. Zone 2 was middle seats in the back and window seats forward of those in zone 1. The idea, as near as I could tell, was so Mr. Aisle Seat didn't have to get up and block the aisle to let Middle and Window in. It was supposed to save them 90 seconds or something.

The first time I had a ticket with a zone, I was in a window seat and it was Zone 5. They call the number, I board with my group like a good piece of livestock, and there's someone already comfortable belted into the aisle seat, so who knows.

My only guess about the front-to-back thing is that the passengers near the front are more likely to have paid full fare and the airline wants to keep them happy and gives them first crack at the overhead bins.

And I'm not sure the order really makes a difference. Even when I'm one of the last people on, once I'm seated there's still 7-10 minutes of dinking around before everybody's where they ought to be. (That could be its own pit thread; "What the Fuck is Taking You So Long?") Try this, airlines; put the magazines and the pillows in the terminal. We're all sitting out there with our thumbs up our asses, anyway. Tell people to get what they're going to need so when you open the doors they can walk in, find their seat, and sit their ass down.

[Caprese]

I experienced "zone" boading on Delta last summer. I think we left on time, I dunno.
I am never with the elites in first or business, so am used to waiting.
No matter what, there are always those people clogging the aisles as they struggle with their carry-on luggage. I only do carry-on, so all I care about is that I am able to stash my bag some place (can put it under the seat in front of me if necessary, but that can be a bummer on a transatlantic flight.)

[Airman Doors, USAF]

It's utter lunacy the way they board planes anymore. They load them front to back so that you have to trip over and bump into the people that have preceded you, rather than loading from the back one row at a time.

Of course, there is a benefit. The 1st Class people get to be severely uncomfortable for the whole process because they're ducking people and their bags for virtually the entire boarding process. That almost makes up for the torturous coach seating that us mere peons have to endure.

[Billdo]

I think one of the reasons that they do "zone" boarding is to allow high-level frequent flyers board early and with minimum fuss. If the computers that print the boarding passes can figure out who the priority boarders are, and print out Class 1 or Class 37 on the boarding pass, then the gate agents don't have to fight with the people who think a mauve medallion pass lets them board early, when it is only the puce and chartruse medallions who can.

If you fly so much Ono, I'm surprised you don't have one of the good frequent flyer plan levels that let you get on ahead of the cattle (unless you're split over a lot of airlines). You may want to talk to your airlines to see if you can get your plan upgrated, even if you are a little under the qualifying level.

[TokyoBayer]

You guys haven't figured out how to board first and you still want to belong to the SDMB? :dubious:

[Cemetery Savior]

Ono:

I fly quite a bit, too (I almost always fly United...I'm out of O'Hare), and as of two days ago, United has been doing the "rear of the plane first" -style boarding.

I too get the privilege (through freq flyer miles) of flying 1st Class every once in a while (not as often as you do, Road Warrior!), and I have a most serene feeling as I watch the shlubs trek back to 27F. I order another beer and listen to the struggle for overhead room.

Before I get flamed, please remember that I'm one of those shlubs at least 80% of the time.

Ono...can I piggyback on your rant and gripe about people who bring 2 pieces of luggage on the plane? The attendants don'tmake them check it, and the space available to everyone decreases hugely (especially on those regional jets).

-Cem

[Waverly]

I am not aware of single airline that makes a specific policy of boarding front to back. I have flown them all, and fly frequently. Most civilized airlines board by zones, with those passengers in the most out of the way seats boarding in Zone 2. Here is what may be confusing you. Zone 1 will include high level frequent flyers who have often chosen seats near the front or at a bulkhead or exit row. However, this does not mean the plane is boarding front to back. The other exception is morbidly idiotic carriers like Southwest, who board via a strange mode of general admission. Here again, though, they aren’t specifically boarding the front to back.

If you want me to believe someone has an across the board front to back policy, give me some examples.

[mhendo]

No matter what, there are always those people clogging the aisles as they struggle with their carry-on luggage. I think you mean "carry-on" luggage. Note the quotations marks.

Every time i've flown over the past four or five years, the main thing that has slowed the boarding procedure is the selfish assholes who insist on dragging what should be checked baggage onto the plane. In some cases, the wheelie bags are too wide to fit down the fucking aisle. Then these people whine and complain when they can't find an overhead bin, failing to understand that the reason the bins are already full is that about half the other passengers are also selfish assholes who insist on dragging their massive bags into the cabin.

Here's some advice, morons: if you're bag won't fit down the aisle, or if it won't go into the overhead bins wheels first, then check the fucking thing!

And airlines employees: if you started enforcing your stated carry-on limits, this wouldn't be a problem.

[BubbaDog]

IANA-Airline Employee but I have a great theory on this.

I sat in a lot of rear cabin seats in my time. I noticed an interesting situation that always seem to occur when airlines boarded Back-to-front.

The people sitting in the back would put their overhead bags in the bins located in the front of the plane. I guess they would do this so that they could just pull their bag out on their way out instead of trying to do it with a group of people next to them and directly behind them.

Of course later the people boarding and sitting in the front of the plane then discovered that there was no available overhead storage when they got on. They would stand there for a while and then start looking for a place to put their overhead luggage toward the back. When they found a place in the back they would stow their luggage and then try to turn around and go forward back to their seat. Immediatly they would run into the next person wandereing backward looking for bin space.

This little skinny square dance would continue until all of the forward passengers made a trip to the rear to stow their gear.

Somebody must have timed this method and then suggested the front to back loading scenario.

[Icarus]

The people sitting in the back would put their overhead bags in the bins located in the front of the plane. I guess they would do this so that they could just pull their bag out on their way out...

I've seen this too, and I really wish there was more control from the flight crew to make sure this doesn't happen. However, whenever I've seen a flight attendant suggest in the kindest and friendliest possible way that perhaps a passenger's bag could be placed differently, I start hearing people openly grumble about "baggage Nazis". So, I guess you can't win.

[Praetor]

The people sitting in the back would put their overhead bags in the bins located in the front of the plane. I guess they would do this so that they could just pull their bag out on their way out instead of trying to do it with a group of people next to them and directly behind them.
Anyone who does this is a prick. You're going to spend the same amount of time getting your bag whether it's directly over your seat or up 20 rows. If you pull it from above your seat, anyone ahead of you can make their way up the aisle unimpeded. However, if you walk forward 20 rows, then try to remove your bag, you're preventing anyone else from getting past you. Furthermore, if your bag is directly over you, you can get your bag down during the time that you're waiting for the people ahead of you to move up the aisle and thus cause no delay at all.

[chappachula]

here's the science (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/business/14boarding.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ei=5087%0A&em&en=f0d4e976bfeedadb&ex=1163653200) behind it all.

There is the outside-in technique, nicknamed Wilma, for window first, then middle and then aisle, a technique favored by Delta and United.........

US Airways can lay claim to one of the most complex procedures.... a pattern as intricate as a microchip’s circuitry: rear window and middle first, front window and middle next, followed by rear aisle, then front aisle. The airline calls it the reverse pyramid system.
the system has cut US Airways’ turnaround time by two to five minutes.

AirTran Airways uses six different sections in a rotating zone system .. begins the seating sequence with the back five rows called first, the front five behind business class second, the next back five rows third — continuing until the rows meet in the middle..... the zones tend not to interfere with one another

[qubed]

There's actually a lot of science behind airplane boarding these days, and airlines are doing a lot of simulations and trying out new things. There was an article about it somewhat recently in some magazine (yeah, I know that's not very useful at all).

Despite what Waverly said, Southwest's approach to boarding is one of the best (with regards to time involved). People want a good seat, so they get there early, try to board quickly, and find a seat quickly.

[qubed]

After perusing through the link chappachula gave, it shows that Southwest's approach saves them almost a billion dollars a year (just in terms of needing 18 more airplanes to accommodate their existing schedule). Not small change.

[mhendo]

here's the science (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/business/14boarding.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ei=5087%0A&em&en=f0d4e976bfeedadb&ex=1163653200) behind it all.Interesting article. It seems that the Flight Attendants' rep agrees with me about one of the real causes of slow boarding:“To simplify and improve boarding, the only way is to limit the amount of carry-on baggage,” said Patricia A. Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants. “As long as people hold up the boarding process — stowing as much as they can get away with — it’s going to be slow boarding and even slower deplaning.”

[Onomatopoeia]

I think one of the reasons that they do "zone" boarding is to allow high-level frequent flyers board early and with minimum fuss. If the computers that print the boarding passes can figure out who the priority boarders are, and print out Class 1 or Class 37 on the boarding pass, then the gate agents don't have to fight with the people who think a mauve medallion pass lets them board early, when it is only the puce and chartruse medallions who can.

If you fly so much Ono, I'm surprised you don't have one of the good frequent flyer plan levels that let you get on ahead of the cattle (unless you're split over a lot of airlines). You may want to talk to your airlines to see if you can get your plan upgrated, even if you are a little under the qualifying level.Billdo, I think you, Caprese, and Robot Arm have answered my question. It must be the Elite and Advantage members who just happen to have the preferred seats behind first class boarding before the coach chattle. Still sucks though.

I fly, on average, about once a month, Billdo. I don't know where that places me, but I do get miles. I'll check into your suggestion. Thanks.

[Acsenray]

I'd say I may fly first class on three out of every ten trips. For the rest I hoof it in coach, um, I mean business class (snort).

I don't get this bit. I've never seen "business class" used to mean coach or tourist class. Whenever I've seen a "business class" it's those extra wide seats up front.

[D_Odds]

I don't get this bit. I've never seen "business class" used to mean coach or tourist class. Whenever I've seen a "business class" it's those extra wide seats up front.
Depending on the plane configuration and size, I've seen First Class and Coach, Business Class and Coach, and First Class, Business Class and Coach. I've also seen all First Class with Coach-sized seats (Concorde).

[FlyingDragonFan]

The people sitting in the back would put their overhead bags in the bins located in the front of the plane. I guess they would do this so that they could just pull their bag out on their way out instead of trying to do it with a group of people next to them and directly behind them.
I'm not a frequent flyer, but I know I've been on a couple of flights where as people were boarding, the flight attendants were on the intercom, specifically instructing people to put their bags in the first available overhead space they found, and then continuing on to their seat. This was probably Southwest, but I don't remember if it was a back-to-front or front-to-back seating pattern. I'm going to guess back-to-front.

[Onomatopoeia]

I don't get this bit. I've never seen "business class" used to mean coach or tourist class. Whenever I've seen a "business class" it's those extra wide seats up front.Trust me. Business class is not first class, at least not on the flights I take, and depending on the plane size and flight distance everything behind first class can be considered business class. More than half the shlubs on any flight I take are headed to some meeting, conference, training, or industry convention. I just came back from the 2006 AHA Scientific Sessions in Chicago and both flights, out and back, were filled with medical and scientific professionals. A few colleagues of mine will only fly business class if they can't get first class, and where were these folks on my flight back to Philly? That's right, within groping distance of my seat in 27F. So, were we in coach or business class? :) Bottom line for me is if I'm in back of the red or blue curtain, and am forbidden from using the bathoom in the front of the plane, I'm in coach.

[FatBaldGuy]

I've never heard "business class" and "coach" used as synonyms. Most domestic flights in the US have only first class and coach. On longer flights I have seen some planes configured with first class/business class/coach seating, where business class is definitely a cut above coach, but not quite first class.

But anyone who flies in coach and says that he is in "business class" seating is deluding himself.

[D_Odds]

Ono, on every major airline that I've been on, that's coach.

[Onomatopoeia]

I've never heard "business class" and "coach" used as synonyms. Most domestic flights in the US have only first class and coach. On longer flights I have seen some planes configured with first class/business class/coach seating, where business class is definitely a cut above coach, but not quite first class.

But anyone who flies in coach and says that he is in "business class" seating is deluding himself.Anyone who spends an extra four to eight years in school and another year PG as an intern working 14-hour a day shifts, who flies in coach deserves a little delusion.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

And airlines employees: if you started enforcing your stated carry-on limits, this wouldn't be a problem.If they started actually delivering checked baggage in a reliable manner, people wouldn't feel the need to try to carry everything on. It's pretty pathetic that people who travel regularly will FedEx their necessary baggage to their new destination rather than rely on the airline to actually bring the bags with them.

[Beadalin]

The last time I flew (from Seattle to Minneapolis), it was on NorthWorst and this is how they boarded:

1) First class
2) Elderly and those with small children (anyone needing assistance)
3) Everyone else

Seriously. There was no order whatsoever to the boarding of coach, and this was a plane with 38 rows of 6 seats each. I boggled when the announcement was made. Hearing it, my husband and I ambled to the nearby pub and ordered a whiskey each, savored each sip and STILL had time to "enjoy" the painfully slow shuffle down the loading corridor and onto plane itself.

No, we didn't leave on time.

[Acsenray]

Anyone who spends an extra four to eight years in school and another year PG as an intern working 14-hour a day shifts, who flies in coach deserves a little delusion.

So what are you saying? That people who ride in coach sometimes refer to it as business class? Because, as others have posted, I've never seen an airline use "business class" when it means "coach."

[Onomatopoeia]

So what are you saying? That people who ride in coach sometimes refer to it as business class? Because, as others have posted, I've never seen an airline use "business class" when it means "coach."I don't know, acsenray. Hoch mir nicht dann cheinic, okay? As I said, for me everything behind the curtain is coach. This wasn't the point of my fevered, yet pleasurably cathartic, rant last night anyway.

[Waverly]

Despite what Waverly said, Southwest's approach to boarding is one of the best (with regards to time involved). People want a good seat, so they get there early, try to board quickly, and find a seat quickly.
The best for Southwest, maybe. It is a nightmare for a business traveler. Do they still sing Happy Trails? Gawd, I hate those fuckers.

[DragonAsh]

1) I fly an awful lot. I was also a flight attendant for two major US carriers in a previous lifetime. Seating would go a lot smoother if the gate agents handling the boarding process would actually restrict people from trying to get on the plane out of order. Gate agents and flight attendants can be fairly strict on carry-on items (baggage nazis, as it were), but are usually surprisingly lenient about people boarding out of turn. (Of course, I'm sure there are cases like the airport scene in Meet the Parents).

2) People sitting in the back who put their luggage at the front of the plane should be shot on sight. That's not a realistic option, if only because guns aren't normally allowed on planes. However, did you know that any luggage that can't be accounted for (i.e., no one claims it) is taken off the flight? So the next time you see self-important fucktard trying to pull that stunt, wait until the person is well in the back, then call the F.A. and say that no one is claiming the luggage. If you're unlucky, the F.A. will use the intercom to get the lame-ass to come up and claim the item. If you're really unlucky the F.A. will let Mr. Lame-O leave the luggage where it is, if you're a little luckier he'll have to bring it all the way back. If you're even luckier, by now there's no room in the overheads and the bag will have to be either gate-checked or put in with the normal luggage. But if you're REALLY lucky, the F.A. (most of whom also really hate retards who do this) will simply ask in a real quiet voice in the general vicinity who the luggage belongs to, and when no one claims it, said piece of luggage will be taken off the plane entirely as a security threat. You will enjoy the flight, the whole time imagining Mr. Monkey Spunk's face when he arrives in Des Moines, only to realize he's sans luggage.

c) Given the significant difference in price and minimal difference in service, business class is a pretty decent deal; first class is a major rip-off. Even though only a few people in business, and very few people in first, are actually paying customers. The biggest assholes were invariable people who almost never flew in business class, getting upgraded to business or first and trying so hard to pretend that they flew up front all the time. Sorry-ass pricks; the flight attendants know who the paying customers are and who the upgrades are.

d) Gate checking is a relatively well-kept secret among frequent travelers. People hate checking their luggage less because they worry about the airlines losing their luggage (it happens, but still is fairly rare), they hate having to wait 30 minutes in baggage claim for their things. Don't like hauling your stuff around the plane? Ask the nice gate agent for a gate check tag when you're boarding. Most gate agents will do all they can to reduce carry-on items (it does speed up the boarding). They put a ticket on your bag, you leave it at the end of the ramp just before you get on the plane, along with the strollers and baby cars. Maintenance guys come up and bring the stuff down directly; the luggage is brought back up to the same spot at your destination. You might wait a bit, but usually no more than 5 minutes or so, and it's much better than waiting at baggage claim. Plus, since it's being taken down directly to your plane, there's zero chance of your luggage getting on the plane to Bora Bora.

[Tastes of Chocolate]

The one good thing that came of the recent restrictions on liquids and gels on airplanes was the reduction of carry-on luggage. I flew a couple of times shortly after the ban was put in place, and loading/unloading seemed much faster, as well as much less luggage in the overhead bins.

[mhendo]

If they started actually delivering checked baggage in a reliable manner, people wouldn't feel the need to try to carry everything on. It's pretty pathetic that people who travel regularly will FedEx their necessary baggage to their new destination rather than rely on the airline to actually bring the bags with them.I remain unconvinced that this is a reasonable excuse. "Well, they might lose my bags, so i don't give a shit how much i inconvenience other people."

Firstly, while i know that there are times when baggage is delayed or even lost, and that it can be very inconvenent, i don't think it's frequent enough that people should be frantic about it every time they fly. According to this article (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/03/airlines_luggage.html), about 1% of checked baggage is mishandled. Of that 1%, the vast majority is reunited with its owner, and "the average delayed baggage file is open for 1.3 days or 31.2 hours from the time the bag is reported missing to when it is found and restored to its owner."

So, basically, if you are unlucky enough to be among the one in a hundred people who have your bag misplaced, chances are very very slim that it will be lost altogether, and very very good that it will get to you in about a day (often much faster). I understand carrying some essentials on the plane to see you through for a day, but the size of some people's carry-on suggests that they're travelling for a month.

I certainly don't fly as frequently as business travelers, but i've flown fairly frequently over the past six years, that i've lived in the US, usually on United but sometimes on other carriers. In all my flights with United, my baggage has been delayed once, for two hours, and that was because i changed flights at the last minute after being offered an upgrade to business class. Hardly United's fault. The only other time i've had baggage delayed was by American, on a nightmare flight from Manchester (UK) to Baltimore via Philadelphia (delayed 7 hours in Philly), and the bag arrived at my house by courier about 14 hours after the flight landed.

Given the small chance of something going wrong, i prefer to make my own flight experience more pleasurable (no lugging large bags around the terminal, or onto the plane) and make things easier for others (not cluttering up the overhead bins or delaying boarding) by taking a small amount of carry-on.

If your airline keep losing your bags, i suggest switching airlines.

[Duckster]

The people sitting in the back would put their overhead bags in the bins located in the front of the plane. I guess they would do this so that they could just pull their bag out on their way out instead of trying to do it with a group of people next to them and directly behind them.
Don't know if I read this here or some other web site, but here goes ...

A little old lady arriving late for her first class seat was unable to stow her carry-on because some tall, healthy, male fuckwit sitting back in the peanut galley of the plane stowed it up front and then walked to the back of the plane to his seat.

Not missing a beat the little old lady pulled down the fuckwit's carry-on and replaced it with her own. She then called for a flight attendant and said, ...

"Ma'am it seems this carry-on just won't fit in here. Would you be so kind as to put it in checked baggage for me please?"

:D

[Voyager]

2) People sitting in the back who put their luggage at the front of the plane should be shot on sight. That's not a realistic option, if only because guns aren't normally allowed on planes. However, did you know that any luggage that can't be accounted for (i.e., no one claims it) is taken off the flight? So the next time you see self-important fucktard trying to pull that stunt, wait until the person is well in the back, then call the F.A. and say that no one is claiming the luggage. If you're unlucky, the F.A. will use the intercom to get the lame-ass to come up and claim the item. If you're really unlucky the F.A. will let Mr. Lame-O leave the luggage where it is, if you're a little luckier he'll have to bring it all the way back. If you're even luckier, by now there's no room in the overheads and the bag will have to be either gate-checked or put in with the normal luggage. But if you're REALLY lucky, the F.A. (most of whom also really hate retards who do this) will simply ask in a real quiet voice in the general vicinity who the luggage belongs to, and when no one claims it, said piece of luggage will be taken off the plane entirely as a security threat. You will enjoy the flight, the whole time imagining Mr. Monkey Spunk's face when he arrives in Des Moines, only to realize he's sans luggage.

I like the way you think. :D I've not seen many people do this, actually. I must admit it was a pleasure to fly right after the new restrictions, when there were fewer carry-ons. I never lost luggage, but my daughter did, having the misfortune of flying USAir to Philadelphia, the black hole of luggage, so bad it was on the front page of the Times the other day.


d) Gate checking is a relatively well-kept secret among frequent travelers. People hate checking their luggage less because they worry about the airlines losing their luggage (it happens, but still is fairly rare), they hate having to wait 30 minutes in baggage claim for their things. Don't like hauling your stuff around the plane? Ask the nice gate agent for a gate check tag when you're boarding. Most gate agents will do all they can to reduce carry-on items (it does speed up the boarding). They put a ticket on your bag, you leave it at the end of the ramp just before you get on the plane, along with the strollers and baby cars. Maintenance guys come up and bring the stuff down directly; the luggage is brought back up to the same spot at your destination. You might wait a bit, but usually no more than 5 minutes or so, and it's much better than waiting at baggage claim. Plus, since it's being taken down directly to your plane, there's zero chance of your luggage getting on the plane to Bora Bora.
One downside. On a flight from Austin to Philadelphia, with a stop in Houston, some of my colleagues nicely gave their carryons to be gate checked, due to crowded overheads. Due to storms in Houston, we got there hours late with a detour to New Orleans, and wound up there for the night. None of the luggage on the plane got taken off, and those people who gate checked their luggage wound up going to a hotel, late, with nothing. This was well pre 9/11, and on the old, bad, Continental. I have a small, reasonable, carryon, and I don't let it out of my sight, thank you very much.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

A little old lady arriving late for her first class seat was unable to stow her carry-on because some tall, healthy, male fuckwit sitting back in the peanut galley of the plane stowed it up front and then walked to the back of the plane to his seat.

Not missing a beat the little old lady pulled down the fuckwit's carry-on and replaced it with her own. She then called for a flight attendant and said, ...

"Ma'am it seems this carry-on just won't fit in here. Would you be so kind as to put it in checked baggage for me please?"This is the best thing I've read in a long time. I can't wait to try this. Thanks!

[Waverly]

[1 thru d]OK, so you mixed your numbers and letters a bit, but you know your shit. I’m with you all the way. Don’t many airlines close the first few bins, especially where there is no under seat storage, and keep them available for passengers in those rows? I know United, Singapore Air, and others do this.

[DragonAsh]

OK, so you mixed your numbers and letters a bit, but you know your shit. I’m with you all the way. Don’t many airlines close the first few bins, especially where there is no under seat storage, and keep them available for passengers in those rows? I know United, Singapore Air, and others do this.Numbers, letters, who cares - it's not like I write for a living...oh, wait :eek:

I've seen some airlines do this. It sometimes causes some unintended problems - there is some psychological pressure at work that generally keeps people from opening bins that have been closed, unless they know their things are already in there. Weird, I know, but true - I'm surprised no study has been done on this. Anyway, often people will keep moving back into the plane trying to find an open bin with room. Then they have to fight back through the line of people coming on the plane, like salmon swimming up stream, to get back to their seats. The same thing kind of happens in reverse when they arrive, unless they sit and wait for everyone to de-plane before collecting their things.

Boarding would be considerably less stressful if a) retrieving luggage wasn't such a hassle (so people checked more luggage in), b) gate agents actually enforced the 'wait until your row is called' rule, and c) people were prevented from trying to bring on 'carry-ons' the size of small pianos.

[edwino]

Anyone who spends an extra four to eight years in school and another year PG as an intern working 14-hour a day shifts, who flies in coach deserves a little delusion.
I wanna know where you worked 14 hour days as an intern, you lucky, lucky bastard.

/edwino, who spent an extra 9 years in school and now is working 14 hour shifts between his 30 hour shifts every 4 days.

[RickJay]

Trust me. Business class is not first class, at least not on the flights I take, and depending on the plane size and flight distance everything behind first class can be considered business class.
I'm curious as to where you fly, or in what context you're hearing the term "business class." On every United, American, Delta, Air Canada, Northwest, and US Airways flight I have ever been on, there were exactly two kinds of seats, and "business class" were the big ones up front with the free booze. I've never heard of "business class" as a term being applied to a coach seat.

As to the general issue, being a weekly flier, I have my Five Rules For Being a Courteous Passenger:

1. If it is larger than a briefcase or a small athletic/tote bag, it needs to be checked.
2. Follow the boarding instructions and board when your row or zone is called. Until it is called get your ass out of the way.
3. Be prepared to get into your seat when you get to it, not after 15 minutes of fumbling around with your shit while you make everyone wait. If it takes you longer than thirty seconds to get into your seat you're doing something wrong.
4. If you have something that needs to go in the overhead bin put it as close to your seat as possible.
5. Sit the fuck down!

[mhendo]

As to the general issue, being a weekly flier...Just out of interest, as someone who flies so regularly, how often have you had your checked bags delayed or lost?

[slaphead]

Anyway, before even entering the plane, in fact, while standing so far back in the accursed line that I coudln't even see the plane
Huh? Why were you standing in the queue? Keep your ass sat down until the last person has departed down the airway, then present your boarding card.
Everybody is leaving on the same flight, so provided you don't have to worry too much about finding stowage space for your luggage, always aim to be the last guy on the plane.

And the only way I can make sense of your curtain comment is to assume that either you meant to say "Everything behind the first curtain is coach", or you are trying to cut through some BA-style class obfuscation (they use World Traveller = economy).

RickJay - No idea about US flights, but here in Europe it's not unusual to encounter planes with multiple classes of economy as well as business even on short flights.
If you're right at the front (business class) you get a fully flexible ticket, a bigger seat and a nice meal. If you're right at the (economy) back you get a use-or-lose ticket, a tiny seat, and you have to pay for any drinks or food you may want. In between (Flex Economy, Premium economy,we're-making-this-shit-up economy) you get variations.
I've also been on plenty of flights where there are the same seats throughout, and the only difference is the meal and the ticket flexibility - and the price, of course.

And I like your boarding rules, and I'd add
6 - Keep your body parts, odour and sounds inside the space you paid for.

[Johnny L.A.]

What I want to know is why people don't know how to board an airplane. This is what I do (if I have a rear seat and am one of the first to board -- BTW, I nearly always get a window seat): I go don the aisle to my row, put my bag (if I have one) in the overhead compartment, get in my seat, and buckle my belt. It seems that when people are ahead of me they don't know how to find their aisles (hint: they're in ascending numerical order) or their seats (hint: they're in alphabetical order), stow their bag (hint: it's like, you know, putting your bag on a shelf -- it ain't quantum physics), or get the hell out of the aisle (hint: when you've found your seat, you're supposed to sit in it -- you know, like a chair).

Part of the problem is the boarding procedure. First Class should board last, since it's in the front of the aircraft and first class passengers are as clueless as to how to sit in a chair as the lumpen. Recently Alaska Airlines have allowed everyone in coach to board at the same time, regardless of his seat assignment. Bad move, since people don't know how to sit down in a chair. On my last flight they did go back to boarding rear passengers first (after First Class). But their row ranges are too broad.

But I think the larger problem is that people just don't know how to find their seats and get the hell out of the way.

[Nava]

Having had my luggage lost much more frequently than 1% (I definitely have not flied 500 times), once for a week (my bags went to Greece without me, how dare they!) and once for 34 days (and the bags were finally found by a company which was not the one I'd flied with), and having once opened my baggage to find that someone had poured my bottle of shampoo inside my work computer's bag (my back had been killing me so I'd put it in the suitcase) I would absolutely LOVE to be able to change companies based on stuff like, oh, quality of service.

Pity most of my flying is booked by whatever company I happen to be working for at the time.

[Johnny L.A.]

Just out of interest, as someone who flies so regularly, how often have you had your checked bags delayed or lost?
Most of my commercial flying is between SoCal and Bellingham, WA. To fly to B'ham you need to change planes in Seattle. The BLI flight is in a Bombardier Q200 (formerly DeHavilland Dash-8). There's always a chance there won't be room for all of the checked baggage. More frequently there will not be time to transfer checked baggage. I winder if my bag will be on the aircraft with me any time the time between flights is under an hour. On my last flight (last month) the Q200 was late and didn't arrive at the gate in Seattle until my southbound flight was already boarding. Needless to say, my bag (which is normally a carry-on, only I had some shampoo and toothpaste in it) didn't make the flight.

So far my bag has been delayed three times; twice northbound, and once southbound. Another time it would have been delayed, only I was carrying it with me.

[DragonAsh]

In 20 years of extensive flying, I've had my bags lost exactly once: the gf and I were on a trip to Mexico from Mexico; for whatever reason the bags didn't make the connection in Houston. Thankfully the gf is a very easy-going sort; I've seem some couples almost divorce over shit like that - like it's the guys fault the airlines didn't take better care of the luggage :rolleyes:

We got $50 each to buy any stuff we needed (not in cash; we had to submit receipts for reimbursements, which took about 4 weeks), and the luggage was delivered to our hotel the next afternoon.

Granted, I'm not a typical passenger: I prefer to get on the plane at the last possible moment - which means, generally, getting to the airport at the last possible moment. Which means I assume any luggage I try to check wouldn't get on the plane anyway, and it certainly wouldn't be the airlines' fault. If I know I have to check luggage, I get to the airport early. Otherwise I either I a) only bring a small carry-on, or b) gate-check. I'm telling you, gate check is teh win.

[FatBaldGuy]

Most of my commercial flying is between SoCal and Bellingham, WA. To fly to B'ham you need to change planes in Seattle. The BLI flight is in a Bombardier Q200 (formerly DeHavilland Dash-8). There's always a chance there won't be room for all of the checked baggage. More frequently there will not be time to transfer checked baggage. I winder if my bag will be on the aircraft with me any time the time between flights is under an hour. On my last flight (last month) the Q200 was late and didn't arrive at the gate in Seattle until my southbound flight was already boarding. Needless to say, my bag (which is normally a carry-on, only I had some shampoo and toothpaste in it) didn't make the flight.

So far my bag has been delayed three times; twice northbound, and once southbound. Another time it would have been delayed, only I was carrying it with me.Johnny, wouldn't it make more sense to drive between Seattle and Bellingham? It's only about a 90 minute drive, and the hassle of changing planes and dealing with baggage hassles for a 1 hour flight doesn't seem worth it to me.

My daughter lives in Bellingham, and whenever she or her husband fly they always drive to Seattle, not only for the hassle, but the expense of the extra flight.

[RickJay]

Just out of interest, as someone who flies so regularly, how often have you had your checked bags delayed or lost?
In three years, over about 200 flights, exactly once. And that was when I switched to an earlier flight just 40 minutes before it took off.

They delivered it to my hotel about three hours after I got there.

Happened again last night (I was actually in the airport when I wrote my post.) It took 45 minutes to board a medium-sized airplane because of all the retards dragging huge suitcases onto the plane, and of course there wasn't enough room for it all. I'm starting to wonder if some people actually are unaware that the airline will take your bags for you for free.

Things would be different on RickAir.

[bump]

Anyone who does this is a prick. You're going to spend the same amount of time getting your bag whether it's directly over your seat or up 20 rows.

You obviously haven't flown Southwest. It seems to me that everyone seems to put their bags right by themselves, so as the plane unloads, the people all stand there and screw with their bags, eventually getting them down & oriented and start their way up the aisle.

If you put your bags ahead of where you are, you can hop up and go a little farther down, and streamline the process- it really does speed it up for yourself, and also for the people behind you.

I don't have any problems with people bringing bags that fit in the little box-thing at the check-in counter (i.e. the "stated restrictions"). What chaps my ass are these mongoloid mouthbreathers who insist on bringing HUGE luggage (as in, duffle bags large enough to fit a body into), and then taking up a huge amount of room with it.

[RickJay]

If you put your bags ahead of where you are, you can hop up and go a little farther down, and streamline the process- it really does speed it up for yourself, and also for the people behind you.
It sure does suck for the people in the first five rows, though. Where are their bags supposed to go now? Your shit's in their way, and they're not allowed to store their bags in the cockpit. And if people are storing bags anywhere other than where they're sitting you're going to have some overhead bins overpacked, and then anyone getting into that row towards the end of boarding will not have a place to put their bag, so they'll have to troop down to the end, and everything's help up. By saving five seconds when you get off the plane you may have just help everyone up by a few minutes getting on.

The easy and efficient way is very simple:

1. As you've said, do not bring suitcases aboard the plane. Bring only briefcases, purses, and geniune carry on bags, like small knapsacks. This is the overwhelming problem, by far; on a full flight, the nitwits bringing huge suitcases, rollies and duffel bags can delay a flight by ten or twenty minutes, easily, and sometimes worse.

2. Store it over your head or under the seat in front of you.

If you are not retarded it takes 10 seconds, 15 at the absolute maximum, to stand up and grab your bags. Anyone who can't accomplish that in ten seconds is mentally disabled (unless it's someone who is, say, very short, or old, or has small children with them, and they obviously need some consideration - but they usually park it until everyone's off anyway, so it rarely matters) and storing their bag further ahead will not help them, and in fact will slow things down because they'll probably forget where they put it.

You are obviously not retarded, so stowing your shit up front doesn't really help, because you're going to grab your shit and get moving quickly anyway, even if it's right where you are.

Now, mind you, it's up to the airlines to fix this, because some people are inconsiderate dicks who just aren't aware that their actions affect other people, and some people are just slow on the uptake. Without enforcing carry-on dimension limits and slapping people upside the head, nothing wil lget better.

This past week I was on a United flight from Denver to San Fran. It was a 777, and it was half full. For those of you who've never been on a 777, it's an enormous airplane, Nine seats/two aisles per row, lots of head room and legroom. The overhead bins are sufficient for a full flight and we were 50% full at best. And yet some people still could not sort their fucking luggage out.

One guy in particular - it was just amazing. He was in the first rwo of economy class. He and his wife brough aboard two huge suitcases, purses and shopping bags of varying descriptions, and what appeared to be some sort of plant. The guy honestly took thgirty minutes of bumping and pushing his way back and forth through two luggage bins and pushing people out of his way to get his shit stowed away and he was still fiddling with it during the flight, and getting off the plane was all the same nonsense in reverse. Oh, and he kept standing up in front of the TV screen to conduct loud conversations with his wife throughout the flight, finally prompting me to yell at him. (I was polite, but loud.) It was quite obvious that the man simply did not have the slightest clue or concern that other human beings were on the same plane and might want to do things like leave Denver on time, or see the television programming, or not have him push them out of the way.

Since I'm on a roll, I want to add one more thing. Some people bitch and bitch and bitch about children on airplanes; the truth is that some people just plain hate children, and will complain about them incessantly. But in all my travels I've had, and seen, virtually no problems at all with kids on airplanes; they're not .01% as troublesome as the various classes of adult air travel assholes. Sometimes babies will cry, but that's easily drowned out with earphones, and parents usually get them under control within a reasonable period of time. Once, in hundreds of flights, there was an older kid who was crying that I found kind of irritating, but I forgot about him soon enough.

We've never had our baby on an airplane and don't plan to do so anytime soon, but speaking as a veteran air traveller I can say "Children on airplanes" are so far down on my list of concerns and irritations that they barely register.

[Johnny L.A.]

Johnny, wouldn't it make more sense to drive between Seattle and Bellingham? It's only about a 90 minute drive, and the hassle of changing planes and dealing with baggage hassles for a 1 hour flight doesn't seem worth it to me.
I don't feel like renting a car.

[Stan Shmenge]

If they started actually delivering checked baggage in a reliable manner, people wouldn't feel the need to try to carry everything on. It's pretty pathetic that people who travel regularly will FedEx their necessary baggage to their new destination rather than rely on the airline to actually bring the bags with them.This is the key. I have had my luggage delayed twice. Once I was late at the gate. The thing is, while it is rare, when it happens you have a disaster on your hands. Plus, I suspect that a lot of people are traveling with valuables that they shouldn't really be bringing along, creating the worry of theft. You folks are aware that gang tags are a common sight in the cago holds?

In my checked luggage (a large frame pack) are my cheap clothes from Wal-Mart. Nothing to steal but the pack itself, really. I carry on my laptop (goes under seat) and a small knapsack with my camera, a change of clothes, and my toiletries. I don't know what I will do about tolietries with the new restrictions. :(

I like to get to the airport early. I scope out a bar with a view of the gate and have a few beers while everybody hurries up and waits. When the last passenger in the line is disappearing down the jetway, I'll quaff my last brew and board. I am putting my laptop under the seat, so no problem there, and I have never had a problem finding a place to stow my small pack. I don't care where it is because I am the last to get off as well. I have never arrived at the baggage claim before my bag came down the chute, so again, all you guys are "hurry up and waiting" while I am chilling with my magazine.

I have been traveling a lot since childhood, and it is hard enough without creating stress that has absolutely no purpose. :cool:

[JThunder]

But I think the larger problem is that people just don't know how to find their seats and get the hell out of the way.Preach it, bro!

[Geobabe]

You folks are aware that gang tags are a common sight in the cago holds? No, actually. I've heard plenty about theft being common, but never anything about gang activity among baggage handlers. Where did you hear this?

[Stan Shmenge]

No, actually. I've heard plenty about theft being common, but never anything about gang activity among baggage handlers. Where did you hear this?I almost fell off my chair when I read the first page of Aviation Daily's Feb. 27th issue. The last item on the page was about Alaska Airlines working with employees and law enforcement on the problem of . . . gang graffiti in cargo holds. "Graffiti in aircraft cargo holds isn't new. It's been around for years and is an industry-wide problem," the airline was reported as telling its staff. Let's see if I've got this straight. TSA spends $2.5 billion per year to keep sharp objects out of passenger cabins, but people with gang affiliations are inside cargo holds putting graffiti on the walls? And this is a known, industry-wide problem?

From here. (http://www.reason.org/aviationsecurity18.shtml)

[flickster]

The best for Southwest, maybe. It is a nightmare for a business traveler.
I don't understand this statement. I'm a business traveler who utilizes Southwest frequently. As long as you take care to print out your boarding pass in advance (within 24 hours of flight time) you almost always get a Group A pass. Even if you have a Group B you can still usually get your choice of seating. Group C - chances are you'll be sitting in a center seat. Anyway, it's the same for everyone. Just depends upon when you print your boarding pass.

Group C Passengers are advised while boarding to take advantage of any open overhead space they find while on their way through the plane (Seats normally fill up front to back)

For those that aren't aware, Southwest doesn't assign seating. Any open seat is yours for the taking.

[susan]

I've been on 15 flights in the last month, on 6 different carriers. None boarded front to back, though some of the mid-sized intra-Asia flights boarded everyone at once.

[Waverly]

I don't understand this statement. I'm a business traveler who utilizes Southwest frequently.I’m going to assume you simply travel from point A to point B. If you travel from A to B to C to D on a tight schedule, you will begin to get the picture. Try to change a flight to accommodate a change in plans, and it becomes a little clearer. If that weren’t enough, Southwest used to have a policy of selecting passengers for special screening: If they wore a steel turban with wires trailing out of it. Nope, that isn’t it. If they asked why the plane was equipped for landings. Nope that isn’t it. Oh, I remember. If they purchased a one way ticket. That’s it. Rather than screen threats, Southwest saw this as an opportunity to punish people who might not be flying them on the return leg.

Finally, I once had some idiot pilot explain, mistakenly I hope, that the delay was due to malfunctioning thrust reversers, but that was OK because we didn’t need them for this flight.

[slaphead]

I’m going to assume you simply travel from point A to point B. If you travel from A to B to C to D on a tight schedule, you will begin to get the picture.
....

Finally, I once had some idiot pilot explain, mistakenly I hope, that the delay was due to malfunctioning thrust reversers, but that was OK because we didn’t need them for this flight.
Well, I might be misunderstanding things a bit, but I thought the low-cost model was pretty much based on stripping out all the things like connections and so on that make life easier for business travellers but add cost. This is like complaining that Greyhound buses are much less convenient than a limo service.

Thrust reversers are used to shorten the landing run. They might be unnecessary if flying into somewhere with a long strip, or with a light load, but regulations require that at least one be operational. Plus they would still need checking out to make sure they weren't going to do something dangerous (like activating in flight, killing everyone on board (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19910526-0)), and to fill in the necessary paperwork. They probably leave details like this out of announcements in case it makes people nervous.

[Geobabe]

I almost fell off my chair when I read the first page of Aviation Daily's Feb. 27th issue. The last item on the page was about Alaska Airlines working with employees and law enforcement on the problem of . . . gang graffiti in cargo holds. "Graffiti in aircraft cargo holds isn't new. It's been around for years and is an industry-wide problem," the airline was reported as telling its staff. Let's see if I've got this straight. TSA spends $2.5 billion per year to keep sharp objects out of passenger cabins, but people with gang affiliations are inside cargo holds putting graffiti on the walls? And this is a known, industry-wide problem?

From here. (http://www.reason.org/aviationsecurity18.shtml) :eek: Holy crap! Seems the industry has been doing a really good job keeping this out of the news, as I tried various keyword Google searches and couldn't find any stories on it. It's bad publicity for the airlines, but something the public really ought to know about. Jeez.

My husband recently told me that he'd heard (I can't recall where) that news photographers will put a flare gun in their checked luggage so that they can declare a firearm and their bags will be handled separately, just so their cameras won't get stolen.

[Foxy40]

I like to get to the airport early. I scope out a bar with a view of the gate and have a few beers while everybody hurries up and waits. When the last passenger in the line is disappearing down the jetway, I'll quaff my last brew and board. I am putting my laptop under the seat, so no problem there, and I have never had a problem finding a place to stow my small pack. I don't care where it is because I am the last to get off as well. I have never arrived at the baggage claim before my bag came down the chute, so again, all you guys are "hurry up and waiting" while I am chilling with my magazine.

I have been traveling a lot since childhood, and it is hard enough without creating stress that has absolutely no purpose. :cool:

I agree with this strategy 100% and practice it myself. I fly about once a month. I have no need to get on the airplane any faster than I absolutely must. I will wait until I witness the last passenger and follow him. I carry a purse and a laptop and they both fit very nicely under the seat in front of me so never any worries about overhead space. My boyfriend, on the other hand, flies several times per month on business and with his FFM, is always able to board first and takes full advantage of this privledge. He does it for the overhead space sometimes talking to me on the phone for 20 or so minutes before departure. Why add that time to the "flight"?

[Duckster]

OK, I just flew four segments on NorthWorst Airlines during Turkey Week. Here are my observations:

1) Those with special needs, those who sit in the exit rows and those in first/business class got to board first. Then there was a cattle call boarding for the rest of us. What a mess.

2) I saw a man board with a carryon twice as wide as any carryon that I own. (In fact, it was larger than the single checked bag I had.) He stowed it in the overhead bin. The flight attendants made no attempt to stop him.

3) Several flight attendants upon passenger boarding never once smiled nor said hello. Be that as it may but standing there at the door to the aircraft with a surly look doesn't speak well for their customer service, let alone common courtesy.

4) Near the end of one flight, I watched a first class/business flight attendant empty the contents of a drinks cart into her carryon, in full view of all of us in cattle car class. She made no attempt to hide her actions.

5) I checked in online for my outbound and return flights. I was asked for a government ID when I checked my only bag when I left home. Upon checking my bag for the return flights home, I was never asked for any ID.

Next week I fly Southwest. While I loathed their A, B, C board procedures the last time I flew with them, I'll see how well their system works compared to NorthWorst.

[slaphead]

OK, I just flew four segments on NorthWorst Airlines
Aren't they in bankruptcy and still in the process of renegotiating all their union deals? I think a few of those things might be down to staff morale being in the toilet...

[TokyoBayer]

Japanese can load a full 747 in under 20 minutes and unload in less than 10. In addition to their organization, they have greatly restricted sized of carryon bags (much smaller than in the States). They don't have zones or anything. People all board at once, but there aren't problems. Flying in Japan is so much easier.